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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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D

Drek

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
Let me clarify a bit, I don't think Kaine somehow makes Trump more likely to win than an alternative pick. In fact, I'd probably have to concede that Kaine (or an equivalent like Brown) is probably the best strategic choice (I don't doubt that whoever they pick has been polled to high heaven and back). But this election is not just about winning, it's about repudiating and discrediting an entire movement and style of discourse. A Kaine pick would be evidence that Hillary is worried mostly about winning and shoring up support in the traditional way in an election that is going to be everything but traditional.

Being willing to make a potentially weaker political move in order to show one's commitment to standing for our shared values against Trump would be a courageous move. Nothing about picking a white guy to pick up white voters is courageous or exciting. It doesn't create good media coverage, it does't excite the active grassroots liberals who are the ones you need volunteering to knock on doors and make calls, and it doesn't help encourage and support a deeper and more multicultural bench.
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Tim Kaine, the first executive ticket candidate who speaks fluent Spanish can't excite Hispanics? Clinton's outreach to Moms of the Movement hasn't already pushed the black vote to a near 100% Clinton ticket on the heels of two successive increases in black turnout and polling showing that blacks (carried by black women) is most engaged this cycle?

Clinton already has a massive grassroots system. The grassroots doesn't start and end with young far left progressives. Middle aged union members, social activist groups, etc. are the ones who actually make up the grassroots movement. She doesn't need to engage them, they already are engaged.

Lastly, Clinton isn't trying to prime the pumps for eight years from now. She is a pragmatist and will do everything to stop Trump. We should all be thankful for that. She shouldn't be handicapping herself and giving Trump an inch of additional success.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Virginia and Florida are going to be +10 Hillary after next week. Trump speech is going to destroy support in those two states.

I'd argue Arizona needs a good polling run after the DNC now.

I mean watching the GOP implode on each other over that speech is going to crush them in November. Clinton e-mails are out of the way, so nothing save a huge misstep can hurt her view right now. And i don't see debates going Trump's way...
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Bless Matthews for calling Trump out on his yelling and saying "you can't critique Clinton on this without looking at Trump". It's such a dumb double standard that shouldn't persist.

Brawndo Addict said:
Same reasons we know white men are often hired at the expense of other equally qualified candidates. Having the personal skills to do something and having the 'official credentials' are two different things. If you're never given the opportunity it's hard to satisfy the condition. I think we can all agree politics isn't exactly an equal opportunity employer.

Also not assuming, just having conversation based on one possible outcome.
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I think what's different here is that the resumes of everyone who was on the VP list are public knowledge. So we, the public, can judge them on their merits - I don't feel there is a double standard of where an equally qualified minority candidate got obviously snubbed. Maybe I'm not as well versed on these candidates as I thought? What candidates like Warren/Booker/Perez represent has a lot of value but it feels a bit hard to argue as a total package any one of them clearly overcome Kaine's qualifications.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Anderson Cooper needs to bring back the law and order question. What is even the possible solution Trump could suggest? Martial law is the answer.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Wow, Van Jones said that he's getting messages from Bernie holdouts that this put them over the edge.

Go Anna! They need to kick Lord to the curb, he is just ridiculous.

BTW, Ivanka should be ashamed of herself for the lies she tried to perpetuate tonight.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
Drek said:
Tim Kaine, the first executive ticket candidate who speaks fluent Spanish can't excite Hispanics? Clinton's outreach to Moms of the Movement hasn't already pushed the black vote to a near 100% Clinton ticket on the heels of two successive increases in black turnout and polling showing that blacks (carried by black women) is most engaged this cycle?

Clinton already has a massive grassroots system. The grassroots doesn't start and end with young far left progressives. Middle aged union members, social activist groups, etc. are the ones who actually make up the grassroots movement. She doesn't need to engage them, they already are engaged.

Lastly, Clinton isn't trying to prime the pumps for eight years from now. She is a pragmatist and will do everything to stop Trump. We should all be thankful for that. She shouldn't be handicapping herself and giving Trump an inch of additional success.
Click to expand...

I'll just agree to disagree and let you have the last word here.

Crocodile said:
I think what's different here is that the resumes of everyone who was on the VP list are public knowledge. So we, the public, can judge them on their merits - I don't feel there is a double standard of where an equally qualified minority candidate got obviously snubbed. Maybe I'm not as well versed on these candidates as I thought? What candidates like Warren/Booker/Perez represent has a lot of value but it feels a bit hard to argue as a total package any one of them clearly overcome Kaine's qualifications.
Click to expand...

I was trying to make a somewhat broader point and say that the reason non-white or non-males have less impressive 'objective' resumes is itself driven by the same problems we're talking about. I have no doubt that all of those people have the intellectual capability to handle being president, but if we say a VP always needs to have 'X' official experience, we should think about why certain people tend to have X experience and others don't. That's what I meant by you can't have credentials in something you're never going to be offered in the first place.
 
R

royalan

Member
iR64NI4.jpg
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LOL
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Stephen Miller claiming that his speech for Trump actually proposed solutions. He's gonna blow up Jeffrey Lord's spot agreeing with the speech not having solutions and defending that.
 
I

itschris

Member
So, for maximum contrast, the DNC should be much more optimistic and hopeful, and actually detail plans for the future, right? Also hopefully much more united, since Bernie actually endorsed (unlike Ted Cruz).
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Teggy said:
That Navarro-Jones sequence was heavy.

The Arpaio less popular than the zika mosquito line was great.

And once again, Jeffery Lord is trash. Comparing Trump to Roosevelt.
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In a just world, that comparison would cause Teddy to rise from his grave and box Trump.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Teggy said:
Wow, Van Jones said that he's getting messages from Bernie holdouts that this put them over the edge.

Go Anna! They need to kick Lord to the curb, he is just ridiculous.

BTW, Ivanka should be ashamed of herself for the lies she tried to perpetuate tonight.
Click to expand...

I wasn't watching, over the edge in which direction?
 
M

metalslimer

Member
After that speech, Hilary's basement with Latinos is 80%. I think that speech just did serious long term damage for Republicans with the Latino community. Trump had like two throwaway lines about latinos being ok, but went on pretty much paint them all as crazy murderers.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
Eli Lake said:
I would like to congratulate Pat Buchanan for winning over the Republican party. You lost the battle in 1992, but won the war in 2016.
Click to expand...

I normally loathe Lake but this is on point. Trump borrows more from Buchanan and Nixon than any other GOP figure.
 
W

watershed

Banned
itschris said:
So, for maximum contrast, the DNC should be much more optimistic and hopeful, and actually detail plans for the future, right? Also hopefully much more united, since Bernie actually endorsed (unlike Ted Cruz).
Click to expand...

Yes, Podesta already signaled that the DNC will have a hopeful message. They will bury Trump as well, but it won't be as doom and gloom as the RNC.
 
T

TheCrow

Member
Drek said:
Tim Kaine, the first executive ticket candidate who speaks fluent Spanish can't excite Hispanics? Clinton's outreach to Moms of the Movement hasn't already pushed the black vote to a near 100% Clinton ticket on the heels of two successive increases in black turnout and polling showing that blacks (carried by black women) is most engaged this cycle?

Clinton already has a massive grassroots system. The grassroots doesn't start and end with young far left progressives. Middle aged union members, social activist groups, etc. are the ones who actually make up the grassroots movement. She doesn't need to engage them, they already are engaged.

Lastly, Clinton isn't trying to prime the pumps for eight years from now. She is a pragmatist and will do everything to stop Trump. We should all be thankful for that. She shouldn't be handicapping herself and giving Trump an inch of additional success.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Minorities are not her biggest issue but this doesn't mean she can take them for granted. I just don't think she will make that mistake.

7Kzjgqk.png
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
itschris said:
So, for maximum contrast, the DNC should be much more optimistic and hopeful, and actually detail plans for the future, right? Also hopefully much more united, since Bernie actually endorsed (unlike Ted Cruz).
Click to expand...

Blow up how great the last 8 years have been economically, how much worse it was under Republican leadership, and what they can do to improve going forward.

Going to be a huge contrast to the constant fear mongering and racism of the RNC.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I don't understand why Republicans still can't say "The last 16 years have been hard." instead of just "the last 8 years have been hard."

Just admit W sucked, your nominee already has.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Seriously, they complain about Obama not prioritizing America, while they won't even acknowledge that Iraq was a vendetta war that cost the lives of many soldiers and innocent people.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
A Link to the Past said:
Seriously, they complain about Obama not prioritizing America, while they won't even acknowledge that Iraq was a vendetta war that cost the lives of many soldiers and innocent people.
Click to expand...

We spent the entire 2000 election talking about what we could do with all the money we had because of the budget surplus.

He blew it all and did absolutely nothing.
 
GutsOfThor

GutsOfThor

Member
I normally don't donate to politicians but I just donated to Clinton. This guy is fucking terrifying and needs to be stopped at any cost.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
Here's the intro for NYT's review of Trump's speech:

With a dark tone, Trump portrayed the U.S. as a diminished nation and offered himself as an all-powerful savior

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
A Link to the Past said:
Seriously, they complain about Obama not prioritizing America, while they won't even acknowledge that Iraq was a vendetta war that cost the lives of many soldiers and innocent people.
Click to expand...

Didn't Trump kind of do that during the debates when he attacked GWB and everyone thought it would be one of the billion things that killed him?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
This is the first time I think I've ever donated to a PAC. Priorities is starting at $100? Fuck that. You're getting $50 and you'll like it.
 
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