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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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T

TheFatOne

Member
aspiegamer said:
"What the hell do you have to lose?" was off-script? lolol, does this count as him already botching the new format? As a bonus irony he said it in Michigan, home of the "emergency manager" who could fuck with cities in whatever way they felt appropriate, which is indirectly part of what happened to Flint. Seriously the worst state to be in when it comes to trying to play up "fuck it" to the AA community. Makes talking to the all-white crowd about Milwaukee in not-Milwaukee look like a casual goof.

The strategy here is interesting. Trump needs to pull about +8% of the black vote to regain +1% in the overall average. Is the play from the campaign is "surely it can't be THAT bad," and think they can get a few points nationally back with extremely minimal work? However, it's a passive admission that they think they have a better chance at convincing 6-7x as many AA voters to flip than even one single typical GOP voter to claw back at a win.
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You are looking at it incorrectly. The speech wasn't meant for AA voters. It was meant for college educated white voters to come across as not racist. It was a nothing speech to the AA community. His camp doesn't give a shit about minority voters. Speech was designed to play well with white voters while looking like he's being more inclusive.
 
G

gaugebozo

Member
TheFatOne said:
You are looking at it incorrectly. The speech wasn't meant for AA voters. It was meant for college educated white voters to come across as not racist. It was a nothing speech to the AA community. His camp doesn't give a shit about minority voters. Speech was designed to play well with white voters while looking like he's being more inclusive.
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It was given in Eaton County, where 6.3% of the population is black. If he was serious, he could have at least gone the twenty minutes over to Lansing.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
sphagnum said:
legit answer, /leftypol/ and LF (when it used to exist) are/were big on anime also. also remember that tumblr is the epicenter of online leftism and people love anime there too

I remember anime avatars being associated with Maoist posters on LF way before I ever saw the alt right adopt them. hell the poster who got LF shut down (maggotmaster) was obsessed with sayonara zetsubou sensei
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Horseshoe theory vindicated
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
Zereta said:
Can someone explain to me why the Iran money thing is even being discussed like some huge scandal?

It's the White House holding Iran's money hostage to get back American hostages, while at the same time proving they are an effective force in ensuring that work still progresses in other aspects that are internationally beneficial (Iran Nuclear deal)

Sure, optics are weird but its only weird if you are trying to find something to hit Obama on. This was some smart politics, right? And yet, news outlets are like "MAN TRUMP'S SHIT DOMINATING WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN A ROUGH WEEK FOR HILLARY"

Please.
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There's a fine line between leverage and payment, imo.

I don't like that were even near using cash as leverage if the state dept is to be believed

Also Obama went on record that these were completely separate

Gotta say if a repub president/admin has the same thing happen people here would be freaking out over the controversey
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
There's a fine line between leverage and payment, imo.

I don't like that were even near using cash as leverage if the state dept is to be believed

Also Obama went on record that these were completely separate

Gotta say if a repub president/admin has the same thing happen people here would be freaking out over the controversey
Click to expand...

I don't see it. There might be some degree of similarity in response; for instance, more left-leaning people would oppose Obama on drone strikes if he was a Republican. However, there's some pretty decent, consistent evidence that people on the left would not go to the same extremes as those on the rights on these issues were the parties flipped. It's the same with an obstructionist Congress - Bush's left-leaning Congress was way more willing to work across the aisle than Obama's right-leaning Congress.
 
sazzy

sazzy

Member
Maledict said:
Unsurprising. This poll has a massive trump bias in it, presumably because of who they selected at the start of the process. It's not conducted like other polls, and has always shown a very significant Trump bias.
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Diablos said:
Doesn't this poll have a really bad reputation by now
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If I understand correctly, I think they selected 3000 people and only poll them each time.

Why would they do that?
 
G

gaugebozo

Member
sazzy said:
If I understand correctly, I think they selected 3000 people and only poll them each time.

Why would they do that?
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The issue with changing each time is that you don't know if moves in the polls are from a change in public opinion or because you just happened to select a group of people who think differently. By keeping the same selection, you can say without a doubt the moves are because the opinion is changing. The problem here though is that you may pick an awful sample to begin with. Then your results aren't going to look like what the country actually thinks.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Zereta said:
Can someone explain to me why the Iran money thing is even being discussed like some huge scandal?

It's the White House holding Iran's money hostage to get back American hostages, while at the same time proving they are an effective force in ensuring that work still progresses in other aspects that are internationally beneficial (Iran Nuclear deal)

Sure, optics are weird but its only weird if you are trying to find something to hit Obama on. This was some smart politics, right? And yet, news outlets are like "MAN TRUMP'S SHIT DOMINATING WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN A ROUGH WEEK FOR HILLARY"

Please.
Click to expand...

Something about lying. They all stated they would never exchange money for American hostages... Then they exchanged money for American hostages!!!
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
A Link to the Past said:
I don't see it. There might be some degree of similarity in response; for instance, more left-leaning people would oppose Obama on drone strikes if he was a Republican. However, there's some pretty decent, consistent evidence that people on the left would not go to the same extremes as those on the rights on these issues were the parties flipped. It's the same with an obstructionist Congress - Bush's left-leaning Congress was way more willing to work across the aisle than Obama's right-leaning Congress.
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Not the same extremes yes. There would still be a response
Imo
 
sazzy

sazzy

Member
here's a great article from the atlantic

Hope Is What Separates Trump Voters From Clinton Voters

...

But here’s the weird thing: Folks in hard-hit industrial towns aren’t voting for Trump. When Michigan Republicans went to the polls in March, economists expected to see huge Trump turnout in areas with the most shuttered factories. Instead, they got the opposite: Trump’s support was strongest in towns that had gained manufacturing jobs. He did about 20 percentage points worse in areas where layoffs were most intense. It was completely the opposite of what everyone expected.
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Earlier this month, Gallup economist Jonathan Rothwell published a working paper expanding the Michigan analysis to the entire country. This time, he used opinion poll results instead of vote totals, making the data more current. Rothwell found the same trend: Trump did worse in towns that lost manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2007, and better in areas that gained them. Indeed, Trump is most popular in prosperous areas.
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Consider this: Two-thirds of Hillary Clinton’s supporters think the next generation will be in better shape than we are today, or least the same, according to Pew Research. The reverse is true for Trump’s camp. Sixty-eight percent of his supporters think the next generation will be worse off.
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/donald-trump-manufacturing-jobs-hope/496541/
 
F

FloydtheFathead

Member
shinra-bansho said:
Make Anime Great Again.
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giphy.gif
 
sazzy

sazzy

Member
Very long and detailed article.

In Maze of Trump’s Empire, Unknown Ties and $650 Million in Debt

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/donald-trump-debt.html

On the campaign trail, Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, has sold himself as a businessman who has made billions of dollars and is beholden to no one.

But an investigation by The New York Times into the financial maze of Mr. Trump’s real estate holdings in the United States reveals that companies he owns have at least $650 million in debt — twice the amount than can be gleaned from public filings he has made as part of his bid for the White House. The Times’s inquiry also found that Mr. Trump’s fortunes depend deeply on a wide array of financial backers, including one he has cited in attacks during his campaign.

For example, an office building on Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, of which Mr. Trump is part owner, carries a $950 million loan. Among the lenders: the Bank of China, one of the largest banks in a country that Mr. Trump has railed against as an economic foe of the United States, and Goldman Sachs, a financial institution he has said controls Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee, after it paid her $675,000 in speaking fees.

Real estate projects often involve complex ownership and mortgage structures. And given Mr. Trump’s long real estate career in the United States and abroad, as well as his claim that his personal wealth exceeds $10 billion, it is safe to say that no previous major party presidential nominee has had finances nearly as complicated.

As president, Mr. Trump would have substantial sway over monetary and tax policy, as well as the power to make appointments that would directly affect his own financial empire. He would also wield influence over legislative issues that could have a significant impact on his net worth, and would have official dealings with countries in which he has business interests.

Yet The Times’s examination underscored how much of Mr. Trump’s business remains shrouded in mystery. He has declined to disclose his tax returns or allow an independent valuation of his assets.
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Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
cartoon_soldier said:
Why the hell are the Clintons still doing this this year

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-charity-event-presidential-debates-227223
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I mean, this is why the Clintons have done everything this year: they don't see anything wrong with it. That's why Hillary's email answer continues to suck so bad. It's why Bill met Loretta Lynch on the tarmac a few months ago. It's like Seinfeld's "not a lie if you believe it" thing.

The Clintons are political animals. Pay to play IS the name of the game and has been like since Roman times. They probably don't understand why now people are like, "Oh this is so wrong!" Especially when next year everyone will forget again.

Hillary's sort of the wrong candidate for this mood. It just so happens that Trump is so categorically awful she will win.
 
sazzy

sazzy

Member
Last weekend, NYT did the piece on Manafort and his Ukraine ties.

This weekend, its Trump's debts.

Any guesses to what's next?
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
I don't think much of anything at this exact point in time is going to make a difference. We know Trump's negatives by and large. We know Clinton's negatives by and large. We know that more people are picking Clinton over Trump by a large margin.

Clinton foundation stuff was being criticized yesterday. And a week ago. And a month ago. And a year ago. Same with the e-mail. Everyone has heard all about it. Most people think it was wrong or bad or stupid. Most people are sick of hearing about it and have pretty much tuned out.

More of both isn't going to shift the needle in any significant way.

The first debate is going to be much more important than anything you'll hear about e-mails of the Clinton foundation or Donald Trump saying offensive things at rallies or not making as much money as he claims or whatever.

Trump is flailing looking for a message. Clinton is in a holding pattern to see if he finds anything that needs her to actually start hitting him hard or if he keeps punching himself in the face.

Probably until the first debate where I think Clinton is going to tear Trump apart. Obviously that prediction could be way off, but I think people are going to expect Trump to do well at the debates as he did in the primaries, and it's just not a format or an environment that's condusive to his previous tactics. Any personal attacks he throws at Clinton are just going to ricochet right off her and hurt him.

Clinton is going to tear him apart on policy. Trump will try to talk over her and get her to take the bait, and I don't believe she will. He'll flounder and start trying to hit her with one liners to get a pop from the crowd.

The only thing I'm unsure about is if he can avoid hitting her with anything gendered. Because that would be about the biggest mistake he could make, and it's something we all know he could plausibly do.
 
L

Lmo911

Member
I don't get how this is so hard to deflect:

"It's charity. We provide so many millions of dollars worth of good to the world through these donations."

"But what about [company so and so] or [guy from this country]?"

"While we may not agree on many things we can find enough common ground to help in these philanthropic pursuits."

It's not a hard thing to defend or something difficult to understand. Even Trump recently backed off on attacking the foundation, probably because he has donated money to it himself. Hell conservatives want to get rid of all government programs and make everything based on charity

If Bill Gates ran for office, would we all be asking for him to end the Bill and Malinda Gates foundation?

I'm not saying the optics are perfect or anything, but the big point of contention on her right now is that she runs... a charity? I only think it'll win points with people who don't like her in the first place.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Lmo911 said:
I don't get how this is so hard to deflect:

"It's charity. We provide so many millions of dollars worth of good to the world through these donations."

"But what about [company so and so] or [guy from this country]?"

"While we may not agree on many things we can find enough common ground to help in these philanthropic pursuits."

It's not a hard thing to defend or something difficult to understand. Even Trump recently backed off on attacking the foundation, probably because he has donated money to it himself. Hell conservatives want to get rid of all government programs and make everything based on charity

If Bill Gates ran for office, would we all be asking for him to end the Bill and Malinda Gates foundation?

I'm not saying the optics are perfect or anything, but the big point of contention on her right now is that she runs... a charity? I only think it'll win points with people who don't like her in the first place.
Click to expand...

If an awful dictator wants to give up resources to us that we can then spend on good causes... I mean... would it be better if they kept that money and we didn't get to?
 
A

ampere

Member
Saw this on reddit, it's an amazing assessment of how anti-immigration folks view immigrants:

J98JNi5.jpg
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davepoobond said:
im following him and im not going to vote for that asshole. just makes it easier to see the awful shit
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He doesn't get this. The press obviously follows him to report on his tweets and many others like you

Same with Hillary ofc, and many followers are bots anyway
 
L

Lmo911

Member
plagiarize said:
If an awful dictator wants to give up resources to us that we can then spend on good causes... I mean... would it be better if they kept that money and we didn't get to?
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Exactly and you can even work with that. "We can uses these funds to help those in need and through these efforts I hope that we can convince [evil dictator] that his policies are not the best for his people and he can see the results of these actions for himself."
 
C

Crisco

Banned
What makes the most sense to me is for the Clintons to just cut all personal ties with the foundation and put it in the hands of someone else. Or, just ignore the criticism because no who isn't already in the tank for Trump gives a shit. Just refusing foreign donations during her time in the WH feels like a half measure, and as we all know....

200_s.gif
 
1

120v

Member
Lmo911 said:
I'm not saying the optics are perfect or anything, but the big point of contention on her right now is that she runs... a charity? I only think it'll win points with people who don't like her in the first place
Click to expand...

it'll never be seen as a charity though. it's an organization... run by the clintons.

it'll be a shaaaady umbrella corporation no matter how its defended
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
We should not negotiate with terrorists or assholes?
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Who is negotiating?

I've seen zero evidence that there is any sort of deal or quid pro quo thing in place when you give money to the Clinton foundation. You do it freely without anything promised in return, unless you have evidence to the contrary.
 
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