AntraxSuicide
Banned
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to the reaction of the WH after they realize the meeting about leaking things was leaked!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to the reaction of the WH after they realize the meeting about leaking things was leaked!
Roland_Gunner
Member
This is the source of much of the frustration for 'mainstream' Democrats. The only campaign I ever actually worked for was in '04 for Edwards after grad school. We lost, it sucked, and then in the fall I did phone banking for Kerry. At no point did the Edwards campaign demand any kind of special consideration. Then Dean supporters, the proto-Sanders crowd, spent years re-fighting the campaign despite their guy finishing a distant third.
The same thing happened in '08 with the first Clinton campaign, although admittedly with a lot more bitterness. They sucked it up and moved on. You didn't see Clinton delegates try to burn down the Denver convention like the Sanders supporters did. Why does the entire party have to twist itself in knots appeasing one faction that hasn't won anything?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Trump will probably shit on Duckworth's lack of legs within the next two years (I don't know for what reason) and that won't even be the bottom.
There is no floor.
There is no floor.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Sghetti rasslin on the White House lawn is incoming.
Basileus777
Member
They did?
Can't help but put them down, can you.
It may depend on the city, but at least here in Dallas, the activist scene leans progressive -- even had Bernie delegates talk at the last big BLM march. I'd imagine that's similar across the nation, considering the age demos of the core group of activists. And it's not some cartoonish declaration of "Ellison lost, let's stop protesting." It's about passion. They're activated and excited and dems need to avoid appearing as if they're not on the same page. If it doesn't feel like dems will fight for them, it just makes it all feel more helpless, or we might get more division and infighting. Of course, poligaf's solution is to just tell these people to get in line or fuck off.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
America now has Saddam, Uday, Qusay, and Baghdad Bob in our government.
For the time being, I can't. That's reflective of my own experience with a number of people I know during and post election who are insufferable. Beyond that, all I can say to that is they are genuinely activated and excited then the most important thing for them to learn is where to direct that enthusiasm and energy. This is not it. A vote for either was always going to be a win compared to who they are replacing. Be it a black muslim or a latino son of immigrants, there's no con. To try and find one is counter productive and I'd hope those who are actively in the front lines for the next 4 years don't fall into that trap. I say it here and I say it when I go to local dem meetings, young dems meeting, and people I meet at events/protests.
One thing about Perez. He is a goofy looking dude (and why I was opposed to him as VP for Hillary) bro is just not photogenic. Not that it matters for DNC chair.
Edit:
Yes it's shallow but it unfortunately matters (though Trumps schlubby chic seems counter factual to this)
Edit:
Yes it's shallow but it unfortunately matters (though Trumps schlubby chic seems counter factual to this)
CrimzonSamurai
Member
This just makes it extra cartoonish because there's no substantial difference at all between Perez and Ellison other than Christ reborn Bernie endorsed one and former Christ reborn Obama supported the other. The actions either would take would have been almost entirely the same. If you can't deal with not getting your way 100% of the time in a big tent party you're just going to be a disruptive insurgence or you're going to stay home and let fascists win because of your own sense of entitlement.
Been here (can look through thread so we don't retread same ground again)
I don't remember any of that online as a Dean supporter/donor who was reading the Dean for America blog and Daily Kos. Everyone was behind Kerry even though we thought he wasn't the best candidate. People were mad at Iowa voters & the media, not the party.
Dean started Democracy for America which was decently successful & was DNC chair by this time in 05.
Heck, I remember hearing about how Illinois was probably the strongest state for Dean meetups, and how "Dean for Illinois" heard about Barack Obama and how basically all those folks worked like crazy to get Obama elected in the Senate primary once the Dean campaign folded up shop. Nobody checked out. Nader in Florida in 2000 was fresh in everyone's memory.
Roland_Gunner
Member
God yes, even last spring there were weekly posts here about how Dean would have beaten Bush if the Dems had nominated him.
Its not like I have any data or anything but after not following politics for a few years it was amazing to come back around 2012 and see the same arguments about how Democrats always lose by moving to center and that Bush was only re-elected because we didn't embrace the Dean movement.
Basileus777
Member
That doesn't really say anything.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
lol someone ambushed Labrador about when he'd be doing town halls and his response was "People don't even want town halls, they're tired of them."
shinra-bansho
Member
Where does one get the demographic breakdown of the Women's March?
Also, under the premise that Birdie is the centre of the universe, why is it okay to give the Chair position to him simply because he was endorsed by Birdie and Pocahontas and not okay to deny him for the same reason anyway. Maybe it's not a good reason one way or another to make the decision?
Ellison was given a ton of institutional support, he had plenty of time and fora to make his case, and he couldn't seal the deal. And now he'll get to be Deputy Chair.
Also, under the premise that Birdie is the centre of the universe, why is it okay to give the Chair position to him simply because he was endorsed by Birdie and Pocahontas and not okay to deny him for the same reason anyway. Maybe it's not a good reason one way or another to make the decision?
Ellison was given a ton of institutional support, he had plenty of time and fora to make his case, and he couldn't seal the deal. And now he'll get to be Deputy Chair.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Your argument falls apart because Rance Priebus was the RNC chair.
Republicans are meant to look ugly so it matches their souls.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Has he officially withdrawn yet?
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Hah good point
I said it doesn't matter for Chair of national committees. Also Reince is quite fetching for a being from the puzzle box realm.
Little late to the discussion here, but just want to add my view.
America exists in a liminal space between racism and economic inequality. Racism is an ideology and race forms part of the country's cultural fabric, and thus can't be ignored. Racism seems to be strongly (although not necessarily) activated by increasing economic inequality among whites. Yet, simultaneously, whites, largely speaking, are not willing to sell out the value of their whiteness in the pursuit of economic equality. This is the political contradiction that needs to be solved for progressives: how do you pursue policies that erode both economic and racial hierarchies when a significant part of the voting base wants the former resolved but not the latter?
This contradiction is easily resolved through white supremacy, as the plunder of non-whites enables whites to feel both economically and racially secure. This is why Trump was so successful, as he campaigned at a time when both racial and economic positions were under threat for whites.
For us on the left, we need to focus on devaluing or delegitimizing the racial hierarchy itself before we can really look to achieve successful reform on the economic one. That being said, it's extremely challenging to do that in a country like the US, that has race so firmly planted in its consciousness and that is so strongly geographically segregated. It's not going to be a fast process and there will be setbacks, and some whites will never stop loving their whiteness. So it's a tough position to work from.
I do think direct, non-confrontational engagement with rural or racially-resentful whites is necessary, but I also don't think it's fair to ask non-whites to disproportionately bear the weight of that. The onus is really on moderate whites to bridge the gap and become open to discussing race and racial hierarchy as a real phenomenon. Leftist whites also need to find language and arguments that engage with and devalue racism, and if they listen to PoC they can learn what those arguments are.
Basically, the key here is that we shouldn't be arguing that the issue is racism or economics or engagement. It's all three at the same time.
America exists in a liminal space between racism and economic inequality. Racism is an ideology and race forms part of the country's cultural fabric, and thus can't be ignored. Racism seems to be strongly (although not necessarily) activated by increasing economic inequality among whites. Yet, simultaneously, whites, largely speaking, are not willing to sell out the value of their whiteness in the pursuit of economic equality. This is the political contradiction that needs to be solved for progressives: how do you pursue policies that erode both economic and racial hierarchies when a significant part of the voting base wants the former resolved but not the latter?
This contradiction is easily resolved through white supremacy, as the plunder of non-whites enables whites to feel both economically and racially secure. This is why Trump was so successful, as he campaigned at a time when both racial and economic positions were under threat for whites.
For us on the left, we need to focus on devaluing or delegitimizing the racial hierarchy itself before we can really look to achieve successful reform on the economic one. That being said, it's extremely challenging to do that in a country like the US, that has race so firmly planted in its consciousness and that is so strongly geographically segregated. It's not going to be a fast process and there will be setbacks, and some whites will never stop loving their whiteness. So it's a tough position to work from.
I do think direct, non-confrontational engagement with rural or racially-resentful whites is necessary, but I also don't think it's fair to ask non-whites to disproportionately bear the weight of that. The onus is really on moderate whites to bridge the gap and become open to discussing race and racial hierarchy as a real phenomenon. Leftist whites also need to find language and arguments that engage with and devalue racism, and if they listen to PoC they can learn what those arguments are.
Basically, the key here is that we shouldn't be arguing that the issue is racism or economics or engagement. It's all three at the same time.
It's not complicated. Both very qualified for the job, but with one of the picks you get the bonus of reaching out a hand to the progressive wing by going with their preferred choice.
Instead,
"Oh, you want a progressive? Sure, as long as it isn't a sanders progressive."
And then complain when they don't thank you for slapping them in the face.
excelsiorlef
Member
If all it takes to deflate the current resistance and activism against Trump is Tom Perez getting named DNC chair and Ellison Deputy chair than bluntly I'm glad it happened so early so fokjs can adjust strategy because what that tells me is that the activism was never going to be reliable and it's better fir it to deflate now than closer to 2018 whenever someone at the DNC does something else insignificant to defate these activists
excelsiorlef
Member
Maybe Sanders shouldn't have insulted the popular and well respected former Vice-President and Ellison's chief rival in the race as both being part of the failed status quo... maybe if you wanted people to work with you and pick your guy over Obama's preference ya don't publicly call Biden and Perez failures for no good reason... Consider how utterly stupid that was to say when Ellison was preaching unity and was really starting to get that message out
ugaboga232
Member
As someone not really staunchly on the bernie or clinton sides or w/e here I just wanted to make one observation couched in my research/area of expertise. I think we heavily heavily heavily overestimate how much policy or the details matter to 99% of voters. Perception, tone, and emotion are king in these sort of things. As good of a bureaucrat as clinton was, she was kind of a nerd who wasn't as good at showing her emotional self. And she had 30 years of bad news against her and the hillary hate was pretty much terminal by this point and nothing would change a lot of people's minds. I think the left/democratic party could stand to integrate a bit of psychology and neuroscience in how we message/advertise. One thing Trump did well is that he was everything to all people to a degree that you could project your own candidate to a degree wrapped in a very adrenaline pumping way.
Humans like adrenaline. Humans like to feel good. I think abusing psychology is gonna be necessary given the other side is doing it with Cambridge Analytics and Trump's inherent lack of any superego and being pure Id.
Humans like adrenaline. Humans like to feel good. I think abusing psychology is gonna be necessary given the other side is doing it with Cambridge Analytics and Trump's inherent lack of any superego and being pure Id.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Someone here (without mentioning it) applied prospect theory, which is a pretty interesting lens to look at the entire election from that I hadn't done enough of since learning about it.
I'm doing a political psychology class right now so it's on my mind more often.
ugaboga232
Member
Neuroeconomics is very quickly becoming a thing and neuroscience is having a bit of a boom now (starting my PhD in 2 weeks in a lab looking at the circuit that mediates basically the superego and how the id interacts with it in laymen's terms). I think the time to start applying the large body of knowledge in psych and neuro to our benefit. There are entire fields dedicated to figuring out how to get people to change strongly held beliefs including absurdly strongly held and pathological beliefs. It is easy to get trapped in thinking that we live in the world of right and wrong and philosophy when we live in a stupid world full of behavioral shortcuts that people can, will, and do take advantage of.
Perception is the brain's reality after all.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
.
shinra-bansho
Member
No one cares if anyone says thank you. I think the prevailing sentiment is more grow up and get over yourself.
Maybe some of the DNC chair voters had residual animus, or maybe some of them didn't, maybe they thought Ellison was too vulnerable to attack, maybe they just liked Perez better, maybe they thought he could work better with the party apparatus, maybe they thought he had better relationships in the org to make him effective, maybe the popular former President tacitly preferring someone actually had some teeny tiny sway (shock).
Why is Tom Perez, a reliable progressive, labor friendly Labor Secretary, not a hand to the progressive wing? Not being anointed by the High Sparrow? Because then it basically has zero to do with being "progressive" so maybe we should stop calling it that then.
Both qualified, one won. Oh. Okay. That should have been the sum total of reaction.
I can already see the dumb arguments when anointed Liberal Icon Tulsi Gabbard competes with Gillary.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Suicide Squad won an Oscar, Trump's America
What the fuck
Aaron Strife
Banned
Best Makeup
I thought for sure "stats trump tweets" was going to take that category.
Huh. I'm surprised that didn't go to Star Trek.
Definitely not looking forward to hearing about Oscar Winner Suicide Squad.
In more Trump Ragrets (and scared people) news:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.7f3e0630e299
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.7f3e0630e299
Poodlestrike
Banned
Don't you be badmouthing the movie with more Oscars than the entirety of the MCU combined.
:kappa
Such economic anxiety.
There's this common thread throughout so many of those of "Yeah, we know he's fucking up our jobs/trade/money...but we should still give him a chance!" The elephant in the room is blatant.
I hope Perez now that he is the DNC chair competes in every race like this.
metalslimer
Member
lol he's killing it making 110k in fucking Iowa
Right? A two income family with one of them making 110k would be good
in California!
We're also ignoring the fact that the place where he works is suffering from a labour shortage.
The dude who is in an union and his father is a farmer. Knows Trump is anti union and his trade polices would hurt his family. How do you know all this and still vote for dude? Even going on about he's doing what he said he was going to do. And he wants people to give Trump a chance. Dude is a big Fox News viewer too. I just don't get these people. They know Trump will fuck over people they love and they still support him.
metalslimer
Member
Trump is going to be up all night trashing the oscars
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Racism is one hell of a drug, as they say
Tranqueris
Banned
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...member-killed-trump-answers-article-1.2982631
I eagerly await the response from the President of the United States. Which will be something like.. "Ryan's father, who has never met me, has said some unfair things about me, very unfair. You don't think I made sacrifices that day too?"
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked