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[Aaron Strife]

America: "we have this experienced stateswoman that knows how to navigate the tangled web that is world politics and economics"

Electoral College: "we have a dumbass"

He truly represents the average American.

Everyone realizes how badly Trump would get owned in a trade deal right?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

From OT, on Merkel's visit to the WH:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-puts-eu-ahead-of-britain-in-trade-queue-l7t8zwn7k

GOD HELP US ALL

Just tell Trump to do something 11 times and he'll do it, got it.

 

[sangreal]

Just tell Trump to do something 11 times and he'll do it, got it.

that has been obvious for awhile. He will do anything that he thinks pleases other people. Of course that means that the last person to talk to him always wins. He is not a leader whatsoever

if may talks to him again, he will put the uk first -- as long as fox is ok with it

 

[Plumbob]

*Whispers* The biggest thing the Dems could do to pick up voters is to demonize Muslims *End Whispers*


But we aren't going to fucking do that because it's wrong.

So when you talk about moderating on an issue, you have to evaluate how much the issue does matter to the core of liberalism.

Well I mean don't worship an ideology, pragmatically work to achieve the most good for the most people.

 

[Wilsongt]

https://twitter.com/sarahnferris/status/855497861655605253



How are they this fucking stupid?

This is too much for just a gif, so this is a video of my laugh.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8M3aI6pwuA

 

[shinra-bansho]

The likes of Joe Biden and Tim Kaine, as Catholics, have more conservative views on abortion. They don't seek to impose them on others though - or at least not in recent history. And no one really seeks to brand them as progressive at the expense of others credibility.

I mean the last part is largely what irks people.

That to be this dumb label you need to hate industry, and want free everything right now, but can be a racist who wants women barefoot and pregnant.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Is their a French Election thread? I searched but can't find one.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Is their a French Election thread? I searched but can't find one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1338863

not sure how you missed it

 

[Poodlestrike]

And they can promote it by showing the polls that show most Americans want the same thing, like restrictive background checks.

Ehhhhh

They say they want that, but the support is EXTREMELY soft. Any level of inconvenience or increased cost associated with those background checks is probably a dealbreaker.

Something I've learned since moving to Bumfuck, Indiana (only 4 more months to go, I can do it, keep it together Poodle...) is that for a lot of these guys, guns are their LIFE. It's what they talk about, what they think about, what they spend most of their disposable income on. It's like dealing with hardcore weeaboos, except instead of figurines, it's handguns, and instead of blu rays, it's ammo.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Ehhhhh

They say they want that, but the support is EXTREMELY soft. Any level of inconvenience or increased cost associated with those background checks is probably a dealbreaker.

Something I've learned since moving to Bumfuck, Indiana (only 4 more months to go, I can do it, keep it together Poodle...) is that for a lot of these guys, guns are their LIFE. It's what they talk about, what they think about, what they spend most of their disposable income on. It's like dealing with hardcore weeaboos, except instead of figurines, it's handguns, and instead of blu rays, it's ammo.

Expanded background checks was on the ballot in Maine, and got smacked down. You saw more yards signs in ME CD2 against that than anything else, and it wasn't even close.

It's one big reason why there was such a hard swing from Dem to Republican here. The rhetoric and propaganda was absolutely pathetic.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Someone ask Bernie about Fillon vs. Le Pen.

 

[Officerrob]

CNN running a piece on Anderson Cooper right now on how all but a handful of Trump's executive actions have been nothing but glorified photo-ops

 

[sangreal]

CNN running a piece on Anderson Cooper right now on how all but a handful of Trump's executive actions have been nothing but glorified photo-ops

Haven't seen the story, but I think that is the vast majority of them. Nothing but calls for committees or reviews

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Someone ask Bernie about Fillon vs. Le Pen.

We all know he's a Melanchon guy.

 

[whyamihere]

I'm okay giving up guns for rural votes.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm okay giving up guns for rural votes.

Confiscating guns would probably save 15k lives a year from gun suicides.

 

[Electric Eye]

Haven't seen the story, but I think that is the vast majority of them. Nothing but calls for committees or reviews

Yep everything is a review and all they had to do was ask for data that is already available. Their whole plan was to prop up Trump for the 100 day mark with a bunch a hollow and horrible EOs except things have been so shit for them their plan didn't work at all. They couldn't even get the "he's doing what he said he would, getting more done than Obama" talking point to catch on at all beyond their far gone core crazies. Sad

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm okay giving up guns for rural votes.

The thing about guns for me is that guns are not really tied to human rights (directly, at least), and given the choice between human rights issues like abortion, racism and gay marriage, or guns, I'm much more likely to look the other way for the issue that isn't related to human rights.

If candidate A was hard on guns, but anti-choice, I wouldn't support them. But if they were pro-gun, but also pro-choice, I'd be much, much more likely to support them.

I put human rights above all else when picking a candidate.

 

[Coriolanus]

Patience of a saint, I would've left after #3

Why? If you're dealing with such a fool that you've to repeat basic info like that, imagine just how hard you can fleece that cretin when the time comes to put pen to paper.

Confiscating guns would probably save 15k lives a year from gun suicides.

given how harshly people react to going after shit like larger weapons, which kill very few people in total numbers, i can only imagine just how hard the democrats that went after handguns and revolvers would get creamed.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Confiscating guns would probably save 15k lives a year from gun suicides.

Yes, but, counterpoint, if we can get single-issue gun voters on board with the rest of our policies we can save way more than 15k lives per year and hugely improve even more lives than that. And who knows, maybe 15-50 years down the line after improved education is really felt those future rural voters will have a sufficiently diverse set of hobbies and interests for that to be a workable policy position, but right now it's just not fucking worth it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think gun control will be a states and supreme court handled issue, it seems impossible to tackle from a federal perspective.

Blue states are going to keep pushing more and more, and the SC will keep pushing back, but eventually they'll find something that passes the SC, and from there the gates are open

 

[Poodlestrike]

I think gun control will be a states and supreme court handled issue, it seems impossible to tackle from a federal perspective.

Blue states are going to keep pushing more and more, and the SC will keep pushing back, but eventually they'll find something that passes the SC, and from there the gates are open

I mean, it's really only possible to tackle on a federal level, or else you end up with situations like how most of the guns in places like NY and Chicago are just getting brought in from nearby states where they're plentiful.

But it's just not a battle worth fighting right now.

 

[shinra-bansho]

America is so weird.

 

[Suikoguy]

I mean, it's really only possible to tackle on a federal level, or else you end up with situations like how most of the guns in places like NY and Chicago are just getting brought in from nearby states where they're plentiful.

But it's just not a battle worth fighting right now.

Even then, you need to either spend considerable resources on checking incoming transports on the mexico/us border, or get Mexico to outlaw guns.

You will never get rid of 100% of them, but you drive the black market prices up to make them untenable for criminals to use and for suicide.

 

[Coriolanus]

I think gun control will be a states and supreme court handled issue, it seems impossible to tackle from a federal perspective.

Blue states are going to keep pushing more and more, and the SC will keep pushing back, but eventually they'll find something that passes the SC, and from there the gates are open

i mean, is why SC makeup is so important. Same problem happens with abortion and other issues that are too troublesome to be tackled.

Even then, you need to either spend considerable resources on checking incoming transports on the mexico/us border, or get Mexico to outlaw guns.

You will never get rid of 100% of them, but you drive the black market prices up to make them untenable for criminals to use and for suicide.

until 3d printers get good/cheap enough, anyway.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I'm okay giving up guns for rural votes.

It's the smartest thing to do

It isn't like we gain votes for anti gun stances. We only lose them.

I think like Connecticut and Illinois are the only two states in the union where anti gun stances are a winning issue altogether

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I mean, it's really only possible to tackle on a federal level, or else you end up with situations like how most of the guns in places like NY and Chicago are just getting brought in from nearby states where they're plentiful.

But it's just not a battle worth fighting right now.

I think we need a baseline for what will or won't be acceptable for the SC. There's no real point in using up so much political capital to pass a big gun reform at the federal level, only for it to be gutted by the SC a year later.

Via states, even if ineffective, allow the government to feel out what is or isn't acceptable, to ultimately craft a SC approved bill when the time is right.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I think we need a baseline for what will or won't be acceptable for the SC. There's no real point in using up so much political capital to pass a big gun reform at the federal level, only for it to be gutted by the SC a year later.

Via states, even if ineffective, allow the government to feel out what is or isn't acceptable, to ultimately craft a SC approved bill when the time is right.

I mean, the current status quo is that we can't even spend political capital on it because we don't gain any political capital from even pursuing it. This is a lot of peoples' sole issue, and as long as the Dems have even a hint of anti-gun in their platform they'll show up every single election and vote R all the way up and down the ticket. Doesn't even matter what the rest of their policies look like.

Guns are not abortion. This is not a hill worth dying on.

 

[pigeon]

I'm really unconvinced that all these "single issue gun voters" would stay home or vote Democratic if we didn't talk about guns.

 

[Fenderputty]

Confiscating guns would probably save 15k lives a year from gun suicides.

How many lives would UHC or single payer save a year because we can get rural votes?

I'm really unconvinced that all these "single issue gun voters" would stay home or vote Democratic if we didn't talk about guns.

It's a huge issue for a lot of owners I know. It's anecdotal I realize.

 

[AndyD]

Random question. Would a national single payer healthcare system be a huge boon to small businesses? I always hear about how businesses are crippled by healthcare costs so why wouldn't single payer be super attractive to that normally conservative constituency?

I think if Dems ever decide to start pushing for this or Medicare for all again, this could be a selling point.

They would still pay payroll taxes towards that universal health care. In general the idea is that it would shift healthcare expenses paid to a third party insurance company into as payroll tax to fund the single player system. It would make it easier, more predictable and potentially slightly cheaper, but those costs would not be eliminated entirely.

 

[Ac30]

Since the French hold their elections this Sunday, it got me thinking again about the bizarre fact that elections are held on a weekday in America - would the senate be able to pass legislation to change that to the weekend, or is it in your constitution?

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Since the French hold their elections this Sunday, it got me thinking again about the bizarre fact that elections are held on a weekday in America - would the senate be able to pass legislation to change that to the weekend, or is it in your constitution?

It'll be handwaved as giving an advantage to democrats and then die on the ground

 

[metalslimer]

Unless democrats take a pro gun stance the NRA will still pain them as 2nd amendment hating Nazis

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Unless democrats take a pro gun stance the NRA will still pain them as 2nd amendment hating Nazis

Nationally, of course. But locally, you can get around that stuff with the right candidates. That MO guy who was putting guns together in an ad seemed to gain some ground for that.

I'm really unconvinced that all these "single issue gun voters" would stay home or vote Democratic if we didn't talk about guns.

I mean, yeah, I'm not convinced that it'll lead to some massive electoral wins, but technocratically speaking, literally none of our gun proposals actually do anything, so there's no downside at all on moderating here. Like someone said above, outside of a few states, our position is only costing us votes for what amounts to a pointless hill to die on.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Unless democrats take a pro gun stance the NRA will still pain them as 2nd amendment hating Nazis

I would imagine cratering gun sales are having them rethink backing Trump. They excel with an evil boogeyman Dem in office.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm sometimes somewhat curious... why some "single issue" pandering to some certain groups for the unproven marginal gains is okay. And in the process basically screw over reliable constituencies.

But it's not okay to, for instance, pander to (or really even accept into the tent, without even needing any pandering to) a voter that agrees on all of the silly social justice warrior issues but doesn't necessarily want the socialist utopia, or abhor all things business.

But then I remember that none of the former affects white ostensibly liberal men.

 

[Fenderputty]

I would imagine cratering gun sales are having them rethink backing Trump. They excel with an evil boogeyman Dem in office.

Even more reason to not give the gun nut a boogeyman

 

[Fenderputty]

I'm somewhat curious... why some "single issue" pandering to some certain groups for the unproven marginal gains is okay. And in the process basically screw over reliable constituencies.

But it's not okay to, for instance, pander to (or really even accept into the tent, without even needing any pandering to) a voter that agrees on all of the silly social justice warrior issues but doesn't necessarily want the socialist utopia, or abhor all things business.

Thankfully I've never advocated for pushing out the socially liberal moderate

 

[shinra-bansho]

Good for you? That doesn't seem to always be the case.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

15k lives saved per year is actually really close to the Obamacare lives saved per year estimate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ck-obama-says-health-care-law-has-led-50000-/

Of course, these numbers (15k a year) would only be reached from gun confiscation and banning guns which is obviously unconstitutional. Assault weapons bans don't work at all and save no lives so it's not important to have that in the platform.

 

[Dan]

Since the French hold their elections this Sunday, it got me thinking again about the bizarre fact that elections are held on a weekday in America - would the senate be able to pass legislation to change that to the weekend, or is it in your constitution?

It's not part of the US Constitution. It's regular ol' legislation with its roots dating back 150+ years. It would take the House of Representatives and Senate agreeing on something and the President's signature (or enough votes to overturn a veto). Then states and local governments would have to get in line and probably adjust accordingly.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Guns are a danger to the mentally ill (not because they'll use them on schools or whatever dumb stereotypes there are, but because they'll possibly use them on themselves) and are a human rights issue.

 

[Pixieking]

You have to be intellectually curious, which most populists aren't (as they're in search of a simple message and solution). If you forced Sanders to sit down and read nothing but papers about various situations that he clearly had no interest in, I would've been tempted to vote for him in the primary (or at least that negative would've gone away).

The trick is that the establishment isn't a cabal of evil Scrooges out for blood; they're just in favor of the status quo and are therefore going to want good assurances that your new system (whatever it is) is actually definitely going to be at least as good as the current one. That requires good answers to tough questions, which populists frequently don't have. I absolutely think you can bridge the gap.

I think this makes me realise part of why I dislike Bernie so much. He is a populist, and he does go for the easy answers. Which is fine for a generic politician, but not for someone who is aiming for leadership in some form, and has a whole swathe of supporters. He could do a vast amount of good if he stepped-up, swallowed his ego, and admitted his ignorance... But he's old, stuck-in-his-ways, and argumentative.

Or, to put it another way, he's an old white guy playing politics.

I can't imagine a comprehensive 50-state strategy that doesn't include anti-abortion and anti-gun control candidates.

This comment reminds me...

https://twitter.com/PPSATWV/status/854713781053779969

PP South Atlantic WV‏Verified account @PPSATWV

Thank you for standing with Planned Parenthood, @Sen_JoeManchin! #StandWithPP

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I'm sometimes somewhat curious... why some "single issue" pandering to some certain groups for the unproven marginal gains is okay. And in the process basically screw over reliable constituencies.

But it's not okay to, for instance, pander to (or really even accept into the tent, without even needing any pandering to) a voter that agrees on all of the silly social justice warrior issues but doesn't necessarily want the socialist utopia, or abhor all things business.

But then I remember that none of the former affects white ostensibly liberal men.

Aren't you basically describring Ossoff's whole campaign? I haven't really seen anyone mad about him other than the one Bernie comment.

 

[whyamihere]

I realized how precisely I remember the 2012 election night. And how I haven't had a good election since.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I realized how precisely I remember the 2012 election night. And how I haven't had a good election since.

2018/2020 had better both be knockout punches for the Democrats. I expected 2014 to be bad, but 2016 made me want to drink bleach.

 

[chadskin]

 

[sazzy]

Two more arrested in Michigan in first FGM prosecution in US

...

"This is part of the culture," defence lawyer Shannon Thompson told a judge on Monday at a bond hearing for Ms Nagarwala.

FGM = Female Genital Mutilation

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39662450

Absolutely abhorrent defence by their lawyer.

 

[Chumley]

I know opinions about Maher are mixed here, but I think the 10:00 min mark here on last night's overtime segment speaks to what a lot here have been saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9RlQ09PdnI

Democrats are too nice. These people, the Republicans, are like - you know what, if you're going to bring a knife to a gunfight, fine. We'll fucking shoot them in the head. ... They cheat, that's how they win, they cheat. They're cheaters.