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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Testifying under oath about the contents of the memos is a big deal.
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Right, but I think people are waiting for him to drop some massive bombshell of new, unknown information and I don't see that happening.
 
H

Hindl

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
So I think it's obvious the GOP would have publicly jumped off the Trump train to a greater extent had the rumored "n-word tape" been leaked instead of the Access Hollywood tape, but am I alone in thinking his popular vote total probably would not have been THAT much more adversely affected by it than by the tape we got? Would that have been more of a line for his potential voters than "grab'em by the pussy", or would they make the exact same excuses for it?
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I think it would've hurt him more. The sexist comments were horrible, but there are plenty of people in America that don't care about it. The whole "locker room talk" is something I think a lot of white middle Americans would agree with. Talking about women like pieces of meat and having that old school ideal of the rich and powerful guy that takes whatever woman he wants is pretty common I think. I've heard plenty of people talk about women like that in conversation, and I don't think any of them consider themselves sexist.

Whereas with the n-word, there's no way to sugarcoat that or spin it. That's flat out racism. We've seen it before, person who does continually racist things gets defended and it's spun as "tough on crime" or "tough on immigration" or whatever. But the second they say the N-word there's no defending that. There's no reason to use that word unless you're trying to be a racist POS. It would've certainly emboldened his racist supporters, but it would've steered away a lot of the fence sitters
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Plinko said:
Right, but I think people are waiting for him to drop some massive bombshell of new, unknown information and I don't see that happening.
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He used leaks to force this hearing in the first place. There is no reason for him even speak at this thing unless he has something to say.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Hindl said:
Whereas with the n-word, there's no way to sugarcoat that or spin it. That's flat out racism. We've seen it before, person who does continually racist things gets defended and it's spun as "tough on crime" or "tough on immigration" or whatever. But the second they say the N-word there's no defending that. There's no reason to use that word unless you're trying to be a racist POS. It would've certainly emboldened his racist supporters, but it would've steered away a lot of the fence sitters
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"Rappers and blacks say it all the time. President Obama has said it before and invited rappers to the White House who have said it before" would be the excuse.

There are recordings of Fred and Donald making very ugly, racist comments on black people. Completely separate from the Access Hollywood stuff. I don't understand why nothing came out but here we are. And apparently the Access Hollywood stuff may never come out due to legal fuckery. We'll see.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Dems:

Support: 8
Oppose: 82

I:

Support: 22
Oppose: 63

GOP:

Support: 67
Oppose: 25

US Leadership in the world:

Help: 18
Hurt: 55

Int'l efforts to address climate change:

Help: 11
Hurt: 52

US economy:

Help: 32
Hurt: 42
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
The n-word tapes probably wouldn't have had much more of an effect than the bus-tape honestly.

First off a huge portion of Trump voters actively admit all the bad things about Trump but voted for him anyway because they fell for all the ridiculous antihillary bullshit.

Second, by the time the bus tape came out, Trump's fanbase had already become fully radicalized into a fanbase that would literally jump off a cliff if Trump told them too. And the simple fact is that part of the reason Trump won and the GOP did so well was because this fanbase turned out in ridiculously high numbers last year due to being highly energized.

Finally, Trump had already been caught making comments that republicans had to explicitly say were blatantly racist (the judge curiel comments), so another racist comment wouldn't make a difference.


Sadly the only thing the n-word tape would have done was encourage more Trump supporters to just actively use the n-word on camera.

ShadowSwordmaster said:
Would you look at that.
Post-ABC poll: Nearly 6 in 10 oppose Trump scrapping Paris agreement

Trump fucked up so bad.
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Like I said, Trump's decision was dumb because literally the only people that liked it were his diehard fanbase, coal country, and oil industries. literally everyone else was either neutral or pro-cliamte-agreement.
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Plinko said:
I feel as if people are hyping this Comey thing way too much. He probably won't reveal much of anything due to ongoing investigation.
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If he's unable to comment on the memo, then that confirms Mueller is investigating Trump for crimes committed after the inauguration, which is a pretty big deal.
 
A

androvsky

Member
BlastProcessing said:
He used leaks to force this hearing in the first place. There is no reason for him even speak at this thing unless he has something to say.
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The leaks are just reports in newspapers, having just what was leaked to papers by Comey's friends on the record under oath from Comey himself in front of Congress would be a major step forward even if there's no new information.
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
Wait Trump's at just 67% approval among the GOP now? Isn't that basically "we gotta throw him under the bus now" territory for Ryan and his ilk?
 
T

Teggy

Member
Trump didn't think it was a good idea, he didn't think about it all. He doesn't understand it and was pissed off that Macron gave him a hard handshake.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
I wonder how green collar work would fit in with a job guarantee. I know one of the suggested ideas for "helpful but not required 100% of the time" jobs is planting trees. I looked through the CAP proposal for it but no mentions of green collar jobs.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
TestOfTide said:
The n-word tapes probably wouldn't have had much more of an effect than the bus-tape honestly.

First off a huge portion of Trump voters actively admit all the bad things about Trump but voted for him anyway because they fell for all the ridiculous antihillary bullshit.

Second, by the time the bus tape came out, Trump's fanbase had already become fully radicalized into a fanbase that would literally jump off a cliff if Trump told them too. And the simple fact is that part of the reason Trump won and the GOP did so well was because this fanbase turned out in ridiculously high numbers last year due to being highly energized.

Finally, Trump had already been caught making comments that republicans had to explicitly say were blatantly racist (the judge curiel comments), so another racist comment wouldn't make a difference.

Sadly the only thing the n-word tape would have done was encourage more Trump supporters to just actively use the n-word on camera.



Like I said, Trump's decision was dumb because literally the only people that liked it were his diehard fanbase, coal country, and oil industries. literally everyone else was either neutral or pro-cliamte-agreement.
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I don't recall Trump ever explicitly said any racial slurs to the judge, although his statements were very racist, but it wasn't as explicit as calling black people the n-word. If Trump said the n-word when talking about black people, and not in the way Obama did of course I think it would have been worse.

Obvious racism is harder to defend even with excuses. To a lot of people his statements weren't that racist, but everyone knows say the n-word = racism.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
BoogieWoogie said:
Wait Trump's at just 67% approval among the GOP now? Isn't that basically "we gotta throw him under the bus now" territory for Ryan and his ilk?
Click to expand...

No it's only 67% of the GOP approve of leaving the Paris agreement.

Like I said, it's because there are literally only 3 groups that liked this decision:

1) Trump's diehards

2) Coal Country

3) Oil Industry

Everyone else was either neutral or in favor of the climate deal, with a lot of those neutrals leaning towards the climate deal anyway.

Abinash117 said:
I don't recall Trump ever explicitly said any racial slurs to the judge, although his statements were very racist, but it wasn't as explicit as calling black people the n-word. If Trump said the n-word when talking about black people, and not in the way Obama did of course I think it would have been worse.

Obvious racism is harder to defend even with excuses. To a lot of people his statements weren't that racist, but everyone knows say the n-word = racism.
Click to expand...

Paul Ryan literally had a conference where he said "That was the textbook definition of a racist comment" with regards to Trump's Curiel comments.
 
C

catbird

Neo Member
Sharpeye said:
So NJ is having our governor primaries tomorrow. Phil Murphy and Kim Guadagno seemed to be the likely Democratic and Republican nominees respectively. Not really that all exciting as most folks seemed to be unaware that it happens tomorrow.
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I'm voting for Johnson. I'm in a progressive women's group and we're hoping to pull our votes together for either Wisniewski or Johnson. So far it seems like Johnson is the preferred Murphy-alternative even though it's pretty close.

I just hope people turnout in general. I guess this is where I should post a PSA: if you are a registered voter in NJ, you can still vote in the primary if you are independent/unaffiliated!
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
TestOfTide said:
No it's only 67% of the GOP approve of leaving the Paris agreement.

Like I said, it's because there are literally only 3 groups that liked this decision:

1) Trump's diehards

2) Coal Country

3) Oil Industry

Everyone else was either neutral or in favor of the climate deal, with a lot of those neutrals leaning towards the climate deal anyway.



Paul Ryan literally had a conference where he said "That was the textbook definition of a racist comment" with regards to Trump's Curiel comments.
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Not even the oil industry, at least not the larger firms.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
TestOfTide said:
No it's only 67% of the GOP approve of leaving the Paris agreement.

Like I said, it's because there are literally only 3 groups that liked this decision:

1) Trump's diehards

2) Coal Country

3) Oil Industry

Everyone else was either neutral or in favor of the climate deal, with a lot of those neutrals leaning towards the climate deal anyway.
Click to expand...

A lot of the larger oil firms have started investing in renewables in recent years, I can't imagine they're happy about this either.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
TestOfTide said:
No it's only 67% of the GOP approve of leaving the Paris agreement.

Like I said, it's because there are literally only 3 groups that liked this decision:

1) Trump's diehards

2) Coal Country

3) Oil Industry

Everyone else was either neutral or in favor of the climate deal, with a lot of those neutrals leaning towards the climate deal anyway.



Paul Ryan literally had a conference where he said "That was the textbook definition of a racist comment" with regards to Trump's Curiel comments.
Click to expand...

I remember that, but again I think it is much easier to handwave Trump's statements because as long as you can say something racist in not so clear way you can get away with it. Like what happened when he said about Mexican and rapists.

Also it was for Paul Ryan to be against Trump then not now. If Trump said similar things like that now it would be brushed aside by Republicans, but if was more blatant and Trump called the judge the racial slur for Mexicans it'll be a little bit more different even if he made excuse like misspoke or something. Also I don't think many GOP voters cares about what Paul Ryan thought.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
You: We shouldn't run on the Paris Accord and clean energy
Me: wE sHoUlDn'T rUn On ThE PaRiS aCcOrD aNd ClEaN eNeRgY

aB5b5R4.jpg


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-worried-about-trump/?utm_term=.6c53fde60fa8

CHARLOTTE, North Carolina — Mike Catanzaro, a solar panel installer with a high school diploma, likes to work with his hands under the clear Carolina sky. That’s why he supported President Trump, (My note: LOL WHAT) a defender of blue-collar workers. But the 25-year-old sees Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement as a threat to his job.

“I’m a little nervous about it. The solar business is blowing up and that’s great for a lot of people around here,” Catanzaro said, just after switching on an 86-panel array atop a brick apartment building.

“I was in favor of Trump, which I might regret now,” he said. “I just don’t want solar to go down the wrong path.”

While some employed in particular industries have celebrated the U.S. exit from the Paris agreement, the responses of workers such as Calanzaro add a considerable wrinkle to Trump’s promises that scrapping the accords could save millions of people “trapped in poverty and joblessness.”

The more complicated truth, experts say, is that while there could well be some winners — such as workers in the coal industry — their numbers will pale in comparison to the demand for workers in industries preparing the U.S. and other countries for a clean energy future.

About 370,000 people work for solar companies in the United States, with the majority of them employed in installations, according to the Department of Energy. More than 9,500 solar jobs have cropped up in North Carolina alone, the study found.

That’s more than natural gas (2,181), coal (2,115) and oil generation (480) combined.
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The solar installer said he is earning enough to rent a four-bedroom house for his wife and three children, and is hoping to save up enough to pursue his electrician’s license. That will open up a more lucrative path in the solar field, he said.

Summer, meanwhile, is overtime season — “the top of the solar coaster,” as he says — and Catanzaro said he hopes to work at least 50 hours per week until fall.

Chris Verner, co-founder of Accelerate Solar and Catanzaro’s employer, got his start as a college student in Vermont, setting up a business after graduation that took advantage of green energy rebates under an Obama-era stimulus package.

He moved to North Carolina five years ago to launch Accelerate Solar with $3,000. The company’s sales last year hit $5.2 million, Verner said.

He said he is hoping to double his 20-person installation team this year.

Verner’s experience reflects the growth of the solar industry across the United States, fueled by Obama-era policies adopted in support of the administration’s emissions reductions goals under the Paris climate agreement.

An analysis last year from the Solar Foundation found solar jobs in the U.S. have jumped at least 20 percent annually every year since 2012.

Trump rolling back environmental policies won’t stop the spread of renewable energy, said Mark Muro, an economics scholar at the Brookings institution.

“Renewables growth is inevitable,” he said. But Muro added: “Trump’s rhetoric certainly won’t help it as it creates uncertainty.”
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The president said complying with the Paris agreement would cost up to 2.7 million jobs by 2025, citing a study from the National Economic Research Associates, which was funded by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Council for Capital Formation, both of which opposed the deal.

Trump did not account for jobs that would be created as a result of the transition to a clean energy economy.

Economists say coal jobs started declining decades ago as natural gas got cheaper, thanks to the rise of fracking and horizontal drilling. Electricity companies began shutting down coal-powered plants and switching to natural gas, further driving down the demand for coal.
Click to expand...

Joel Hart, an installer for Accelerate Solar, said he is grateful for finding a job after returning home to Albany, New York following his time in the Marines and deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq .

“I went from being told I was America’s finest, a U.S. marine,” he said, “to you don’t have any experience so we’re not hiring you.”

Solar, he said, could be his generation’s ticket to the middle class.

“Every generation has a trade,” said Hart, 28. “It used to be the steelworkers. The coal miners. Now this can give us the best job security.”
Click to expand...
 
T

Teggy

Member
What's the difference between favorabilty (44) and job approval (37)? Is this basically people who say, "he's a shit president but I'd love to have a beer with him"?
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Abinash117 said:
I remember that, but again I think it is much easier to handwave Trump's statements because as long as you can say something racist in not so clear way you can get away with it. Like what happened when he said about Mexican and rapists.
Click to expand...

Except the judge Curiel comments had no ambiguity to them. They were so blatantly racist that they were universally condemned. Trump literally argued that because the Judge was of Mexican heritage he was not fit to judge Trump.

Also it was for Paul Ryan to be against Trump then not now. If Trump said similar things like that now it would be brushed aside by Republicans, but if was more blatant and Trump called the judge the racial slur for Mexicans it'll be a little bit more different even if he made excuse like misspoke or something. Also I don't think many GOP voters cares about what Paul Ryan thought.
Click to expand...

Well yes, the n-word tape would have no effect if it came out now. We already know that. But I am saying that if it came out around the same time as the bus tape it wouldn't have had an effect because Trump was already caught making blatantly racist comments.

Reread my list on why the n-word tape wouldn't have changed things pre-election.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05...ian-hacking-effort-days-before-2016-election/

TOP-SECRET NSA REPORT DETAILS RUSSIAN HACKING EFFORT DAYS BEFORE 2016 ELECTION

RUSSIAN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE executed a cyberattack on at least one U.S. voting software supplier and sent spear-phishing emails to more than 100 local election officials just days before last November’s presidential election, according to a highly classified intelligence report obtained by The Intercept.

The top-secret National Security Agency document, which was provided anonymously to The Intercept and independently authenticated, analyzes intelligence very recently acquired by the agency about a months-long Russian intelligence cyber effort against elements of the U.S. election and voting infrastructure. The report, dated May 5, 2017, is the most detailed U.S. government account of Russian interference in the election that has yet come to light.

Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate actors … executed cyber espionage operations against a named U.S. company in August 2016, evidently to obtain information on elections-related software and hardware solutions. … The actors likely used data obtained from that operation to … launch a voter registration-themed spear-phishing campaign targeting U.S. local government organizations.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Teggy said:
What's the difference between favorabilty (44) and job approval (37)? Is this basically people who say, "he's a shit president but I'd love to have a beer with him"?
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Favorability's probably closer to his voting number, because, again, approval can get skunked by people who would vote for you but think you don't go far enough.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Republicans will no doubt try to box Comey in under perjury when he said the administration did not try to pressure him to shut down the investigation. I wonder what his reasonong will be.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
TestOfTide said:
Except there is precedent before for intent of the law to be used in a ruling. Intent is what saved the ACA from being killed by a miswording if I recall correctly.
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It is widely held belief that Roberts was going to side with conservatives to strike down ACA, even started writing opinion for it and then whatever happened during the summer break, pressure from wherever caused him to uphold it but under taxation clause and not commerce clause.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
RustyNails said:
Republicans will no doubt try to box Comey in under perjury when he said the administration did not try to pressure him to shut down the investigation. I wonder what his reasonong will be.
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You're doing a disservice by fucking up the context of the question entirely. The question clearly asked about anyone at DoJ.
 
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