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[Plinko]

Think about it. Harder.

Because it doesn't matter?

There is one in the House, I think? Same Rep has made it for years. And Bernie was working on one.

It's not a "Democratic bill," though, because the Democratic Party likely doesn't support that at this time. (key words being "at this time")

Sorry--"crafted" was the wrong word. I meant "publicly pushed." They need to unite behind something like this. Make it part of their brand. Shout it to the mountaintops regularly. Frequently tell people they'd be much better off with something like this and detail why.

 

[nintendoman58]

Can I just really make a statement here on how much I can't stand the line of reasoning that is: "We're in bizarro world now, nothing goes our way"?

I went through Hooligan's post history and holy crap, this is just insane.

Yes, something unexpected happened and an election we thought was an easy win for us turned out to be a win for them. This alone does not suddenly invalidate hundreds of years of facts, trends, and analytics as nothing!

The GOP and Trump aren't some amorphous blob that can get everything they want because of "reasons".

The constant screaming of "WE'RE FUCKED EVERYTHING'S SCREWED NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS ANYMORE" is just nothing more than angry venting or trying to push ones nihilistic view of life onto others. Yeah, it's infuriating at what's been going on, but that anger needs to be turned into more action.

Don't just toss some shade out among the lines of: "Oh but Dems never turnout, too much infighting, they'll blame it on us, etc." because that does absolutely nothing to help. It only casts doubt upon our allies, and doubt is not what we need.

What we need is more concentrated action and organization, which we are already seeing if you look at how the Kansas and Georgia special elections went down. Dems didn't win those, sure. But those were fairly close races in red states.

If we we're in "bizarro world" and all trends and facts from the past didn't matter, Dems would have been completely annihilated in those races rather than come close at all.

We're seeing results. So don't give up.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Sorry--"crafted" was the wrong word. I meant "publicly pushed." They need to unite behind something like this. Make it part of their brand. Shout it to the mountaintops regularly. Frequently tell people they'd be much better off with something like this and detail why.

Well there is this https://twitter.com/RepJohnConyers/status/860206607577362433

John Conyers, Jr. @RepJohnConyers
1h
Here is my statement on the passage of #TrumpCare. I will continue to fight for #MedicareForAll. Will you?

Spoiler

look at this class only brocialist smh

Also I have a fairly uncharitable view of Hillary but that thread is a cesspool jeez

 

[Plinko]

Also I have a fairly uncharitable view of Hillary but that thread is a cesspool jeez

Just mentioning her name is like blowing the dog whistle for Berniecrats.

 

[The Technomancer]

Also I have a fairly uncharitable view of Hillary but that thread is a cesspool jeez

Yeah seeing that everywhere is basically why I'm testy and on edge literally all the time these days

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well there is this https://twitter.com/RepJohnConyers/status/860206607577362433

Spoiler

look at this class only brocialist smh

Also I have a fairly uncharitable view of Hillary but that thread is a cesspool jeez

They want her to keep all her money so she conforms to their warped view of her as the greediest of the greedy.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Sorry--"crafted" was the wrong word. I meant "publicly pushed." They need to unite behind something like this. Make it part of their brand. Shout it to the mountaintops regularly. Frequently tell people they'd be much better off with something like this and detail why.

I agree, but don't know how many Democratic members of Congress support it. I expect the number to increase, though.

 

[BobTheFork]

Pulling back politically, wouldn't it be a good thing if people were happy?

Regardless it's hard to see how that happens if the bill fails in the Senate. It's not like Trump is going to get on stage and say he reformed the healthcare system. He is a petty man and will probably still be railing on dems and republicans for blocking it

NO!

I don't want people to be happy with Shit. I want them to be miserable while not understanding they are better taken care of.

 

[jtb]

I think a public option is better politics and policy than Medicare for All. There's really no reason why we shouldn't pass a public option the first moment Dems have control of the house again, whenever that may be, imo

 

[VendettaRed07]

If the ACA survives a Trump presidency with all three branches it is a testiment to the bill's strength and we shouldn't totally up end it and start over with Medicare for all

Just further refine the ACA and further ingrain it into our system

 

[Zukkoyaki]

From @Taniel

California has 14 GOP House members. All voted for AHCA.

7 in Clinton districts—Denham, Valadao, Knight, Royce, Walters, Rohrabacher, Issa.

Ousting AHCA-supporting California Republicans sitting in Clinton districts gets Democrats 30% of the way to a House majority.

Interesting

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Yeah seeing that everywhere is basically why I'm testy and on edge literally all the time these days

They want her to keep all her money so she conforms to their warped view of her as the greediest of the greedy.

Like I get kind of hating her, her fucking up is why we have Trump (along with a million other things yadda yadda) but I don't get why this specific action elicits so much venom. People should save it for "actually I do think Trump is right about bombing the hell out of Syria" instead of this.

I agree, but don't know how many Democratic members of Congress support it. I expect the number to increase, though.

I *think* the Conyers' bill has 108 cosponsors but I can't find the most recent count on it.

 

[Plinko]

From @Taniel



Interesting

This is the math I like to see.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

If the ACA survives a Trump presidency with all three branches it is a testiment to the bill's strength and we shouldn't totally up end it and start over with Medicare for all

Just further refine the ACA and further ingrain it into our system

WhyNotBoth.jpg

Messaging should be divorced from the bill. We should scream Medicare for All and then pass whatever we can pass. I agree that a public option would be easier and honestly, even enough (set it so everyone under 100K a year or something gets it and everyone above that can buy in if they want; something like that).

But don't let the message get down in the weeds.

 

[Chumley]

I live in Issa's district and everyone fucking hates him here. If he's not gone next election hell has truly frozen over.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

So I'm guessing Drumpf finally got it thru his thick skull to send Pence, who made it his thing back in his House days, to be Good Cop? Kinda sucks he didn't pigheadedly ArtoftheDealing up another failure again.

In other news.

@RepAdamSchiff


Just finished closed hearing with FBI Director Comey and NSA Director Rogers. Good opportunity for our follow up. Here are next steps:

Some good news it seems. He doesn't sound like it went badly either; perhaps Frum is righter on Schiff than he realizes?

 

[wandering]

From @Taniel



Interesting

Purge them.

I'm actually a little disappointed that Dave Reichert of WA-8 didn't vote yes, as he's also in a Clinton district and would've been ripe for the picking.

Although with his waffling about up until the vote he might just have pissed off enough people anyway.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This celebration is like the best script for a campaign ad.

After voting to strip 25 million people of health insurance, they went and had a party. Those are some nice optics!

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Like I get kind of hating her, her fucking up is why we have Trump (along with a million other things yadda yadda) but I don't get why this specific action elicits so much venom. People should save it for "actually I do think Trump is right about bombing the hell out of Syria" instead of this.

I *think* the Conyers' bill has 108 cosponsors but I can't find the most recent count on it.

I mean, it's certainly because she's a woman. We've had losers before, but if I had to name the top Dems that people have insane vitriol for, it's Hillary and Pelosi. Wonder why.

 

[Ernest]

Christopher Hayes:

Weirdly we're having a very hard time finding a GOP lawmaker to come on tonight to defend the healthcare bill.

 

[kirblar]

Sorry--"crafted" was the wrong word. I meant "publicly pushed." They need to unite behind something like this. Make it part of their brand. Shout it to the mountaintops regularly. Frequently tell people they'd be much better off with something like this and detail why.

Again, think. How do most people get their health care who are of working age?

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

imo the best road to single payer other than just passing it (my favorite option) is to just give it to everyone under 18 so they're really pissed to lose it as soon as they gain the right to vote.

This was actually part of the Great Society plans after Medicare and Medicaid got passed but then Nixon got elected so they never passed it.

 

[studyguy]

Yates testifies tomorrow guys, remember.

 

[smokeymicpot]

So I'm guessing Drumpf finally got it thru his thick skull to send Pence, who made it his thing back in his House days, to be Good Cop? Kinda sucks he didn't pigheadedly ArtoftheDealing up another failure again.



Some good news it seems. He doesn't sound like it went badly either; perhaps Frum is righter on Schiff than he realizes?

Hope those open hearings come sooner then later. That month of nothing sucked.

 

[jtb]

Purge them.

I'm actually a little disappointed that Dave Reichert of WA-8 didn't vote yes, as he's also in a Clinton district and would've been ripe for the picking.

Although with his waffling about up until the vote he might just have pissed off enough people anyway.

I'm kinda surprised Reichert has managed to hold on all these years. I think every election since 2000 the district has voted for the Democrat president. People really love buying into the whole checks and balances and "both sidezzz moderates."

Also, fucking terrible candidates. Can't forget those.

 

[Hindl]

Yates testifies tomorrow guys, remember.

I thought that was Monday

 

[smokeymicpot]

I thought that was Monday

The 8th I think thats Monday.

 

[whyamihere]

Again, think. How do most people get their health care who are of working age?

We know you don't like single payer!

 

[Tarydax]

The notion that some people have that Hillary's new PAC will be all about raising money for Chelsea 2020 is so fucking stupid it almost manages to be funny.

 

[whyamihere]

Oh man, Dave Wasserman is the worst.

 

[jtb]

Oh man, Dave Wasserman is the worst.

Yeah.

Also, they had him on the podcast. Which makes this gloating even more ridiculous.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Oh man, Dave Wasserman is the worst.

what the fuck

 

[Chris R]

Christopher Hayes:

Don't want to show up on TV drunk off their asses from two bud lights

 

[kirblar]

We know you don't like single payer.

This is about more than my personal preferences. This is about "Dems are going to take your healthcare and replacement with big guv'ment instead" being something you don't want to have to run against in a contested election. "Medicare for all" reads well if you don't have health insurance. It reads much less well if you already have health insurance, have been normalized to expect that health insurance comes with employment, and think your current insurance is better than what you'd get out of the government.

I'm all for UHC. I'm all for getting off of our insane employment-based system that no other country in the world was stupid enough to implement. It's just that when the public reacts to baby steps in that direction like you're going to nuke Iowa, I don't want to see what the reactionary response to a giant leap off a cliff would look like.

 

[Grexeno]

"Elections have consequences" is for Trump voters, non-voters, and third-party voters, Dave.

 

[wandering]

I'm kinda surprised Reichert has managed to hold on all these years. I think every election since 2000 the district has voted for the Democrat president. People really love buying into the whole checks and balances and "both sidezzz moderates."

Also, fucking terrible candidates. Can't forget those.

Every election since 1992, actually. Washington's weird.

 

[Plinko]

Again, think. How do most people get their health care who are of working age?

Starting everything with "think" and "think harder" comes off extremely poorly.

 

[VendettaRed07]

The notion that some people have that Hillary's new PAC will be all about raising money for Chelsea 2020 is so fucking stupid it almost manages to be funny.

Bonen posted as a joke and people actually ran with it

Posting about politics outside of this thread is a bad idea I think

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm all for UHC. I'm all for getting off of our insane employment-based system that no other country in the world was stupid enough to implement. It's just that when the public reacts to baby steps in that direction like you're going to nuke Iowa, I don't want to see what the reactionary response to a giant leap off a cliff would look like.

This is what I keep coming back to as well. We know what the response to milquetoast healthcare reform in the US looks like in the form of the ACA. Its not pretty. People lost their fucking minds

 

[Deleted member 231381]

imo the best road to single payer other than just passing it (my favorite option) is to just give it to everyone under 18 so they're really pissed to lose it as soon as they gain the right to vote.

This was actually part of the Great Society plans after Medicare and Medicaid got passed but then Nixon got elected so they never passed it.

You forget there's nothing old people like more than complaining about how good young people have it; the healthcare system would be thrown out overnight.

 

[kirblar]

Starting everything with "think" and "think harder" comes off extremely poorly.

I'm trying to make the point that there's something major you're not considering here (while on mobile.) Wasn't trying to belittle you.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

You forget there's nothing old people like more than complaining about how good young people have it; the healthcare system would be thrown out overnight.

promise old people that you'll double their social security checks if they shut the fuck up about it

idk just spend lots of money and raise the top marginal tax rate back to 90%

also ban cars

 

[smokeymicpot]

The notion that some people have that Hillary's new PAC will be all about raising money for Chelsea 2020 is so fucking stupid it almost manages to be funny.

Not surprised people think that way honestly.

 

[Plinko]

I'm trying to make the point that there's something major you're not considering here (while on mobile.) Wasn't trying to belittle you.

Understood. I understand what you are getting at with employer-based healthcare. I do think, thoug, that with effective branding, it could be successfully marketed as a proper replacement for such.

 

[whyamihere]

This is about more than my personal preferences. This is about "Dems are going to take your healthcare and replacement with big guv'ment instead" being something you don't want to have to run against in a contested election. "Medicare for all" reads well if you don't have health insurance. It reads much less well if you already have health insurance, have been normalized to expect that health insurance comes with employment, and think your current insurance is better than what you'd get out of the government.

I'm all for UHC. I'm all for getting off of our insane employment-based system that no other country in the world was stupid enough to implement. It's just that when the public reacts to baby steps in that direction like you're going to nuke Iowa, I don't want to see what the reactionary response to a giant leap off a cliff would look like.

When you keep telling people "think" when there's a legitimate policy discussion on single-payer is extremely dismissive.

 

[Debirudog]

I mean, it's certainly because she's a woman. We've had losers before, but if I had to name the top Dems that people have insane vitriol for, it's Hillary and Pelosi. Wonder why.

The Pelosi hate is just even dumber to me.

 

[jtb]

If there's one thing that our democracy has made very clear, it's that people hate collective sacrifice for the greater good.

There's a ton of political will for single payer for the people it would clearly benefit (which is fine, because that's how politics usually works). What happens once you tap out that base? Let's face it, there are plenty of people (not the 1%ers) who are doing just fine - raising their beautiful suburban families and not interested in upsetting the apple cart. They don't want to spend a penny of "their child's" money on some dirty poors.

I dunno. I have a hard time envisioning it. Maybe there's an enthusiasm gap that can be exploited for the Democrats, but, again, I think an opt-in is such a no-brainer political win that's much more difficult to use as a political weapon.

 

[VendettaRed07]

You forget there's nothing old people like more than complaining about how good young people have it; the healthcare system would be thrown out overnight.

Basically.

No one likes children. Children cannot vote. Also implementing a rule that they lose it at a certain age so they vote for you doesn't really work either.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

promise old people that you'll double their social security checks if they shut the fuck up about it

idk just spend lots of money and raise the top marginal tax rate back to 90%

also ban cars

first you're spending lots of money, the next moment you're leading the party of the revolutionary vanguard and installing the dictatorship of the proletariat

it was inevitable

 

[pigeon]

I'm just hoping the Republicans eliminate the employer-provided health care tax break this year as part of their relentless drive to destroy everything.