Support NeoGAF

[Fenderputty]

I'm just hoping the Republicans eliminate the employer-provided health care tax break this year as part of their relentless drive to destroy everything.

Even though this could potentially hurt me, so am I

 

[kirblar]

When you keep telling people "think" when there's a legitimate policy discussion on single-payer is extremely dismissive.

a) again was on mobile, wasn't trying to be dismissive

b) this specific discussion isn't about policy merits, it's about winning elections. "Why aren't we running on Medicare for All?" was the question, and the answer has to do with the fact that we don't think swing voters are going to react well to that. People who have jobs already, have insurance, and see this as how things are supposed to be are a roadblock to getting the system changed. So are old people who don't want other people getting access to Medicare.

If there's one thing that our democracy has made very clear, it's that people hate collective sacrifice for the greater good.

There's a ton of political will for single payer for the people it would clearly benefit (which is fine, because that's how politics usually works). What happens once you tap out that base? Let's face it, there are plenty of people (not the 1%ers) who are doing just fine - raising their beautiful suburban families and not interested in upsetting the apple cart. They don't want to spend a penny of "their child's" money on some dirty poors.

I dunno. I have a hard time envisioning it. Maybe there's an enthusiasm gap that can be exploited for the Democrats, but, again, I think an opt-in is such a no-brainer political win that's much more difficult to use as a political weapon.

I don't think it's an accident that the one time we did get a major systemic change in US policy (FDR) it came alongside discriminatory policies and Japanese internment.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

imo the best road to single payer other than just passing it (my favorite option) is to just give it to everyone under 18 so they're really pissed to lose it as soon as they gain the right to vote.

This was actually part of the Great Society plans after Medicare and Medicaid got passed but then Nixon got elected so they never passed it.

I agree. I recall thinking it was the most compelling aspect of John Edwards's presidential run at the time.

 

[jtb]

a) again was on mobile, wasn't trying to be dismissive

b) this specific discussion isn't about policy merits, it's about winning elections. "Why aren't we running on Medicare for All?" was the question, and the answer has to do with the fact that we don't think swing voters are going to react well to that. People who have jobs already, have insurance, and see this as how things are supposed to be are a roadblock to getting the system changed. So are old people who don't want other people getting access to Medicare.

I don't think it's an accident that the one time we did get a major systemic change in US policy (FDR) it came alongside discriminatory policies and Japanese internment.

Completely agree. Racists were a key component of the New Deal coalition. That's not an accident.

Also, for fuck's sake, we can't even get a half-decent estate tax going in this country without crazy fearmongering and pearl clutching. And that's even when they know they'll be dead!

 

[Armaros]

Completely agree. Racists were a key component of the New Deal coalition. That's not an accident.

Also, for fuck's sake, we can't even get a half-decent estate tax going in this country without crazy fearmongering and pearl clutching. And that's even when they know they'll be dead!

The new deal would have been DOA if white people knew it would include have included minorties later.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The Pelosi hate is just even dumber to me.

The only way it makes sense is sexism. She's been one of the most effective Speakers either party has had in ages.

I dunno. I have a hard time envisioning it. Maybe there's an enthusiasm gap that can be exploited for the Democrats, but, again, I think an opt-in is such a no-brainer political win that's much more difficult to use as a political weapon.

Yeah, the point in public should be Medicare for All, but privately I think we should push a public option that's basically too good to pass up. If the average American can say "yes I have government healthcare but I chose it, no one made me do it" then it's a much easier sell.

 

[Kastrioti]

Does Mike Pence have a soul?

I have never in my life seen a more vapid politician. Everything about him, his mannerisms, voice etc. just seems so robotic. Like he's been training his whole life to be a politician.

This is the case with most politicians but something about Pence is different. Even Dan Quayle seemed like he had some sort of a personality.

 

[jtb]

The house democrats are terrible at messaging though. That singing shit they pulled today was so fucking tone deaf it was absurd.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Does Mike Pence have a soul?

I have never in my life seen a more vapid politician. Everything about him, his mannerisms, voice etc. just seems so robotic. Like he's been training his whole life to be a politician.

This is the case with most politicians but something about Pence is different. Even Dan Quayle seemed like he had some sort of a personality.

Mulan stole his soul after robbing his daughter's understanding of where her appropriate place is

 

[excelsiorlef]

Does Mike Pence have a soul?

I have never in my life seen a more vapid politician. Everything about him, his mannerisms, voice etc. just seems so robotic. Like he's been training his whole life to be a politician.

This is the case with most politicians but something about Pence is different. Even Dan Quayle seemed like he had some sort of a personality.

He's constantly trying to kill the X-Men... of course he has no soul

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I mean if we're saying "the New Deal" to just refer to Roosevelt's own policies then maybe

but there was like a big showing in 1948 where the Democrats explicitly told the Southern delegation to fuck off while they "walked into the sunshine of civil rights." Southerners responded by walking out and running their own candidate and the Democrats still won the presidency three times after that (and Eisenhower expanded New Deal programs and left unions alone and all that). The southern states already started leave like 20 years before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Literally the only Democrat after 1948 to consolidate the racist vote was Stevenson and he got dunked everywhere else.

Obviously not all racists were from southern states (and support for civil rights started to wane with affirmative action and FORCED BUSING!!!!) but I think the death of the New Deal coalition is more multifaceted than just racism.

 

[platypotamus]

Purge them.

I'm actually a little disappointed that Dave Reichert of WA-8 didn't vote yes, as he's also in a Clinton district and would've been ripe for the picking.

Although with his waffling about up until the vote he might just have pissed off enough people anyway.

I'm in the district next door, so I couldn't personally harangue him, but my sense of things is that he's going to have a hard go of it regardless. Not really sure how he won in the first place, but I didn't have the bandwidth to pay a ton of attention to his race

 

[whyamihere]

Yeah, the point in public should be Medicare for All, but privately I think we should push a public option that's basically too good to pass up. If the average American can say "yes I have government healthcare but I chose it, no one made me do it" then it's a much easier sell.

This will be the compromise if we get control of government and is a pretty good one IMO.

 

[kirblar]

This will be the compromise if we get control of government and is a pretty good one IMO.

I agree! It's what we should have had back in '09 if Obama and Reid had nuked the fillibuster.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Why should we publicly run on a platform that we're going to raise taxes by $16 trillion when in reality we just want to increase subsidies and government options.

... I do not see how the raises taxes by $16 trillion option would be more popular.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I'm cool w/ a public option as a transition towards single payer but I think the Democrats should be clear that that is the end goal of all this

 

[Ogodei]

Well there is this https://twitter.com/RepJohnConyers/status/860206607577362433

Spoiler

look at this class only brocialist smh

Also I have a fairly uncharitable view of Hillary but that thread is a cesspool jeez

I liked Hillary and dislike the Bernie bros, but i'm mad at her for having lost. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter, she let the country down when we needed her and needs to hide until her shame (Trump) is eliminated from the national stage.

 

[Suikoguy]

Can't the public option be Medicare?

 

[Plinko]

Does Mike Pence have a soul?

I have never in my life seen a more vapid politician. Everything about him, his mannerisms, voice etc. just seems so robotic. Like he's been training his whole life to be a politician.

This is the case with most politicians but something about Pence is different. Even Dan Quayle seemed like he had some sort of a personality.

He's like a male version of a Stepford wife.

 

[kirblar]

Can't the public option be Medicare?

I want to say we were going to let the states do it on a state by state basis in the final house bill but I could be misremembering. Both that and Medicare buy-in were on the table in negotiations.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I liked Hillary and dislike the Bernie bros, but i'm mad at her for having lost. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter, she let the country down when we needed her and needs to hide until her shame (Trump) is eliminated from the national stage.

More money for activists groups is better than less..

You don't get to just say I'm mad so I don't have to be rational...

 

[StopMakingSense]

He's like a male version of a Stepford wife.

And he like an oversmoothed PS2 era character model. Like Ocelot in MSG3.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Can't the public option be Medicare?

Yes, in fact this should be the only thing to push. It's already a well-liked program. Just give middle class people the ability to buy into it.

I'm cool w/ a public option as a transition towards single payer but I think the Democrats should be clear that that is the end goal of all this

The end goal should be a 100% insured population with adequate buy-in from all parties able to do so.

 

[RustyNails]

From @Taniel



Interesting

Good gooood.

I want to punch Pete Roskam in the dick. How did this mofo, whose district is about 20 miles from Chicago Downtown, vote in favor of AHCA. He's at least getting eaten on twitter.

 

[Barzul]

@mj_lee

Wolf: Did you read the health care bill?

Chris Collins: "I will fully admit, Wolf, I did not." @CNN

They never disappoint.

 

[Vestal]

They never disappoint.

Off course.

 

[Owzers]

They never disappoint.

I liked his reasoning that no one else read it either.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I liked Hillary and dislike the Bernie bros, but i'm mad at her for having lost. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter, she let the country down when we needed her and needs to hide until her shame (Trump) is eliminated from the national stage.

And what good would she be to anyone then? As long as she's not trying to make herself the face of the party (which it's not evident she is), let her do what she does best.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Man people hate Hillary. Its fucked up.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Getting money for progressive groups. What a bitch.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

She probably used a car to get there

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I liked Hillary and dislike the Bernie bros, but i'm mad at her for having lost. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter, she let the country down when we needed her and needs to hide until her shame (Trump) is eliminated from the national stage.

The country let her down, not the other way around

 

[Fenderputty]

Getting money for progressive groups. What a bitch.

We just need science to come up with a way for us to actually grow money on trees. Then it will be truly pure and free feom oligarch taint. it will have the added bonus of removing greenhouse gasses too

 

[Poodlestrike]

Oh man, Dave Wasserman is the worst.

What an utter jerkwad.

Sidenote, isn't it weird how Republican policy wonks never actually reach a point where being "cruel to be kind" becomes too cruel?

Funny, that.

 

[Slacker]

Yes votes on AHCA were 92% male.

 

[NeoXChaos]

The hate for Hillary is personal to some folks.

 

[Aaron Strife]

The hate for Hillary is personal to some folks.

It's like she shot someone on 5th Avenue.

 

[Blader]

You're going to see a lot of early retirements, too. Push one last hurrah out the door before leaving.

I mean, the logic makes sense. If you're going to lose your seat no matter what, you may as well do something you "believe" in.

In that sense, not that different from all the House Ds who knew they were going to go down in 2010 and voted to get the ACA done anyway.

 

[whyamihere]

I am very mad at Hillary for losing the most important election of my life, but if she wants to use her very good fundraising skills to raise money for solid progressive groups, more power to her.

 

[Poodlestrike]

The hate for Hillary is personal to some folks.

I swear to god, the only people who bought harder into the "Hillary is literally Satan" narrative spread by Fox & Co. than the left is the far right.

 

[metalslimer]

I swear to god, the only people who bought harder into the "Hillary is literally Satan" narrative spread by Fox & Co. than the left is the far right.

At points last year I questioned who hated her more.

I'm sick of people giving the populace that voted Trump in a free pass while bashing Hillary while at the same being mad at her for not doing more.

 

[The Technomancer]

I am very mad at Hillary for losing the most important election of my life, but if she wants to use her very good fundraising skills to raise money for solid progressive groups, more power to her.

Yeah assuming she's as hands off as it sounds I'm wracking my brain and I don't see how this hurts. Like I guess she could give money to "the wrong" orgs and people would be mad?

 

[jtb]

In that sense, not that different from all the House Ds who knew they were going to go down in 2010 and voted to get the ACA done anyway.

Exactly.

At points last year I questioned who hated her more.

I'm sick of people giving the populace that voted Trump in a free pass while bashing Hillary while at the same being mad at her for not doing more.

#NotAllWhitePeople #NotAllWhiteWorkingClass

 

[LostMyNarbles]

I can't figure out of "Employee offered healthcare" means government as well so I figured I would ask here. Will the AHCA affect healthcare of government employees who receive it through their job in any way? I'm talking largely about Police Officers and Fighter fighters when I mean government employees.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I liked Hillary and dislike the Bernie bros, but i'm mad at her for having lost. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter, she let the country down when we needed her and needs to hide until her shame (Trump) is eliminated from the national stage.

Maybe the real shame lies with the American voters who voted Trump in and still don't seem to have much remorse over the vote.

You can yell about Hillary Clinton all you want, but if Trump is fulfilling his voter's pledge, your only hope is to try and get the third party voters on board without losing any members of your base.

I'm not sure there's any way to do that at all.

Edit: Our best bet is to consolidate support in blue states and hope that can somehow lead to a majority in the House. Any way to gum up the works.

 

[jtb]

Maybe the real shame lies with the American voters who voted Trump in and still don't seem to have much remorse over the vote.

And yet the New York Times is still busy writing fawning portraits about them

 

[metalslimer]

Seriously Trump has done nothing for these people, his executive orders have failed, he will take their healthcare, and they currently don't give a fuck. I don't want to hear shit about these great people who voted for him. They can lose their Healthcare for all I give a shit. There's too much shit going on in the world for me to summon the empathy for them. I'm more hopeful to keep people energized especially the large amount that didn't vote

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Can't stand her but she has the money and clout to help some democrats so more power to her. That being said I'm not looking forward to the inevitable anger that will arise when [insert 2020 candidate] gives a speech at one of her events, or has a "meeting" with her during the primaries, etc.

 

[pigeon]

I can't figure out of "Employee offered healthcare" means government as well so I figured I would ask here. Will the AHCA affect healthcare of government employees who receive it through their job in any way? I'm talking largely about Police Officers and Fighter fighters when I mean government employees.

Yes.

Everybody who has healthcare at all could potentially lose their essential benefits requirements, meaning that things their plan currently covers would not be covered.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm not sure I follow the logic of making a disaster of a bill that passes the house and then they scrap it and "fix" it in the Senate.

Like... why not just pass around a post-it saying "Obamacare sux and we're repealing it" and then punt it off to the senate? It has the same end goal of originating in the house, as needed, without the stigma of being a bill that strips the insurance away from 25 million people and causes the elderly's rates to sky rocket.

This whole process seems self destructive, unnecessary, and just plain weird.