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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Finale Fireworker said:
This election froze us in time. It is a stake in the ground and we are all on leashes. We can only go so far from it, and when we reach the end up our rope, all we can do is run in circles.

This is what happens when people can't cope with what they thought was impossible. The election was a point of immense trauma for people. America is experiencing collective PTSD. It is the most generationally defining event in American history since 9/11.

People don't know how to move on. How can they? Lots of media and satire prepared is for an "Idiocracy" future. There were sitcoms and movies and TV shows that joked about a post-modern politics based on total degradation of reality in favor of dangerous cartoonery. But none of this media prepared us for what would come next. We are in territory uncharted even by fantasy.

This gripping fear of the modern unknown is what keeps people trapped in 2016. 2016 was the last time things made sense. People don't have the stomach to power through current day. Instead, they relentlessly pedal backwards with their gaze fixed on the last time they weren't afraid.

When this grips even the most passive progressive, and dominates their rhetoric, the right responds directly to it. This keeps the conversation stuck in the past. It also helps that the election was the big and triumphant argument that the right WON. So of course they will continue to milk it and reference it and cling to it for reassurance and validation. Why don't all these liberals fall in line? Don't they know they lost? Remember the election??
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I find myself in almost the exact opposite position. 2016 sort of doesn't exist in my head. I certainly can't bring myself to watch political coverage of any sort from it. I don't think about election night, or election season, or even what I personally was doing in the back half of the year. Its blanked out in my mind. What is before us is before us
 
M

Maengun1

Member
Plinko said:
This. They kept it silent for years and needed somebody like Trump to show them it was OK to go public with the racism/sexism. I feel like we regressed 25 years in a matter of months.
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Yep.

It actually blows my mind that 5 years ago I got as worried as I did - almost panicked after that first debate - at the thought of Mitt Romney becoming president. Like that would've been the worst thing imaginable.

What I would give to have someone putting out Romney level rhetoric from the white house right now
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Maengun1 said:
Yep.

It actually blows my mind that 5 years ago I got as worried as I did - almost panicked after that first debate - at the thought of Mitt Romney becoming president. Like that would've been the worst thing imaginable.

What I would give to have someone putting out Romney level rhetoric from the white house right now
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Does the left owe Mitt Romney an apology? He also warned you all about Russia.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Does the left owe Mitt Romney an apology? He also warned you all about Russia.
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We most certainly do. I didn't love Romney, but I was never afraid of the idea of President Romney, and he struck me as a guy that honestly did want to help people. Yea, he was a typical top down economics guy, but he was at least somewhat reasonable, and as you point out had a much greater understanding of foreign policy than anyone gave him credit for. It's a shame Trump is a petulant child, because Romney as Secretary of State would have been the smartest thing he could have ever done.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Romney was not particularly well intentioned I don't think. Insomuch as he would have been an okay president its literally only because he would not have been as destructive towards norms as Trump is
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Does the left owe Mitt Romney an apology? He also warned you all about Russia.
Click to expand...

"Thank you and important topic. And one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as Governor of my state. Because I had the chance to pull together a Cabinet, and all of the applicants seemed to be men. And I went to my staff and I said: "How come all of the people for these jobs are all men?" They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications." And I said: "Well gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified?" And we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our Cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks?" And they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet, and my senior staff, the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."
 
P

PBY

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Yeah if anyone who voted for Hillary fails the purity test we've got problems.
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I'm pretty sure they just support the other dude running. Fucked up situation if it went down as described, no one deserves that.


The other dude is a better candidate imo, but come on.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Mr.Mike said:
"Thank you and important topic. And one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as Governor of my state. Because I had the chance to pull together a Cabinet, and all of the applicants seemed to be men. And I went to my staff and I said: "How come all of the people for these jobs are all men?" They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications." And I said: "Well gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified?" And we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our Cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks?" And they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet, and my senior staff, the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."
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Trump really puts that gaffe into perspective.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Mr.Mike said:
"Thank you and important topic. And one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as Governor of my state. Because I had the chance to pull together a Cabinet, and all of the applicants seemed to be men. And I went to my staff and I said: "How come all of the people for these jobs are all men?" They said: "Well, these are the people that have the qualifications." And I said: "Well gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified?" And we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our Cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said: "Can you help us find folks?" And they brought us whole binders full of women. I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet, and my senior staff, the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America."
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I never took that quote as being degrading. Poorly worded, for sure. But his sentiment was that he went out of his way to diversify his cabinet by putting as many qualified women in leadership roles as he could. The soundbite was not good, but it definitely wasn't as bad as people made it out to be.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
I mean you kinda should... because if what he says is true ya know he wasn't kicked out for sucking.
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I mean like, it sounds pretty hard to believe? I strongly doubt that Randy Bryce didn't vote for Hillary and I am almost certain he's going to get the OR nod if he hasn't already. I'm skeptical it went down like that and I'd guess they didn't like him because he was an asshole, not because he voted for Hillary.
 
N

numble

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
I mean like, it sounds pretty hard to believe? I strongly doubt that Randy Bryce didn't vote for Hillary and I am almost certain he's going to get the OR nod if he hasn't already. I'm skeptical it went down like that and I'd guess they didn't like him because he was an asshole, not because he voted for Hillary.
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They haven't released the full details, but it sounds like it was supposed to be a small session with 10-12 OR members from that CD where they planned to discuss internally how they would organize (for Bryce?) and it wasn't meant to be a session for primary candidates to try to campaign for support.

At least the initial tweet says it was a "meeting meant to be private to OWR CD1 members". So it looks like they will be saying he tried to crash a private meeting at the very least.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
neurosisxeno said:
I never took that quote as being degrading. Poorly worded, for sure. But his sentiment was that he went out of his way to diversify his cabinet by putting as many qualified women in leadership roles as he could. The soundbite was not good, but it definitely wasn't as bad as people made it out to be.
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Yea but the GIFs were amazing

BIND-THEM-COMP_8.gif


Box of Kittens said:
I certainly wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on Yankovich's word alone.
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Apparently he's just confirming it happened, not reporting it himself. So it's two people.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
neurosisxeno said:
I never took that quote as being degrading. Poorly worded, for sure. But his sentiment was that he went out of his way to diversify his cabinet by putting as many qualified women in leadership roles as he could. The soundbite was not good, but it definitely wasn't as bad as people made it out to be.
Click to expand...

It's a pretty decent sentiment. The best that could have been expected from a Republican probably. Nothing to vote for him over Obama for, but it seems unfair to attack him as sexist for wanting to hire more women into cabinet positions.

His "corporations are people" gaffe was completely misunderstood and blown out of proportion too. It was a decent point about tax incidence.

Romney explained that one way to fulfill promises on entitlement programs is to ”raise taxes on people," but before he could articulate his position on not raising taxes, someone interrupted.

”Corporations!" a protester shouted, apparently urging Romney to raise taxes on corporations that have benefited from loopholes in the tax code. ”Corporations!"

”Corporations are people, my friend," Romney said.

Some people in the front of the audience shouted, ”No, they're not!"

”Of course they are," Romney said. ”Everything corporations earn ultimately goes to people. Where do you think it goes?"
Click to expand...
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Mr.Mike said:
It's a pretty decent sentiment. The best that could have been expected from a Republican probably. Nothing to vote for him over Obama for, but it seems unfair to attack him as sexist for wanting to hire more women into cabinet positions.

His "corporations are people" gaffe was completely misunderstood and blown out of proportion too. It was a decent point about tax incidence.
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That was definitely an indefensible gaffe. The Binders thing was akin to the Howard Dean scream soundbite. It was taken quite a bit out of context and didn't paint a pretty picture of him as a person. The Corporations Are People one is just him being a straight up dick, but that is a mentality that you expect from a businessman. No doubt Trump would assert that Corporations are people.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Does the left owe Mitt Romney an apology? He also warned you all about Russia.
Click to expand...

I have already said many times in recent months that Mitt Romney was right about Russia.

He's still a corporate scumbag who ended up sucking up to Trump once he won, but he absolutely was right that Russia would become our biggest adversary.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
neurosisxeno said:
That was definitely an indefensible gaffe. The Binders thing was akin to the Howard Dean scream soundbite. It was taken quite a bit out of context and didn't paint a pretty picture of him as a person. The Corporations Are People one is just him being a straight up dick, but that is a mentality that you expect from a businessman. No doubt Trump would assert that Corporations are people.
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The point is that taxing corporations is taxing the people that own the corporation. So the idea that you would just tax corporations and not people is positively wrong.

Generally the rhetoric for increasing corporate taxes is to tax the rich, but you can just tax the rich.
 
E

Ernest

Banned
35 year old real estate brat with zero diplomacy experience couldn't negotiate Middle East peace simply because he's Jewish and Trump's son in law!

Palestinians were disappointed after “tense” meeting with Jared Kushner, and Trump may abandon peace process: Report

Following a “tense” meeting between President Donald Trump’s senior adviser and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Trump will receive a report about the peace negotiations and decide whether or not to continue with them.

The meeting was reported by the London-based Arabic daily al-Hayat on Saturday by an adviser to Abbas who attended the meeting, and in a translation from the Jerusalem Post, Trump “is to determine the future of reigniting Mideast peace efforts in the near future, including the possibility of withdrawing completely from the process.” A senior Trump administration official told the Post that the report was “nonsense.”

Abbas was furious with Kushner and Trump’s Middle East envoy Jason Greenblatt for taking Israel’s side after Kushner told him Israel had demanded that the leader issued an “immediate halt of payments to terrorists and their families,” according to the Post. The Trump administration was also “equally upset” because Abbas would not condemn a stabbing attack just outside Jerusalem’s Old City last week that killed an Israeli police officer. Abbas also refused to meet with the controversial U.S. Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman.
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He knows all the best people. So much winning. blah blah blah...
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Mr.Mike said:
The point is that taxing corporations is taxing the people that own the corporation. So the idea that you would just tax corporations and not people is positively wrong.

Generally the rhetoric for increasing corporate taxes is to tax the rich, but you can just tax the rich.
Click to expand...

Except, he was not arguing for increased taxes on rich people in place of taxing corporations.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Ernest said:
35 year old real estate brat with zero diplomacy experience couldn't negotiate Middle East peace simply because he's Jewish and Trump's son in law!



He knows all the best people. So much winning. blah blah blah...
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This is a good thing domestically for him. He has no choice but to side with Israel and that is a popular stance both among the people and the foreign policy apparatus. The idea that he was going to be neutral or try to broker some kind of peace is actually not very popular. People don't want peace or neutrality anymore, they want to choose sides.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
AntraxSuicide said:
Yeah, but that's just standard trickle down bullshit. It'll be decades before we stop hearing that argument.
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True :(

I'd actually be for a significant reduction in corporate taxes, made up through increased personal taxes and capital gains taxes.
You can move a corporation out of the country using various nefarious tactics, but it's really hard to move the beneficiaries of those corporations outside the country if you want to live here.


Mr.Mike said:
No, but that doesn't vindicate the notion that you could tax corporations instead of people.
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True, but it's an awful word choice considering the 2010 supreme court ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Holmes said:
Agreed. The narrative is always about the previous election. I remember when Republicans were considered the permanent minority in 2009.
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Democrats were in the permanent minority in 2005 too.

Also Republicans needed to moderate on immigration in 2013. Guess not!
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
I always felt bad for Romney and his "battleships" gaffe in that debate because while it's obviously true the worlds navies don't consist of bigass dreadnoughts any more I doubt that most Americans are familiar enough with the different classifications of warships and it was a fitting enough description.

I mean obviously he should have just said "warship" but whatever.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Democrats were in the permanent minority in 2005 too.
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This is the one that really baffles me. Republicans won two close elections where narrow losses would have cost them the election and moderate leads in the senate but they were the permanent majority? At least in 2009 the Republicans really were battered everywhere.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
Bonen no Max'd said:
This is the one that really baffles me. Republicans won two close elections where narrow losses would have cost them the election and moderate leads in the senate but they were the permanent majority? At least in 2009 the Republicans really were battered everywhere.
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The media likes a strong narrative.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Bonen no Max'd said:
This is the one that really baffles me. Republicans won two close elections where narrow losses would have cost them the election and moderate leads in the senate but they were the permanent majority? At least in 2009 the Republicans really were battered everywhere.
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I can understand assuming the Senate was safe for the GOP in 2006 - the Democrats needed almost a clean sweep and that's what ended up happening (the only close race they lost was Tennessee which, well, Tennessee).

No consistent narrative seems to have formed around 2016 yet other than that Hillary blew it, though if more concrete Russian stuff comes out that could end up taking off some of the heat from her looking back. I'm just extremely grateful no "permanent Trump majority!" narrative has emerged here.

Politically however I'd say we're in a similar situation as we were leading up to 2006. Even money to win back the House and an incredibly narrow path to winning the Senate (NV, AZ, TX, hold all our other seats). Compared to then there's absolutely no room for error in the Senate, and the House is much more strongly gerrymandered now than it was then, but thanks to the GOP being hellbent on destroying the economy and Trump's blatant shittiness it's at least within the realm of possibility.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Oh dear. I'm -almost- optimistic that we won't have a health care vote this week. Collins sounded like a pretty firm "no" yesterday (citing all sorts of extremely real problems!) and we already know Heller is. That leaves zero remaining votes to lose. Don't give a shit how backwards their reasons are, but I'll gladly take a nay out of Cruz, Paul or Johnson! There are still ... 3 medicaid expansion state Rs on top of those 5 potential nays, I think?
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
TestOfTide said:
I have already said many times in recent months that Mitt Romney was right about Russia.

He's still a corporate scumbag who ended up sucking up to Trump once he won, but he absolutely was right that Russia would become our biggest adversary.
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Has he even said anything about The Bigot since that infamous meeting?
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
If Collins is a hard no, it's going to be hard to keep Cruz on board. You appeal to Collins, you continue to lose Cruz. And Paul also seems to be a hard no, so...

This bill is not in the place it needs to be if they wanted to vote by Tuesday or Wednesday

Also today is CBO day, and that's not going to do the bill any favors
 
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