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[kirblar]

There are bigger issues about DAPL than the kind of steel it's being built with.

This is a really strange and petty complaint regarding the context of the tweet.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I don't think we're getting any big news today.

We've got about an hour before we draw that conclusion.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

We've got about an hour before we draw that conclusion.

More like two hours and twenty minutes. The news tends to drop anywhere between 5:00 pm to 7:30 pm, iirc.

 

[whyamihere]

This will be interesting/a must listen.

@jonlovett
Monday on @PodSaveAmerica, @Sen_JoeManchin joins @TVietor08 and me to talk about the latest on Trumpcare. Will be interesting.

 

[Macho Madness]

It's not taken seriously because you need 50+1 to get there, and they're not close enough to a point where they have the leverage to throw around. The other 20% hold the keys and are cool w/ holding it to a public option. (That could eventually become single payer anyway!)

Those "support Medicare/Medicaid" stats on the GOP side tho? That's why the Dems pulled out the "NA NA NA NA" song.

Sure. Majority of Democrats support it though, which says to me it's probably a good idea to let them know you'd implement given the chance.

Also hello 12% of Republicans how you doin

or rather what the hell are you doin

 

[whyamihere]

If over 50% of Democrats support something, that's important to note!

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

People like to shit on Manchin, but if we had 3 more Manchin's across red states then Obamacare would be safe and 20 million people would be sleeping alot easier.

 

[whyamihere]

People like to shit on Manchin, but if we had 3 more Manchin's across red states then Obamacare would be safe and 20 million people would be sleeping alot easier.

To be fair, Heitkamp, McCaskill, Tester and Donnelly are much better people than Manchin is in ruby red states.

 

[pigeon]

Sure. Majority of Democrats support it though, which says to me it's probably a good idea to let them know you'd implement given the chance.

Yup. Dems should talk about Medicare for All or public option in 2018 and 2020, and have bills ready to show off and advance on the floor. It's clearly a winning issue and the GOP has aptly demonstrated it has less than no ideas about healthcare.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yup. Dems should talk about Medicare for All or public option in 2018 and 2020, and have bills ready to show off and advance on the floor. It's clearly a winning issue and the GOP has aptly demonstrated it has less than no ideas about healthcare.

Agreed

 

[Macho Madness]

To be fair, Heitkamp, McCaskill, Tester and Donnelly are much better people than Manchin is in ruby red states.

Joe's office usually responds to my calls and emails. Which I appreciate even though I've gotten "In Support of Obamacare Response #5476" a lot.

Never heard back when I complained about Gorsuch though.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

So is this "Putin gave direct orders to help elect Trump" thing the oppo?

Please tell me that's not all there is.

 

[Autodidact]

So is this "Putin gave direct orders to help elect Trump" thing the oppo?

Please tell me that's not all there is.

No, that was out this morning.

 

[shem935]

So is this "Putin gave direct orders to help elect Trump" thing the oppo?

Please tell me that's not all there is.

That was released this morning.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

No, that was out this morning.

That was released this morning.

Oh ok, thanks.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yup. Dems should talk about Medicare for All or public option in 2018 and 2020, and have bills ready to show off and advance on the floor. It's clearly a winning issue and the GOP has aptly demonstrated it has less than no ideas about healthcare.

At the very least Pelosi should include a public option act in her first 100 hours plan. It's passed the House before.

 

[Hindl]

Oh ok, thanks.

Tick tick guy also said oppo could drop Monday instead of today

 

[Random Human]

The tick tick guy usually is hyping Comey related stuff, right? (Since they're friends.) So I imagine whatever he's teasing is about that.

 

[Diablos]

Wouldn't a more sensible step be to pump tons of money back into Medicaid (assuming AHCA passes before our wet dream uber Dem majority scenario) and allow for people to buy in nationwide? It's effectively a public option with much already being in place

 

[hydragonwarrior]

So is the likelihood Obamacare will be repealed next week?

*sigh* Repubs finally won against Obama

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So is the likelihood Obamacare will be repealed next week?

*sigh* Repubs finally won against Obama

I don't know. I think Rand Paul is throwing a wrench in their plans to let Heller and Collins to vote no.

Also Obama is still going to get the last laugh when this whole nonsense leads to medicare for all.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't know. I think Rand Paul is throwing a wrench in their plans to let Heller and Collins to vote no.

Also Obama is still going to get the last laugh when this whole nonsense leads to medicare for all.

From what I read, seems like Heller voting no was the wild card.

Who knows.

 

[Hindl]

So is the likelihood Obamacare will be repealed next week?

*sigh* Repubs finally won against Obama

It's not unlikely that it won't be, so that's bad enough.

And this is a Pyrrhic victory if I've ever seen one

 

[Macho Madness]

Wouldn't a more sensible step be to pump tons of money back into Medicaid (assuming AHCA passes before our wet dream uber Dem majority scenario) and allow for people to buy in nationwide? It's effectively a public option with much already being in place

Expanding an existing system would probably work best, yeah. We already have single payer systems, they're just not universal.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

To be fair, Heitkamp, McCaskill, Tester and Donnelly are much better people than Manchin is in ruby red states.

WV has become substantially more conservative than any of those states except North Dakota.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Edit: Wrong thread, I'm an idiot.

 

[studyguy]

When you think the admin's lies can't get any bolder.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

From what I read, seems like Heller voting no was the wild card.

Who knows.

His description of the bill certainly didn't sound like it was a canned No from McConnell. That was a brutal condemning of the bill. If he was a planned no, he wouldn't outright state the bill takes away insurance from tens of millions so clearly as he did. Why would they want a Republican on record saying something like that if the entire thing was planned?

I don't really know what's going on at this point. This kind of feels like the first House vote, where the plan starts falling apart early and never quite recovers.

 

[Autodidact]

His description of the bill certainly didn't sound like it was a canned No from McConnell. That a brutal condemning of the bill. If he was a planned no, he wouldn't outright state the bill take away insurance from tens of millions so clearly as he did. Why would they want a Republican on record saying something like that if the entire thing was planned.

Yeah, and the report about a seven-figure ad campaign being planned against Heller seems a bit too extreme to be mere theater.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah, and the report about a seven-figure ad campaign being planned against Heller seems a bit too extreme to be mere theater.

If Heller and Paul weren't planned (and Paul stays No, which seems entirely possible based on what he's said), then next week just got a lot funkier.

CBO release day is going to be... interesting to watch.

 

[Autodidact]

I hope Heller and Paul stay no, too, if only because I want to see Murkowski and Collins held to the flame for once instead of just getting the moderate pass. If Paul stays no, all eyes will be on them. Maybe they'll finally get called on their bullshit.

Collins could show some political shrewdness by demanding that the bill incorporate elements of the slightly better one she and Cassidy created. Heller might be able to stomach voting for that one, meaning that the bill would pass with Rand as the only no vote.

 

[Kevinroc]

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/878361939042324482

I think it's quite useful to think of the current GOP healthcare vision as offering a vision for a "subprime" insurance market. 1/x

Now "subprime" these days has an intensely pejorative connonation because of the housing crash and financial crisis. 2/x

But that didn't used to be the case! There was a time when the subprime market was pointed to as consumer choice at its best. 3/x

The idea was that the regulations around the 30 year fixed mortgage (basically an essential health benefits for lending) locked ppl out 4/x

And it made it hard for lotsa people to afford houses because stodgy regulators had a one size fits all vision for mortgages. 5/x

Thus began the proliferation of ever more creative (and insane) mortgage products fron NINJA (no income/no job) to negatively amortizing 6/x

These options really did make homebuying more accessible; people could afford homes they couldn't have otherwise. 7/x

Now, it all came to ruin because it turned out the *risk* was being systematically mispriced throughout the whole system. 8/x

One lesson: consumers have a hard time (understandably!) pricing risk themselves. It's *very* easy to con them with teaser rates etc 9/x

Which brings us to the current GOP vision for the individual market in the House/Sen bills. They're advocating for subprime insurance 10/x

The arguments are v similar: current regulatory structure locks people out, raises prices and limits consumer choice. 11/x

The solution is to deregulat and allow the health insurance version of "interest only loans" and NINJA loans to proliferate. 12/x

And some people will be able to better "afford" insurance in the same way an interest-only loan lets you "afford" a big house 13/x

But the problem is the risk is still there! We've learned that individual consumers aren't great at pricing risk. 14/x

And now we're gonna have them price that risk *for their own lives and health* and buy exotic products marketed by insurance companies. 15/x

If it happens, take this as my prediction it will end in crisis just the way the subprime bubble did. 16/16

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/878366153772601344

John Herrman‏Verified account
Replying to @chrislhayes
yeah but is the crisis collectively understood or just mercilessly distributed into individual misery, and muddied

Christopher Hayes Retweeted John Herrman

Good question

 

[Plinko]

Yup. Dems should talk about Medicare for All or public option in 2018 and 2020, and have bills ready to show off and advance on the floor. It's clearly a winning issue and the GOP has aptly demonstrated it has less than no ideas about healthcare.

100% this.

 

[Teggy]

Man why did Iron Stache have to have a Twitter account for people to look up now that he's famous



he seemed so promising too
Right, I'm saying they are using the right strategy (for their lizard-people priorities of course) while people are calling it dumb or theater or whatever.

He's an iron worker and took the iron work job that was available to him.

Hillary Clinton @HillaryClinton

Forget death panels. If Republicans pass this bill, they're the death party.

 

[whyamihere]

Yup. Dems should talk about Medicare for All or public option in 2018 and 2020, and have bills ready to show off and advance on the floor. It's clearly a winning issue and the GOP has aptly demonstrated it has less than no ideas about healthcare.

This.

 

[kirblar]

NoChillary is best Hillary.

 

[nature boy]

Mar-a-Lago losing business? SAD!

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

The whole HC market is so F'd up that the gov HAS to step in and take over it. This idea that if you give tax cuts to people, that it will make it cheaper is laughable. They just pocket the change and then proceed to ensure that they have more profits the next quarter.

Glad we are coming to a consensus finally though.

 

[Autodidact]

Kander posts sick Twitter burn: "LOL U rock dude, fuck the GOP."

Hillary posts sick Twitter burn: "OMG shut up loser they killd ppl bcuz of you."

 

[Plinko]

Actively mocking the fact that people are going to die. These people are disgusting.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I hope Heller and Paul stay no, too, if only because I want to see Murkowski and Collins held to the flame for once instead of just getting the moderate pass. If Paul stays no, all eyes will be on them. Maybe they'll finally get called on their bullshit.

Collins could show some political shrewdness by demanding that the bill incorporate elements of the slightly better one she and Cassidy created. Heller might be able to stomach voting for that one, meaning that the bill would pass with Rand as the only no vote.

After what Heller said about the bill, it'd be suicide for him to vote for it.

Rand Paul seems really stubborn, and seems pretty set in not voting for this bill. It would also nuke Kentucky from orbit, so he probably doesn't particularly like that happening.

The issue with adding stuff like Collins' bill to the senate bill, is time is not their friend. Changes need to estimated by the CBO, and major changes could take additional days they simply do not have if they want this to get passed before the recess.

Which is where some of the other demands get kind of awkward as well. Ted Cruz's list had selling insurance across state lines. This doesn't seem like it's even possible via reconciliation, but even if it is, it takes time to get that in the bill, and such a large change would have a lag of a few days to figure out the costs and savings. Now I don't doubt Cruz will fold for literally nothing, but still, just an example of how their own time limit could bite them if senators start making late game demands like the members of the House did.

I think people are really too quick to point fingers that this is all theater and nothing matters and nothing will change and everyone will fold. I mean, in just the last 24 hours, people have gone from "Heller and Collins will be the token nos, all hope is lost" to throwing Paul in there instead of Collins because it turns out he's actually a no, so obviously stuff has changed and maybe the bill isn't actually as safe as is assumed

 

[kirblar]

The whole HC market is so F'd up that the gov HAS to step in and take over it. This idea that if you give tax cuts to people, that it will make it cheaper is laughable. They just pocket the change and then proceed to ensure that they have more profits the next quarter.

Glad we are coming to a consensus finally though.

The problem is that the fuckup is systemic w/ it being an employment-based system and unwinding that is going to be hard, painful, and difficult. And the public will hate it when it's attempted. That's why a backdoor single-payer via a public option is the best way to attempt that.

Like, a lot of complaints about raising rates and premiums and deductibles came from people ON employer-based plans who were seeing increases due to new coverage requirements, and these people aren't the ones Obamacare was targeting for assistance, for the most part. They're the status quo that's going to make your life hell when you try to fix it.

 

[Stinkles]

Alyssa posted about a "group hug" and asked everyone to get in. (it's in Ted's twitter response)

Ted Cruz posted that "We all need a hug!"

Alyssa revoked his invitation to the hug party insinuating that he's a hateful douchebag with the most punchable face in politics. (Warning: That last part was my own insinuation and is not an attempt to look into the mind of Alyssa Milano)

haha I was reading it backwards. I thought she was responding to him. I don't twatter properly

 

[Crocodile]

If we run on Medicare for All but in the end can only restore Medicaid and allow for a public buy-in/option into Medicaid/Medicare would that be good enough for 2020/2024 or do you think too many people would be disappointed? If we need to run on Medicare for All but fall a bit short when we actually have power I think that would still be a good outcome but I've been worried about a potential backlash (putting aside however conservatives would feel). Non-valid concerns?

 

[whyamihere]

Or, we just run on Medicare for All, something complete easy to understand and something our voters want.

 

[Ogodei]

That ad buy has me thinking.

Do you guys think "all politics is local" is still an idiom that can even be used anymore?

That really hasn't been the case since the Southern Strategy, outside of state and local-level elections down South where Dixiecrats continued to be a thing. Making the parties ideologically cohesive (which is what Civil Rights and the Southern Strategy swap did) nationalized politics because the parties became something more than ad-hoc coalitions built around economic issues.

 

[kirblar]

If we run on Medicare for All but in the end can only restore Medicaid and allow for a public buy-in/option into Medicaid/Medicare would that be good enough for 2020/2024 or do you think too many people would be disappointed? If we need to run on Medicare for All but fall a bit short when we actually have power I think that would still be a good outcome but I've been worried about a potential backlash (putting aside however conservatives would feel). Non-valid concerns?

It doesn't matter what you do. You'll be kicked out anyway in 2022 if we get a DDD setup.

This is the political nihilism behind the AHCA. And sadly, I don't think the GOP is wrong here.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It could be a head fake, just to intimidate.

They know what they're doing.

*wa-TISH wa-TISH* right at the moderates' rear ends.

 

[Teggy]

Every single lie trump has told since the inauguration

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...s-lies.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=1

 

[Suikoguy]

Or, we just run on Medicare for All, something complete easy to understand and something our voters want.

It would be VERY disruptive.
Medicare buy-in would be an acceptable compromise and basically as easy to sell.

On the other hand, pushing for Medicare for all would probably work out ok, but expect the other to come to fruition. The pushback from Medicare for all will be extensive.