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[kess]

So if the bill is so unpopular, didn't McCain do Trump a favor in a way? (increase his reelection chances)

By depressing the conservative vote and giving moderates the act of martyrdom against Trump they've always wanted? I doubt it.

Stein isn't wrong, but losing a vote on the floor is huge.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

So if the bill is so unpopular, didn't McCain do Trump a favor in a way? (increase his reelection chances)

In a way, sure, in another way it stopped millions from losing their health insurance, an almost certain recession, and everyone still voted for this terrible bill in the first place which is now on record.

Trump is doing a good enough job of hurting his re-election chances on a daily basis. Also, the fact that this didn't pass just once again shows how much of a shit negotiator Donny is.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

So if the bill is so unpopular, didn't McCain do Trump a favor in a way? (increase his reelection chances)

People do want ACA fixed. And people are blaming the party in power for not fixing it. They blame the GOP for not working with Democrats.

So if they do nothing and let it fail or of course just outright sabotage it, they will be hurt. They are going to have to try a good faith improvement if they want credit for healthcare. Otherwise, they own the failure.

 

[Slizeezyc]

So if the bill is so unpopular, didn't McCain do Trump a favor in a way? (increase his reelection chances)

Not if he's simultaneously going to try to undermine the current ACA. Again, unless he improves it, he just gets the blame either way.

Also worth remembering that the bill the House passed originally was a non-starter for this Senate group, and that was one McCain was originally seemingly okay with when others weren't. He was just the decider on this bizarre, late-night makeshift version.

 

[aspiegamer]

Absolutely no bill that passes solely on Rs in the House will get 60 in the Senate. Period. Forget about any further legislation without substantial procedural fuckery. Schumer has the party on lockdown. He just got a half dozen D senators from the reddest of Trump landslide red states to vote to keep Obamacare and will face zero political consequences for those votes. That's... actually really freaking impressive. It's been an odd 8 years when the script is now 100% flipped.

It's pretty telling when you have all 3 branches of the government and none of those 3 factions trust each other.

Obama was a least a supervising parent in the room while he was in office. He could keep their bullshit down to boasting and symbolic legislation. Now there's a man with zero experience in government with the keys and doesn't give a crap if the kids misbehave-- Hell, he encourages it and then beats up his kids when they don't obey him. I'm not shocked that they have no clue what they're doing, but I never thought they'd be THIS bad. At this rate we'll be lucky if we can even keep the government open, so say nothing of following any sort of agenda. It's terrifying how well Obama held this all together.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

They also spent all of their effort in both the House and the Senate on this for months. They touted for 7 years about how they would repeal and replace Obamacare and it was clear they didn't even fucking spend one second thinking about actually doing it. They scribbled this shit over lunch in an hour with an 8 page shitshow, 3 pages of which were dedicated to defunding Planned Parenthood.

This is a CATASTROPHIC loss for the GOP.

Yup.

I take your point, and I think it's valid with regards to expending political capital, but I think the GOP pushes a wholesale ravaging of the tax code by not paying for it, and just increasing the debt. I doubt the Freedumb Caucus balks at that idea.

I agree that the FC will ignore the deficits and just not pay for it by doing Bush Tax Cuts Part II in the end..

That should have been what their move was in the beginning and just let them expire after 10 years instead of trying to find a way to make them more permanent through this healthcare gambit

 

[Stinkles]

I think if McCain thought Trump was going to survive the next few months he might have voted yes.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

In a way, sure, in another way it stopped millions from losing their health insurance, an almost certain recession, and everyone still voted for this terrible bill in the first place which is now on record.

Trump is doing a good enough job of hurting his re-election chances on a daily basis. Also, the fact that this didn't pass just once again shows how much of a shit negotiator Donny is.

People do want ACA fixed. And people are blaming the party in power for not fixing it. They blame the GOP for not working with Democrats.

So if they do nothing and let it fail or of course just outright sabotage it, they will be hurt. They are going to have to try a good faith improvement if they want credit for healthcare. Otherwise, they own the failure.

Not if he's simultaneously going to try to undermine the current ACA. Again, unless he improves it, he just gets the blame either way.

Also worth remembering that the bill the House passed originally was a non-starter for this Senate group, and that was one McCain was originally seemingly okay with when others weren't. He was just the decider on this bizarre, late-night makeshift version.

Trump will try to brand himself still as an outsider. He'll say a few Republican senators prevented him from fixing the "mess Democrats created," or something along those lines. Will it work? Who knows, but the fact that he got elected already despite everything means I wont count him out of the 2020 race just yet. (not that you were suggesting that either)

 

[BobTheFork]

I think if McCain thought Trump was going to survive the next few months he might have voted yes.

I think if McCain thought HE was going to survive the next few months, he might have voted yes.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Trump will, try to brand himself still as an outsider. He'll say a few Republican senators prevented him from fixing the "mess Democrats created," or something along those lines. Will it work? Who knows, but the fact that he got elected already despite everything means I wont count him out of the 2020 race just yet. (not that you were suggesting that either)

He won't be running against Hillary Clinton in 2020 (I think!) and he'll have four years of failures to defend, if he even makes it four years.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Trump will try to brand himself still as an outsider. He'll say a few Republican senators prevented him from fixing the "mess Democrats created," or something along those lines. Will it work? Who knows, but the fact that he got elected already despite everything means I wont count him out of the 2020 race just yet. (not that you were suggesting that either)

Oh, I'm not counting him out of anything. And you're right, he'll try. But he has the entire government. People aren't going to put up with those excuses. His base might, but he needs more than his base to succeed.

It'll be interesting for sure.

 

[Dan]

McCain is receiving treatment over the recess and may not come back for quite some time after the recess is over (if he even comes back), according to CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/28/politics/health-care-state-of-play/index.html



So he came back just to make a fool of McConnell and Trump as possibly his last act in congress

Also it might have been Rand Paul's fault that McCain was annoyed

This seems like Rand Paul decided to screw with McCain's bill in retaliation for his skinny repeal vote.

 

[Stinkles]

I think if McCain thought HE was going to survive the next few months, he might have voted yes.

I think the two things are connected. He sees the writing on history's wall and wants to make sure his legacy is on the right side of that wall.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This seems like Rand Paul decided to screw with McCain's bill in retaliation for his skinny repeal vote.

That was before the healthcare vote

 

[Dan]

Oh, I'm not counting him out of anything. And you're right, he'll try. But he has the entire government. People aren't going to put up with those excuses. His base might, but he needs more than his base to succeed.

It'll be interesting for sure.

I'm not sure how Trump simultaneously argues that the country needs an outsider businessman to run the country and argues that an outside businessman has failed to enact any major legislation because he couldn't talk Congress into anything.

That was before the healthcare vote

Was it? What was the objection heard after the vote? Or was it Rand Paul made his intentions known earlier and then they tried it anyway?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Oh, maybe I was reading it wrong and Rand's vote was after the bill

Rand's a petty little gremlin I guess

 

[whyamihere]

It also doesn't seem like Kid Rock is actually going to run and instead is just going to register people to vote at his concerts (??), but either way, Stabenow's team needs to take this seriously. I'm worried they're not ready to deal with an unconvential candidate.

 

[Wilsongt]

Such salty tears from GOP talking heads due to the healthcare vote last night.

 

[BobTheFork]

I think the two things are connected. He sees the writing on history's wall and wants to make sure his legacy is on the right side of that wall.

I think you mean the left side of the wall

I agree though. I wondered if his condition and the time he spent in hospital would affect him.

 

[Blader]

Wouldn't Kid Rock have to go on the ballot as Robert Ritchie?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Wouldn't Kid Rock have to go on the ballot as Robert Ritchie?

Can't you put nicknames on ballots a la Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Such salty tears from GOP talking heads due to the healthcare vote last night.

Lol at Fox & Friends:

"The Democrats are celebrating! Well congratulations! Now the healthy people are paying for the sick people!"

THATS HOW INSURANCE WORKS

 

[FloydtheFathead]

Wouldn't Kid Rock have to go on the ballot as Robert Ritchie?

I wanna say he can have kid rock as well on the ballot since it is a legal trademarked nickname? But Robert Richie will have to be on ballot as well.

Can't you put nicknames on ballots a la Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente?

Yes like that

 

[aspiegamer]

North Korea has fantastic dramatic timing here. We were just finishing one arc and we need a filler arc so the manga get move ahead a bit.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Lol at Fox & Friends:

"The Democrats are celebrating! Well congratulations! Now the healthy people are paying for the sick people!"

THATS HOW INSURANCE WORKS

Oh no! Anything but that! Saving people is so terrible!

 

[Wilsongt]

Lol at Fox & Friends:

"The Democrats are celebrating! Well congratulations! Now the healthy people are paying for the sick people!"

THATS HOW INSURANCE WORKS

Only in America will people be disgusted by not being able to deny affordable healtcare to some of the most vulnerable citizens.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Lol at Fox & Friends:

"The Democrats are celebrating! Well congratulations! Now the healthy people are paying for the sick people!"

THATS HOW INSURANCE WORKS

Nobody tell them car insurance is paid by people who don't get in accidents.

 

[Dan]

Oh, maybe I was reading it wrong and Rand's vote was after the bill

Rand's a petty little gremlin I guess

Yeah, I think yesterday afternoon Democrats and McConnell/McCain agreed to move into the NDAA immediately following the vote. Paul didn't raise an objection when the hotline went out. Then he unexpectedly objected when McConnell went to execute that agreed upon plan after the skinny repeal was defeated.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/28/how-mccain-upended-obamacare-repeal-241070

But after the health care bill failed, the libertarian-leaning Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) would not allow McConnell to move forward on the defense bill.

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/3...s-mcconnell-from-setting-up-defense-bill-vote

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) blocked Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's (R-Ky.) request early Friday morning for the chamber to advance the annual defense funding bill.

McConnell made the request in the immediate aftermath of the Senate's shocking rejection of a scaled-back bill to repeal parts of ObamaCare, asking for unanimous consent to proceed to the defense legislation.

...

But Paul, who has been among the Senate's most vocal ObamaCare critics, voiced an objection to McConnell's request without explaining why, stalling proceedings on the NDAA, which is typically one of the least controversial spending bills.

I think it's clear it was at least partially intended to slap McCain for his vote. Petty as hell after he was apparently given assurances his amendments would be given consideration.

 

[Wilsongt]

Nobody tell them car insurance is paid by people who don't get in accidents.

These people know this. They are just doing their best to stir up outrage of their base. They have nothing better to do and it's how they get their paycheck.

 

[Slizeezyc]

Nobody tell them car insurance is paid by people who don't get in accidents.

Yes, but we are going to Ban All Cars as well, so maybe this isn't a good argument.

 

[Surfinn]

Lol at Fox & Friends:

"The Democrats are celebrating! Well congratulations! Now the healthy people are paying for the sick people!"

THATS HOW INSURANCE WORKS

Fuck you got mine, the true American dream

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Yeah, I think yesterday afternoon Democrats and McConnell/McCain agreed to move into the NDAA immediately following the vote. Paul didn't raise an objection when the hotline went out. Then he unexpectedly objected when McConnell went to execute that agreed upon plan after the skinny repeal was defeated.

It stinks that this isn't being immediately pushed through but glad it's causing more shit for McConnell. Get fucked turtle.

 

[chadskin]

This was always a suspicious death...

Vladimir Putin’s former media czar was murdered in Washington, DC on the eve of a planned meeting with the U.S. Justice Department, according to two FBI agents whose assertions cast new doubts on the US government’s official explanation of his death.

Mikhail Lesin’s battered body was discovered in his Dupont Circle hotel room on the morning of November 5, 2015 with blunt-force injuries to the head, neck, and torso. After an almost year-long "comprehensive investigation," a federal prosecutor announced last October that Lesin died alone in his room due to a series of drunken falls “after days of excessive consumption of alcohol.” His death was ruled an "accident," and prosecutors closed the case.

But the two FBI agents — as well as a third agent and a serving US intelligence officer — said Lesin was actually bludgeoned to death. None of these officials were directly involved in the government’s investigation, but they said they learned about it from colleagues who were.

“Lesin was beaten to death,” one of the FBI agents said. “I would implore you to say as much. There seems to be an effort here to cover up that fact for reasons I can't get into.”

He continued: “What I can tell you is that there isn’t a single person inside the bureau who believes this guy got drunk, fell down, and died. Everyone thinks he was whacked and that Putin or the Kremlin were behind it.”

In another previously unreported revelation, the two FBI agents said it was the Department of Justice that paid for the hotel room where Lesin died. DOJ officials had invited the Russian to Washington to interview him about the inner workings of RT, the Kremlin-funded network that Lesin founded, they said.

But Lesin never made it to the interview. He died the night before it was scheduled to take place.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopo...e-meeting-feds?utm_term=.rg78rakjl#.vwxAqMvoL

 

[Stinkles]

This was always a suspicious death...


https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopo...e-meeting-feds?utm_term=.rg78rakjl#.vwxAqMvoL

This was a weird one. "He fell" - "a bunch of times."

But I can't figure out the govt's angle, especially the administration this happened under.

 

[Autodidact]

Okay, some of the gremlins in the House have demanded McConnell's resignation. Who'll be the first senator to float the idea?

And Stinkles, your prediction about a story tonight better come true.

 

[Dan]

This was always a suspicious death...


https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopo...e-meeting-feds?utm_term=.rg78rakjl#.vwxAqMvoL

In another previously unreported revelation, the two FBI agents said it was the Department of Justice that paid for the hotel room where Lesin died. DOJ officials had invited the Russian to Washington to interview him about the inner workings of RT, the Kremlin-funded network that Lesin founded, they said.

So... the DOJ has wanted to bury this story because they either didn't provide this guy any security or because their security was breached? Seems like they'd look real dumb here, and it'd deter other people from coming to speak to the DOJ.

 

[kirblar]

So... the DOJ has wanted to bury this story because they either didn't provide this guy any security or because their security was breached?

Probably both.

(also probably deserves its own thread, especially given the RT connection)

 

[Wilsongt]

So... the DOJ has wanted to bury this story because they either didn't provide this guy any security or because their security was breached? Seems like they'd look real dumb here, and it'd deter other people from coming to speak to the DOJ.

So this was in 2015? Obama's DoJ?

INVESTIGATE! LOCK HIM UP!

 

[Paches]

Okay, some of the gremlins in the House have demanded McConnell's legislation. Who'll be the first senator to float the idea?

And Stinkles, your prediction about a story tonight better come true.

Resignation?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Okay, some of the gremlins in the House have demanded McConnell's legislation. Who'll be the first senator to float the idea?

And Stinkles, your prediction about a story tonight better come true.

I assume you meant to say resignation. My money's on Rand Paul.

 

[mclem]

They also spent all of their effort in both the House and the Senate on this for months. They touted for 7 years about how they would repeal and replace Obamacare and it was clear they didn't even fucking spend one second thinking about actually doing it. They scribbled this shit over lunch in an hour with an 8 page shitshow, 3 pages of which were dedicated to defunding Planned Parenthood.

Reminds me of when I had a big project to produce in school when I was a kid.

And I still did a better job.

 

[Plinko]

I still can't get over that McCain vote video. The pause, the point down when he says no, the state at McConnell, and the walk away. Everything about it was perfect.

 

[RumbleHumble]

What's the source that the House wants the Senate to retry yet again?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

What's the source that the House wants the Senate to retry yet again?

They can't do reconciliation again for this apparently so it would just be hurling dead bills at them.

 

[Slizeezyc]

I still can't get over that McCain vote video. The pause, the point down when he says no, the state at McConnell, and the walk away. Everything a out it was perfect.

The man knew all the millennials watching C-SPAN 2 late at night were ready to see how much swag he had.

 

[Ogodei]

It's nice to wake up to good political news for once this year.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Could the senate pass the original house bill that passed, which feels like it was years ago.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Could the senate pass the original house bill that passed, which feels like it was years ago.

No, because that's technically what they just voted on and tabled.

 

[Futurevoid]

Could the senate pass the original house bill that passed, which feels like it was years ago.

If they could have, it would have happened already. The BCRA exists because Senate R's saw the House bill as untenable. Plus the vote for the MTP was to begin debate on the original House bill and the amendments were things like the BCRA, full repeal and the skinny repeal.

 

[Slizeezyc]

Could the senate pass the original house bill that passed, which feels like it was years ago.

Nah, that thing was never close to passing the Senate. Even when it passed the House originally everyone said it was just a ploy because the Senate said there's no chance we're passing this. It was the original version of passing the issue down the line by Ryan to Turtle.