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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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Unfortunately I know that I am unlikely to find a Trump supporter or conservative or Fox News viewer here on NeoGAF and I also don't know any privately, but I am dying to see how anyone would defend that.
Well, you havent been paying attention. TheLaughingStock posts regularly and defends the Fox News spin.
 
Awful. Both sides, amirite? Al Sharpton is just as fearmongering, racebaiting, outright lying blowhard just like Hannity?
No, Hannity is a unique reflection of evil previously unseen in human history - like sentient, streaming refuse single-mindedly focused on the destruction of truth, decency, and our common values. If Sean Hannity were ever emblematic of popular opinion the only solution left would be to destroy this nation in a nuclear Holocaust not unlike what God did to the Canaanites.

But Al Sharpton and Jesse Watters are probably equally ranked on the chump scale.

Ok, who do I pull out of the woodwork instead? Ed Schultz? Keith Olbermann?
 

Pixieking

Banned
It's not a line of reasoning I wholly believe in, but it could be argued the problem really isn't Fox News - it's the average intelligence and lack of critical-thinking of its viewers. We all look at it and shout "How the fuck can you attack Obama for a suit, but defend someone who sexually assaults women?" But for people who never think critically about news, or honestly believe that left-wing media has a bias because their average-intelligence friends said so, Fox News is simply spoon-feeding them what they (think they) want.

Yes, Fox News ought not to stir-the-pot, and really should have better journalistic standards. But there's a reason why their ratings have dipped recently - even people who don't think critically about the news and aren't all that smart realise that something's wrong with Trump.
 

pigeon

Banned
In a world where international power is equitably held through democratic institutions, no it would not.

Right, but just to be clear, your plan for bringing about that world is to do nothing and hope it all works out and Assad decides to just switch to a peaceful transition to democracy. Which he might actually do once he's done sending the Kurds to deathcamps! But hey, isn't tolerating genocide because intervention would be politically difficult really what moral pacifism is all about?
 
ceo-worker.jpg
 

Teggy

Member
Kayleigh went to work for trumps YouTube channel where she can say stupid things without being challenged. Maybe they will hire Jeff lord but they probably only want blonde women.
 

Zolo

Member
It's not a line of reasoning I wholly believe in, but it could be argued the problem really isn't Fox News - it's the average intelligence and lack of critical-thinking of its viewers. We all look at it and shout "How the fuck can you attack Obama for a suit, but defend someone who sexually assaults women?" But for people who never think critically about news, or honestly believe that left-wing media has a bias because their average-intelligence friends said so, Fox News is simply spoon-feeding them what they (think they) want.

Yes, Fox News ought not to stir-the-pot, and really should have better journalistic standards. But there's a reason why their ratings have dipped recently - even people who don't think critically about the news and aren't all that smart realise that something's wrong with Trump.

If I remember right, their ratings go down even worse if they criticize Trump.
 

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
Kayleigh went to work for trumps YouTube channel where she can say stupid things without being challenged. Maybe they will hire Jeff lord but they probably only want blonde women.

She's gone? CNN just became 40% less unwatchable.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Look at this short Fox News segment: https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/894282579486031873

The host asks about Trumps record so far and the one guest makes the point the Trump hasn’t realized any policies yet, so the positive job numbers can’t be accredited to anything Trump did.
The guest also mentioned that the job numbers have been like that for several years at this point. In fact, the first 6 months of 2016 more jobs had been added than in the first 6 months of 2017.
Here are the numbers:
DGO1ozfVYAEV48W.jpg


At this point the host Jesse Watters says „thats not true“.
Which is a lie. I say „lie“ because he is spreading falsehoods on purpose here.
For the past years, during Obamas term, Fox News was busy talking about these numbers every single month. Every single month these positive numbers came out and Fox News told its viewers how they don’t matter and how they are not accurate.
Based on the amount of reporting they have done on those numbers I can’t give Jesse Watters the benefit of the doubt here. He knew, and yet he still lied and said that its not true that these numbers have been like that for years.

Fox News is doing shameful journalism to the point where I would call it propaganda.
First they talk about how these numbers are inaccurate and meaningless during Obamas term.
Now that its Trump term the narrative suddenly changed and Fox News no longer calls them inaccurate and meaningless, but now acts like this is a new development under Trump, lying about the fact that this development has been going on for years and its based on legislation Obama pushed through in his first term.

They end the interview by giving the last word to a pro Trump pundit who gets to voice the opinion that you don’t „necessarily have to do concrete things like legislation in order to get results.“
Which is, especially, when talking about the job numbers, grade A bullshit.
But thats where the segment ended, no further discussion, the bullshit goes unchallenged.
So bottom line: The truth was called „not true“ and total nonsense stands at the end.
Viewer successfully misinformed.



Unfortunately I know that I am unlikely to find a Trump supporter or conservative or Fox News viewer here on NeoGAF and I also don't know any privately, but I am dying to see how anyone would defend that.
There's your problem. Jesse Watters is a known racist, sexist scumbag.
 
Every two or three weeks I try to keep up with prison reform news. Letter from The Sentencing Project, interesting bits highlighted:

The Honorable William H. Pryor, Jr., Acting Chair
United States Sentencing Commission
1 Columbus Circle, NE, Suite 2-500, South Lobby
Washington, DC 20002-8002

July 28, 2017

Attn: Public Affairs – Priorities Comment

Dear Judge Pryor:

On behalf of The Sentencing Project, a national research and advocacy organization dedicated to a fair and proportionate criminal justice system, I am writing to submit public comments to the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC) regarding its policy priorities for the amendment cycle ending May 1, 2018. For over a decade the USSC has taken critical steps to amend the sentencing guidelines, particularly in federal cases involving drugs, to ensure greater fairness and to limit racial disparity and excessive sentencing. The USSC’s ongoing attention to mandatory sentencing and commitment to studying the effects of these changes is laudable.

The population in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons reached a peak in 2013, with 219,000 people. By 2016, this figure had declined by 12%, reaching 192,000. There is little doubt that the USSC’s adjustments to the sentencing guidelines as well as its amendments to retroactively apply these changes made a substantial contribution to this reduction. The decline has resulted in a lower scale of overcrowding and substantial cost savings, as well as in reuniting early thousands of families with loved ones serving harsh punishments.

Nonetheless, the federal prison population is 700% higher than in 1980, incurs substantial costs which hamstring the Department of Justice’s overall law enforcement obligations, and still results in dangerous overcrowding and conditions of confinement. This growth is the result of a number of factors, including: a dramatic escalation of federal drug prosecutions since the mid-1980s; the adoption of a range of mandatory sentencing policies by Congress; the elimination of parole; and a guideline structure that sets sentencing ranges higher than necessary to achieve the USSC goals of just punishment, deterrence, incapacitation, and rehabilitation.

Nationally, the population growth of recent decades has been due to changes in policy, not crime rates. At the state level, the National Research Council’s 2014 report, The Growth of Incarceration in the United States, concluded that the tripling of the prison population between 1980 and 2010 was entirely due to increased prison admissions and time served in prison. Similar trends can be seen in the federal system. According to findings of the Charles Colson Task Force on Federal Corrections, “between 1985 and 2014, the probability of receiving a prison sentence as opposed to probation for a federal crime increased dramatically, from 50 percent to 90 percent. The number of convictions in US courts nearly doubled, from 40,924 to 76,835, and average time served for drug and weapon crimes each went up from about two years to almost five.”

A number of developments and research findings of recent years suggest that it would be timely for the Commission to take a fresh look at the guidelines structure to determine if sentence lengths are “sufficient, but not greater than necessary (emphasis added),” to achieve the goals of sentencing. Such an exploration would be particularly important for long sentences, as described below, but would be beneficial for all offenses and sentence lengths. International comparisons of prison terms show that sentence lengths in the United States are generally considerably longer than in comparable nations, with little criminological justification. Indeed, other nations have maintained dramatically lower rates of incarceration than the U.S., with no adverse effects on public safety. The Commission’s careful consideration of this evidence is essential to maintain a fair and effective guideline system. For example:

The deterrent effect of the justice system on crime is produced by the certainty of punishment, not its severity. Most people contemplating criminal behavior are not thinking they will be caught, and so are not focused on the scale of punishment. They are also generally unfamiliar with statutory penalty structures, and frequently criminally offend with their judgment compromised by substance abuse or mental health problems. Moreover, incarcerating people for low-level drug selling, in particular, merely results in their being replaced by other sellers willing to fill their roles for economic gain, and does not address the substance abuse problems that users and some sellers struggle with.
Long sentences that extend beyond an individual’s crime-prone-years result in diminishing returns for public safety, and come at great cost to taxpayers. During the life course the prevalence of criminal behavior increases in late childhood, peaks in the teenage years, and begins to decline in the early 20s. During adolescence and into early adulthood, young people are still learning to self-regulate by controlling their impulses, considering the impact of their actions on others, delaying gratification, and resisting the influence of peers. Criminal behaviors fade during adulthood because of greater maturity, and because individuals acquire other forms of social control that promote desistence from crime, such as family responsibilities.
Excessive terms of sentence fail to incorporate the potential for rehabilitation and redemption. More than two-thirds of federal prisoners serving life or virtual life sentences – terms of 50-years or more – have been convicted of nonviolent crimes, including 30 percent for a drug crime. Among those serving life without parole sentences almost half (49.1%) have been convicted of a drug crime. Individuals convicted of drug offenses and sentenced to life or virtual life at the state level comprise only two percent of these sentences overall. People serving these long sentences are often lowest on the priority list for critical prison programing and treatment. Without the option of parole within the federal system, and the often distant placement of prisoners from home, the familial bonds which are so crucial to successful reintegration suffer. Former President Obama’s clemency initiative, which reduced sentences for 1,700 people, 500 of whom expected to die in prison, is a small but important example of the need to allow all individuals an opportunity at redemption.
Efforts to reduce prison sentences and downsize the prison population have not harmed public safety. Indeed, the USSC’s own study determined that individuals who had served reduced sentences following the 2007 crack cocaine guideline adjustment and retroactive application did not have higher recidivism rates than their counterparts who had served longer sentences for crack cocaine. Moreover, the states making the most dramatic cuts in incarceration levels, including New Jersey, New York, and California which downsized their prison populations by over 25% in recent years, outperformed the nationwide crime drop in most categories.
Sentencing law experts recommend a more ambitious sentencing reform agenda. The American Law Institute (ALI) earlier this year approved its model penal code for sentencing for federal and state governments after years of deliberations among dozens of legal scholars and experts. ALI members considered the deterrence, incapacitation and rehabilitation research described above and proposed noteworthy changes to current law to reduce sentence severity. For instance, ALI concludes that “terms for single offenses in excess of 20 years are rarely justified on proportionality grounds, and are too long to serve most utilitarian purposes….” In response, they proposed a mid-course review for long sentences that could be instructive to the USSC. The ALI recommends that a “judge or judicial panel revisit the sentence of any prisoner who has served 15 years or more in prison, and decide if, under present circumstances, the sentence originally imposed or a different sentence better serves the purposes of sentencing.” The “second look” would examine changed circumstances since sentencing, which may mean changed societal assessments of offense gravity, new technologies of risk assessment or treatment, or major changes in the individual or their family circumstances, the crime victims or the community.

The Sentencing Project supports ALI’s recent conclusion that “public safety can be safeguarded more efficiently, and at far less human cost, through evidence-based policies that are wielded carefully and are continuously tested and improved.” We applaud the Commission’s thoughtful initiatives to reduce guideline sentences up until this point. However, in the decades since the creation of the USSC, its guidelines and most of the mandatory minimum sentences authorized by Congress, a wealth of research about effective punishment demonstrates that more adjustments to excessive sentences with diminishing public safety benefits are needed.

I appreciate your consideration of this proposal and look forward to collaborating with the Commission as you explore policy priorities during the upcoming amendment cycle.



Sincerely,

Marc Mauer
Executive Director
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
https://twitter.com/kid_mao/status/893858157205893120

This, uh...seems quite problematic?

If Palestine stretches between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, any specific ideas on where the State of Israel would be located?

That's.. uhh..

I thought it was just a random twitter comment, then I click on it to see a video of them chanting it enthusiastically.

wow
Guess I have a video to bring up whenever anyone posts about the DSA in a non-sarcastic manner.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Oof. The DSA elected a guy to their governing board who didn't disclose that they currently work for a police union. A lot of people are understandably very upset about this. As someone who is, well, call it cautious about the DSA but also broadly wishes them well I'm honestly genuinely interested in how they handle this.

The Democratic party deals with these sorts of issues by everyone constantly being unhappy about everything but the DSA is rightfully trying to be a better organization than that. I hope they manage to find a solution to this that actually pleases almost everyone.
 
Regardless of how much worse Fox News is than anyone else I think in general these 24 hour political news networks are bad and we'd all be better off if people were forced to watch C-span or something instead

They should just be straight telling the news rather than linking things together crafting narratives and telling the audience how to feel or what to be angry about
 

tbm24

Member
In the sea obviously.

Do these people actually understand what they are asking for here and what would happen?

Given how enthusiastic they all seemed about it, clearly not. But I've noticed what seems to matter most to these groups is just rhetoric.
 

Diablos

Member
Regardless of how much worse Fox News is than anyone else I think in general these 24 hour political news networks are bad and we'd all be better off if people were forced to watch C-span or something instead

They should just be straight telling the news rather than linking things together crafting narratives and telling the audience how to feel or what to be angry about
But then people might come to their own conclusions that don't benefit a right wing agenda. Hence why this will never happen. They want to do the thinking for you.
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
guys, it isn't "from the river to the sea, Palestine will supplant the Israeli state and also kill all the Jews"

it's literally Palestine will be free

then again the ADL put them on some kind of enemies list for voting to endorse BDS so maybe I'm on the fringe on this issue
 

sphagnum

Banned
In the sea obviously.

Do these people actually understand what they are asking for here and what would happen?

TBH considering the amount of new people in the DSA I'm wondering how many of them are neophytes caught up in movementism and want to sound radical, and how many of them are legit proposing abolishing Israel entirely.

That's not what the resolution that they passed was about by the way, it was about endorsing BDS.
 
TBH considering the amount of new people in the DSA I'm wondering how many of them are neophytes caught up in movementism and want to sound radical, and how many of them are legit proposing abolishing Israel entirely.

That's not what the resolution that they passed was about by the way, it was about endorsing BDS.

Yeah, I just realized it is about BDS looking into it. I'm pretty sure a few individuals is probably asking for abolishing the Israel, but they don't really understanding what they are asking.

BDS is pretty radical of a position in the US. It appears like they are going to be pretty far left to the Democrats.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I agree that the US stance on Israel is not only too lenient but that what Israel is engaged in is probably criminal (I'm waffling here only because its not an issue I'm super well read on) but I've also become...disillusioned with BDS-esque tactics lately. Do we have evidence that boycotts and sanctions manage to hurt people in power without churning through hurting their citizens via economic hardship first?
 

sphagnum

Banned
Yeah, I just realized it is about BDS looking into it. I'm pretty sure a few individuals is probably asking for abolishing the Israel, but they don't really understanding what they are asking.

BDS is pretty radical of a position in the US. It appears like they are going to be pretty far left to the Democrats.

That's what they're angling for, yes. The DSA is an activist organization rather than a party, but they seek to work with and within political parties to push things leftward. So now that they have a higher profile they're going to try to push that Overton window left.

They also endorsed single payer healthcare and the abolition of the profit motive within the healthcare industry, which is again quite a bit further than what the furthest left Dems have proposed.
 
guys, it isn't "from the river to the sea, Palestine will supplant the Israeli state and also kill all the Jews"

it's literally Palestine will be free

then again the ADL put them on some kind of enemies list for voting to endorse BDS so maybe I'm on the fringe on this issue

I mean, it's the Hamas battle cry to kill all the Jews in Israel.

It's like shouting a confederacy slogan at a conservative conference while passing a statement praising the police.

Even if you don't know what the slogan means, I mean...
 

pigeon

Banned
guys, it isn't "from the river to the sea, Palestine will supplant the Israeli state and also kill all the Jews"

it's literally Palestine will be free

I mean, it says that Palestine will be free from the river to the sea. That implies that all of that land will be Palestine, right?

That's...all the land? The logical implication is that Israel doesn't exist.

I'm happy to accept that lots of them don't realize that's what that means, but, I'm pretty sure that is what it means?

then again the ADL put them on some kind of enemies list for voting to endorse BDS so maybe I'm on the fringe on this issue

I mean, I'm not sure about BDS, but it's a lot less extreme of a position.

Guess I have a video to bring up whenever anyone posts about the DSA in a non-sarcastic manner.

Just to be clear, I like the DSA in general. I think this particular thing is an example of what that other thread is talking about in terms of anti-Semitism creeping into leftist positions through oversimplified miscontextualization of the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not really saying that the DSA should be abolished, just that they should, you know, disavow wanting to eliminate Israel from the maps.
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
Oh shit, I didn't realize it was actually from Hamas. That's fucked up :\

I mean I can ironically get behind the Grey Wolves thing but that's internet humour, not actual public discourse

Bad look DSA

edit - I still don't think that particular verbiage necessarily means the destruction of Israel. But obviously given its provenance that's how it was intended.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Just to be clear, I like the DSA in general. I think this particular thing is an example of what that other thread is talking about in terms of anti-Semitism creeping into leftist positions through oversimplified miscontextualization of the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not really saying that the DSA should be abolished, just that they should, you know, disavow wanting to eliminate Israel from the maps.

I'm not advocating for them being abolished either. (Unless they actually start using that language explicitly).

But, it does underline the issue with these far-left groups. It really hurts their advocacy ability and eliminates any chance of getting elected to any office more important than animal control with that level of awareness (assuming they don't mean it in the sense they chanted).

Basically, if you are going to enter into the "fray", you should have a basic understanding of the situation, especially with something with such a mess of a history.

I mean, it's the Hamas battle cry to kill all the Jews in Israel.

It's like shouting a confederacy slogan at a conservative conference while passing a statement praising the police.

Even if you don't know what the slogan means, I mean...

Oh, I guess that kinda makes my post moot.
 

kirblar

Member
Just to be clear, I like the DSA in general. I think this particular thing is an example of what that other thread is talking about in terms of anti-Semitism creeping into leftist positions through oversimplified miscontextualization of the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not really saying that the DSA should be abolished, just that they should, you know, disavow wanting to eliminate Israel from the maps.
This is the issue w/ a number of stances/arguments that pop up (like "they didn't used to have issues w/ Jewish people till Israel popped up") - the question of "Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?" hangs over everything like a dark cloud because there's a very open question after hearing the argument about whether the person actually believes that to be true!
 
That's what they're angling for, yes. The DSA is an activist organization rather than a party, but they seek to work with and within political parties to push things leftward. So now that they have a higher profile they're going to try to push that Overton window left.

They also endorsed single payer healthcare and the abolition of the profit motive within the healthcare industry, which is again quite a bit further than what the furthest left Dems have proposed.

Can't really push the Democratic Party to the left than it already is, I think. Being a mainstream party they can't really go to the left too much than they already have. I think I see why a lot of self-proclaimed progressives and others criticize the Democratic Party.

The party is in the way. I think we are going to more of left-wing groups that are further to the left of the party is going to target the party more in the future, especially if the party doesn't go to the left as much as those left wing groups want.
 

sphagnum

Banned
I mean, it's the Hamas battle cry to kill all the Jews in Israel.

It's like shouting a confederacy slogan at a conservative conference while passing a statement praising the police.

Even if you don't know what the slogan means, I mean...

I'm not saying this isn't true, because I haven't heard that before so this is a legit question, but why does Hamas have a battle cry that rhymes in English? Is it something they changed around in translation to make it fit better?

Considering the politics of the Israel situation I think a better comparison would be if a group of activists was chanting a slogan created by a Native American terrorist organization that wanted to decolonize the US. Like, yeah, that's pretty stupid and won't happen and it's a two wrongs don't make a right scenario, but at the same time I would feel incredibly uncomfortable telling hypothetical Native Americans that I didnt understand why they might feel that way considering what my people have done to them. It kind of reminds me of the Iranian Death to America chant.
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
This is the issue w/ a number of stances/arguments that pop up (like "they didn't used to have issues w/ Jewish people till Israel popped up") - the question of "Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?" hangs over everything like a dark cloud because there's a very open question after hearing the argument about whether the person actually believes that to be true!

The thing is the argument then becomes "what is your definition of "Israel"".
 
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