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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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Soros? Hah, pull scary words out of a hat, sure! I don't even care if it's accurate or not, because it's hilarious. They can't even go a few days of relative calm without desperately seeking drama. Let's madlibs this one for "generic smear for person in Trump administration":

[Administration official] [verb] at [location] backed by [scary, preferably Jewish rich person]-funded group that helped [verb] [scary person or country] deal with/for [any name ending in Obama or Clinton].

"Trump Word Finder" for names of scary people or ideals that trigger people who don't remember quite why they should be triggered by those names.
 
To paraphrase Shinra: Shitty people are not unique to any country, party, or ideological movement. The problem w/ discussing Israel is that like many other topics, people only look at the one we share a language with.

The central problem in the conflict screwing everything up isn't "lack of education", its that among all sides in the conflict, there's a large group of people who want to wipe the other off the map. Literally. Not Figuratively.

I couldn't disagree more with this. The reason why they want to wipe out each other is often because of lack of education and because it's good for the government to have an enemy (and those governments often control education). It's much easier to think that Israel is worth wiping out if you don't believe that holocaust ever happened and Israel is just an illegal state.
 

chadskin

Member
But what if we made it one? to raise awareness?
It would backfire and every one would be memeing "adorable kitty hitler"

Kitler_1959295c.jpg
 

Ernest

Banned
So much for Kelly keeping Trump's twitter in check.

9 tweets this morning, railing against "fake news", senator Blumenthal and getting stoking the fires of an "us vs them" narrative.

What a fucking child.
 

Diablos

Member
So much for Kelly keeping Trump's twitter in check.

9 tweets this morning, railing against "fake news", senator Blumenthal and getting stoking the fires of an "us vs them" narrative.

What a fucking child.
Hasn't even been a year. Let that sink in.

Can't imagine how Obama feels every day knowing this clown succeeded him.
 

Ogodei

Member

It is. The woman they're describing? She doesn't exist. Somebody (from East of St. Petersburg and West of Vladivostok) made a bot account with using pictures of a black woman t-shirt ad model and named her Nicole Mincey, which the right-wing drainage ditch is then inventing biographies whole-cloth for.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
So much for Kelly keeping Trump's twitter in check.

9 tweets this morning, railing against "fake news", senator Blumenthal and getting stoking the fires of an "us vs them" narrative.

What a fucking child.

I don't think he or other top republicans have even mentioned the mosque bombing.
 

studyguy

Member
Trump had made it clear last week he'd still tweet even after Kelly's appointment.
The question was would they be toned down.

The obvious answer is lmao of course not.
 

pigeon

Banned
I tend to agree with the idea that Israel has no right to exist as a majority-Jewish ethnostate.

It's been a day but this statement still seems a little problematic to me. The vast majority of countries in the world are ethnically homogenous ethnostates. For example, see all of Europe. What makes Israel different?

If the problem is the political primacy of Judaism, that's still a messy argument. Israel is a theocratic republic, sure, but it's literally surrounded by other theocratic republics. Would you argue that none of them have the right to exist? That's a very pro-interventionist position!

To me the correct position is to just be explicit -- Israel doesn't have the right to control an occupied territory without giving the people in that territory the right to safety and self-determination. Whether that self-determination comes through Israel's political process and security, or whether it comes through their own mooted political process and security forces, doesn't really matter that much for them. But it probably matters for the current citizens of Israel.

My bet is that the UN eventually sorts it out in the 2030s or 2040s. There will come a time when the US will stop vetoing everything and one day a Security Council resolution will pass demanding total sanctions of Israel unless they grant Palestine territorial integrity within the 1967 borders.

I'm not sure about "total sanctions" but this is the angle I prefer to BDS.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Someone has an email problem.

http://www.postandcourier.com/polit...cle_db600c26-7871-11e7-9109-7bb3a89fa640.html

South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson enlisted the help of a central figure in the Statehouse corruption probe in an attempt to sideline the case's special prosecutor just as the investigation was about to zero in on Wilson’s close allies, according to emails obtained by The Post and Courier.

It’s a highly unusual move that legal observers say raises serious questions about the allegiances of the state’s chief law enforcement official and his willingness to meddle in matters in which he had already revealed a potential conflict.

Wilson, however, painted the emails as an innocent exchange with a trusted adviser with better grammar skills.

+2
Richard Quinn (copy) (copy) (copy)
Political strategist Richard Quinn.
John A. Carlos II
The emails, obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request, show Wilson used his private account to coordinate with his embattled political consultant Richard Quinn on an October 2014 letter aimed at derailing the investigation being conducted by Wilson’s handpicked special prosecutor, David Pascoe.

The exchange came as Pascoe prepared to dig deeper into a State Law Enforcement Division report detailing alleged misdeeds by sitting lawmakers. Named in that document were Quinn and his son, state Rep. Rick Quinn, who was also identified as a potential target of the probe.

Just a few weeks earlier, Wilson had told his chief deputy he had a potential conflict and needed to be "firewalled" on the matter.

But that didn't stop the attorney general from seeking advice from the elder Quinn on phrasing a letter to pull Pascoe off the case, the email chain shows.

Delicious.

No relation, by the way.

Thank God.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
It's been a day but this statement still seems a little problematic to me. The vast majority of countries in the world are ethnically homogenous ethnostates. For example, see all of Europe. What makes Israel different?

About a third of the members of the European Union have higher proportions of foreign-born citizens than the United States does, so if your definition of 'ethnically homogeneous ethnostate' encompasses 'all of Europe', it ought to encompass the United States as well.

This is an aside to the overall topic, but I see this mistake constantly being made in American discourse about European countries.
 

sphagnum

Banned
If the problem is the political primacy of Judaism, that's still a messy argument. Israel is a theocratic republic, sure, but it's literally surrounded by other theocratic republics. Would you argue that none of them have the right to exist? That's a very pro-interventionist position!

I mean they're all illegitimate since they aren't dictatorships of the proletariat buuuuuuuut it's stupid practically to try to overthrow them all.
 
Tweeting isn't the issue to me. Kelly's impossible task is in controlling the media Trump consumes. Politico mentioned that Kelly has nixed the ability of aides to drop random (often fake) news articles on the president's desk. Those articles often send him into the rages that result in unhinged twitter rants. But Kelly can't prevent Trump from watching television all night, early in the morning, etc.

The end game here is likely that some bombshell about the Mueller investigation will send Trump into a rage, he'll attempt to fire him, etc etc.
 

CCS

Banned
Incidentally, I would very very strongly recommend that everyone read "Denying the Holocaust" by Deborah Lipstadt. Apart from being an excellent book in terms of the subject matter, a lot of what she talks about in terms of Holocaust deniers presenting what they say as "the other side" of a two sided argument and how they make this such a successful approach applies to a lot of other far right and alt right talking points.
 

kirblar

Member
About a third of the members of the European Union have higher proportions of foreign-born citizens than the United States does, so if your definition of 'ethnically homogeneous ethnostate' encompasses 'all of Europe', it ought to encompass the United States as well.

This is an aside to the overall topic, but I see this mistake constantly being made in American discourse about European countries.
But that means the majority do not! They also do not have no strings attached birthright citizenship! (Also, the proportion of "foreign-born" citizens is not what you would measure ethnic homogeneity by!)

Is anything you post actually argued in good faith?
 

Ogodei

Member
It's been a day but this statement still seems a little problematic to me. The vast majority of countries in the world are ethnically homogenous ethnostates. For example, see all of Europe. What makes Israel different?

If the problem is the political primacy of Judaism, that's still a messy argument. Israel is a theocratic republic, sure, but it's literally surrounded by other theocratic republics. Would you argue that none of them have the right to exist? That's a very pro-interventionist position!

To me the correct position is to just be explicit -- Israel doesn't have the right to control an occupied territory without giving the people in that territory the right to safety and self-determination. Whether that self-determination comes through Israel's political process and security, or whether it comes through their own mooted political process and security forces, doesn't really matter that much for them. But it probably matters for the current citizens of Israel.



I'm not sure about "total sanctions" but this is the angle I prefer to BDS.

It's more that nobody has the "right" to exist as an ethnostate. I can see how that statement came off a little ethnic-cleansingy.

It was wrong in the past when people ethnically cleansed territory to make an ethnostate, and it's wrong of Israel to do it today. The argument against the one-state solution is that Israel has a "right" to be a Jewish-majority state, and i'd say, nobody has that right. That right was an invention of the post WWI order, it was a better alternative to the status-quo-ante but was also propped up by a lot of violence and forced relocation, and should not be held up as something Israel gets to do today.

Basically Israel has no right to deny citizenship to people currently living under their rule. They must either grant Palestine full sovereignty or they must naturalize every Palestinian in the territories.

Right of Return is the stickier issue, given that the stateless nature of Palestinian refugees outside of Palestine has only been preserved by the artificial efforts of Arab states to maintain the sense of crisis. That will be a harder nut to crack, and probably involve Israel paying out large amounts of reparations to Palestinian refugees as well as to the countries which will agree to naturalize the Palestinian refugees (per capita cash to families, but also large lump sum payments to places like Jordan and Lebanon).
 

daedalius

Member
So apparently my foxnews bot mother is convinced the Republicans are pushing through a tax cut AND tax reform?

She really seems to be holding her breath for this tax cut(and reform? or reform? hell I don't know)! I didn't have the heart to tell her it is probably going to be about as successful as healthcare reform was. As if they'd be seeing any significant savings; they make good money, but not enough for whatever tax cuts trump pushes through.

They really don't have money because I'm fairly sure they follow that prosperity bible shit, where the more garbage you own, the more holy you are? Crazy shit. Maybe they could sell a couple TVs if they don't have any food.
 
Tweeting isn't the issue to me. Kelly's impossible task is in controlling the media Trump consumes. Politico mentioned that Kelly has nixed the ability of aides to drop random (often fake) news articles on the president's desk. Those articles often send him into the rages that result in unhinged twitter rants. But Kelly can't prevent Trump from watching television all night, early in the morning, etc.

The end game here is likely that some bombshell about the Mueller investigation will send Trump into a rage, he'll attempt to fire him, etc etc.
The problem with Trump's tweeting habit isn't really the fact that he tweets, it's that he tweets out incomprehensible, rage-filled garbage.

And he decides to announce sweeping policy changes over it rather than go through the proper channels (see the trans ban).

There was an article on DailyKos about how the trans ban was announced the way it was. Trump was tired of listening to his legal advisers explaining to him the problems with unilaterally banning trans service members (this was simplified from the "military shouldn't pay for medical care" issue because Trump couldn't grasp the nuance of that), so he just tweeted it out and expected them to make it happen.

Trump is still in CEO mode where he expects he can just proclaim something and lounge about his golf course for three weeks while the pencil pushers back home get it done by the time he gets back. On top of that he's an incredibly stupid individual who barely understands what he's doing at even the most basic level, so 1) the tasks he's delegating out are nearly impossible to implement, and 2) it doesn't work like that anyway you dumb fat fuck.
 

UberTag

Member
Tweeting isn't the issue to me. Kelly's impossible task is in controlling the media Trump consumes. Politico mentioned that Kelly has nixed the ability of aides to drop random (often fake) news articles on the president's desk. Those articles often send him into the rages that result in unhinged twitter rants. But Kelly can't prevent Trump from watching television all night, early in the morning, etc.

The end game here is likely that some bombshell about the Mueller investigation will send Trump into a rage, he'll attempt to fire him, etc etc.
Can't he install a presidential V-chip into his television? Or find a way to turn back all of his clocks and funnel programming to him on tape delay after it has been properly curated?
 

Ogodei

Member
Can't he install a presidential V-chip into his television? Or find a way to turn back all of his clocks and funnel programming to him on tape delay after it has been properly curated?

Cut the cord to the White House TV's and make it all CCTV that flows from a curated news feed with the timestamps of all the channels cropped out.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Fox and friends just asking questions about Muellers bias and unconstitutional investigation into trump.

They can do this as much as they want, but if the hammer eventually comes down, they won't have any ground to stand on.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
But that means the majority do not! They also do not have no strings attached birthright citizenship! (Also, the proportion of "foreign-born" citizens is not what you would measure ethnic homogeneity by!)

Is anything you post actually argued in good faith?

So tomorrow I'll be granted land where the majority are native Americans, and should therefore be allowed to make it ethno-centric/white, after a sufficient influx of other white people?
 

kirblar

Member
So tomorrow I'll be granted land where the majority are native Americans, and should therefore be allowed to make it ethno-centric/white, after a sufficient influx of other white people?
Do you have a time machine that allows you to go back and stop them from settling multiple generations of people there?

If you don't, I don't care what you think about whether that should have occurred or not as it pertains as to what we do going forward because we cannot change what has happened. Only what we do going forward.

edit: On the subject of homogeneity, one of the reasons you have the rise of White Supremacy in rural America is because rural America is far, far more homogenous than the rest of the country! By a massive degree.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
But that means the majority do not!

I was responding to pigeon, who explicitly said 'all'.

They also do not have no strings attached birthright citizenship!

This does not affect that statistic either way.

(Also, the proportion of "foreign-born" citizens is not what you would measure ethnic homogeneity by!)

In the context of talking about homogeneity, the important part is the extent to which cultural barriers make extending particular policies difficult. The percentage of citizens born abroad is a good if not perfect approximation of the number of citizens facing large cultural barriers.

Is anything you post actually argued in good faith?

Is everything you post this dense or do you save it for responding to me?
 

kirblar

Member
IIn the context of talking about homogeneity, the important part is the extent to which cultural barriers make extending particular policies difficult. The percentage of citizens born abroad is a good if not perfect approximation of the number of citizens facing large cultural barriers.
It may be a decent one for homogenous countries w/ a limited influx of foreign-born citizens, since you can expect the vast majority to be of the dominant group. It is not a good approximation for countries with existing native-born heterogenous populations like the United States.
 
In the context of talking about homogeneity, the important part is the extent to which cultural barriers make extending particular policies difficult. The percentage of citizens born abroad is a good if not perfect approximation of the number of citizens facing large cultural barriers.

The context was ethnic homogeneity, not cultural integration.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I thought CNN posted a 🔥🔥 article about Trump not watching CNN.... But it was posted by Cilizza so I clicked away.
 
I still think Fox got tipped off about something big because almost overnight the argument went from "Trump didnt do it" to "Its not illegal and Mueller is biased".
 

Sharpeye

Member
I still think Fox got tipped off about something big because almost overnight the argument went from "Trump didnt do it" to "Its not illegal and Mueller is biased".

I would just chalk it up to Fox news being Fox news, just trying to appeal to their viewers. But who knows, there seems to always be a bomb right around the corner when it comes to this administration.
 

zchen

Member
If Xi decides to go to war with a nuclear power over this stupid border area, he immediately passes Trump/Erdogan/Maduro as dumbest world leader.

Modi decides to go invade a nuclear power over this stupid border area, he already passes Trump/Erdogan/Maduro as dumbest world leader.
 

Wilsongt

Member
where the fuck are my leaks?!

Being shut off by Sessions, I am sure.

Though i think Session is really stretching the DoJ's resources trying to go after illegals, sanctuary cities, black people, affirmative action, Chicago, leakers, black people, civil rights, black people, black people, and black people.
 

pigeon

Banned
About a third of the members of the European Union have higher proportions of foreign-born citizens than the United States does, so if your definition of 'ethnically homogeneous ethnostate' encompasses 'all of Europe', it ought to encompass the United States as well.

This is an aside to the overall topic, but I see this mistake constantly being made in American discourse about European countries.

I'm happy to revise to "most of Europe."

I, and perhaps other people, was primarily thinking about the fact that most European nations were founded as ethnonationalist entities and America explicitly wasn't. The differences in ethnic diversity seem likely to ultimately descend from that founding distinction. But you're right that some European nations have risen above that!

I mean they're all illegitimate since they aren't dictatorships of the proletariat buuuuuuuut it's stupid practically to try to overthrow them all.

You're like the worst Trotskyite ever

It's more that nobody has the "right" to exist as an ethnostate. I can see how that statement came off a little ethnic-cleansingy.

It was wrong in the past when people ethnically cleansed territory to make an ethnostate, and it's wrong of Israel to do it today. The argument against the one-state solution is that Israel has a "right" to be a Jewish-majority state, and i'd say, nobody has that right. That right was an invention of the post WWI order, it was a better alternative to the status-quo-ante but was also propped up by a lot of violence and forced relocation, and should not be held up as something Israel gets to do today.

Basically Israel has no right to deny citizenship to people currently living under their rule. They must either grant Palestine full sovereignty or they must naturalize every Palestinian in the territories.

Some of the above strikes me as pretty sticky but I'm happy to agree on the bolded. If Israel would like to declare the occupied territory Israel proper and grant all the citizens of Israel equal rights to self-determination, that would be fine. Or they can release the people in that occupied territory to seek their own self-determined government. Not really my business to tell them which way to go, but the UN is pretty clear that they should do one of those two things.

This does not affect that statistic either way.

The lack of birthright citizenship for immigrants does seem notable when talking about the overall concept of ethnonationalism, as above, even if it does not affect this particular statistic, which is merely an aid to understanding.
 

Armaros

Member
Being shut off by Sessions, I am sure.

Though i think Session is really stretching the DoJ's resources trying to go after illegals, sanctuary cities, black people, affirmative action, Chicago, leakers, black people, civil rights, black people, black people, and black people.

Especially considering that this entire administration is criminally understaffed.

(and staffed by would-be-criminals)
 
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