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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A medicare buy-in option is the easiest and has the least probability for blowback out all the options at the moment. Businesses should also have the ability to sign up.

It's about the only way I see to get rid of employer health care in our lifetimes other than a huge collapse.

When a large enough chunk of employees have Medicare through their employer, the concept of having the same insurance by themselves will make it possible without riots.
 

Valhelm

contribute something

Check the data. An overwhelming majority of Americans want proactive policies that give people healthcare. A third of all polled recipients explicitly desire single payer, equal to the number of people who are fine with our current system and greatly outnumbering the sliver of our population who wants less government intervention.

As dialogue healthcare continues, the amount of people who desire single payer is only going to increase.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Check the data. An overwhelming majority of Americans want proactive policies that give people healthcare. A third of all polled recipients explicitly desire single payer, equal to the number of people who are fine with our current system and greatly outnumbering the sliver of our population who wants less government intervention.

As dialogue healthcare continues, the amount of people who desire single payer is only going to increase.

Putting people on medicare all at once will be a disaster.
Adding that option to the marketplace for everyone will stabilize the markets, and convince those who like things as they are now to consider your proposal.
 
Soooooo, about the president not being able to pardon state crimes ...

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3599.01v1

I remember this being brought up last summer regarding delegates maybe being bribed, but I've been wondering lately if the feds might be poking around what happened at the RNC in Cleveland, especially if they're targeting Flynn and Manafort. And if they do and find violations that broke our state laws, if there might be some additional state prosecutions ...

DeWine doesn't have the balls to charge anyone if anything happened at the RNC, though. He has a governorship to win in 2018 and he needs Trumpy's help there.
 
If calling the ACA Obamacare helped republicans drag down the approval of the plan.. why don't we just name the next healthcare bill after someone everyone really likes?

Like.. Jimmy Stewart Care
 

Sianos

Member
hannity: manafort's mistake was that he didn't smash all of the evidence, like hillary's emails!!!

also hannity: just kidding, but what about hillary's emails for real though?!

and best of all

rivera: the real danger is that manafort might snitch on trump

what happened to the presumption of their innocence, fox?
 
hannity: manafort's mistake was that he didn't smash all of the evidence, like hillary's emails!!!

akso hannity: just kidding, but what about hillary's emails for real though

I feel like actually putting Hillary in jail would be the biggest blow to republicans, because what would they talk about then? Their entire platform depends on the words "But hillary".
 

thefro

Member
Putting people on medicare all at once will be a disaster.
Adding that option to the marketplace for everyone will stabilize the markets, and convince those who like things as they are now to consider your proposal.

Yeah, people can push for single-player to move the Overton window, but pragmatically a well-done public option on the exchanges (and that businesses could also buy into for employee coverage) would be a big step towards that and would be much more popular.

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10899790/single-payer-americare
 

kirblar

Member
The North Korea hysteria is quite something.

Also, no one wants to work with poor Nikki:

https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/895426915439456256
Reading the tweetchain, there seems to be an interesting set of camps packing up. One is Obama holdovers who you'd expect to leave eventually. Other is GOP establishment types who you wouldn't. She's hearing that Haley is keeping a lot of stuff confined to her inner circle she brought in from SC with her.

Probably not the best thing for policy or consistency in the admin, but makes total sense for her future political career, as she's currently the only high-profile person in the admin who might have one in 4 years.
Yeah, people can push for single-player to move the Overton window, but pragmatically a well-done public option on the exchanges (and that businesses could also buy into for employee coverage) would be a big step towards that and would be much more popular.

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10899790/single-payer-americare
Bernie even started emphasizing this in speeches a month or two back.
 

Teggy

Member
Well that Jason Miller story finally shook out. Crazy.

http://pagesix.com/2017/08/09/ex-tr...e-child-after-campaign-trail-sex-scandal/amp/

Summary: Miller and AJ Delgado had a drunken tryst following a visit to a strip club before one of the Pres debates - press were present so it was reported at the time. Miller turned down the WH Comms job likely because he knew he had gotten Delgado pregnant. Miller had a child with his wife in January and somehow salvaged his marriage. Delgado had her baby in July and only communicates with Miller via lawyers.
 
Well that Jason Miller story finally shook out. Crazy.

http://pagesix.com/2017/08/09/ex-tr...e-child-after-campaign-trail-sex-scandal/amp/

Summary: Miller and AJ Delgado had a drunken tryst following a visit to a strip club before one of the Pres debates - press were present so it was reported at the time. Miller turned down the WH Comms job likely because he knew he had gotten Delgado pregnant. Miller had a child with his wife in January and somehow salvaged his marriage. Delgado had her baby in July and only communicates with Miller via lawyers.
Holy shit. So it was true.
 
Well that Jason Miller story finally shook out. Crazy.

http://pagesix.com/2017/08/09/ex-tr...e-child-after-campaign-trail-sex-scandal/amp/

Summary: Miller and AJ Delgado had a drunken tryst following a visit to a strip club before one of the Pres debates - press were present so it was reported at the time. Miller turned down the WH Comms job likely because he knew he had gotten Delgado pregnant. Miller had a child with his wife in January and somehow salvaged his marriage. Delgado had her baby in July and only communicates with Miller via lawyers.

They boned once and she's pregnant?

I mean. Maybe they were super (un)lucky.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, people can push for single-player to move the Overton window, but pragmatically a well-done public option on the exchanges (and that businesses could also buy into for employee coverage) would be a big step towards that and would be much more popular.

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10899790/single-payer-americare
This is why the loss of the public option and the supreme courts neutering of the Medicaid expansion were so devestating. It was probably the best America could have gotten for a decade or two.
 

Teggy

Member
Nikki Haley @nikkihaley
Replying to @Evan_Rosenfeld and @maggieNYT
Thanks for your concern.Both Jonathan&Steve have recently encountered family concerns.They will always be a part of the team & dear friends.
11:03 PM · Aug 9, 2017

"Family concerns". It's an awfully common reason for leaving this admin.
 

Blader

Member
My phone just went off with an Amber alert that I legit thought for a second was going to be a North Korean war notification.
 
I hate Now This, so excuse me for the source (and caption), but this clip from 2003 was probably some of the most pervasive I've seen Bernie talk about racism within the WWC and is basically two steps from calling every Republican a racist. I don't think I ever heard him talk this cuttingly about these issues during the campaign, and he kind of danced around them.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/895284294259585024

Anyways, apropos of nothing. If he had actually been more forceful about race, sex, sexual orientation as he was with class (and as he is here) and worked on making inroads with communities, I wonder if he'd be the nominee.
 
I hate Now This, so excuse me for the source (and caption), but this clip from 2003 was probably some of the most pervasive I've seen Bernie talk about racism within the WWC and is basically two steps from calling every Republican a racist. I don't think I ever heard him talk this cuttingly about these issues during the campaign, and he kind of danced around them.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/895284294259585024

Anyways, apropos of nothing. If he had actually been more forceful about race, sex, sexual orientation as he was with class (and as he is here) and worked on making inroads with communities, I wonder if he'd be the nominee.

This is fantastic.

He likely would have done much better framing his position like this rather than what he went with.

edit: Those replies. It's already starting. 2020 is going to be fucking miserable. Kill me.
 
This is why the loss of the public option and the supreme courts neutering of the Medicaid expansion were so devestating. It was probably the best America could have gotten for a decade or two.

How so? The public options that were proposed were watered down versions as far as I recall: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/11/mr_level_playing_field.html

In addition, we know Obama and the Dems exceeded their constitutional authority as it pertains to expanding Medicaid. If they had done health care right and made different trade offs, then America could've done better without the courts stepping in to protect the states. Now Americans are stuck with Obama's plan and have to dedicate even more time, effort and debate to address fundamental problems in their health care system.
 
I hate Now This, so excuse me for the source (and caption), but this clip from 2003 was probably some of the most pervasive I've seen Bernie talk about racism within the WWC and is basically two steps from calling every Republican a racist. I don't think I ever heard him talk this cuttingly about these issues during the campaign, and he kind of danced around them.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/895284294259585024

Anyways, apropos of nothing. If he had actually been more forceful about race, sex, sexual orientation as he was with class (and as he is here) and worked on making inroads with communities, I wonder if he'd be the nominee.

...I'm baffled he didn't run with this in 2016
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
How so? The public options that were proposed were watered down versions as far as I recall: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/11/mr_level_playing_field.html

In addition, we know Obama and the Dems exceeded their constitutional authority as it pertains to expanding Medicaid. If they had done health care right and made different trade offs, then America could've done better without the courts stepping in to protect the states. Now Americans are stuck with Obama's plan and have to dedicate even more time, effort and debate to address fundamental problems in their health care system.

Care to give some examples, or are you just going to continue being a laughing stock?
Bonus points if you manage to suggest something that Republicans would have voted for.

It's so easy to say "do something better", it's amazing after the last 7 months you still fall for the same thing.
 

kirblar

Member
Show me the stats. I think most Bernie voters voted for Hillary in the general, not "No one or Trump!"
Do you do anything other than try to "correct" people when you post?

It's literally all you do. You don't offer constructive advice. You don't argue a point. You just jump in to tell people they're wrong.

We know that Obama defectors were basing their votes on cultural/identity issues. Presumably, people who voted Clinton in the primary? Likely not those Obama defectors. So that would mean they were either in Sanders' camp or never in either to begin with.

https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
figure8_drutman_e4aabc39aab12644609701bbacdff252.png
 
In the primaries? Sanders, no one or Trump!

The latter two would have seen upticks relative to '16.

Bernie or Trumpers is such an insignificant portion of whoever ended up voting. And even more paltry in comparison to the number of black voters he could have picked up with better messaging and rhetoric. He got 43% of the democratic primary vote. I refuse to believe any notion that suggests massive crowds of people would have up and walked out of his rallies had he communicated social justice reforms more succinctly like he did in that video. Saying that is essentially also arguing that the far left is more incompatible with civil rights reforms, which again, I don't buy.
 

numble

Member
Do you do anything other than try to "correct" people when you post?

It's literally all you do. You don't offer constructive advice. You don't argue a point. You just jump in to tell people they're wrong.

We know that Obama defectors were basing their votes on cultural/identity issues. Presumably, people who voted Clinton in the primary? Likely not those Obama defectors. So that would mean they were either in Sanders' camp or never in either to begin with.

Who am I supposed to offer constructive advice to? On what? If it is to people that are wrong, the advice is stop spreading fake news.

Arguing that someone is wrong is arguing a point. Why should we let people spread opinions that are based on falsehoods as fact. That is why we don't like fake news after all.

I don't understand why you think it should be okay to not correct people if they are wrong.

Obama general defectors were not Obama primary voters. You are basically arguing that voters that swung from Obama to Trump in the general election were the voters that allowed Bernie to run far in the primary. Bernie ran far because the field was cleared and the primary is allocated proportionally, it was not because of voters that ended up voting for Trump.

If you have evidence that Bernie ran far in the primary because of Obama voters that ended up switching to Trump, please present it.
 

kirblar

Member
Bernie or Trumpers is such an insignificant portion of whoever ended up voting. And even more paltry in comparison to the number of black voters he could have picked up with better messaging and rhetoric. He got 43% of the democratic primary vote. I refuse to believe any notion that suggests massive crowds of people would have up and walked out of his rallies had he communicated social justice reforms more succinctly like he did in that video. Saying that is essentially also arguing that the far left is more incompatible with civil rights reforms, which again, I don't buy.
Yes, if Bernie had bothered to learn how to talk to a core Dem constituency, he could have done better. It likely would have cost him votes w/ his core constinuency, but that's a trade he had to make because his core constituency wasn't big enough. But that's different than just "talking more forcefully", that's putting in effort he never did to overcome the fact that he had lived in and represented the most rural, third most white state w/ the highest proportion of black residents incarcerated in the nation.

The problem is that a number of (white) people on the right and as we've seen, on the left, freak the fuck out when anything involving minorities is discussed. It overrides everything else for them. You can talk for 30 minutes about economics, jobs, healthcare. But spend 5 talking about BLM and that's all they're going to focus on. It actively upsets them. They cannot disassociate it from their own identity and experiences and talk about it in a rational manner.

Bernie actively and deliberately chose not to set those people off by just going full economic populist all the time and skirting those types of strong talks.

I'm actually not sure it was "Bernie or Trumpers" here so much as it was "Trump First, Bernie Second", if that makes sense? The WV primaries were filled w/ a lot of Trumpers throwing votes his way (cause it was late in the process and the GOP primary was over while the D one technically wasn't. I think this has been part of the toxic stew and crossover we've seen before/after the election.
 
Yes, if Bernie had bothered to learn how to talk to a core Dem constituency, he could have done better. It likely would have cost him votes w/ his core constinuency, but that's a trade he had to make because his core constituency wasn't big enough. But that's different than just "talking more forcefully", that's putting in effort he never did to overcome the fact that he had lived in and represented the most rural, third most white state w/ the highest proportion of black residents incarcerated in the nation.

The problem is that a number of (white) people on the right and as we've seen, on the left, freak the fuck out when anything involving minorities is discussed. It overrides everything else for them. You can talk for 30 minutes about economics, jobs, healthcare. But spend 5 talking about BLM and that's all they're going to focus on. It actively upsets them. They cannot disassociate it from their own identity and experiences and talk about it in a rational manner.

I'm actually not sure it was "Bernie or Trumpers" here so much as it was "Trump First, Bernie Second", if that makes sense? The WV primaries were filled w/ a lot of Trumpers throwing votes his way (cause it was late in the process and the GOP primary was over while the D one technically wasn't. I think this has been part of the toxic stew and crossover we've seen before/after the election.

I think it's worth pointing out that Bernie actually did make attempts to reach out and talk about minority voter issues and didn't completely avoid them in the same way a Republican or modern dixiecrat would. It's not like he refused to talk about them entirely; it's just that his attempts were poor and unconvincing to the people who he was trying to convince. I'd say Bernie's white rural base was convinced that he legitimately did care about minority voter issues; and many who lived in very white, rural areas without much contact with minority voters didn't get why his approach wasn't working. Maybe I'm off base here, but imo, to them "I marched with MLK", and an actual break down or better reach outs to minority voters aren't any different because they aren't really equipped to parse them out. Or aren't as sensitive to the differences and nuance talking about these issues. So I don't believe replacing his failed attempts for minority voter reach outs with rhetoric that would actually work would lose him any significant amount of support. It likely would have effected his general election polling or strength matched up against Trump to some degree but from a primary standpoint I don't see it.
 
Sweet jesus, the AJ Delgado thing was real?!? Score one for "conspiracy theories that sound so randomly ridiculous that maybe are true because no one would ever waste their time making up something so stupid." Why was the press at a strip club? And why were the two of them... you know, forget it. I feel bad for his wife and that's about all.
Well, there's also how many shots they had during their one encounter. No way do you only hit the high note, so to speak, once on a drunken affair after a strip club.
This is a shockingly astute observation.

Also, going back to a suggestion last page:

eJ1NJdh.png
 
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