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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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V

VendettaRed07

Member
Wasn't blaming Bernie for anything.The tldr version of what I was trying to say was. "If he runs again I hope he changes his messaging so he would have a chance at doing better with people he didn't do well with last time because of a video that seemingly displayed he could approach specific topics better than he showed last time''. Thats all.

I also probably made some dumb assertions but I don't like how split different factions of the party are getting and I'd like it if different people started brainstorming plans to bring people together rather than gearing up for a shit fest thats just going to make the gap wider
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I feel I recall a conversation from a while ago bemoaning the e-mails Democratic fundraisers were sending. I was reminded of that conversation when I found this article ("The Democratic Party’s Looming Fundraising Crisis"). It goes into messaging issues and how the party might be able to course correct. Not sure its an uplifting read but hopefully its something that makes its way to Democratic leadership.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Crocodile said:
I feel I recall a conversation from a while ago bemoaning the e-mails Democratic fundraisers were sending. I was reminded of that conversation when I found this article ("The Democratic Party’s Looming Fundraising Crisis"). It goes into messaging issues and how the party might be able to course correct. Not sure its an uplifting read but hopefully its something that makes its way to Democratic leadership.
Click to expand...

I wish they would just send me emails, they send alot of physical mail, waste of money and paper.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
So on the way to work this morning right wing radio did an entire segment on how crazy this Manafort scandal is and how cries of fake news only work for so long .... they then followed up that segment up with another 10 minute segment that can be described as "obama whataboutism". Literally listed Obama scandals (half of them manufactured).

I suppose we're shifting into another gear here. It was "no russian collusion", then it was "collusion itself isn't illegal" and now it's "well it's illegal but what president doesn't have scandals"
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Barzul said:
The alt-right is boycotting Google? Fucking lol.
Click to expand...

Oh, so is that what this is?

DG0c4RQV0AAi-WE.jpg
Click to expand...
 
C

Chained Prometheus

Member
Fenderputty said:
So on the way to work this morning right wing radio did an entire segment on how crazy this Manafort scandal is and how cries of fake news only work for so long .... they then followed up that segment up with another 10 minute segment that can be described as "obama whataboutism". Literally listed Obama scandals (half of them manufactured).

I suppose we're shifting into another gear here. It was "no russian collusion", then it was "collusion itself isn't illegal" and now it's "well it's illegal but what president doesn't have scandals"
Click to expand...

Basically. It's the political equivalent of the Five Stages of Grief.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Chained Prometheus said:
Basically. It's the political equivalent of the Five Stages of Grief.
Click to expand...

Considering the host is old enough to have lived through the cold war, I'm shocked he didn't notice the irony of using a Russian cold war propaganda tool as a means to obfuscate the current president chumming it up with Russians.

I'm not shocked
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Speaking of republican voter suppression:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat..._in_area_with_black_democrats_after_2008.html

In 2008, Barack Obama squeaked out an unexpected win in Indiana thanks in part to his huge margin of victory in Marion County, which has a large population of black Democrats. The state's Republicans got to work right away, cutting early voting in Marion County, which includes the state capital of Indianapolis, while expanding it in a nearby suburban county filled with white Republican voters.

That's the distressing but entirely predictable upshot of a blockbuster report published by the Indianapolis Star on Thursday. The Star found that between 2008 and 2016, Republican officials reduced the number of early voting stations in Marion County from three to one, resulting in a 26 percent decline in absentee voting in the 2016 presidential election. (Early votes are cast via absentee ballots.) Meanwhile, officials added two early voting stations to the neighboring Hamilton County, which is populated primarily by white Republicans. The county saw a 63 percent increase in absentee voting in 2016. There is now one early voting station for every 100,000 voters in Hamilton County and one for every 700,000 voters in Marion County. In total, the number of people who voted in Marion County decreased by 11,261 between 2008 and 2016 and increased in Hamilton County by 27,376—this ”despite an increase of registered voters in both counties," the Star reports.
Click to expand...

I mean, look at this crap:

Then, in 2013, the Republican-dominated state legislature passed a law that effectively barred ”counties with populations over 325,000" from opening more than one early voting site. The bill was obviously designed to target Marion County, in addition to Lake and Allen counties, which also have sizable minority populations. County election boards could only override the law with the unanimous consent of all members. The Republican member of the Marion County election board has consistently refused to allow the opening of more than one early voting site.
Click to expand...

More at the link.

I know it has been said before but it bears repeating: The governor races may be the most important battles for the democrats in 2018.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

Mitch, get back to work and put Repeal & Replace, Tax Reform & Cuts and a great Infrastructure Bill on my desk for signing. You can do it!
Click to expand...

Look at Mr. Passive-Aggressive over here.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
whyamihere said:
I actually think precinct closures do more than voter ID laws.
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Agreed.

Also, it's harder to justify to people IMO than voter ID laws which a lot of people don't "get" why they are problematic.

If we make it more aware that they are shutting down voting locations to increase lines and wait times I believe thats a more transparent attempt. Because there's no "integrity of the vote" line there. It's just blatantly discouraging people from voting by making it take way too much time.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Futurevoid said:
Putin and Alabama. An unknown love fest.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-republican-popularity-alabama-senate-primary

This is depressing, frightening and stunning all at once.
Click to expand...

It's not remotely stunning, IMO. People play up the corruption stuff with Russia, but fundamentally Republicans have way more in common with Putin (religious conservatism, fascistic tendencies, hawkishness, crony capitalism) than they do with the Dems. It's not remotely shocking that, after decades of dehumanization of liberals by the Republican media establishment, the base would warm to Putin. He's basically a Republican already!
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
VendettaRed07 said:
It's a start. But need to aim higher. That margin is too slim.

Needs to be closer to the 64 seat gain GOP got in 2010 than a barely achieved majority.
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Honestly even if we just hit 218 I'd be happy, even if it meant guys like Collin Peterson and Dan Lipinski (who we need to primary immediately) held up good legislation.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Plinko said:
Look at Mr. Passive-Aggressive over here.
Click to expand...

Says man on vacation.

VendettaRed07 said:
Agreed.

Also, it's harder to justify to people IMO than voter ID laws which a lot of people don't "get" why they are problematic.

If we make it more aware that they are shutting down voting locations to increase lines and wait times I believe thats a more transparent attempt. Because there's no "integrity of the vote" line there. It's just blatantly discouraging people from voting by making it take way too much time.
Click to expand...

Fighting voter ID is a losing issue, I think. We should just go all in on it and pass a Federal ID Act that sends every citizen a new government ID that by law passes every voter ID requirement.
 
B

Blader

Member
Crocodile said:
I feel I recall a conversation from a while ago bemoaning the e-mails Democratic fundraisers were sending. I was reminded of that conversation when I found this article ("The Democratic Party’s Looming Fundraising Crisis"). It goes into messaging issues and how the party might be able to course correct. Not sure its an uplifting read but hopefully its something that makes its way to Democratic leadership.
Click to expand...

On the one hand, I do agree that the DNCC/DSCC/DCCC need to kill these "All hope is lost!!!" emails. They're fucking annoying, badly written, and telling people that elections are over days before the election is held are counter-productive and defeating. These emails are often the exact, literal opposite of the message that the Democratic Party and campaigns should be putting forward.

On the other hand...I think it's telling that the examples called out in this article all presidential campaigns: Bernie/Trump in 2016, Obama in 2008/2012, Dean in 2004. It's much easier for small-dollar donors to want give money to a movement, and feel like they're a part of something greater than themselves, when there's a person and personality to embody that movement. The author even points out that, despite the dismal fundraising emails, Ossoff scored huge amounts of small-dollar donations -- it's because there was a name and a face for voters to match their dollars to. Who's going to feel like they're part of the next "Change we can believe in" or "Make America great again" movement when the recepient of their hard-earned money is a faceless, age-old, establishment institution? The "Democratic Party" doesn't get people excited; Democratic candidates and campaigns get people excited.

I don't want to dismiss Dems surrendering the lead in small-dollar contributions as if that's not a serious problem; it is, for sure. But, like with the constant bemoaning late last year/earlier this year of "Where are our leaders?!?!", I feel like this is an issue that also (partly) can correct itself just by going through a cycle of candidates and primary campaigns that can give voters a name and a face to feel inspired by -- and inspired enough to want donate to.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Poodlestrike said:
It's not remotely stunning, IMO. People play up the corruption stuff with Russia, but fundamentally Republicans have way more in common with Putin (religious conservatism, fascistic tendencies, hawkishness, crony capitalism) than they do with the Dems. It's not remotely shocking that, after decades of dehumanization of liberals by the Republican media establishment, the base would warm to Putin. He's basically a Republican already!
Click to expand...

At the same time, if Xi ordered a bunch of Chinese hackers to release a bunch of damaging documents on Trump and the GOP prior to 2018 or 2020 elections that helped lead to Dem wins I think it's unavoidable his favorables would be higher amongst liberals or you'd get a lot of people going around thanking Xi saying how great he is. Even people on here would be praising him. This is just where hyper partisanship has gotten us.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Futurevoid said:
Putin and Alabama. An unknown love fest.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-republican-popularity-alabama-senate-primary

This is depressing, frightening and stunning all at once.
Click to expand...

Mostly seems to be about how Russian ideology and Republican right ideology is more similar than Republicans and Dems which is true. That said, when asked more about opinions on Russia specifically, it seemed there were more answers about them being untrustworthy which would probably line up with the poll from Fox News on how most Republicans still view Russia negatively.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
Fighting voter ID is a losing issue, I think. We should just go all in on it and pass a Federal ID Act that sends every citizen a new government ID that by law passes every voter ID requirement.
Click to expand...

I agree but at the same time idk how beneficial that would be even if we managed to get an ID to everyone in the country if polling locations continue to be tactically closed down.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
RustyNails said:
I dont understand this strategy. What GOP options are left for Repeal and Replace? Why would McConnell want to reignite the fight, especially when McCain is out for next 40 days?
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Trump's just saying shit to his base which hopefully deflects blame from Trump himself.
 
B

Blader

Member
RustyNails said:
I dont understand this strategy. What GOP options are left for Repeal and Replace? Why would McConnell want to reignite the fight, especially when McCain is out for next 40 days?
Click to expand...

Do you think he understands any of the options that were on the table in the first place?

Trump's view is extremely simplistic. GOP has been pledging Obamacare repeal for years. GOP now has majorities in Congress and a president willing to sign literally anything put in front of him. So naturally, this should have happened months ago.

He has zero clue about the details of policymaking, the legislative process, etc. All he knows is to fight and badger people; all he understand is winning, and that if he's not putting wins on the board it's because someone else is failing him for no good reason.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
RustyNails said:
I dont understand this strategy. What GOP options are left for Repeal and Replace? Why would McConnell want to reignite the fight, especially when McCain is out for next 40 days?
Click to expand...

None. McConnell recognizes the game is up. Trump doesn't, because he doesn't understand or care about the process. Or know what's in the bills. He just wants to kill the law. Well, he missed.

Tax reform could end up being a fiasco too, given the divisions in the republican party, plus Trump being a distraction.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
None. McConnell recognizes the game is up. Trump doesn't, because he doesn't understand or care about the process. Or know what's in the bills. He just wants to kill the law. Well, he missed.

Tax reform could end up being a fiasco too, given the divisions in the republican party, plus Trump being a distraction.
Click to expand...
Skinny repeal getting shot down by McCain really set them back but unless Dems get the House and/or Senate, Republicans have the WH with a GOP Congress until at least 2020. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of another big repeal effort. Not to mention sabotage via HHS.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Diablos said:
Skinny repeal getting shot down by McCain really set them back but unless Dems get the House and/or Senate, Republicans have the WH with a GOP Congress until at least 2020. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of another big repeal effort. Not to mention sabotage via HHS.
Click to expand...

It's either sabotage or 2019 for these people. They will do this again in after the 2018 elections.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
ShadowSwordmaster said:
It's either sabotage or 2019 for these people. They will do this again in after the 2018 elections.
Click to expand...

Even if it's still RRR in 2019, they won't have the margins in the Senate to even pretend to do a repeal.

When they're looking at a 1 or 0 majority in the Senate, there's no possible way to repeal the ACA.

Their best chance to pass the ACA repeal went by awhile ago.
 
B

Blader

Member
If the GOP wins just one seat in the Senate without losing any to the Dems (and without losing the House), they will absolutely try again in 2019 and more than likely end up repealing ACA.

Of course if we can win the House or even just cut into their numbers there in a big way, that could offset Dem losses/zero gains in the Senate.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Blader said:
If the GOP wins just one seat in the Senate without losing any to the Dems, they will absolutely try again in 2019 and more than likely end up repealing ACA.
Click to expand...

Okay but that's not likely at all to be the case in 2019.

Nobody (rational at least) ever talks about the GOP gaining seats in the senate in 2019.
 
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