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[PBY]

Would you prefer large scale armed intervention?

Both seem sub-optimal?

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

https://twitter.com/adamgoldmannyt/status/889958344835960833



Huh.

What? Why?

 

[Officerrob]

It's almost as if they know he's working with Russia and they're just trying to roll with it to get their legislative goals rammed through while hoping he doesn't sabotage us too badly

If they know he's working with Russia, why pretend to care now? Didn't stop them before

 

[avaya]

So now it goes to Trump to sign or veto? This should be interesting.

Trump will sign it because if he vetoes the vote is more than 2/3rd's of each House so it would just be overridden by Congress.

 

[pigeon]

Both seem sub-optimal?

So then what do you think we should do? Nothing?

 

[nature boy]

I need my oppoium

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

What? Why?

either
A. he flipped

or

B. he handed over the documents and agreed to testify privately

 

[benicillin]

I need my oppoium

Oppo good enough to make today feel better doesn't exist.

 

[PBY]

So then what do you think we should do? Nothing?

I don't know. But everything I've read about arming the rebels in Syria indicates that it basically did nothing. And now there's a shit-ton of un-accounted for weaponry, some of which is in the hands of ISIS.

So how does that help? Sometimes doing nothing is better than shit policy alternatives.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Basically, fuck the media.

Tale as old as time..

On Sunday afternoon McCain fired up the grill again, inviting nearly 40 reporters to his spread in Page Springs, about 15 minutes outside Sedona, for an on-the-record barbecue.

...

several reporters could be seen furiously scribbling and typing notes into their BlackBerrys throughout the afternoon, at times so intensely that an observer might think McCain was divulging his deepest, darkest secrets.

But that was hardly the case—unless you count McCain's decision to disclose his recipe for the dry rub for his ribs ("One-third pepper, one-third garlic powder and one-third salt," he said proudly, shaking out a quick taste of the mixture into the palm of a reporter's hand) or where to find the best meat. (He swears by Costco.)

Reporters were given surprisingly free rein on the McCain property. As the senator grilled, and his wife Cindy and other aides talked to reporters, members of the press were allowed to roam around, availing themselves of the opportunity to take rides on the tire swing and exploring his house, which features a mat outside the door that says, "Geezer (formerly known as Stud Muffin) Lives Here."

Bonus hip vlog entry of the occasion

 

[Abinash117]

The anti-Syrian left should put this on their t-shirts.

More like many liberals or many on the left in general when it comes to anything foreign policy related.

PBY, if you and others can't support the rebels or the government than focus on the SDF/YPG. These people are closest you have to a Democratic socialist faction in Syria.

 

[Autodidact]

Tale as old as time..





Bonus hip vlog entry of the occasion

I need to see a dentist because that shit just gave me a cavity.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

More like many liberals or many on the left in general when it comes to anything foreign policy related.

PBY, if you and others can't support the rebels or the government than focus on the SDF/YPG. These people are closest you have to a Democratic socialist faction in Syria.

Kurdish minority rule of Syria + pissing off our NATO ally Turkey. Nice!

 

[pigeon]

I don't know. But everything I've read about arming the rebels in Syria indicates that it basically did nothing. And now there's a shit-ton of un-accounted for weaponry, some of which is in the hands of ISIS.

So how does that help? Sometimes doing nothing is better than shit policy alternatives.

Right. This seems to be the point that this argument always arrives at. You agree that Assad is a genocidal dictator, that genocide is bad, but that it's too hard and complicated to do anything about it.

This is, frankly, a much more pusillanimous argument than if you were just honest and said you don't actually care enough about genocide happening somewhere else to support us doing anything about it. Just admit that you don't think we should care about genocide!

 

[neurosisxeno]

I don't know. But everything I've read about arming the rebels in Syria indicates that it basically did nothing. And now there's a shit-ton of un-accounted for weaponry, some of which is in the hands of ISIS.

So how does that help? Sometimes doing nothing is better than shit policy alternatives.

It was effective until Russia showed up and started bombing rebels and Assad started using chemical weapons on them. It also helped them fight back against ISIS, which is why ISIS' presence in Syria is much smaller than it was a few years ago. This is like the third foreign policy issue I've seen you advocate doing nothing on so I'm starting to wonder if you think the Government should be doing anything for foreign policy or just hiding under a rock.

 

[Plinko]

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll413.xml

The Nays were Amash, Duncan (TN), and Massie. Rohrabacher actually voted yes.

Amash, eh? I'd like to hear his reasoning.

 

[Futurevoid]

What's the source for this?

WaPo if memory serves.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Both seem sub-optimal?

M8, it's geopolitics. Optimal outcomes don't actually exist. It's about picking the least terrible option, always.

 

[kirblar]

Right. This seems to be the point that this argument always arrives at. You agree that Assad is a genocidal dictator, that genocide is bad, but that it's too hard and complicated to do anything about it.

This is, frankly, a much more pusillanimous argument than if you were just honest and said you don't actually care enough about genocide happening somewhere else to support us doing anything about it. Just admit that you don't think we should care about genocide!

A big reason Iraq was so bad was that it wasted all of our future ability to intervene in future conflicts for generations. (Including the ones where you would actually want to!)

 

[PBY]

Right. This seems to be the point that this argument always arrives at. You agree that Assad is a genocidal dictator, that genocide is bad, but that it's too hard and complicated to do anything about it.

This is, frankly, a much more pusillanimous argument than if you were just honest and said you don't actually care enough about genocide happening somewhere else to support us doing anything about it.

False?

Arming rebels did jack shit against Assad. Doing something that doesn't fix the problem is the same thing as doing nothing. Do you not care about genocide because you support a policy that was never going to succeed from start? come the fuck on.

 

[pigeon]

It was effective until Russia showed up and started bombing rebels and Assad started using chemical weapons on them. It also helped them fight back against ISIS, which is why ISIS' presence in Syria is much smaller than it was a few years ago. This is like the third foreign policy issue I've seen you advocate doing nothing on so I'm starting to wonder if you think the Government should be doing anything for foreign policy or just hiding under a rock.

This is what I mean. There seems to be a rising current among the left of advocating silent isolationism. Trump's America.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Does the sanctions bill have to go back to the senate for any reason or through conference? I thought I heard there was some weird procedural reason it would have to.

I can't wait to see Trump squirm over it

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

either
A. he flipped

or

B. he handed over the documents and agreed to testify privately

That could be the case.

 

[Abinash117]

Kurdish minority rule of Syria + pissing off our NATO ally Turkey. Nice!

Minority rule is not even their philosophy lol. Unless you don't believe in the fact they support democratic confederalism ?

 

[PBY]

It was effective until Russia showed up and started bombing rebels and Assad started using chemical weapons on them. It also helped them fight back against ISIS, which is why ISIS' presence in Syria is much smaller than it was a few years ago. This is like the third foreign policy issue I've seen you advocate doing nothing on so I'm starting to wonder if you think the Government should be doing anything for foreign policy or just hiding under a rock.

Can I get a source for this? Because you're also ignoring negative outcomes, like ISIS getting its hands on our weapons, or shit like this: http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html

 

[pigeon]

False?

Arming rebels did jack shit against Assad. Doing something that doesn't fix the problem is the same thing as doing nothing. Do you not care about genocide because you support a policy that was never going to succeed from start? come the fuck on.

A military intervention would fix the problem and you already said you don't support that either.

 

[Kusagari]

Trump on Murkowski and Collins voting no on motion to proceed: "Very sad, I think. Very, very sad — for them."

The moderate darlings must be terrified.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Trump will sign it because if he vetoes the vote is more than 2/3rd's of each House so it would just be overridden by Congress.

I think he's just gonna sit there and glare at it until it automatically becomes law without his signature.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Right. This seems to be the point that this argument always arrives at. You agree that Assad is a genocidal dictator, that genocide is bad, but that it's too hard and complicated to do anything about it.

This is, frankly, a much more pusillanimous argument than if you were just honest and said you don't actually care enough about genocide happening somewhere else to support us doing anything about it. Just admit that you don't think we should care about genocide!

Wait, hold on, I agree with you, except substituting the word genocide for chemical warfare. The word genocide refers to deliberate eradication and murder of specific ethnicities or cultures, which the Assad side isn't really doing. I think Valhelm consumed the whole thread once over this point last week.

Minority rule is not even their philosophy lol. Unless you don't believe in the fact they support democratic confederalism ?

They're democratic, but it's not like you just give arms to the YPG, they somehow win the war, and suddenly Syria is a democracy.

 

[PBY]

A military intervention would fix the problem and you already said you don't support that either.

I'd understand that more than arming rebels, at the very least. Do you support military intervention?

Like... how do you square the above with what we did with Hussein? Serious question - was that not genocide?

 

[Futurevoid]

Kris Kobach tried to appeal the $1,000 fine he received in the ACLU case on his proof of citizenship voting law. The ACLU wanted him to hand over the document he was photographed as having in his meeting with Trump when he was interviewing for the head of DHS (it included verbiage for amending the NVRA). Kobach lied about it and said it wasn't about that. Until he was forced to hand it over and it was EXACTLY about that. The fine was given for intentionally misleading the court by the judge.

Well, the appeal didn't go well..

The federal judge basically says the sanction is both appropriate and necessary to deter Kobach from misleading the court in the future.

If you want to read about the appeal:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kris-kobach-sanctions_us_5957b65be4b05c37bb7eaa19

 

[Autodidact]

The moderate darlings must be terrified.

Switch to independent and tell him to fuck himself.

Or Murkowski can be like, "Cash me ousside, how 'bout dat?"

 

[avaya]

False?

Arming rebels did jack shit against Assad. Doing something that doesn't fix the problem is the same thing as doing nothing. Do you not care about genocide because you support a policy that was never going to succeed from start? come the fuck on.

There is one very clear solution to stop the genocide but you seem to be against that full on intervention too.

 

[pigeon]

I'd understand that more than arming rebels, at the very least. Do you support military intervention?

I think we could get the same results for less cost by arming and supporting the democratic rebels in Syria. Unfortunately we didn't commit to it effectively and screwed it up. But I'm not sure it's unsalvageable yet.

I notice you're still dancing around the question. Do you, or do you not, support military intervention to remove a genocidal dictator?

 

[JettDash]

Does the sanctions bill have to go back to the senate for any reason or through conference? I thought I heard there was some weird procedural reason it would have to.

I can't wait to see Trump squirm over it

The Senate has to vote again because it isn't the same bill they already passed.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

STOP MISUSING THE WORD GENOCIDE

IT'S GENE-O-CIDE

IT'S ABOUT GENES

 

[PBY]

I think we could get the same results for less cost by arming and supporting the democratic rebels in Syria. Unfortunately we didn't commit to it effectively and screwed it up. But I'm not sure it's unsalvageable yet.

I notice you're still dancing around the question. Do you, or do you not, support military intervention to remove a genocidal dictator?

I mean.. you've created a fictional solution that works so you don't have to answer the binary.

So I'll do the same... I support military intervention to remove a genocidal dictator if you can guarantee that we don't have another Iraq.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I mean.. you've created a fictional solution that works so you don't have to answer the binary.

So I'll do the same... I support military intervention to remove a genocidal dictator if you can guarantee that we don't have another Iraq.

Ok you've clearly checked out of having a real conversation

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

STOP MISUSING THE WORD GENOCIDE

IT'S GENE-O-CIDE

IT'S ABOUT GENES

Jean-o-side

 

[neurosisxeno]

Can I get a source for this? Because you're also ignoring negative outcomes, like ISIS getting its hands on our weapons, or shit like this: http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html

It's a war zone dude, there will always be negative outcomes. We won World War 2 after dropping 2 Atomic Bombs and losing a bit of our humanity, as an easy example. The article you linked has to do with the fact that there were multiple agencies arming rebels in Syria, and it seems the CIA was focused on keeping the region unstable where as the DoD and State were trying to back groups who wanted to topple Assad.

There's no such thing as a perfect answer, and discrediting all ideas because there is the potential for some negative outcomes is basically giving up. This is the reality of the world. Often times there is no clear right answer, and likely no good answer, but doing nothing is very rarely the best option when it comes to genocidal dictators.

 

[broz0rs]

Bernie Sanders doing work. He's starting an argument saying BCRA requires 60 votes because of the additional provisions.

https://twitter.com/rebeccashabad/status/889945158720028674

 

[Slizeezyc]

The moderate darlings must be terrified.

I see Trump is now watching The Dark Knight Rises on loop on Air Force One like he was Star Wars.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Bernie Sanders doing work. He's starting an argument saying BCRA requires 60 votes because of the additional provisions.

https://twitter.com/rebeccashabad/status/889945158720028674

I think we're at a point where BCRA isn't what we need to worry about as much as McConnell's skinny repeal.

 

[PBY]

It's a war zone dude, there will always be negative outcomes. We won World War 2 after dropping 2 Atomic Bombs and losing a bit of our humanity, as an easy example. The article you linked has to do with the fact that there were multiple agencies arming rebels in Syria, and it seems the CIA was focused on keeping the region unstable where as the DoD and State were trying to back groups who wanted to topple Assad.

There's no such thing as a perfect answer, and discrediting all ideas because there is the potential for some negative outcomes is basically giving up. This is the reality of the world. Often times there is no clear right answer, and likely no good answer, but doing nothing is very rarely the best option when it comes to genocidal dictators.

Should we also intervene in North Korea? In the Sudan or Zimbabwe?

 

[neurosisxeno]

Should we also intervene in North Korea? In the Sudan or Zimbabwe?

North Korea is more complicated than Syria, and doesn't have an insurrection for us to help out. Sudan and Zimbabwe absolutely. The amount the United States and Western world neglects African nations as a whole is embarrassing.

 

[whyamihere]

Or Murkowski can be like, "Cash me ousside, how 'bout dat?"

I think we're at a point where BCRA isn't what we need to worry about as much as McConnell's skinny repeal.

is it like a skinny marg

 

[Autodidact]

I like when we make characters out of politicians, like Murkowski the wild-eyed outdoorswoman and the Senate parliamentarian who can't be bothered because she has pilates.

Ted Cruz can be the kid who gets stuffed in lockers.

 

[PBY]

North Korea is more complicated than Syria, and doesn't have an insurrection for us to help out. Sudan and Zimbabwe absolutely. The amount the United States and Western world neglects African nations as a whole is embarrassing.

I wouldn't trust our intelligence agencies and military to get this right, but I appreciate the ideological consistency. Can't argue with this.

 

[whyamihere]

DRAG HIM JACKY

https://www.rosenfornevada.com/news...hellers-deciding-vote-is-a-slap-in-the-face-f

STATEMENT – Jacky Rosen: “Senator Heller’s Deciding Vote is a Slap in the Face for Nevada Families”

After White House meeting with President Trump, Senator Heller folded and voted for the GOP’s toxic health care repeal

Congresswoman Jacky Rosen, a former computer programmer and synagogue president, released the following statement today on Republican Senator Dean Heller’s deciding vote for the GOP’s heartless repeal of the Affordable Care Act:

“Senator Heller had a chance today to stop the GOP’s toxic health care agenda, but instead he broke his word and cast the deciding vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act with no replacement plan,” said Rosen. “After telling Nevadans he would oppose this effort to take insurance away from thousands of his constituents, Senator Heller quietly folded and caved to political pressure from President Trump and Republican leadership. Senator Heller’s deciding vote is a slap in the face for Nevada families who are terrified of having their costs spike or their coverage disappear because of this reckless repeal effort. Make no mistake: this was a heartless and immoral vote to take health care away from tens of thousands of Nevadans and millions of Americans. Nevadans are going to reject this record of extreme partisanship and broken promises by repealing and replacing Senator Heller in 2018.”

Senator Dean Heller is widely viewed as the weakest Republican Senator up for re-election in 2018, and Jacky Rosen has already been touted as a “top-tier candidate” in the race. A statewide poll released last month found Jacky leading Senator Heller in a head-to-head matchup.

Senator Heller’s voting record shows he supported Trump’s agenda 100% of the time in his first 100 days. Already this year leading up to today’s health care vote, Senator Heller has been a deciding vote to confirm Trump’s deeply unqualified Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, to allow states to defund Planned Parenthood clinics, and to let internet providers sell your data to the highest bidder without your consent.

 

[Autodidact]

She WANTS this and ain't even shame about it. Love seeing a Democratic candidate who just goes for it.