whyamihere
Banned
I mean isn't that Romneycare?
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
- Thread starter aspiegamer
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More or less, but like I said in my edit I'd add a public option to make it go down easier.
Has there been any real alternative that could supplant the mandate? Surely some think tank that's sane has offered suggestions?
I think one of the biggest issues to why healthcare is so tricky is the relationship between insurance and hospitals and how the public is kept of that loop. There's like zero transparency on price for example. I remember watching a video of some Vox guy try to find out how much his baby's delivery would cost and like he couldn't get a breakdown.
I think one of the biggest issues to why healthcare is so tricky is the relationship between insurance and hospitals and how the public is kept of that loop. There's like zero transparency on price for example. I remember watching a video of some Vox guy try to find out how much his baby's delivery would cost and like he couldn't get a breakdown.
There was a fantastic article in Time around the time the ACA was being passed about exactly the bold. I think it was Feb or March the year it passed.
You need the mandate if you want the insurance companies to survive a ban on preexisting conditions..
For the BCRA, they wanted to do a six month waiting period on people buying individual plans if they didn't have continuous coverage. The parliamentarian ruled that's in violation of the Bryd rule.
That's untenable in the real world though so it's better that it didn't pass.
That's exactly why healthcare doesn't work on "freedom" like the Republicans try and say it does. Healthcare ain't like walking into a fucking McDonald's. They don't give you prices. You don't know the quality. And you fucking need it to be done. It's not the same market as a lot of the things we purchase and can't be treated the same way.
I remember when I was young and naive trying to get a price for some dentistry work and I just couldn't.
Yeah I saw that but I don't think it can effectively replace the individual mandate. It's not punitive enough, I know if I was broke I'd just YOLO it and skip insurance entirely.
I was thinking if maybe there was a way to sneak in a VAT of sorts or maybe even based on services and limit it to the healthcare industry that could fund a pool for insurance companies to pull from in sicker markets with not enough healthy folks to offset. It's probably not something that can work, smarter people than me are have likely considered the options. I just know the individual is the main sticking point for killing the ACA. It's by far its most unpopular provision for the regular people, the wealthy take issue with the increased taxes.
JesseEwiak
Member
Probably a bad idea to argue for hours with /r/neoliberal subreddit about how people have the right to be angry, pissed, and say mean things about John McCain and that a motion to proceed vote isn't pointless.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I just went through this on dental stuff. My dentist is a great dude, but he couldn't do much. Eventually he ran the bill like I was going to get the procedure done, which was the only way to actually figure out what my insurance would pay.
not shit is the answer
aspiegamer
Member
Reading a headline that says that Republicans failed outright to repeal the thing they've said they'd repeal for 7 years 43-57 makes me feel marginally better. That is still a pretty big deal regardless. In other words, we're beyond the -absolute- worst case scenario now!
Edit: Figured I'd add related to the debt ceiling in a few months. The federal social safety net stuff is under its own trust not related to the debt, so even that can't instantly put 50 million people off their health care overnight. Medicaid is a little more complicated though. No worst case at least!
Edit: Figured I'd add related to the debt ceiling in a few months. The federal social safety net stuff is under its own trust not related to the debt, so even that can't instantly put 50 million people off their health care overnight. Medicaid is a little more complicated though. No worst case at least!
Especially when you can now just point to him voting for the actual bill lol
Worst case scenario is probably repeal only (but keep all the regulations). They are probably voting on that tommorrow. Though I don't think there is any way they pass it.
More_Badass
Member
Haven't been following this too closely because too much politics nowadays just gets depressing.
Sounds like some good news, quick summary?
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
43 votes on a bill that needed 60 (hence, no real danger of it actually passing) is quite interesting. It largely means those 6 senators don't want to be on record voting for it.
Makes me wonder what the hell turtle actually wants to get out of this.
They voted on the BCRA with the Cruz amendment. It needed 60 votes so there was no way they could get it.
They are probably going to do repeal only next, which is expected to fail. Then all kinds of random amendments.
Turtle's real plan will be the final amendment. Which appears to be skinny repeal. Meaning just repealing the individual mandate, the employer mandate, and the medical device tax in hopes that will get 50 votes. If it does, the Senate and House will try to negotiate a bill in conference, and then each chamber would vote on it.
My understanding was that taking these votes that they knew would fail was a condition for some of the republicans to vote for the MTP -- like Rand Paul would want to have a vote on straight repeal so he can use it to campaign for himself. Without these failed votes, MTP apparently would not have happened.
Aaron Strife
Banned
It was a crazy day, how about a fun story you all missed?
WaPo: Rick Perry thought he was talking to a world leader about pig manure. It was a prank call.
WaPo: Rick Perry thought he was talking to a world leader about pig manure. It was a prank call.
VendettaRed07
Member
interesting that Marco Rubio has seemingly avoided being discussed throughout all of this. Haven't even heard his name in months.
Autodidact
Banned
I stopped giving a shit after Christie ethered him from existence.
Though I halfway expected him to pop off at the mouth during The Beaching (perhaps my favorite ever name for a scandal).
I would almost like Christie for that if he didn't decide to be Trump's manservant right after.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
If there is one thing that follows him around it's he is lazy as fuck. He wanted to seem like the big dude in the confirmation hearings but it's too much work to actually follow up and continue.
aspiegamer
Member
Pence added a +1 to get to 51-50 on the motion to proceed. This is bad, of course. The two expecteds went nay, but Rand Paul and Heller went for, after getting baited and being bought off by casino moguls, respectively.
An outright repeal with nothing else going on would have been a trainwreck! That's the 30M+ losing coverage thing, and everything going back to the way it used to be. The vote to do that failed outright, so in a sense the GOP has completely broken its multi-year running promise. It's technically true that an outright repeal of the health coverage but keeping the regulations would be a bigger trainwreck, in that it would screw with premiums in extremely unpredictable ways for most everyone with employer-based health care. There's been some evidence presented that 60 votes would be needed for a lot of this stuff, too, which is super-mega-never happening.
However! Now we're into amendment land where no one is sure if there's a plan; The closest thing to one is throw up a few easy regulations to repeal (aka, the "skinny repeal" option) and then McConnell would sent it back over to the House and pray they voted on something and then take everyone for suckers at conference committee. Problems: Some stuff would need 60 votes, and the House is unlikely to support anything that still have abortion funding in it.
It's still possible something can get passed and they might set the bar soooooooooo so low to try to claim any kind of victory that no one knows what'll come out, but with 3 strong Nays before any debate (for different reasons) no one knows if it's time spent productively or not. It's also possible that McConnell could "go nuclear" and kill the filibuster, but that's not a thing anyone wants to talk about. Plus, it's unlikely.
Oh, and John McCain's dying body was rushed to Washington against doctor's orders so he could be the decisive vote that assured the biggest partisan showdown in years. He then went on to give a "both sides" and "let's worth together" call for bipartisan cooperation speech-- without irony-- cementing himself as the signature bastard of the Senate who chose to risk death traveling just to make sure he could take health care away from The Poors.
TLDR;
1) There'll be debate now, and more votes
2) "Clean repeal" is off the table
3) No one knows how the GOP gets 50 votes on anything whatsoever
4) Some stuff needs 60 votes, killing it instantly
5) John McCain is a bastard of the highest order and I've never rooted against a guy with likely terminal brain cancer before yesterday
Widdle Puppy
Banned
His career has plateaued. It's even uncertain if he will be a career senator at this point.
VendettaRed07
Member
That was a classic.
Yeah, I was somewhat impressed with his line of questioning.. especially on Tillerson. He still voted for him so whatever. But still. I'm impressed he isn't even so much as doing the "I'm going to denounce something before voting for it", shtick. He might as well be in the bushes with Spicey he's avoiding the spotlight so much
Aaron Strife
Banned
McConnell going nuclear over this would be dumb because it changes literally nothing for this bill. Why would they spend so much time going through reconciliation if they could have just gotten that done in the first place?
Doing it via reconciliation they need 50 votes. Doing it in a filibuster-less Senate, they still need 50 votes. I think that's the one line McConnell won't cross either, Republicans benefit far more from the filibuster than Democrats do.
Doing it via reconciliation they need 50 votes. Doing it in a filibuster-less Senate, they still need 50 votes. I think that's the one line McConnell won't cross either, Republicans benefit far more from the filibuster than Democrats do.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Giving that speech, then voting FOR that bill, is just astounding.
Any remaining shred of dignity he had is gone in the eyes of anyone humane.
He will die, and be remembered for his fake military persona, and as a person who voted to kill thousands by those who don't fall for the facade.
timetokill
Banned
McCain is the inverse hero
He lived so that we may die
He lived so that we may die
broz0rs
Member
GQ had a nice takedown of McCain shortly after his votes tonight.
John McCain Is the Perfect American Lie
John McCain Is the Perfect American Lie
Autodidact
Banned
Lifelong* Republican Ann Kirkpatrick would never vote to repeal the ACA.
*In her heart. She had to be lowkey until her grandmama passed.
sir_kevith
Member
A mag as mainstream as GQ calling a dying McCain a fucking disgrace as a conclusion. Goddamn...
This year has been nuts.
He also voted for the BCRA which would absolutely fuck Arizona.
I guess he can redeem himself if he votes against the final bill the Turtle comes up with. I wouldn't count on it though.
Officerrob
Banned
After his little speech in which he said he would not vote for the current bill, he did that exact thing a few hours later
McCain is a fucking disgrace. He will be "concerned" as millions of people are stripped of their insurance and thousands die due to the Republicans ignoring every convention he claims to hold so dear, and then when the Democrats try and fix it in a bipartisan and open way he will claim they are destroying government. Pathetic, self-aggrandising, and disgraceful.
Because he lied. It would have been a fine speech had he not done the exact thing he said he wouldn't do a mere couple hours later. He didn't debate anything, he just voted.
(He might be dead by 2018 -- if the Dems even get Congress back then)
Carpe Carnim
Member
Do you have a single clue what 'Normal Order' is, or why going along with this MTP is the opposite of it? Or, did you hear the term and you're just parroting it for the moment?
Get a grip dude.
Why did he vote "yes" on the bill just a few hours later?
If he voted yes for debate, and there was no debate but a direct vote for the bill, and he voted yes, how is he not a hypocritical motherfucker?
Must we bring up his record and see how frequently he's voted against the ACA? Cancer may be killing him, but it's not killing his slimy public rhetoric and consistent voting habit.
Maybe McCain getting cancer might be the actual disease that exposed this "maverick" for the fuckin' fraud he is because the spotlight is on him now. A guy who votes 9/10 times with Trump is the man of opposition?
If he's like any maverick, as this is GAF, he's Sigma: he's a virus. A phony. A shell.
Poodlestrike
Banned
John McCain is... I don't even have the words, honestly.
My dad (terrible person, occasionally has some good ideas) always says "you are who you are in the dark." John McCain, when under a camera, plays the part of a Real American Hero. A man of conscience and wisdom. The second those cameras falter off him, even for a moment, he does whatever the fuck the Republican Party tells him to. Which is crazy, because he's still a Senator. It's not like his actions are unscrutinized. He just seems to have no mental link between his rhetoric and his voting patterns. It's bizarre. And it's predictable. You can't take somebody at their word, just their actions, and McCain's actions present a clear and deeply obvious pattern.
I don't know who the fuck walked back into the jungle, but it's not that human shitstain giving speeches on the Senate floor. That man has no honor, no spine, and no decency.
My dad (terrible person, occasionally has some good ideas) always says "you are who you are in the dark." John McCain, when under a camera, plays the part of a Real American Hero. A man of conscience and wisdom. The second those cameras falter off him, even for a moment, he does whatever the fuck the Republican Party tells him to. Which is crazy, because he's still a Senator. It's not like his actions are unscrutinized. He just seems to have no mental link between his rhetoric and his voting patterns. It's bizarre. And it's predictable. You can't take somebody at their word, just their actions, and McCain's actions present a clear and deeply obvious pattern.
I don't know who the fuck walked back into the jungle, but it's not that human shitstain giving speeches on the Senate floor. That man has no honor, no spine, and no decency.
balladofwindfishes
Member
McCain specifically said "I will not vote for that bill" in his big speech
Two hours later he was a yes on adding that bill into the final bill
No. They voted on a Motion To Proceed (MTP), which means they've proceeded to vote on stuff related to healthcare. But so far we've only seen votes on things that were never intended to pass.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
John McCain is a pathetic excuse of a human being for what he did yesterday.
nature boy
Member
Piece of shit is still piece of shit
metalslimer
Member
Man I'm just glad people finally woke up to the slimeball McCain actually is.
People seem to have already forgotten McCain throwing a hissy fit over don't ask don't tell being repealed. If this "hero" had his way lives would still be being destroyed most likely to this day. Don't even get me started on his fake ass daughter. I know you have to try and publicly root for a guy who will 99.9% die of cancer but fuck him
People seem to have already forgotten McCain throwing a hissy fit over don't ask don't tell being repealed. If this "hero" had his way lives would still be being destroyed most likely to this day. Don't even get me started on his fake ass daughter. I know you have to try and publicly root for a guy who will 99.9% die of cancer but fuck him
balladofwindfishes
Member
Attacking someone whose vote you need is really stupid
How do you intimidate someone who won a write in election...
How do you intimidate someone who won a write in election...
metalslimer
Member
It's shocking he hasn't blown up over the Collins hot mic
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