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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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P

Poodlestrike

Banned
PBY said:
Okay - and this is clearly her not taking responsibility.
Click to expand...

Casting Russia and Comey as the primary reasons for the loss is not the same as saying that she didn't fuck anything up, and I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the story that says that she's utterly abrogating responsibility for the things she did wrong.

And again, who gives a fuck.
 
B

Blader

Member
I don't think the argument for a Hillary tell-all book should be "she's probably bored and wants to make some money, and maybe she'll just donate it to charity anyway."

If there's something new to say about Comey or Russian involvement in the election, then I'm interested. If this is airing the same grievances for the nth time, then it's egotistical and otherwise pointless. I don't think it'll have same kind of lasting effect on anyone outside the Fox News bubble, but if there's nothing new to reveal outside of Comey violating the Hatch Act or Russian hackers leaking DNC and Clinton campaign emails to influence the election, then what's the point? The people who acknowledge Comey and Putin's impact on Hillary's loss already acknowledge it; the people who don't never will. I want to believe there'll be something new to chew on in this ("the whole story", "surprised by how much she reveals", "bombshell") but I'm pretty skeptical.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Casting Russia and Comey as the primary reasons for the loss is not the same as saying that she didn't fuck anything up, and I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the story that says that she's utterly abrogating responsibility for the things she did wrong.

And again, who gives a fuck.
Click to expand...
THEY WERENT THE PRIMARY REASONS.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
How dare Hillary Clinton former First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State, first woman nominated for President by a major party, received the most votes of any woman candidate in US history, have the audacity to write a book. The absolute nerve.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
PBY said:
THEY WERENT THE PRIMARY REASONS.
Click to expand...

60k votes between a few stares. Almost anything could have tipped the election one way or the other. Get over it, those things most likely cost her the election even if there were a lot of other fixable factors that the dems are trying to do with their new strategy
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
PBY said:
THEY WERENT THE PRIMARY REASONS.
Click to expand...

Dude, she won the popular by 3 million votes. The loss was carried by less than 100k people across 3 states. I don't think you can reasonably say that the FBI and the FSB putting their foot on the scale wasn't the tipping point here.

If she'd "supremely fucked up" like everyone claims she probably wouldn't have had the popular vote lead she did. Clearly a lot of people DID like her message, liked her campaign, etc.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Dude, she won the popular by 3 million votes. The loss was carried by less than 100k people across 3 states. I don't think you can reasonably say that the FBI and the FSB putting their foot on the scale wasn't the tipping point here.
Click to expand...
The tipping point perhaps. But the straw that broke the camels back == primary reason.

The fact it was even that close agains the most unpopular candidate in history is a clear indictment.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
PBY said:
The tipping point perhaps. But the straw that broke the camels back == primary reason.

The fact it was even that close agains the most unpopular candidate in history is a clear indictment.
Click to expand...

== means "is".

It also "is" the primary reason. The thing that makes the difference is the primary reason.

The closeness has more to do with the Republican Base than it does her candidacy.

WHY ARE WE RE-LITIGATING THIS SHIT

SHE LIVES IN THE WOODS NOW

LET GO OF YOUR ANGER, PBY
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
== means "is".

It also "is" the primary reason. The thing that makes the difference is the primary reason.

The closeness has more to do with the Republican Base than it does her candidacy.

WHY ARE WE RE-LITIGATING THIS SHIT

SHE LIVES IN THE WOODS NOW

LET GO OF YOUR ANGER, PBY
Click to expand...
WHY CANT YOU LET GO OF YOUR QUEEN AND ADMIT SHE FUCKED UP?

She's in the woods, but we're talking about her bc she chose to put this book out. This is what happens when you write a book like this. No one forced her to do this.
 
D

dramatis

Member
watershed said:
Well this will probably dominate all of September. Curious to see what she has to say. I think Hillary Clinton would have been a good president and she was clearly the far better choice over Trump. But her personal hubris is notorious. I'm interested to see how she sees the election.
Click to expand...
September is when we do the debt ceiling. Which means we blow horns about impending government shutdown and people learn about the word 'furlough' again.

Her book will be news for like a week at longest. Unless Trump does something stupid in the middle of it.

PBY said:
WHY CANT YOU LET GO OF YOUR QUEEN AND ADMIT SHE FUCKED UP?

She's in the woods, but we're talking about her bc she chose to put this book out. This is what happens when you write a book like this. No one forced her to do this.
Click to expand...
People have acknowledged that a myriad of factors could explain the loss. You're the one who insists on heaping the blame only on Hillary Clinton herself.

I don't see this sort of caps lock reaction from you blaming anybody else when they fuck up.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
PBY said:
WHY CANT YOU LET GO OF YOUR QUEEN AND ADMIT SHE FUCKED UP?

She's in the woods, but we're talking about her bc she chose to put this book out. This is what happens when you write a book like this.
Click to expand...

Because, fundamentally, when you say "admit she fucked up," you're not actually looking for... well, that.

Everyone here has said, on numerous occasions, that Hillary did stuff wrong. She didn't spend enough time in Wisconsin, she didn't tailor her message well to reach working class voters, she etc etc etc.

But you know what? She spent AGES in Pennsylvania. And she lost there. And she had tons of speeches about the economy. But they covered Trump's empty podium instead. And and and and and and.

What you're looking for isn't an "admission that she fucked up," or an accurate recounting of events. What you want is the catharsis from self-flagellation, though you might deny it. You want a reassurance that as long as the next Dem candidate doesn't "fuck up," then we'e assured victory, because FBI investigations and FSB propaganda campaigns don't really matter and our success is entirely in our own hands. But it's not. So we can't give that to you. So we go 'round and 'round because what you're asking for isn't what you want and what you want you can't have.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Because, fundamentally, when you say "admit she fucked up," you're not actually looking for... well, that.

Everyone here has said, on numerous occasions, that Hillary did stuff wrong. She didn't spend enough time in Wisconsin, she didn't tailor her message well to reach working class voters, she etc etc etc.

But you know what? She spent AGES in Pennsylvania. And she lost there. And she had tons of speeches about the economy. But they covered Trump's empty podium instead. And and and and and and.

What you're looking for isn't an "admission that she fucked up," or an accurate recounting of events. What you want is the catharsis from self-flagellation, though you might deny it. You want a reassurance that as long as the next Dem candidate doesn't "fuck up," then we'e assured victory, because FBI investigations and FSB propaganda campaigns don't really matter and our success is entirely in our own hands. But it's not. And we can't give that to you.
Click to expand...
Lol no. I want the Dems to understand why their message was doomed from the jump.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow......
8:55 AM · Jul 26, 2017

Oh fuck.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow......
8:55 AM · Jul 26, 2017

Oh fuck.
Click to expand...

This is probably more important than Hillary's Words from the Woods, you guys.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Poodlestrike said:
What you're looking for isn't an "admission that she fucked up," or an accurate recounting of events. What you want is the catharsis from self-flagellation, though you might deny it. You want a reassurance that as long as the next Dem candidate doesn't "fuck up," then we'e assured victory, because FBI investigations and FSB propaganda campaigns don't really matter and our success is entirely in our own hands. But it's not. So we can't give that to you. So we go 'round and 'round because what you're asking for isn't what you want and what you want you can't have.
Click to expand...

Success isn't entirely in our hands. But it isn't entirely out of it, either. A sufficiently good candidate would have been in a position where Comey's intervention was not decisive. A sufficiently good candidate wouldn't have been in the position where it took only a 1.7% fall to lose to Trump.
 
D

dramatis

Member
I wonder sometimes if Spicer was keeping the worst of it behind a Spicer Wall. Scaramucci seems content to let Trump instigate a war by accident via tweets.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Member
Oh he's just being a bigot. How much you wanna bet that long wait between tweets was Mooch trolling us to get a reaction so he can point out how Chicken Little we are
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Crab said:
Success isn't entirely in our hands. But it isn't entirely out of it, either. A sufficiently good candidate would have been in a position where Comey's intervention was not decisive. A sufficiently good candidate wouldn't have been in the position where it took only a 1.7% fall to lose to Trump.
Click to expand...

Literally any other candidate would have won even if they ran the exact same campaign. A big lesson is never putting up someone with that much history to target.

That being said yes there was a big problem in the downticket messaging
 
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