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[CharlieDigital]

Public financing stuff used to piss me off a whole lot until I understood where the money came from.

As is, I wonder: a) Who the fuck are these fucktards that check the box?

& b) Why can't more things have little boxes next to them? "Would you like to donate $0.50 to the Federal Endowment for the Arts?" Fuck no!

You would like Mark Rosenfelder's article here: http://www.zompist.com/restructure.html

A good place to start would be direct voting on the federal budget. With their tax return, each citizen would indicate what percentage should be allocated for each category of spending-- down to the level of the categories in the almanac, at least.

This idea depends on the fact that large numbers of people judge better than individuals. (Have a hundred people guess a man's height, and the average guess will be remarkably accurate.) The people as a whole would be good judges of how much to spend on the military, or foreign aid, or farm supports.

Could citizens or groups play games with this? Of course; that's much of the appeal. Vote for 100% of the budget to go to public radio, if you like; or 50% to the space program and 50% to Medicare. On the whole, eccentric votes will even out-- but an organized minority could always have a real influence on policy. (If just 1% of the voters cast their whole vote for a program, they'd control the allocation of 18 billion dollars. That's bigger than the space program, and bigger than foreign military and development aid combined.)

The obvious objection is that the citizenry is a bunch of idiots who'd blow the budget on tomfooleries. This is basically the same objection once raised to democracy itself, and gets the same answer.

To minimize disruptions during the learning phase, the system could be phased in gradually: e.g. 10% of the budget is adjusted the first year, 20% the next, and so on. That should lessen the probability that (say) education gets a 50% increase or decrease in any one year. In the first years it can't be done, and in later years people already have a history of working with these new levers and are less likely to lurch in a new direction.

The average voter, like the current average president, seems unable to think responsibly about government. He likes government services, and the more the better; but he doesn't like paying for them.

One component of this is surely the fact that taxes come in just two bins, Social Security and Everything Else. As we learn from user interface design, feedback is key. The taxpayer doesn't know where his money is going, and thus listens to demagogues who insist that it's all going to welfare mothers.

At the very least, we could have a dozen taxes instead of one: a Defense Tax, an Interest Tax, a Courts Tax, a Spread the Wealth Tax, a Business and Farm Helps Tax, and so on. Perhaps you should have to write a separate check for each category, so attention is focussed on each figure.

Unlike the first proposal, this wouldn't help build consensus on how much the figures should be; but they'd be out in the open, and that's the first step in responsible voting. It's easy to get upset at 30% of your paycheck going to "Fed. Withh." If you saw a 5.2% Defense Tax and a 0.3% Space Tax, you might still be upset, but you'd also be informed. (To clarify: these are expressed as percentages of a typical paycheck, not as percentages of the budget.)

Could talk radio hosts get people quite so upset over the 0.4% Welfare Tax? Would people wonder why there's a 0.2% Farm Tax? Would the deficit seem so unimportant if people saw a 2.3%-and-rising Interest Tax?

For all this to be meaningful, the funds would have to be kept separate-- that is, the separate taxes don't go into a single general fund; the defense tax can only be used for national defense.

etc.

The best part of his plan for restructuring America is "Lose the South" :lol

 

[Hitokage]

[...]
* She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.
[...]
* Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

:rolleyes

Completely glosses over the details in the first entry, like, you know, firing the librarian for not being cooperative with this so-called "what if", before having to reinstate her from the backlash. The second entry is just naively ignoring foot-in-door tactics.

 

[Price Dalton]

I don't know how you people survive though, because seeing these youtube clips and ads from the McCain camp and the lies which are flying around like nuts...its literally making my stomach turn. Tips?

Should I start drinking?

Do you have any sedatives or opiates?

 

[ezekial45]

Can we get a screen grab of Mathews throwing out the book "Lipstick on a Pig" out there? It's so awesome.gif

Is there a video of this?

 

[GhaleonEB]

As if his constant appearances on FOX News weren't enough of a clue...

Or the Dick Morris columns that run side by side with the polls on his site.

Still a poll is just a poll. To be taken for what they are worth. (FWIW, Rasmussen also has McCain opening up double-digit leads in Montana and North Dakota, both previously close states wehre Obama has been playing heavily.)

 

[Tamanon]

factcheck.org on sarah palin..

link

* Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.

* She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.

* She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.

* Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.

* Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

Earlier this year, she told the Anchorage Daily News that schools should not fear teaching creationism alongside evolution. "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information.... Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as a daughter of a science teacher."

The rest really isn't being discussed.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Matthews is doing a good job calling them out, but at the same time he's saying how "trivial" the pig thing is he's still devoting the entire hour to it.

If there's anything Kerry's campaign proved, it's that you can't ignore lies and hope they go away. Devoting time to talk about how stupid or wrong something is is perfectly ok in my book.

 

[Goreomedy]

Is there a video of this?

Not yet. But Hardball repeats at 7:00pm Eastern.

 

[TDG]

Obama/Biden '08 rally/yard signs are now avalible online, btw.

 

[Hsieh]

Here's the video clip on YouTube of McCain referring to Hillary's healthcare plan as "lipstick on a pig":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPYkNQlJMM

Here's another clip of a different occasion, but still referring to Hillary's plan with the same phrase:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHlIfOTS1c&feature=iv

 

[CharlieDigital]

Obama/Biden '08 rally/yard signs are now avalible online, btw.

Dude, I still haven't gotten my Obama yard signs from like, 10 days ago now...

 

[ZealousD]

This is even better:



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/09/palin_camp_takes_umbrage_at_li.html

Check the top video on MSNBC's website

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

Pfotenhauer is essentially saying that this stituation is different because "clearly" Obama was referring to the pitbull/lipstick line in her speech.

 

[The Lamonster]

If there's anything Kerry's campaign proved, it's that you can't ignore lies and hope they go away. Devoting time to talk about how stupid or wrong something is is perfectly ok in my book.

good point, sir

 

[Tamanon]

Responding to a question at a town hall-style meeting at Nashua Community College, Mr. Biden said, “Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me.”

He added, “She’s qualified to be president. I mean that sincerely, she’s first rate.”

OH NOES! PUMA FORCE ACTIVATE!

 

[GhaleonEB]

Dude, I still haven't gotten my Obama yard signs from like, 10 days ago now...

Just went to the Obama store to check stuff out. At the top of that page:

Delivery time for most products is approximately 1-2 weeks.

 

[TDG]

Dude, I still haven't gotten my Obama yard signs from like, 10 days ago now...

Yeah, I did that thingy over a week ago where you donate >$15 dollars, and you get a first edition Obama/Biden '08 car magnet, and I still haven't gotten it. WTF Obama, if you can't get yard signs in the mail quickly, how can you be expected to be the leader of the free world?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

If there's anything Kerry's campaign proved, it's that you can't ignore lies and hope they go away. Devoting time to talk about how stupid or wrong something is is perfectly ok in my book.

I think it also points out just how beholden the news networks are to talking about scandals rather than issues for ratings.

In all honesty, what makes for a more entertaining hour of discussion: dry issues, or panels arguing about the latest drama. Not everyone is like us, and is going to spend our free time watching any and all political news. There may be some people out there who only watch Hardball, and even though it doesn't merit discussion, they've heard about this "pig comment," and probably expect to see meaningless commentary concerning it.

So, yes, Matthews might hypocritically decry the story as not news, and then proceed to cover it. But I would fault this as being an unfortunate side-effect of the 24 hour news cycles that need people to tune in, despite there not really being 24 hours worth of news to cover.

 

[bafflewaffle]

If there's anything Kerry's campaign proved, it's that you can't ignore lies and hope they go away. Devoting time to talk about how stupid or wrong something is is perfectly ok in my book.

I get that, but Matthews is presenting it as if talking about it is above him, when clearly it isnt.

 

[Gruco]

Public financing stuff used to piss me off a whole lot until I understood where the money came from.

As is, I wonder: a) Who the fuck are these fucktards that check the box?

& b) Why can't more things have little boxes next to them? "Would you like to donate $0.50 to the Federal Endowment for the Arts?" Fuck no!

Actually, many states do have options like the b) you're describing.

I check the the box every year. It doesn't increase your cost to file anyway, so by not checking it you're just redirecting from something you have significant philosophical objections to something else which you have significant philosophical objections to, only the latter probably just got put in place to begin with because you never checked the box.

 

[Hitokage]

I check the public financing box.

 

[Tamanon]

I check the public financing box.

Congrats! You support pedophiles now!

 

[Hitokage]

Congrats! You support pedophiles now!

OH NOEZ!

 

[reilo]

I check the public financing box.

HEATHEN SOCIALIST PIG FASCIST

Did I cover it all?

 

[xs_mini_neo]

DRILL ALASKA UP THE ASS!

Fixed for the movie, Alaska.

"Alaska and his two slutsons, Sean and Jessie, have moved to the state of Alaska after his career died. He is a former airline pornstar now delivering toilet paper across the mountains. During an emergency semen delivery in a storm his plane goes down on him somewhere in the mountains. Annoyed that the authorities aren't doing him enough, Jessie and Sean set out on an adventure to fuck their father with the help of a polar bear which they have saved from a ferocious and horny ex-pornstar (Charlton Heston). Hilarity ensues."

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Right on ****ing Matt Damon.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5771162

Matt Damon +1

 

[Wray]

 

[MaizeRage25]

I'm also still waiting on my car magnet. Let's get going guys, not that much time left.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

OH NOES! PUMA FORCE ACTIVATE!

Soon to be an attack ad!

 

[JayDubya]

I check the public financing box.

I had no suspicions whatsoever that any moderators or my fellow GAF members were of the political persuasion to believe that public financing of elections with tax money was a good thing and as such I certainly had no intention of calling any of you a fucktard in an underhanded manner. No, no sir, that would be wrong.

>_>


<_<


^_^


Edit: Seriously though, why?

 

[Gruco]

You would like Mark Rosenfelder's article here: http://www.zompist.com/restructure.html

This would actually be a remarkable idea for government transparency. I don't think they need to have separate "taxes" for each one, but maybe just an XYZ% of budget list, and or an automatic calculation for people filing electronically.

It's more transparent, unobtrusive, could potentially have amazing results, and would cost next to nothing. What's not to like?

 

[Deleted member 20415]

You guys do realize that the people that check the boxes (ME!) make funding possible for candidates outside the Democrat and Republican system. It democratizes the race and gives people that otherwise couldn't raise the money or compete a shot at the very least.

 

[JayDubya]

^

I guess I'd vote 100% interest / debt, every time.

 

[Gruco]

Edit: Seriously though, why?

I'm more interested in lowering subsidies for stupid ideas for rent seekers than I am in ideological purity.

 

[Tamanon]

You guys do realize that the people that check the boxes (ME!) make funding possible for candidates outside the Democrat and Republican system. It democratizes the race and gives people that otherwise couldn't raise the money or compete a shot at the very least.

No it doesn't. They have to reach a certain threshold to get that funding. Nobody ever does.

 

[ronito]

You guys do realize that the people that check the boxes (ME!) make funding possible for candidates outside the Democrat and Republican system. It democratizes the race and gives people that otherwise couldn't raise the money or compete a shot at the very least.

I also check the box. $3 a year is a small price for the possibility of a viable third party some day. That and I've been a vocal opponent of completely publicly funded campaigns to cut out the lobbyists. I'd be intellectually dishonest if I didn't put my money where my mouth is and last I checked my voter registration didn't say republican so.....

 

[Pakkidis]

I was just as confused as to why people who vote for McCain/Palin but after watching videos of reporters talking to people who go to their rallies it becomes painfully obvious these people do not watch the news or bother reading the newspaper let alone checking out the internet.

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

MSM do not call out bullshit because they are afraid of being labeled as biased and are afraid to loose viewers.


I am astounded by the level of stupidity in this world but accepting it is the only thing that is keeping my brain from exploding.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

No it doesn't. They have to reach a certain threshold to get that funding. Nobody ever does.

But it still makes it possible. It's still there in case they do. Is it any less necessary if people can't take advantage of it because they are of an unpopular opinion or party? It should drive them to get to that level so they CAN take advantage of it.

 

[Frank the Great]

Obama has made a deal with Bill Clinton, he will now campaign on behalf of Obama in florida


http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/10/42-sunshine/

Great news. It seems the Obama campaign is taking Nate's advice yet again and is really going after Florida.

 

[Cooter]

I give Obama a 75% chance to win despite everything going on now. The environment for a republican is just too difficult presently. Don't freak out guys.

 

[CharlieDigital]

This would actually be a remarkable idea for government transparency. I don't think they need to have separate "taxes" for each one, but maybe just an XYZ% of budget list, and or an automatic calculation for people filing electronically.

It's more transparent, unobtrusive, could potentially have amazing results, and would cost next to nothing. What's not to like?

The current .gov is too unimaginative? Maybe they think that the public is too stupid to be given this type of responsibility (I like Rosenfelder's solution to gradually increase the amount that is actually directly voted on by citizens over time)? Who knows.

 

[Gruco]

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

Okay, who's taking this one?

 

[reilo]

I was just as confused as to why people who vote for McCain/Palin but after watching videos of reporters talking to people who go to their rallies it becomes painfully obvious these people do not watch the news or bother reading the newspaper let alone checking out the internet.

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

MSM do not call out bullshit because they are afraid of being labeled as biased and are afraid to loose viewers.


I am astounded by the level of stupidity in this world but accepting it is the only thing that is keeping my brain from exploding.

Obama doesn't need Ohio or Missouri.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Okay, who's taking this one?

No one should take that one.

 

[Hitokage]

I also check the box. $3 a year is a small price for the possibility of a viable third party some day. That and I've been a vocal opponent of completely publicly funded campaigns to cut out the lobbyists. I'd be intellectually dishonest if I didn't put my money where my mouth is and last I checked my voter registration didn't say republican so.....

...proponent?

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

Uh... not really.

 

[Frank the Great]

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

First of all, Missouri is a red state and would only be icing on the cake of a massive Obama victory if he wins it.

Secondly, while Ohio is a lot closer than Missouri, he hardly needs it to win the election.

 

[Gruco]

Maybe they think that the public is too stupid to be given this type of responsibility

Well, at the very least they can start with a thorough disclosure; no responsibility there at all. I'm going to go with the unimaginative angle.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I give Obama a 75% chance to win despite everything going on now. The environment for a republican is just too difficult presently. Don't freak out guys.

I don't know if I would be that generous. The only thing to really walk away with now is that, right now, this is a very close race. I think many are just extremely disappointed because of an optimism that this was going to be a cakewalk after 8 years of Bush, which is kind of naive.

 

[reilo]

I don't know if I would be that generous. The only thing to really walk away with now is that, right now, this is a very close race. I think many are just extremely disappointed because of an optimism that this was going to be a cakewalk after 8 years of Bush, which is kind of naive.

The GOP ALWAYS receives a bounce after their convention. ALWAYS. Calm the hell down.

 

[Justin Bailey]

The sad reality is Obama is not looking good right now, not because of all the cheap smears against him but because the states he needs to win specifically Missouri/Ohio he is about 5 points behind McCain.

Say it with me now: NM, CO, and IA + Kerry states = President Obama

 

[Cooter]

I don't know if I would be that generous. The only thing to really walk away with now is that, right now, this is a very close race. I think many are just extremely disappointed because of an optimism that this was going to be a cakewalk after 8 years of Bush, which is kind of naive.

I think he should win about 330 to 350 EV's when it's all said and done. Like I've said before the only thing I see really giving McCain a chance is if Palin beats Biden at the debate and McCain ties or wins 2 out of 3.