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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Byakuya769 said:
.. and we get no discussion of the GOPs inactivity on Nuclear energy over the last 8 years, despite talking about it often...
Click to expand...


quoting so that Huzah or Gaborn can respond to this post.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Huzah said:
Yes because oil going from 70 dollars to 140 dollars in less than a year and the recent breakthroughs in energy technology HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT correct?
Click to expand...


a) What are these amazing energy breakthroughs?
b) Ghaleon is suggesting he's only supporting it because it's politically expedient, which you're simply defining. It has always been the right thing to do.
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
Byakuya769 said:
Were you saying the same thing when Bush/Cheney were bigging up the nuclear option constantly in the 2000/2004 debates? Yet we haven't seen a single step in that direction, and the GOP were only ousted two years ago.. so what were their roadblocks?
Click to expand...


This!

Seriously all it is is political pandering of a populist position that may give McCain a few votes from numbskulls that are blinded by the new paint on the straight talk express. Numbskulls not smart enough to understand that new paint was bought and paid for by oil money.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
OuterWorldVoice said:
a) What are these amazing energy breakthroughs?
b) Ghaleon is suggesting he's only supporting it because it's politically expedient, which you're simply defining. It has always been the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Hitokage said:
Yeah, I've heard similar things. I just want to know what's we're actually looking at with nuclear before throwing in other considerations like carbon emissions.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if my post made it clear or not, but my understanding is that nuclear plants are more profitable/economic than coal (which is the only real consideration here... natural gas fired plants is a waste of gas) ... However, it's a high risk/high reward proposition from a business perspective, and that risk is more than sane companies are willing to take.

The public opinion of nuclear power doesn't help, either.
 
H

Huzah

Member
Byakuya769 said:
.. and we get no discussion of the GOPs inactivity on Nuclear energy over the last 8 years, despite talking about it often...
Click to expand...

Both sides were lame on nuclear energy, and pigged out on low energy prices for far to long and that's why we are at the energy position we are at. You have to start somewhere and the DEMs are sure not taking the reigns.
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
I'm on page 85 here.

Yeah, I was talking with a Cuban professor down here in South Florida, and I listened to him. Being a professor, he's more predisposed to listen, but I had him state his reasons, in why he was supporting McCain.

The reasons are emotionally powerful. As a youth of 20 years old, he was imprisoned in Cuba for his political ideas. Afterwards, he dedicated his life to fighting the regime/escaping from Cuba. He's been here a total of 15 years.

He's against liberals/socialism because he's seen what the extreme versions do to the country, and since he spent his life, and sacrificed quite a bit, fighting for conservative ideals, it's hard for him to come around and vote Obama.

He's bought into the Republican line, hook and sinker. He's a good guy overall, and readily listened when I corrected him on some things (Obama has 800+ pieces of legislation to his name from the Illinois Senate alone).

He was much more open to me when I revealed that I was initially for McCain in the primaries (true), but I didn't reveal my current stance.

Trying to dissuade him from going McCain. I'll probably see him tomorrow.

Point is, don't think that whoever is voting McCain is stupid, or evil. Some of them have powerfully emotional reasons. Informing them of the facts, though, might help sway some, or at least ease tensions. So please, don't claim that all old Cubans are something or other so dismissively. They have legitimately powerful reasons and stories that I can't blame them for, and neither should you.

P.S. Not a Cuban. <3
 
G

Guts Of Thor

Thorax of Odin
sp0rsk said:
Am I the only one that doesn't want these 527s involved?
Click to expand...

I can see the reasoning why people wouldn't want them involved.

I however want every last one of them cranking out negative ad after negative ad after negative ad. If Obama is not willing to fight dirty then someone has to do it for him.
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Shirokun said:
Don't be so sure. I'm pretty sure the softball Palin interview is on tomorrow night. Watch her not mention a thing about her political views, while blabbering about "hockey mom" this and that. We might not see any bounce back until the debates, and that's assuming the media doesn't spin everything out of wack like they've been known for.
Click to expand...

My Canadian friend sent me a scan of his local newspaper today, where they had an article by Hockey moms being insulted that Palin is calling herself that, and how they say its pretty much not possible for her to be a 'hockey mom', as its actually something that takes significant time and energy.
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
sp0rsk said:
Am I the only one that doesn't want these 527s involved?
Click to expand...
I agree. The fact that its been well reported that Obama has given the green light will be used for sure and honestly I think this election has been pretty light on the 527 front. This will start the 527 war fully.

We had that really bad terrorist link ad but thats really the only main one. Obama's camp getting 527's going is gonna get the Republican 527s unleashed and they will go full out and the level of sleaze in this election will go to areas unseen before
 
T

Trurl

Banned
sp0rsk said:
Am I the only one that doesn't want these 527s involved?
Click to expand...
No. There's also McCain, lolz.

Seriously, though, if Obama is only able to win thanks to people around him (or himself) adopting Rovian tactics then a large part of his mission has failed before he's even in the White House. I'll vote for him regardless at this point, but left wing 527s being as bad as Republicans would disappoint me a great deal.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
FlightOfHeaven said:
I'm on page 85 here.

Yeah, I was talking with a Cuban professor down here in South Florida, and I listened to him. Being a professor, he's more predisposed to listen, but I had him state his reasons, in why he was supporting McCain.

The reasons are emotionally powerful. As a youth of 20 years old, he was imprisoned in Cuba for his political ideas. Afterwards, he dedicated his life to fighting the regime/escaping from Cuba. He's been here a total of 15 years.

He's against liberals/socialism because he's seen what the extreme versions do to the country, and since he spent his life, and sacrificed quite a bit, fighting for conservative ideals, it's hard for him to come around and vote Obama.

He's bought into the Republican line, hook and sinker. He's a good guy overall, and readily listened when I corrected him on some things (Obama has 800+ pieces of legislation to his name from the Illinois Senate alone).

He was much more open to me when I revealed that I was initially for McCain in the primaries (true), but I didn't reveal my current stance.

Trying to dissuade him from going McCain. I'll probably see him tomorrow.

Point is, don't think that whoever is voting McCain is stupid, or evil. Some of them have powerfully emotional reasons. Informing them of the facts, though, might help sway some, or at least ease tensions. So please, don't claim that all old Cubans are something or other so dismissively. They have legitimately powerful reasons and stories that I can't blame them for, and neither should you.

P.S. Not a Cuban. <3
Click to expand...

Dude you're never going to catch up. :lol
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Huzah said:
Both sides were lame on nuclear energy, and pigged out on low energy prices for far to long and that's why we are at the energy position we are at. You have to start somewhere and the DEMs are sure not taking the reigns.
Click to expand...

Let me tell you a story of a guy and two girls...

The guy is kind of getting to know the first girl, she's outlined her opinions about life and what she's looking for in a relationship. She would like to have 1 kid when she gets married, guy would like to have 4... oh noez.

Oh but the second girl, she's guy's ex. They dated for 30 months or so.. and went through plenty of ups and down. The downs primarily being when she cheated on him and broke up with his ass. Ups being when she came back to him telling him all he wanted to hear. This girl wants to have 4 kids just like our guy! Oh Joy. Easy choice right?
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
laserbeam said:
I agree. The fact that its been well reported that Obama has given the green light will be used for sure and honestly I think this election has been pretty light on the 527 front. This will start the 527 war fully.

We had that really bad terrorist link ad but thats really the only main one. Obama's camp getting 527's going is gonna get the Republican 527s unleashed and they will go full out
Click to expand...

Because the McCain campaign has been acting like a 527.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
FlightOfHeaven said:
I'm on page 85 here.

Yeah, I was talking with a Cuban professor down here in South Florida, and I listened to him. Being a professor, he's more predisposed to listen, but I had him state his reasons, in why he was supporting McCain.

The reasons are emotionally powerful. As a youth of 20 years old, he was imprisoned in Cuba for his political ideas. Afterwards, he dedicated his life to fighting the regime/escaping from Cuba. He's been here a total of 15 years.

He's against liberals/socialism because he's seen what the extreme versions do to the country, and since he spent his life, and sacrificed quite a bit, fighting for conservative ideals, it's hard for him to come around and vote Obama.

He's bought into the Republican line, hook and sinker. He's a good guy overall, and readily listened when I corrected him on some things (Obama has 800+ pieces of legislation to his name from the Illinois Senate alone).

He was much more open to me when I revealed that I was initially for McCain in the primaries (true), but I didn't reveal my current stance.

Trying to dissuade him from going McCain. I'll probably see him tomorrow.

Point is, don't think that whoever is voting McCain is stupid, or evil. Some of them have powerfully emotional reasons. Informing them of the facts, though, might help sway some, or at least ease tensions. So please, don't claim that all old Cubans are something or other so dismissively. They have legitimately powerful reasons and stories that I can't blame them for, and neither should you.

P.S. Not a Cuban. <3
Click to expand...
I don't think Republican followers are evil. Maybe not as seriously informed as they need be considering the America Bush has left us.

I do think Republican politicians for the most part are evil though. Or at least damn near any we've had in the presidency.
 
eclipze

eclipze

Member
Guts Of Thor said:
I can see the reasoning why people wouldn't want them involved.

I however want every last one of them cranking out negative ad after negative ad after negative ad. If Obama is not willing to fight dirty then someone has to do it for him.
Click to expand...


Very much agreed

For as much blood boils when rediculous attack ads come out and lie about Obama, the vindication of hard hitting ads against McCain is just to sweet to pass up.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Elfforkusu said:
I'm not sure if my post made it clear or not, but my understanding is that nuclear plants are more profitable/economic than coal (which is the only real consideration here... natural gas fired plants is a waste of gas) ... However, it's a high risk/high reward proposition from a business perspective, and that risk is more than sane companies are willing to take.

The public opinion of nuclear power doesn't help, either.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I wanted numbers. Chuck Todd me! Thanks though. :(
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Hitokage said:
Yeah, I've heard similar things. I just want to know what's we're actually looking at with nuclear before throwing in other considerations like carbon emissions.
Click to expand...

Anecdotally, the Olkiluoto 3 is meant to be the model of a new generation of nuclear reactors in Europe. It's several billion dollars over budget and a couple years late. The reactor is being made by the French, who are meant to be whizzes at this thing.

When I was living in the UK the energy industry was being privatized. That's when the first solid figures on the costs of the publicly owned nuke plants came out and they weren't competitive with coal. The government had to keep those plants because there were no takers.

More recently the decommissioning costs have ballooned, which I believe is another issue peculiar to nuclear power. Overall nukes were a disaster for the UK.

If supporters of nuclear power actually copped to the problems of the last decades rather than responding with handwaving (it's always the fault of the NIMBYs and regulators) I'd be more inclined to take them seriously.
 
H

Huzah

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
a) What are these amazing energy breakthroughs?
b) Ghaleon is suggesting he's only supporting it because it's politically expedient, which you're simply defining. It has always been the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

Thin Film Solar, have you heard of it?
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
Because the McCain campaign has been acting like a 527.
Click to expand...

That is the catch though when polled people say this is just politics as usual but the 527s on the other hand do get people upset in polls.

Olbermann etc have come out and flatly said Obama has told Liberal 527s get to smearing. Thats dangerous and will go against the were not that way arguement
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
Freedom = $1.05 said:
Guess who got a call to meet up and do some walking around the olde neighborhood for Obama in the Miami area on Saturday? *finally takes a breath*

This guy. Although I have to admit: I chuckled at the idea of meeting up at Starbucks :lol
Click to expand...

Hey, hey, what's this? Another Miami GAFfer? If you are volunteering, no doubt we'll cross paths at one point or another.

laserbeam said:
I did not say no difference but those 3 arguements are off base. if anything at least McCain is being straight with the people regarding automotive jobs etc. They are done and gone. American greed and desire for Walmart prices killed the Industrial backbone.

Niether side really wants to get rid of the Illegals. We even had the amnesty and then tough law enforcement angle in the 80's saw how well that worked.
Click to expand...

Laserbeam, honest question.

Who are you supporting again?

I seem to recall you supporting McCain at one point, wavering at another, and you seem pretty evenhanded in your criticisms, and fair in most assessments. Just wondering.

And you guys keep scaring ConservGAF away. : (
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
laserbeam said:
That is the catch though when polled people say this is just politics as usual but the 527s on the other hand do get people upset in polls.

Olberman etc have come out and flatly said Obama has told Liberal 527s get to smearing. Thats dangerous
Click to expand...

I think Olberman often does more harm than good.. that stupid ass question "is sarah palin qualified" comes to mind.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Hitokage said:
Yeah, but I wanted numbers. Chuck Todd me! Thanks though. :(
Click to expand...
I understand. I've been thinking I need to track them down again (if only to see how the new designs factor in), I will report back if/when I find them. :D
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
And you guys keep scaring ConservGAF away. : (
Click to expand...
Hey, intelligent posters are always welcome. Allowing people like SEGA SAMMY or King_Slender to hang around just because they're conservative smacks of affirmative action and we all know they'd rather kill themselves than be beneficiaries of it.
 
J

Jak140

Member
Apparently, Republicans in swing states are going to challenge voters whose homes have been foreclosed.

Let me see if I have this new Republican strategy straight. First they remove lending regulations allowing the rich to get richer on predatory home loans, then when the market crashes they bail the rich out while the the people who were preyed upon by predatory lenders are left out in the cold. Now the same Republican Party whose disastrous economic policy created this whole situation in the first place are going to deny the people who lost their homes the right to vote them out.

This is some diabolical shit. I mean this is so cartoonishly evil that it would be funny if it weren't actually happening.

Michigan Republicans plan to foreclose African American voters

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

“We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren’t voting from those addresses,” party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.

State election rules allow parties to assign “election challengers” to polls to monitor the election. In addition to observing the poll workers, these volunteers can challenge the eligibility of any voter provided they “have a good reason to believe” that the person is not eligible to vote. One allowable reason is that the person is not a “true resident of the city or township.”

The Michigan Republicans’ planned use of foreclosure lists is apparently an attempt to challenge ineligible voters as not being “true residents.”

One expert questioned the legality of the tactic.

“You can’t challenge people without a factual basis for doing so,” said J. Gerald Hebert, a former voting rights litigator for the U.S. Justice Department who now runs the Campaign Legal Center, a Washington D.C.-based public-interest law firm. “I don’t think a foreclosure notice is sufficient basis for a challenge, because people often remain in their homes after foreclosure begins and sometimes are able to negotiate and refinance.”
Click to expand...

http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Huzah said:
Energy plans will create ALOT more economic growth than socialized health care, and true permanent wealth creation making future social programs more possible.
Click to expand...
A properly designed health system could save 4-6% in GDP. We're not talking about peanuts.
Mandark said:
But there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that nuclear plants aren't economically effective, the biggest piece being that the market has basically rejected them. If we're going to spend tax money on this I'd like to see more on the plus side of the ledger than "doesn't emit carbon."
Click to expand...
Properly price coal externalities and that could change though. Of course same problem with Nuclear exists, I don't even know how you could price the externalities there since so clearly nobody is willing to live with them

The biggest question is probably time horizon. But honestly the best short term solutions are probably just better grid + nanny state conservation bs. I also feel like I've read a ton of articles lately about how close solar-thermal is for prime time.

I don't remember the details of McCain's carbon emissions plan. I think he's for cap and trade, but for a lower limit and not auctioning, or something?

Gaborn said:
is not REALLY as against marriage equality as he claims, and is essentially being misleading on most of his platform
Click to expand...
As far as what he "REALLY" wants, this one is pretty meaningless in terms of practical implications.
Huzah said:
Yes because oil going from 70 dollars to 140 dollars in less than a year and the recent breakthroughs in energy technology HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT correct?
Click to expand...
Either way, doesn't speak particularly well.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
remember kids, satan (and the republicans) benefit most on low turnouts! they'll contest every single vote they can. they are still the party of disenfranchisement.
 
H

Huzah

Member
Mandark said:
Anecdotally, the Olkiluoto 3 is meant to be the model of a new generation of nuclear reactors in Europe. It's several billion dollars over budget and a couple years late. The reactor is being made by the French, who are meant to be whizzes at this thing.

When I was living in the UK the energy industry was being privatized. That's when the first solid figures on the costs of the publicly owned nuke plants came out and they weren't competitive with coal. The government had to keep those plants because there were no takers.

More recently the decommissioning costs have ballooned, which I believe is another issue peculiar to nuclear power. Overall nukes were a disaster for the UK.

If supporters of nuclear power actually copped to the problems of the last decades rather than responding with handwaving (it's always the fault of the NIMBYs and regulators) I'd be more inclined to take them seriously.
Click to expand...

Dude I guess our solution is more coal and natural gas? How much would a solar project in Britain for the same magawatts cost? How much does that offshore wind project cost in Britain?

There's IS NO OTHER FEASEABLE AND VIABLE SOURCE OF BASELOAD POWER BESIDES NUCLEAR.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Jak140 said:
This is some diabolical shit. I mean this is so cartoonishly evil that it would be funny if it weren't actually happening.
Click to expand...
Mr_Burns.png
 
S

slidewinder

Banned
Elfforkusu said:
It really comes down to standardizing reactor design to limit costs, and providing some level of government assistance to get through the early years. There are some good reactor designs, and some very safe ones (simple failsafes based entirely on the force of gravity to make sure a meltdown can never happen, etc), so the first could happen if people get their act together.
Click to expand...
That WAS definitely a big issue, but it's not really so much of one nowadays. GE's 'Advanced Boiling Water Reactor,' for example, was certified (standardized and approved) by the NRC in 1996. Three others have been certified since, with a bunch more in the pipeline.

Public perception, including that with regard to waste issues, is the big hold-up at this point. Regardless, there are 24 new plants proposed at this moment (PDF). That's pretty significant, given that we have only around 100 active plants right now, with no new ones having been built since the late 70s.

Edit: Link to the EIA's nuke home-page for a bunch of good stuff.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Gruco said:
Properly price coal externalities and that could change though. Of course same problem with Nuclear exists, I don't even know how you could price the externalities there since so clearly nobody is willing to live with them

The biggest question is probably time horizon. But honestly the best short term solutions are probably just better grid + nanny state conservation bs. I also feel like I've read a ton of articles lately about how close solar-thermal is for prime time.

I don't remember the details of McCain's carbon emissions plan. I think he's for cap and trade, but for a lower limit and not auctioning, or something?
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. You slap on an appropriate carbon tax or capntrade system and everything not coal becomes a lot more competitive.

Which is a big reason why I'm not crazy about directly subsidizing nuclear. Once you've raised the costs of carbon-based energy you've already given nukes a subsidy; if they still can't compete in that environment why favor it over safer, cleaner, more flexible options?

I think you're right about conservation and efficiency being the main bridge to renewables.

McCain's plan is kind of half-assed. It's a cap and trade but he's described it as being "not a mandatory cap" which makes me think he doesn't really understand it. He sponsored the Lieberman-Warner bill but pulled his support later.

I honestly think he only cares about bombing places and ethics in a narrow sense (corrupt contracting, earmarks, campaign reform). He'll say whatever he needs to about bombing-deprived issues if it'll get his finger on the button.
 
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