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[JayDubya]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and proclaim that Obama knows more about the Constitution, and what is Constitutional, than you do.

As a professor of Constitutional law, I wish that were the case, but all evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Learn2read]

From April 9, 2007:

MR. RUSSERT: I want to go back to 2002, because it’s important as to what people were saying then and what the American people were hearing. Here’s Joe Biden about Saddam Hussein: “He’s a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security.”

“We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.”

“He must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.” You were emphatic about that.

SEN. BIDEN: That’s right, and I was correct about that... And I pointed out to you that they had not developed that capacity at all. But he did have these stockpiles everywhere.

MR. RUSSERT: Where are (the WMD?)

SEN. BIDEN: Well, the point is, it turned out they didn’t, but everyone in the world thought he had them.

The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued—they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued. They looked at them and catalogued. What he did with them, who knows? The real mystery is, if he, if he didn’t have any of them left, why didn’t he say so? Well, a lot of people say if he had said that, he would’ve, you know, emboldened Iran and so on and so forth.


http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/08/joe-biden-speaks-out-on-saddams.html

The reason that the WMD question was unanswered was that weapons inspectors were in Iraq and were denied by Bush more time to check if these claims were true or not. They were responsible and like everything else with this administration, if facts were inconvenient, they were ignored. If you're trying to tell me that a Dem. administration would have resulted in the Iraq mess we're in now, then you're a lying fuck.

 

[Frank the Great]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and proclaim that Obama knows more about the Constitution, and what is Constitutional, than you do.

Guys, can we make a concerted effort to stop any bickering with JayDub over the Constitution?

He is clearly in the vast minority, not only on this board but in the entire country. There's really no need to waste our time.

We should be panicking about the polls instead.

 

[Hitokage]

Guys, can we make a concerted effort to stop any bickering with JayDub over the Constitution?

He is clearly in the vast minority, not only on this board but in the entire country. There's really no need to waste our time.

We should be panicking about the polls instead.

If it comes to just those choices I might as well lock the thread.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and proclaim that Obama knows more about the Constitution, and what is Constitutional, than you do.

He must, if he thinks the FISA bill is constitutional

 

[reilo]

As a professor of Constitutional law, I wish that were the case, but all evidence is to the contrary.

You are a professor of Constitutional law? Because all evidence points that you don't know what you're talking about, either. But hey, who's counting!

 

[Frank the Great]

He must, if he thinks the FISA bill is constitutional

It's SO fucking tempting to argue with you guys. I really want to know how FISA is unconstitutional.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Jesus Christ, it's not over by a long shot. There hasn't even been a debate yet, and the ground game for Obama is orders of magnitudes beyond what Kerry had. I've expressed some concerns about the way the campaign has been running of late but this election is far from decided as of today.

 

[AniHawk]

If it comes to just those choices I might as well lock the thread.

What about the epic battle between wolves and babies?

 

[Hitokage]

What about the epic battle between wolves and babies?

Wolves were actually a nice change of pace from the flood of panicked posts. Going back to the wall to bang our heads against it... not as much.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/09/earth_first_eco.html

yeah you are

Man, wanting a balance between humanity and nature is not what those fringe groups do, so don't try to spin it like that.

And Xeke, ultimately, I know that nature will be fine. It'll fix itself at some point. I even alluded to that much in my previous post. But all things considered, I'd like humanity to survive a bit longer than where our current behaviors and attitudes are pushing us. Am I talking doom and gloom? Not necessarily. What I'm saying is that humanity needs to wise up a lot more regarding its impact on our ecosystem. I'm not suggesting going and crying over trees. I'm suggesting some measure of rationality in how we treat nature and the earth, because so far it's like we see nature as our plaything.

 

[scorcho]

sober analysis from a blog i check out often. he's made sentiments towards this in the past, but the recent change in the tenor of the campaign made this resonate more -

Barring a poor performance in debate or a sudden disclosure of grossly damaging information, it seems to me that the presidential election outcome is now clear.

Obama made a fatal error in not putting Hilary Clinton on the ticket. She is strong in parts of the country where he is weak and will remain weak. Her presence on the ticket would have reassured some who might have made a difference. The unfortunate truth is, as I have said before, that there remains a lot of racist sentiment in parts of the United States. It is vice that will not name itself, and it certainly is not all in the South. Appalachia generally, the Mid-West, the Great Plains, and the Mountain West are full of it. Polling has revealed this clearly for all those who do not indulge themselves with wishful thinking. Obama's obvious status as a member of the intelligentsia exacerbates that prejudice in the "minds" of many. In addition, Sarah Palin's appearance on the ticket as "just plain mom," churchgoing, ill informed and earnest summons forth a new demographic. That demographic is women who are; not feminists, who cling to traditional values and for whom she is a shining justification of their own lives. In the context of "corporate" politics, and the long standing red/blue division of the country, these things add up to "a win."

no comment.

 

[JayDubya]

You are a professor of Constitutional law? Because all evidence points that you don't know what you're talking about, either. But hey, who's counting!

Obama was. Which is sad, given that he apparently can't read.

 

[gkryhewy]

Today might later be remembered as the beginning of the end for Obama

What hysterical drivel.

 

[Gaborn]

It's SO fucking tempting to argue with you guys. I really want to know how FISA is unconstitutional.

It calls into question due process and your fourth amendment rights. If presidents have those powers and you have no appeals process and no way of even knowing it's happening in the first place then constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure mean nothing, especially since phone conversations are part of your right to privacy... unless of course a judge issues a warrant to allow the government to listen in.

Scorcho - I'm glad that guy agrees with my point that hillary should've been VP.

 

[Dahellisdat]

You are a professor of Constitutional law? Because all evidence points that you don't know what you're talking about, either. But hey, who's counting!

He's talking about Obama.

 

[Frank the Great]

If it comes to just those choices I might as well lock the thread.

 

[Gruco]

Obama picked Biden because Biden complements Obama and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

McCain picked Palin because Palin complements McCain and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

Anyone saying otherwise in either case, either way, is blowing smoke up your ass.

People really, really do overlook the administrative angle on these things.

http://electoral-vote.com/

It's over, guys..

Seriously, don't use electoral vote. It's basically a useless anachronism at this point.

Also holy crap@the view.

 

[Branduil]

fucking shit. I asked you to stop going in circles. Now I am left to question your need for control in other free people's lives and you're just going to shoot back with some bullshit about how I don't care about human life.

And then you contradict your first point with your second. You want less gov't control, yet you wish them to control people in the most literal of ways. You're not wishing for healthcare or retirement control, you're wishing for physical bodily control.

But thanks for trying!

Well, if you want to think badly about someone, no one's going to stop you. I don't believe protecting the life of the unborn is an unnecessarily intrusive government duty, so if you want to make an argument, you'll have to address the humanity of the fetus, not the government intrusion.

 

[Soybean]

If Kerry was at 273 at this point and lost the election, then why the fuck do we care?

 

[Stinkles]

As a professor of Constitutional law, I wish that were the case, but all evidence is to the contrary.

The way you've worded this implies that you are a professor of constitutional law. You should have a grammarian look into it.

 

[Frank the Great]

It calls into question due process and your fourth amendment rights. If presidents have those powers and you have no appeals process and no way of even knowing it's happening in the first place then constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure mean nothing, especially since phone conversations are part of your right to privacy... unless of course a judge issues a warrant to allow the government to listen in.

Scorcho - I'm glad that guy agrees with my point that hillary should've been VP.

Right to privacy isn't in the Constitution. And your argument is assuming that phone calls fall under "search and seizure" which is a pretty hard argument to make considering phone calls weren't around in the time of the Bill of Rights.

You're right about due process though.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

If that vile lying scum McCain wins then the majority of the voting population of the USA deserves every bit of venom spat at it by the world. It just boggles the mind that he is that close to winning...

 

[GhaleonEB]

Well, if you want to think badly about someone, no one's going to stop you. I don't believe protecting the life of the unborn is an unnecessarily intrusive government duty, so if you want to make an argument, you'll have to address the humanity of the fetus, not the government intrusion.

Or how about respecting the rights of the woman?

 

[speculawyer]

Damn, sounds like McCain got smacked down on "The View" . . . and the AP piled on. :lol

McCain fumbles Palin's record on earmark requests
By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Friday defended two debunked television ads attacking Democrat Barack Obama and claimed erroneously that running mate Sarah Palin never sought money for lawmakers' pet projects as Alaska governor. Palin has sought nearly $200 million in earmarks this year alone.

McCain made the comments during a feisty grilling on ABC's "The View," where the panel of female hosts pressed him on Palin's religious views, his position on abortion rights and whether he had traded in his maverick ways to placate conservatives.

In Alaska, meanwhile, the investigator looking into whether Palin abused her power as governor in trying to fire her former brother-in-law asked state lawmakers for the power to subpoena Palin's husband, Todd, a dozen others and the phone records of a top aide. The state House and Senate judiciary committees were expected to grant the request.

McCain's appearance on "The View," which is popular among women, came the day after ABC News aired Palin's first wide-ranging interview. She sought to clarify her views on global warming — in the past she has doubted the connection between human behavior and climate change — and hinted that the U.S. might need to go to war with Russia over its incursion into Georgia.

Palin appeared to agree with Obama that the U.S. military had the right to cross the Pakistani border without the government's approval to seize terrorists there. She also seemed stumped when asked by ABC anchorman Charles Gibson whether she agreed with the so-called "Bush doctrine" of preventive war laid out after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

When asked if she supported the doctrine, Palin replied, "In what respect?"

Palin was in Alaska on Friday, holding meetings and taping a new interview segment with Gibson. She was scheduled to attend a campaign rally in Nevada on Saturday while McCain took the day off, a reflection of her growing status as the GOP ticket's celebrity draw.

The McCain campaign defended Palin's much-criticized inquiry into banning books at her hometown library, saying her questions were only hypothetical.

Shortly after taking office in 1996 as mayor of Wasilla, a city of about 7,000 people, Palin asked the city's head librarian about banning books. Later, Palin told the librarian that she was being fired, although Palin backed off under pressure.

Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said Thursday that Palin asked the head librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had asked the library to remove a title the year before and Palin wanted to understand how such disputes were handled.

Records on the city's Web site, however, do not show any books were challenged in Wasilla in the 10 years before Palin took office.

On "The View," McCain said that Palin had "ignited a spark" among voters but acknowledged they parted ways on certain issues. The Arizona has said human behavior is largely responsible for climate change and opposes drilling for oil in a federally protected refuge, for example.

McCain also appeared to back off a bit from his claim that Palin was the best vice presidential pick in U.S. history when he joked, "We politicians are never given to exaggeration or hyperbole."

McCain said he had chosen Palin because she would help to reform Washington, specifically cited curbing federal spending for earmarks. When pressed about Palin's record of requesting and accepting such money for Alaska, McCain ignored the record and said, "Not as governor she didn't."

McCain also stood by two of his campaign commercials — one which said Obama favored comprehensive sex education for kindergarten students and another that suggested the Democratic hopeful had called Palin a pig. Both are misleading and factually inaccurate.

Obama, as an Illinois state senator, voted in favor of legislation that would teach age appropriate sex education to kindergartners, including information on rejecting advances by sexual predators. And while Obama told a campaign rally this week that electing McCain would be like "putting lipstick on a pig," he never used the phrase in connection to Palin.

"Those ads aren't true. They're lies," said "View" co-host Joy Behar.

"They're not lies," McCain said, insisting that Obama "chooses his words very carefully" and should never had made the lipstick remark.

McCain defended Palin's conservative religious views but said if president he would maintain a clear separation of church and state. He also reiterated his opposition to Roe vs. Wade, the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion rights.

"I believe Roe vs. Wade was a very bad decision," he said to a smattering of boos.

Asked what he would do to overturn the decision, McCain said he would appoint Supreme Court justices who would strictly interpret the Constitution.

McCain appeared irked when Behar asked him whether he had jettisoned his independence as a candidate, contending that he appeared to be in "lock step" with President Bush's policies.

"What specific area have I, quote, 'changed?' Nobody can name it," McCain said.

McCain has changed positions on significant issues. For example, he once opposed Bush's tax cuts but now supports making them permanent. He had opposed lifting the ban on additional offshore drilling but now calls for drilling off the U.S. coast. He was against mandatory caps on greenhouse gas emissions but now favors them.

Cindy McCain, who joined her husband for the last part of the show, said she disagreed with Palin's view that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape or incest.

The wealthy beer heiress refused to say how many homes she and her husband own — a question that tripped up the candidate last month. They own multiple properties in Arizona, California and outside Washington, D.C.

"That's not part of this campaign," Cindy McCain said. "We are fortunate to be able to live a good life and share with other people who are not so fortunate."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912...republicans;_ylt=ArrMkCc6_CnR8RGbkv8t_Pus0NUE

I don't think that is gonna help him with women.

 

[reilo]

Obama was. Which is sad, given that he apparently can't read.

Hey, keep living in your bubble and believe that no document of law can ever be wrong. Then again, someone that's such a professor of grammar like you, maybe you should have worded your original sentence better.

 

[Duke Togo]

Do not panic.

 

[Cloudy]

AP calls McLiar out again:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912...republicans;_ylt=AnpaYk0EWzB8Eih0xF0yT9myFz4D

 

[Dahellisdat]

Well, if you want to think badly about someone, no one's going to stop you. I don't believe protecting the life of the unborn is an unnecessarily intrusive government duty, so if you want to make an argument, you'll have to address the humanity of the fetus, not the government intrusion.

There are many much more important things to consider this election in regards to your candidate of choice than abortion.

 

[Branduil]

If that vile lying scum McCain wins then the majority of the voting population of the USA deserves every bit of venom spat at it by the world. It just boggles the mind that he is that close to winning...

See, this is what I was talking about. If the candidate of choice doesn't win then everyone in America is evil and should be shot.

 

[gkryhewy]

If that vile lying scum McCain wins then the majority of the voting population of the USA deserves every bit of venom spat at it by the world. It just boggles the mind that he is that close to winning...

He was always going to get ~48%+ of the popular vote. Remember, at least half of america is functionally retarded.

 

[TDG]

If Kerry was at 273 at this point and lost the election, then why the fuck do we care?

Because liberals like to get upset. That's why they all watch Fox News and listen to Limbaugh and Hannity.

 

[laserbeam]

He was always going to get ~48%+ of the popular vote. Remember, at least half of america is functionally retarded.

Talk about functionally retarded. Your avatar is still not proper forum size.

Its called political Preference. Accept it or dont talk about it at all. People who don't agree with you are everywhere in the world. Get used to it.

 

[JayDubya]

Or how about respecting the rights of the woman?

A respect for human rights is a good reason to oppose the legality of aggressive homicide, actually.

A belief in human rights and equality is highly incongruent with the notion of a right to kill someone else on a whim.

 

[gkryhewy]

Talk about functionally retarded. Your avatar is still not proper forum size.

:lol :lol :lol

What an absurd reply.

76x120 scaled to 90x120. A little fuzzy, but what's wrong with that?

 

[Branduil]

Or how about respecting the rights of the woman?

Women should have the same rights as everybody. Including the right not to be killed before they are born.

There are many much more important things to consider this election in regards to your candidate of choice than abortion.

I disagree.

 

[Gaborn]

Right to privacy isn't in the Constitution. And your argument is assuming that phone calls fall under "search and seizure" which is a pretty hard argument to make considering phone calls weren't around in the time of the Bill of Rights.

You're right about due process though.

I never said right to privacy is in the constitution. It has however been established in a series of Supreme Court cases, and whether I agree with those cases or not I can't ignore they exist, in fact, only the supreme court itself can overturn the precedents they set, and according to the Court the right to privacy exists. Also, there have been several cases which establish the precedent that phone records and phone calls themselves are protected under the 4th amendment, 14th amendment and the "Penumbra" of rights that the Warren Court so beloved.

 

[JayDubya]

Hey, keep living in your bubble and believe that no document of law can ever be wrong. Then again, someone that's such a professor of grammar like you, maybe you should have worded your original sentence better.

I presumed it was safe to assume that you fanboys knew your candidate well enough that [he was] was unneccessary.

 

[reilo]

It calls into question due process and your fourth amendment rights. If presidents have those powers and you have no appeals process and no way of even knowing it's happening in the first place then constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure mean nothing, especially since phone conversations are part of your right to privacy... unless of course a judge issues a warrant to allow the government to listen in.

Scorcho - I'm glad that guy agrees with my point that hillary should've been VP.

Which is befuddling as to why you protected Palin's executive privilege to withhold emails in the current investigation she is under. If you believe in due process and in warrants, then you must oppose executive privilege, correct?

I presumed it was safe to assume that you fanboys knew your candidate well enough that [he was] was unneccessary.

I used some glib humor to show that you are comparing yourself to a constitutional law professor and proclaim that you know better about a subject he spent a lifetime studying.

 

[Dolphin]

And incidentally, he supports violations of the 2nd Amendment

Specifically?

and supports making the tax codes in this country even more unjust than it already is.

More unjust? In what way?

No, he's going to preserve the status quo on abortion, and increase the involvement of government in our lives.

Are these two points not directly contradictory to one another?

 

[Door2Dawn]

What a load of horseshit.

I didn't hear anything about how its the end for McCain when Obama was 310 ev and up on 538 two weeks ago. Now that McCain is getting bumps in the polls FROM HIS FUCKING CONVENTION,and its the end for Obama?

 

[aceface]

Has the McCain campaign's response to the Palin book banning rumors been discussed here yet? Way to legitimize and lend credence to the claims of book banning! They would have been much better off saying nothing. :lol

 

[thekad]

See, this is what I was talking about. If the candidate of choice doesn't win then everyone in America is evil and should be shot.

Stop using strawmen while accusing other people of using strawmen!!!

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

See, this is what I was talking about. If the candidate of choice doesn't win then everyone in America is evil and should be shot.

I said the majority of the voting population of the United States of America not everyone in the country.

Presidents are still elected depending on a majority right? Or doesn't that happen anymore?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Women should have the same rights as everybody. Including the right not to be killed before they are born.

Women should have the same rights as everybody. Including the right not to have the government dictate personal medical decisions on their behalf.

As a father of two beautiful daughters, no one has the right to take that away from them.

 

[Gaborn]

Which is befuddling as to why you protected Palin's executive privilege to withhold emails in the current investigation she is under. If you believe in due process and in warrants, then you must oppose executive privilege, correct?

On a personal level? Sure. On a legal level? The Supreme Court says it exists, whether it exists in that case or not is up to the courts to decide.

 

[Branduil]

Are these two points not directly contradictory to one another?

Only if you believe protecting the lives of the unborn is an unnecessary government duty, which I don't.

Women should have the same rights as everybody. Including the right not to have the government dictate personal medical decisions on their behalf.

As a father of two beautiful daughters, no one has the right to take that away from them.

I don't believe a human being is a "medical decision."

I appreciate your love for your daughters, and I know you would never call them that. But there are many children who will never even have the opportunity to experience love, or the concept of rights, because people think of them as medical decisions.

 

[thefro]

Roger Ebert comes down from the sky, gives Palin the THUMBS DOWN

 

[Hitokage]

:lol :lol :lol

What an absurd reply.

76x120 scaled to 90x120. A little fuzzy, but what's wrong with that?

It's not scaled to 90x120.

 

[speculawyer]

As a professor of Constitutional law, I wish that were the case, but all evidence is to the contrary.

It is clear that Obama knows a lot more about the Constitution and what is constitutional. Just because he doesn't share your particular views of what you think the Constitution means is not evidence of him not knowing the constitution. In fact he's spent years teaching what has and has not been ruled constitutional.