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[Branduil]

No amount of reflection is going to convince me that a clump of DNA in a woman's fallopian tube should be prioritized over a social and sentient creature.

You could be right. There are many on the left and right who don't change their minds after examining things critically. But don't you owe it to yourself to do it anyway? Is it bad to reflect, or consider why others believe what they do?

 

[Tamanon]

You could be right. There are many on the left and right who don't change their minds after examining things critically. But don't you owe it to yourself to do it anyway? Is it bad to reflect, or consider why others believe what they do?

To be fair your entire argument might have some minor merit if people offered $150 for dead fetuses.

 

[JayDubya]

Obama picked Biden because Biden complements Obama and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

McCain picked Palin because Palin complements McCain and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

Anyone saying otherwise in either case, either way, is blowing smoke up your ass.

 

[polyh3dron]

If I'm spending time on this thread, how can I not? It's not as if I'm ignoring people's points, and it's not as if some people aren't stereotyping every single conservative, on this very page even. Why do none of you confront that? Why are you content with people espousing garish caricatures of opposing thought?

Maybe it's because John McCain's campaign reinforces every single one of those stereotypes plus creates a few new ones.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yet you would complain if I accused you of lacking empathy for babies. So why is okay for YOU to do it? That's what I want people to think about.

I know you disagree with me, and I understand that viewpoint; it's a reasonable one to have. So someone saying that about me doesn't bother me one bit. I just assume people understand the passions around the issue and can deal with it.

 

[thekad]

Is Branduil purposely demonstrating the fallacies he accuses liberal-GAF of partaking in? I thought APF had a monopoly on that...

 

[reilo]

Obama picked Biden because Biden complements Obama and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

McCain picked Palin because Palin complements McCain and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

Anyone saying otherwise in either case, either way, is blowing smoke up your ass.

You're so full of shit. If Palin was more in line with mainstream women and was pro-Choice, would you be defending her so badly at every turn?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Obama went safe with Biden, McCain took a gamble and it's paid off with the electorate so far. Biden simply isn't an interesting pick. Hillary's flaws aside she would've been an INTERESTING pick and would've potentially forced McCain to be more conventional with his choice.

Yes, but INTERESTING doesn't mean that it would have paid off. For all the talk of it being the dream ticket, I'm sure it's just as likely possible that any conflicts on any issue would have just given rise to an "is the dream team truly united?" narrative.

The fact of the matter is that it's impossible to know what could have been, or what will happen until it actually happens. If McCain wins the election, then I'm sure there will definitely be some cries of "See? I knew he should have picked Hillary," or even some "See? Hillary should have been our nominee." If Obama wins, though, it's all moot, and he made the right calls.

I know I'm not really adding anything insightful here, but these debates always strike me as being a complete waste of time, even moreso than what we or the media typically talk about.

 

[artredis1980]

more reviews from her ABC interviews from Politico

EXPERTS

Leon E. Panetta, Former Democratic representative and head of OMB:
No question that Palin learned her lines well. Her obvious weakness was when Gibson probed beneath the lines to the substance of policy. The problem is that in politics, soundbites count more than substance and she has the soundbites down. After all, so did George Bush.

Zach Wamp, Rep. (R-Tenn.):
Governor Palin is confident, smart, disciplined and while not yet totally prepared on the issues, she clearly is getting there....The country likes her so she will get a pass or two. If she holds up beyond that, she could be a transformative woman in American history. If not, we will all be disappointed.

Jeff Shesol, Speechwriter, author and comic-strip artist:
The fact that she "didn't blink" at John McCain's offer of the vice presidency says far less than the fact that she continues to blink (and run and hide) at the prospect of truly meeting the press in an uncontrolled forum -- like a press conference.

Tim Griffin, Republican attorney and strategist:
Ultimately, she held her own and demonstrated the qualities people like about her: strength and accessibility. Grade: B+

Steven G. Calabresi, Professor of law, Northwestern University:
Palin’s interview shows her to be Reaganesque in her toughness, niceness, and ability to connect with ordinary Americans. The gaffe of the week was Biden’s concession that Hillary would have been a better choice as Obama’s running mate.

NORMAL JOE'S

Lloyd Thompson (guest), Web Developer, TX:
I never detected insincerity in her interview, although I did detect a great deal of self-deception, something I've spotted in President Bush, and a hallmark of people who get into situations over their head. With no bearings to judge where one stands, the truth becomes a situational entity.

Paula Stephen (guest), CEO, CA:
Independent voter leaning McCain but against Palin....Every American should be afraid of this woman.

Jae Vargas (guest), Aircraft Maintenance Technicain, NY:
Overall i think she did well enough as not to cause a major scandal however her answers did not seem to be from a candidate that had a clear grasp of the issues

Christeena Kale (guest), small business owner, CA:
I also must admit, that no matter how well she does in these interviews, I am disturbed by the fact that she needed 12 days to prepare for them. No VP gets 12 days to prepare for assuming leadership should something disastrous happen.

David Norris (guest), Software Engineer, TX:
Not well. I was particularly annoyed with her attempt to twist her statement that the Iraq war is "God's plan" into something resembling what Abraham Lincoln said. Lincoln's statement that we should make sure we are on God's side, rather than vice versa, cautioned against making the exact kind of statement she made. And I think one administration that cannot properly pronounce the word "nuclear " is enough. Perhaps George himself has been tutoring her.

Marc Onigman (guest), Salesman, MA:
She did better answering the questions than Gibson did asking them. In the sit-down segment, he seemed annoyed and condescending.

Stephen Asare (guest), Professor, FL:
It is time to evaluate the VP model, which in some instances, as here, gives the people a mere 50 days to evaluate an unknown potential VP.

Chris Ferreira (guest), Student, MA:
It would be downright scary for this country should she ever become President.

 

[Branduil]

Dude conservatives do to the same thing all the time. Stop whining as if you are a persecuted minority. And I personally have mentioned the group think by liberals on the board many times. If there were 50 conservatives here they would be group thinking the same way. The few conservatives that are on the board tend to demonstrate this anyway by reguritating some of the same talking points.

I don't disagree with you, and I have noticed you as one of the more level-headed liberals on here, and I appreciate that. My point is not that I'm a persecuted minority, though it's hard to not be defensive on GAF when most people disagree with you. My point is that not even trying to understand the other side is dumb. And it happens way too often here.

Maybe it's because John McCain's campaign reinforces every single one of those stereotypes plus creates a few new ones.

Who said I like McCain? You're assuming things again.

 

[qwertybob]

To be fair your entire argument might have some minor merit if people offered $150 for dead fetuses.

hmm you got me thinking now, i wonder what they would sell for on ebay in a nice display case?

 

[JayDubya]

No amount of reflection is going to convince me that a clump of DNA in a woman's fallopian tube should be prioritized over a social and sentient creature.

a)

What an out-of-nowhere reply

b) No priority involved in saying that neither party should be legally allowed to initiate lethal force against the other. That's not priority. That's equality.

 

[polyh3dron]

Is Branduil purposely demonstrating the fallacies he accuses liberal-GAF of partaking in? I thought APF had a monopoly on that...

Looks like the monopoly has become an oligopoly.

 

[gkryhewy]

Obama picked Biden because Biden complements Obama and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

McCain picked Palin because Palin complements McCain and what he needed to optimize his ticket.

Anyone saying otherwise in either case, either way, is blowing smoke up your ass.

What Obama should have done was pick that Barney Smith from the convention. Don't vote for me because I can bring change to Washington - vote for me because you can! Then BAM, what a curveball!

At least Barney wouldn't feign foreign policy competence with bullshit.

 

[mckmas8808]

Obama went safe with Biden, McCain took a gamble and it's paid off with the electorate so far. Biden simply isn't an interesting pick. Hillary's flaws aside she would've been an INTERESTING pick and would've potentially forced McCain to be more conventional with his choice.

McCain was always going to be leading Obama right now.

To bad too many non-thinking people forget that McCain led Obama one day before the DNC started.

This desperate pick McCain will NOT lead him to victory inZ november. No VP has ever helped a candidate with states all over the country in a presidential election.

 

[AniHawk]

Barbara walters pressing mccain, mccain claims palin never accepted earmarks and will reform washington

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc10INQmBwQ

Wow, that was brutal.

Barbara Walters was fucking on that shit.

"She sold the plane,"
Barbara: No she didn't.
Everyone together now: She sold it at a loss.

 

[Evlar]

a)

b) No priority involved in saying that neither party should be legally allowed to initiate lethal force against the other. That's not priority. That's equality.

"lethal force" is a pleasant little legal myth.

 

[Tamanon]

Steven G. Calabresi, Professor of law, Northwestern University:
Palin’s interview shows her to be Reaganesque in her toughness, niceness, and ability to connect with ordinary Americans. The gaffe of the week was Biden’s concession that Hillary would have been a better choice as Obama’s running mate.

OK, I understand spin, I understand being positive.

REAGANESQUE??:lol :lol

 

[Branduil]

Do you think statements like this encourage people to listen to you? Don't get me wrong, I think you have a point in saying that Republicans aren't inherently evil. I live in one of the reddest states in the country and the evidence is as plain as day that most Republicans have good intentions. I just don't agree with them on the issues. I have a feeling that calling the folks in this thread self-righteous is just going to make them ignore you and never take you seriously. It can be tough to be the only person representing a certain viewpoint, but simply trying to rile people up isn't going to get you anywhere.

If anyone besides ronito and polyhedron feels I was calling them self-righteous, I apologize. That was not my intent.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I know this isn't really the place for this, but this is an interesting read on what kind of impact the surge created in Iraq:

http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/...t-mccain-gets-wrong-about-the-surge-and-iraq/

I've always felt the biggest contributing factors to the reduction of violence in Iraq were the Sunni Awakening and Sadr's cease-fire agreement.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Wow, that was brutal.

Barbara Walters was fucking on that shit.

"She sold the plane,"
Barbara: No she didn't.
Everyone together now: She sold it at a loss.

His claim that she didn't take earmarks as governor is the biggest lie of the election so far. And he's been telling a whole lot of whoppers.

 

[The Lamonster]

I don't disagree with you, and I have noticed you as one of the more level-headed liberals on here, and I appreciate that. My point is not that I'm a persecuted minority, though it's hard to not be defensive on GAF when most people disagree with you. My point is that not even trying to understand the other side is dumb. And it happens way too often here.

playing the victim card.

Do us a favor and stop going in circles on this issue. You haven't reached ignore-list status yet, and I'd like to keep it that way...

 

[Funky Papa]

Looks like the monopoly has become an oligopoly.

Don't worry, the free market will solv... what?

 

[reilo]

I don't disagree with you, and I have noticed you as one of the more level-headed liberals on here, and I appreciate that. My point is not that I'm a persecuted minority, though it's hard to not be defensive on GAF when most people disagree with you. My point is that not even trying to understand the other side is dumb. And it happens way too often here.

Who said I like McCain? You're assuming things again.

I think you're underestimating many of us when you proclaim that we don't understand the other side.

We do understand the other side, but we just profusely disagree with it.

What more do we need to know about McCain? What more do we need to know about who runs his campaign? If we find out tomorrow that all of his campaign staffers plant lilies and teach mentally disabled kids on the weekends, would that change any of their policies? Of course not.

 

[Xeke]

CNN just said that Palin's husband and a dozen aids are getting subpoenaed. Is that old? I haven't been following the thread.

 

[Tamanon]

I know this isn't really the place for this, but this is an interesting read on what kind of impact the surge created in Iraq:

http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/...t-mccain-gets-wrong-about-the-surge-and-iraq/

I've always felt the biggest contributing factors to the reduction of violence in Iraq were the Sunni Awakening and Sadr's cease-fire agreement.

You'd be correct. But the problem is that you'll never see that acknowledged in politics because it devalues the impact of American troops(seemingly at least) and it forces people to realize that *WE* are actually paying people not to attack us.

 

[Gaborn]

McCain was always going to be leading Obama right now.

To bad too many non-thinking people forget that McCain led Obama one day before the DNC started.

This desperate pick McCain will NOT lead him to victory inZ november. No VP has ever helped a candidate with states all over the country in a presidential election.

Well, I haven't claimed picking Palin would somehow lead or not lead to a November win (although McCain may or may not win regardless) but I do think what he did with her being such a relative unknown is dominate the news cycle. Let's change it a little, let's say Obama picked Hillary and McCain picked Romney. Do you really think Romney would be getting as much coverage as Palin's gotten?

 

[Branduil]

I think you're underestimating many of us when you proclaim that we don't understand the other side.

We do understand the other side, but we just profusely disagree with it.

What more do we need to know about McCain? What more do we need to know about who runs his campaign? If we find out tomorrow that all of his campaign staffers plant lilies and teach mentally disabled kids on the weekends, would that change any of their policies? Of course not.

I don't want you to misunderstand. I have no problem with calling out politicians. On any side. And I'm not accusing everyone here of being blind. But there are some here, like polyhedron just demonstrated, who will just lump all conservatives together, and say they're all morons every time a new poll comes out. That's what I think is the problem.

playing the victim card.

Do us a favor and stop going in circles on this issue. You haven't reached ignore-list status yet, and I'd like to keep it that way...

If there's something you want me to address, say it specifically instead of accusing me.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

more wildlife for the humans to use

This is the problem.

For far too long, humanity has used nature. Not lived with it, not respected it. It's *used* nature. There's been a terrible, antagonistic, exploitive relationship between humanity and the earth for hundreds of years now and that has to change.

People don't get there's a balance with nature. And that if that balance gets shifted by humans, nature will push back harder.

I mean, look at what we're seeing.

Wolf hunts in Alaska? Because wolves are encroaching upon our territory? Does nobody ever entertain the notion that maybe we're the ones encroaching upon their territory? Wolves venture into towns sometimes, okay. But why are they venturing into towns? It's because most of the time, those towns were established within the wolf's territory. So what do we expect, honestly? That they'd just back up further and further into the wilderness?

What about hitting a deer with our cars? Do we blame the deer for it? Or should we ever acknowledge the fact that this land was the deer's territory originally?

We have hurricanes ravaging coastal towns, yet nobody seems to be asking why coastal towns are so at risk, because the conversation always seems to revolve around "oh my god help us help us the danger the carnage." Most coastal towns were established as trading ports because sea-based transport was infinitely easier and faster than land-based. That's fair. But why do people seem so oblivious to the relationship/dynamic between their civilization and the nature around them?

I see that obliviousness time and time again. And it's not working for us as a species. Things have gotten so bad and so politicized that you can't even speak out about this without being pegged as some weird wacko tree-hugging nature-lover. Now, to be fair, there are absolutely wacko tree-huggers out there who try to destroy civilization.

But there are also a lot of advocates fighting for the balance between humanity and nature. And we desperately need those advocates. We desperately need the balance restored.

If we don't restore that balance, humanity itself will die out much sooner than we expect, because nature will win in the end.

I'm just trying to get the point across...humanity has got to STOP using nature.

 

[Xeke]

Do you really think Romney would be getting as much coverage as Palin's gotten?

Absolutely not. It's an attention grabber pick. It's going to stick with people who don't pay attention to shit.

This is the problem.

For far too long, humanity has used nature. Not lived with it, not respected it. It's *used* nature. There's been a terrible, antagonistic, exploitive relationship between humanity and the earth for hundreds of years now and that has to change.

People don't get there's a balance with nature. And that if that balance gets shifted by humans, nature will push back harder.

I mean, look at what we're seeing.

Wolf hunts in Alaska? Because wolves are encroaching upon our territory? Does nobody ever entertain the notion that maybe we're the ones encroaching upon their territory? Wolves venture into towns sometimes, okay. But why are they venturing into towns? It's because most of the time, those towns were established within the wolf's territory. So what do we expect, honestly? That they'd just back up further and further into the wilderness?

What about hitting a deer with our cars? Do we blame the deer for it? Or should we ever acknowledge the fact that this land was the deer's territory originally?

We have hurricanes ravaging coastal towns, yet nobody seems to be asking why coastal towns are so at risk, because the conversation always seems to revolve around "oh my god help us help us the danger the carnage." Most coastal towns were established as trading ports because sea-based transport was infinitely easier and faster than land-based. That's fair. But why do people seem so oblivious to the relationship/dynamic between their civilization and the nature around them?

I see that obliviousness time and time again. And it's not working for us as a species. Things have gotten so bad and so politicized that you can't even speak out about this without being pegged as some weird wacko tree-hugging nature-lover. Now, to be fair, there are absolutely wacko tree-huggers out there who try to destroy civilization.

But there are also a lot of advocates fighting for the balance between humanity and nature. And we desperately need those advocates. We desperately need the balance restored.

If we don't restore that balance, humanity itself will die out much sooner than we expect, because nature will win in the end.

I'm just trying to get the point across...humanity has got to STOP using nature.

Dude. Nature will be fine. This planet has been through far worse than human CO2 emissions. The Earth is gonna be around for a long time with or without us and there will be ecosystems with or without us.

 

[Door2Dawn]

REAL change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3F18zVblJ8&feature=user

 

[eznark]

CNN just said that Palin's husband and a dozen aids are getting subpoenaed. Is that old? I haven't been following the thread.

That is why Bush/Cheney sent the hurricane to Texas. COVERUP!!

 

[Guileless]

He voted for the war based on the lies presented to him by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of Bush's cronies. He believed his President as did many of us. We now know that they deliberately lied.

From April 9, 2007:

MR. RUSSERT: I want to go back to 2002, because it’s important as to what people were saying then and what the American people were hearing. Here’s Joe Biden about Saddam Hussein: “He’s a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security.”

“We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.”

“He must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.” You were emphatic about that.

SEN. BIDEN: That’s right, and I was correct about that... And I pointed out to you that they had not developed that capacity at all. But he did have these stockpiles everywhere.

MR. RUSSERT: Where are (the WMD?)

SEN. BIDEN: Well, the point is, it turned out they didn’t, but everyone in the world thought he had them.

The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued—they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued. They looked at them and catalogued. What he did with them, who knows? The real mystery is, if he, if he didn’t have any of them left, why didn’t he say so? Well, a lot of people say if he had said that, he would’ve, you know, emboldened Iran and so on and so forth.


http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/08/joe-biden-speaks-out-on-saddams.html

 

[distantmantra]

CNN just said that Palin's husband and a dozen aids are getting subpoenaed. Is that old? I haven't been following the thread.

Concerning Troopergate? Old, but nice to hear that more media outlets are actually talking about it.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

You'd be correct. But the problem is that you'll never see that acknowledged in politics because it devalues the impact of American troops(seemingly at least) and it forces people to realize that *WE* are actually paying people not to attack us.

Article states that placing Petraeus in charge had more effect than the troop surge itself.

 

[JayDubya]

"lethal force" is a pleasant little legal myth.

Not sure where you're going with that. I'm simply accurately citing that we're discussing the initiation of sufficient violence, and more particularly, violence of such magnitude that it is lethal.

The act of initiating lethal force against another human being should require justification.

Aggressive homicide should not be legally permissible.

 

[The Lamonster]

If there's something you want me to address, say it specifically instead of accusing me.

hmm okay.

Who said I like McCain? You're assuming things again.

Out of our remaning choices, who do you want to be our next president?

 

[reilo]

I don't want you to misunderstand. I have no problem with calling out politicians. On any side. And I'm not accusing everyone here of being blind. But there are some here, like polyhedron just demonstrated, who will just lump all conservatives together, and say they're all morons every time a new poll comes out. That's what I think is the problem.

Have conservatives shown to act any other way though? You did watch the RNCC, right?

"DRILL BABY DRILL!"

What have GOPers done to shed the stereotype and the image that they have built up over the past eight years? What rationale have they given us to make us think, "well, you know, after these last eight years, you really do deserve another chance!" What has the Palin pick done other than reinforce everything that the GOP has been about all of this time? Phil Gramm, Charlie Black, and every other lobbyist running McCain's campaign: what have they done to make us believe that they are not your atypical lobbyist?

It's the battered wife syndrome. Except the left is fighting back and we are fighting fiercely.

 

[harSon]

CNN just said that Palin's husband and a dozen aids are getting subpoenaed. Is that old? I haven't been following the thread.

I sure as hell hope so

 

[Gaborn]

Absolutely not. It's an attention grabber pick. It's going to stick with people who don't pay attention to shit.

Which is why I think it was a smart pick. Election coverage is often not as much about issues as politicos would like, it's about style, it's about buzz, it's about sex appeal, it's about appealing to people on an emotional level, forming that connection. That's something that Reagan was GREAT at in his speeches, it's something that Clinton was an absolute MASTER of, and it's something that Obama showed he was just as good at as either of them. But now Palin's got the buzz and that's part of why McCain has the lead today. Tomorrow? Who knows, but right now it puts Obama on the defensive, which is why I think Biden was not the best possible pick.

 

[TDG]

Posted?

How democrats would respond to McCain's attacks if they were republicans.

:lol

 

[eznark]

This is the problem.

For far too long, humanity has used nature. Not lived with it, not respected it. It's *used* nature. There's been a terrible, antagonistic, exploitive relationship between humanity and the earth for hundreds of years now and that has to change.

People don't get there's a balance with nature. And that if that balance gets shifted by humans, nature will push back harder.

I mean, look at what we're seeing.

Wolf hunts in Alaska? Because wolves are encroaching upon our territory? Does nobody ever entertain the notion that maybe we're the ones encroaching upon their territory? Wolves venture into towns sometimes, okay. But why are they venturing into towns? It's because most of the time, those towns were established within the wolf's territory. So what do we expect, honestly? That they'd just back up further and further into the wilderness?

What about hitting a deer with our cars? Do we blame the deer for it? Or should we ever acknowledge the fact that this land was the deer's territory originally?

We have hurricanes ravaging coastal towns, yet nobody seems to be asking why coastal towns are so at risk, because the conversation always seems to revolve around "oh my god help us help us the danger the carnage." Most coastal towns were established as trading ports because sea-based transport was infinitely easier and faster than land-based. That's fair. But why do people seem so oblivious to the relationship/dynamic between their civilization and the nature around them?

I see that obliviousness time and time again. And it's not working for us as a species. Things have gotten so bad and so politicized that you can't even speak out about this without being pegged as some weird wacko tree-hugging nature-lover. Now, to be fair, there are absolutely wacko tree-huggers out there who try to destroy civilization.

But there are also a lot of advocates fighting for the balance between humanity and nature. And we desperately need those advocates. We desperately need the balance restored.

If we don't restore that balance, humanity itself will die out much sooner than we expect, because nature will win in the end.

I'm just trying to get the point across...humanity has got to STOP using nature.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/09/earth_first_eco.html

yeah you are

 

[Chris R]

So for the lulz and the gaf, should I go to the Palin rally/whatever on Saturday morning? I'd probably have to wake up really early since half the town is liable to turn out :lol

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Posted?

How democrats would respond to McCain's attacks if they were republicans.

:lol

Oh god, the I WONDER WHY completely caught me off guard.:lol :lol :lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

I don't disagree with you, and I have noticed you as one of the more level-headed liberals on here, and I appreciate that. My point is not that I'm a persecuted minority, though it's hard to not be defensive on GAF when most people disagree with you. My point is that not even trying to understand the other side is dumb. And it happens way too often here.

There are lots of rhetorical techniques employed from both sides that lower the level of discourse here. But it's understandable or at least unavoidable is what I've come to believe in an election year. Whenever a group of people of similar belief are concentrated there is a lower tolerance for dissent and the bar is lowered for making substantive points. I'll certain agree there.


Which means you either have to raise your arguing game or take sabbaticals from the process from time to time. There are some dissenters here like APF, Guiless, etc that I respect. I don't agree with them most of the time but I respect their arguments for the most part. Then there are also the minus_273's of the world that are just textbook talking points. You have the same thing on the left here. There are just a lot lot more people on the left here so you get more in each category.

 

[Eric P]

I'm guessing you're a Mephiskapheles fan, so I'm giving you a pass.

;D

i'm sorry as a fellow mephiskapheles fan, that's no excuse

 

[Frank the Great]

Posted?

How democrats would respond to McCain's attacks if they were republicans.

:lol

:lol :lol

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

So for the lulz and the gaf, should I go to the Palin rally/whatever on Saturday morning? I'd probably have to wake up really early since half the town is liable to turn out :lol

Please try to get on TV saying you're an Obama supporter just there to see the trainwreck.

 

[Diablos]

No, not really. Seeing Washington being viewed as a "swing" state today really surprised me. Western Washington has more people than Eastern Washington, and we're more in favor of Obama.

Yeah, that's why earlier in this thread I posted an article basically suggesting that Washington is a swing state, and laughed at it. I just cannot see the state going red...

I looked up Christine Gregoire, btw... she won by 133 votes! :lol That's unreal!

 

[eznark]

Oh god, the I WONDER WHY completely caught me off guard.:lol :lol :lol

hilarious ending