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[Gaborn]

No. That's why I hope if Obama gets elected, he repeals it. I wouldn't hold my breath though. No candidate is perfect.

That doesn't mean Obama is wrong on every constitutional issue like JayDub likes to proclaim.

Thank you for your honesty and directness.

 

[AniHawk]

Where he lied is as important as what he lied about, I think... but that's not really the point. My point was you can't attack every person who votes for a candidate. If McCain committed murder, that wouldn't justify executing everyone who votes for him.

When someone lies that much in a single week, I have to question their integrity. To me, I see John McCain has long since abandoned his in the quest for the presidency. And I can't understand why more people don't see this.

Again, that was just in the last week. We have a little more than 50 days to go.

 

[Hitokage]

Ok, do any of you actually know what FISA is? It's meant to provide court oversight in security sensitive cases. The issue about Obama's support for it was the provision in the renewal act that gave immunity to those who BROKE the law.

 

[Branduil]

Then I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "increase government involvement in our lives." Do you mean Obama's taxcuts for 95% of the American population? Is there some other restrictive law you know about that Obama is planning to pass? Is Obama planning to spend 20 Billion a month on military occupations that forces us to cough up more money?

I'm referring to the Democratic platform in general, which promotes more spending on social welfare.

 

[SnakeXs]

Choppers, wolves, and "aggravated homicide" in white suits.

Yeah, we need an actual news story right about now.

 

[Big-E]

I never understood the downright divinity the constitution possesses for some people. I am not American, but to prop up a document that was written hundreds of years ago and to state that it is infallible and can not be outright changed seems quite ludicrous to me.

 

[JayDubya]

According to JayDub, there is no such thing as interpreting the Constitution. There is only reading.

The Supreme Court should not engage in projecting its political values as law.

A significant difference between my values and those of the liberal progressive is that I do not want the Supreme Court acting unilaterally without Constitutional support to promote said values.

To wit: I do not want the Supreme Court pushing laissez faire capitalism, as it did in the Lochner Era, despite the fact that I agree wholeheartedly with laissez faire capitalism.

I also do not want the Supreme Court to ban abortion, though abortion is a social evil at least on par with slavery, and it should be banned, as slavery was, but justly, with an amendment (as slavery was).

The Supreme Court needs to be reigned in with Textualists / Originalists, stare decisis be damned. The matter belongs to the states, as per the 10th Amendment. The Roe decision was, flat out, an abuse of the Supreme Court's authority.

 

[Hitokage]

Monthly? Show some goddamned empathy.

Hey, since it's government's job to protect each and every embryo, then they can't let women run off and keep such matters private. Those who don't comply should be considered accessory to murder and jailed.

 

[Lemonz]

Obama spokesperson Hari Sevugan:

Today on "The View," John McCain defended his campaign's latest ad campaign, which has been debunked repeatedly as both false and sleazy. In running the sleaziest campaign since South Carolina in 2000 and standing by completely debunked lies on national television, it's clear that John McCain would rather lose his integrity than lose an election.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Wait...... Are you serious? :lol

I see a lot of disdain directed at specific people: McCain for his policies and tactics, Palin for, well, her entire record. And when GAFers come in and regurgitate GOP talking points, they get shot down for it.

But sweeping hate at conservatives? I'm not seeing it. In my rather terse exchanges with Branduil about abortion, for example, I said I can understand and respect the view of the other side. I just disagree with it. Likewise, I disagree with most conservatives on the issues. But that doesn't make them bad people.

I do think a lot of Americans are dumb as a post. But that cuts accross party lines.

 

[Branduil]

And our country is a much safer place because of it.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

[Dolphin]

I'm referring to the Democratic platform in general, which promotes more spending on social welfare.

So mildly increased spending on social welfare and less taxes for you is more governmentally invasive than more taxes for you and substantially increased military spending on questionable regimes?

 

[soul creator]

McCain made the comments during a feisty grilling on ABC's "The View,"

lol @ "a feisty grilling"

that sounds tasty

 

[SnakeXs]

Obama spokesperson Hari Sevugan:

So... To John McCain:

War > Election > Integrity?

:lol

 

[AniHawk]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Please don't tell me you ever supported Bush.

 

[thekad]

Hey, since it's government's job to protect each and every embryo, then they can't let women run off and keep such matters private.

Oh, no. I was taking the even more extreme position. Hourly checks. Or better yet:

 

[Gaborn]

Ok, do any of you know what FISA is? It's meant to provide court oversight in security sensitive cases. The issue about Obama's support for it was the provision in the renewal act that gave immunity to those who BROKE the law.

It was also about legitimizing warrantless wiretapping and informing suspects about it after a certain period of time, all things Obama had no problem with whatsoever. His only concern was with immunity to the Telecomms... but of course he voted for it anyway.

 

[Branduil]

I never understood the downright divinity the constitution possesses for some people. I am not American, but to prop up a document that was written hundreds of years ago and to state that it is infallible and can not be outright changed seems quite ludicrous to me.

The constitution is not infallible. However, there is a process for changing it, and many of us do not like to see that process circumvented for expedience, even if it's for something we agree with.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama spokesperson Hari Sevugan:

I like where this is going.

 

[TDG]

Welcome to what world? Nobody is demonizing Obama the way you do McCain and his supporters.

Oh please, spare me the drama. "Liberal" practically became a cuss word it was demonized for so long by right-wingers. People are always complaining about how Obama supporters think he's the messiah, when I've never heard a single Obama supporter say anything of the sort.

Politics are fierce. It's all about winning and losing and having a strong opinion. Everyone believes that their opinion is the only correct one, so of course they believe that people who don't vote the same way as them are stupid. Both sides do it, so please spare me the black-and-white bullshit.

 

[reilo]

Please don't tell me you ever supported Bush.

He says he is voting for McCain. And McCain's entire shtick is that we have to sacrifice our liberty for our safety.

 

[Hitokage]

It was also about legitimizing warrantless wiretapping and informing suspects about it after a certain period of time, all things Obama had no problem with whatsoever. His only concern was with immunity to the Telecomms... but of course he voted for it anyway.

That issue being those who didn't comply with FISA, not FISA itself.

 

[speculawyer]

A respect for human rights is a good reason to oppose the legality of aggressive homicide, actually.

A belief in human rights and equality is highly incongruent with the notion of a right to kill someone else on a whim.

Hmm . .. well, by your literal view of the constitution, it seems these unborn are not people. They need to be born to be citizens. And they can't be aliens if they have always existed in the country. Thus, they are not humans with any rights. Thus abortion is not homicide in the USA. QED. :lol

Amendment XIV, Section 1, Clause 1:
“ All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

 

[Evlar]

I never understood the downright divinity the constitution possesses for some people. I am not American, but to prop up a document that was written hundreds of years ago and to state that it is infallible and can not be outright changed seems quite ludicrous to me.

It's the baseline for political discourse in this country for a lot of people. If the Constitution can't be agreed on then... what holds the country together? Insisting that the Constitution is deeply flawed (and it is) would lead to questioning the validity of all our institutions, which we are taught (incorrectly) derive all their legitimacy from that document.

 

[JayDubya]

I jerked off today. I potentially killed millions of mini-mes.

Hey, Dubya, when you had sex and used a condom, were you committing murder? What about masturbation? Is that murder, too?

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me in an argument, a decade or more ago.

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me on GAF, over a year ago.

This was dumb the most recent time I heard it on GAF, less than a month ago.

Guess what? It's still pretty dumb.

A sperm cell isn't even diploid, and it's just a part of you. By itself, it's no more a unique human organism than the skin cells you slough off in the shower.

 

[alr1ght]

Roger Ebert comes down from the sky, gives Palin the THUMBS DOWN

Absolutely true. Obama could use that. "Sarah Palin, The American Idol Candidate."

 

[thekad]

Please don't tell me you ever supported Bush.

Those who would give up essential Deregulation, to purchase a little temporary Liberty, deserve neither Deregulation nor Liberty.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Please don't tell me you ever supported Bush.

Why would he have voted for Bush?

 

[Dolphin]

The Supreme Court should not engage in projecting its political values as law.

A significant difference between my values and those of the liberal progressive is that I do not want the Supreme Court acting unilaterally without Constitutional support to promote said values.

To wit: I do not want the Supreme Court pushing laissez faire capitalism, as it did in the Lochner Era, despite the fact that I agree wholeheartedly with laissez faire capitalism.

I also do not want the Supreme Court to ban abortion, though abortion is a social evil at least on par with slavery, and it should be banned, as slavery was, but justly, with an amendment (as slavery was).

The Supreme Court needs to be reigned in with Textualists / Originalists, stare decisis be damned.

So considering seven of the nine Supreme Court justices were appointed by republican regimes, wouldn't it be fair to posit that the majority of the current problems with the Supreme Court are due to an unbalance of opinion? Would a more balanced court help to weed out "legislating from the bench?"

 

[Branduil]

So mildly increased spending on social welfare and less taxes for you is more governmentally invasive than more taxes for you and substantially increased military spending on questionable regimes?

Where is "more taxes" coming from? I think both candidates support tax cuts, though neither explains where they're going to summon the magical pile of money for everything they want to do.

Please don't tell me you ever supported Bush.

Please don't tell me you ever supported abortion.

 

[vangace]

Damn, sounds like McCain got smacked down on "The View" . . . and the AP piled on. :lol


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912...republicans;_ylt=ArrMkCc6_CnR8RGbkv8t_Pus0NUE

I don't think that is gonna help him with women.

Question is why isn't Obama calling him out on all these flip flops and lies much forcefully. They should have released 10 000 ads on these issues by now. I love Obama, but like Kerry he is being a pussy. Fight the fuck back! I mean there is so much dirt on Mccain but Obama aint doing shit.

 

[Gaborn]

That issue being those who didn't comply with FISA, not FISA itself.

The bill in question (which Obama supported) both gave immunity to the telecomms and legitimized provisions such as the warrantless wiretapping. In fact, it increased warrantless wiretapping from continuing for 48 hours to 7 days.

(that provision is section 108 if you're interested)

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama spokesperson Hari Sevugan:

The full quote is even better.

Today on "The View," John McCain defended his campaign's latest ad campaign, which has been debunked repeatedly as both false and sleazy. In running the sleaziest campaign since South Carolina in 2000 and standing by completely debunked lies on national television, it's clear that John McCain would rather lose his integrity than lose an election.

Guess who was on the recieving end of that one? :lol

Question is why isn't Obama calling him out on all these flip flops and lies much forcefully. They should have released 10 000 ads on these issues. I love Obama, but like Kerry he is being a pussy. Fight the fuck back! I mean there is so much dirt on Mccain but Obama aint doing shit.

Ahem.

 

[SnakeXs]

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me in an argument, a decade or more ago.

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me on GAF, over a year ago.

This was dumb the most recent time I heard it on GAF, less than a month ago.

Guess what? It's still pretty dumb.

A sperm cell isn't even diploid, and it's just a part of you. By itself, it's no more a unique human organism than the skin cells you slough off in the shower.

And we can now place the magical position of an imaginary moment where something changes to be between point x, and point y, and agree that people disagree on it.

And drop this abortion shit. Nobody's mind is changing. Jesus.

 

[Captain Pants]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

What are your thoughts on the Patriot Act?

 

[vitaflo]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

What? This makes no sense with regards to what I'm talking about.

 

[reilo]

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me in an argument, a decade or more ago.

This was dumb the first time someone used it on me on GAF, over a year ago.

This was dumb the most recent time I heard it on GAF, less than a month ago.

Guess what? It's still pretty dumb.

A sperm cell isn't even diploid, and it's just a part of you. By itself, it's no more a unique human organism than the skin cells you slough off in the shower.

You proclaiming that abortions are a social evil is quite a dumb statement to make, but I digress.

You can also argue that an embryo is part of the mother. A cell of her.

I think we are just going to go in circles around this.

 

[Byakuya769]

Amen. Less government bureaucracy, more corporate bureaucracy!

To be fair, McCain would rather encourage the private sector through gov't aid to do the job of the government.. wait what are we talking about?

 

[Hellsing321]

Craig Ferguson's monologue is pretty awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRVQ4xwwmQ&feature=dir

That was great. The media should really be ashamed of themselves this election cycle.

 

[laserbeam]

You proclaiming that abortions are a social evil is quite a dumb statement to make, but I digress.

You can also argue that an embryo is part of the mother. A cell of her.

I think we are just going to go in circles around this.

21 days after conception independant heart beat, 40 days after conception independent brain waves. Thats hardly just a part of the mother.

 

[AniHawk]

What? This makes no sense with regards to what I'm talking about.

Yeah, but he's quoting Benjamin Franklin. So that's neat.

 

[Branduil]

What are your thoughts on the Patriot Act?

I don't like it.

What? This makes no sense with regards to what I'm talking about.

Okay, you're right, technically. Embryos can't choose to give up liberty. We choose that for them.

 

[JayDubya]

Hmm . .. well, by you literal view of the constitution, it seems these unborn are not people. They need to be born to be citizens. And they can't be aliens if they have always existed in the country. Thus, they are not humans with any rights. Thus abortion is not homicide in the USA. QED. :lol

Amendment XIV, Section 1, Clause 1:
“ All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

You bring me the anti-slavery amendment, and use it to decrease human liberty.

All persons that were born here or naturalized here are citizens. Citizens are not the only human beings that have rights that our government should respect.

Unless you think otherwise, and holding unlawful combatants is totally kosher, because subhumans with dark skin don't have habeas corpus rights, only citizens do.

Another reason why exclusive "legal personhood" is total bullshit.

 

[artredis1980]

so whats the issue.

None of the polling companies call cell phones which are more in use as primary phones than 4 years ago and more younger people never use landlines, they use cell phones only. Will the young crowd vote this time and offset the assumptions that polling numbers are making?

 

[Hitokage]

You proclaiming that abortions are a social evil is quite a dumb statement to make, but I digress.

You can also argue that an embryo is part of the mother. A cell of her.

I think we are just going to go in circles around this.

Don't try arguing that, the mother is irrelevant to JayDubya. It doesn't matter if she's hurt or killed. All that matters is the unborn baby. He is, after all, for the natural right of life.

Citizens are not the only human beings that have rights that our government should respect.

HEY. That's not reading you're doing there.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Okay, you're right, technically. Embryos can't choose to give up liberty. We choose that for them.

And it's well within our rights to do so.

(Okay, I'm really done now.)

 

[bob_arctor]

Speaking as the father of a beautiful daughter myself, the act of hiring a hit man in a white coat should not be considered a personal medical decision.

:lol I keep reading your posts in a Lieberman-smarm voiceover for extra hilarity. Keep it up.

 

[AniHawk]

so whats the issue.

None of the polling companies call cell phones which are more in use as primary phones than 4 years ago and more younger people never use landlines, they use cell phones only. Will the young crowd vote this time and offset the assumptions that polling numbers are making?

Some do, actually. I think Gallup does.

 

[Gruco]

I meant more like "Where do those numbers come from" not "Who's making those numbers up". They don't jive with the map in the post i quoted or on that site.

They don't jive because they're two different sources with differing methodologies.

Map = electoral vote. Algorithm is to take an average of the three most recent polls, provided they are taken within a week of each other.

Tables = 538. Algorithm controls for pollster accuracy, weighted average of all polls based on timing, and a demographic regression. The odds of winning each state are then taken based on the margin, and a 10,000 trial simulation is run to come up with win scenarios.

 

[reilo]

Unless you think otherwise, and holding unlawful combatants is totally kosher, because subhumans with dark skin don't have habeas corpus rights, only citizens do.

Is anyone going to disagree with you on that point [Gitmo and indefinite detention should be illegal], especially liberals?