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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
AndyIsTheMoney said:
oh. so the people who own the business pay the taxes, then pay again when they pay themselves through their income. We tax the business as a separate entity, then tax the people after we tax the business.

and by taxing the business, who are we really taxing? we are taxing the owners and shareholders are we not? you know, they people who also pay a majority of the income taxes
Click to expand...


um. a lot of the money that a business makes, does not go to shareholders and the owners. it goes back into the company, the company itself IS a separate entity.
 
C

Chrono

Banned
I haven't caught up with this thread yet but I'd like to say fuck you to that if you don't vote you're a moron comedian posted earlier.

What he doesn't understand, or doesn't want to understand, is that the reason Obama puts out his family in the media is because some americans think he's going to blow up the white house when he gets in. That comedian calls him a hypocrite for saying family is off limits with respect to palin but using his children. He's not using his children, he's showing the millions of racist imbeciles in the US that he's not too different from them.

And if he's so pissed off about the media ignoring the issues, why not bring them up in his comedy show? It'd make great materials - McCain lying about his record, lying about Obama's, lying about Palin's, lying about limiting lobbyist influence, lying about running an honest campaign, and considering his record/intellect/judgment/character/qualifications lying about changing anything in washington because all he is is just another power hungry politicians that decided to say what people want to here at elections time.

But no, that doesn't get an angry monologue, no need to tell the media to fact check and ask real questions, talking about pigs and lipstick instead of real issues is the only problem in the LIBRUL MEDIA.
 
S

Slippers

Member
Some of the candidates have been charted below. Just remember that if politicalcompass.org talk about far-right they're talking about economic stuff, like no regulations on corporations, but when regular people talk about far-right they are refering to the top of the chart (Authoritarian). Also, they are going to keep the chart updated and I would like to nominate it for inclusion in future PoliGAF OPs.

http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008 said:
US Presidential Election 2008

This chart was constructed on the basis of the speeches, public statements and , crucially, the voting records of each of the candidates. During the election campaign, we'll be tweaking their positions as, inevitably, some of them change. We'll also be adding other charts as the campaign continues.

When examining the chart it's important to note that although most of the candidates seem quite different, in substance they occupy a relatively restricted area within the universal political spectrum. Democracies with a system of proportional representation give expression to a wider range of political views. While Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader are depicted on the extreme left in an American context, they would simply be mainstream social democrats within the wider political landscape of Europe. Similarly, Obama is popularly perceived as a leftist in the United States while elsewhere in the west his record is that of a moderate conservative. For example, in the case of the death penalty he is not an uncompromising abolitionist, while mainstream conservatives in all other western democracies are deeply opposed to capital punishment. The Democratic party's presidential candidate also reneged on his commitment to oppose the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He sided with the ultra conservative bloc in the Supreme Court against the Washington DC handgun ban and for capital punishment in child rape cases. He supports President Bush's faith-based initiatives and is reported in Fortune to have said that NAFTA isn't so bad. Despite all this, some angry emailers tell us that Obama is a dangerous socialist who belongs on the extreme left of our chart. In an apparently close race, genuine leftists McKinney and Nader may attract sufficient votes from Obama to deliver McCain to the Oval Office.

Sarah Palin is popularly described by her detractors as an extreme right winger. In reality, she has some protectionist leanings. Her comparatively extreme positions are on the social rather than the economic scale. While her pro-gun, pro-Iraq invasion, anti-gay and anti- abortion positions are applauded in some quarters, Joe Six-pack may not be quite so enamoured with what Palin's denominational website, the General Council of the Assemblies of God, has to say:
We urge all believers to avoid the Satanic tool of alcohol which destroys lives, damns souls, and blights society.

One of Palin's evangelical supporters reminded us that Obama's background was as a mere community organiser. Well yes, but so was Jesus, while Pontius Pilate was a governor.


The Libertarians' choice of diehard conservative Bob Barr is particularly odd. Their party is now led by an anti-choice enthusiast for the death penalty who initially supported the Patriot Act, though later regretted it. He is also pro teacher-led prayers. While Libertarians tend to place more importance on economic matters, Barr has nevertheless not displayed unbridled enthusiasm for free trade, although he ticks most of the right boxes on matters of taxation and public spending.

It is important to recognise that The Political Compass™ is a continuum rather than consisting of hard and fast quadrants. For example, Ron Paul on the social scale is actually closer to Dennis Kucinich than to many figures within his own party. But on the economic scale, they are, of course, far apart.

Perhaps the most breath-taking u-turn in the primaries so far belongs to Mike Gravel, a left-leaning Democrat and undoubted civil libertarian who has now put his lot in with the Libertarian Party. On the social scale this doesn't represent much of a leap, but economically the mercurial Mr.Gravel, a long-standing champion of universal health care and a redistributive economy, has vaulted from social democracy to a radical neo-liberal platform well to the right of most Republicans.


uscandidates2008.png



For those who are interested, we include here our earlier chart showing most of the candidates from the Primaries. Observant readers will notice shifts in the positions of Biden, Obama and McCain.


usprimaries_2008.png
Click to expand...

2004's chart:

http://politicalcompass.org/uselection said:
USelection2004.gif
Click to expand...
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
it's mainly the electoral college projections on fivethirtyeight that i'm wigging out over. imo he's doing fine in the rasmussen and gallup polls at this stage in the game.
 
C

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
maximum360 said:
Where were these senior advisers when we lost the last two elections? Monday morning political quarterbacks can shove it. Sometimes the democratic leaders are the biggest set of whiners.
Click to expand...

Isn't it possible that there is a middle ground though? That there might be some genuine strategic improvments that Obama could be making? Why does the mentality have to be so extreme? That either Obama is doing everything wrong or that he is doing everything right?
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
maximum360 said:
Where were these senior advisers when we lost the last two elections? Monday morning political quarterbacks can shove it. Sometimes the democratic leaders are the biggest set of whiners.
Click to expand...

That's valid for Kerry, how was Gore to know the supreme court would rob him? I still agree with the link Obama is being retarded by taking it easier on opponent whose doing everything to keep him from winning. In two weeks if Obama can't find his political fortitude and take it to McCain/Palin in every concieveable way I can easily see this going to Republicans in a gimmie election.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
The new 538 poll was mocking Zogby Interactive, right?
Click to expand...
Yup.

Great news about the fundraiding - that's actually ahead of Obama's targets and doesn't include the $10m in 24 hours from the GOP convention in September. And the new lobbyist ad is brutal.

The new Rasmussen party ID weightings don't make any sense.
 
H

Huzah

Member
maximum360 said:
Where were these senior advisers when we lost the last two elections? Monday morning political quarterbacks can shove it. Sometimes the democratic leaders are the biggest set of whiners.
Click to expand...

2000 was close enough to be a toss up.

The dem wooped the gop in 2006 congress elections so the party leaders must know something.

Worst presidential rating of a sitting president yet his incumbent party is up in the polls? This is Obama's election to lose.
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
It was a fucking convention bounce..

funny how some of you people are forgetting this.

Obama was up in the polls during the week of his convention and and half of the republicans convention. Not to mention 310 EV at 538.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Huzah said:
2000 was close enough to be a toss up.

The dem wooped the gop in 2006 congress elections so the party leaders must know something.

Worst presidential rating of a sitting president yet his incumbent party is up in the polls? This was Obama's election to lose.
Click to expand...
:lol :lol
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
LCGeek said:
That's valid for Kerry, how was Gore to know the supreme court would rob him? I still agree with the link Obama is being retarded by taking it easier on opponent whose doing everything to keep him from winning. In two weeks if Obama can't find his political fortitude and take it to McCain/Palin in every concieveable way I can easily see this going to Republicans in a gimmie election.
Click to expand...


So are you telling us that you've seen no change in the way the Obama campaign is handling McCain within the last 3 days?
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Huzah said:
2000 was close enough to be a toss up.

The dem wooped the gop in 2006 congress elections so the party leaders must know something.

Worst presidential rating of a sitting president yet his incumbent party is up in the polls? This was Obama's election to lose.
Click to expand...


OBAMA IS A BLACK MAN! Damn Huzah there's some people not voting for this man because they honestly think he is a muslim. No other white man had/has to go through this bullshit.

A black man was never going to swept the country and win like Reagan did. Again let me remind you that he is a black man.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Huzah said:
Well since he is losing, he has to win it now doesn't he :p, that's what being behind means.
Click to expand...

This is an absurd statement. I wasn't aware that any votes had been cast yet.

And that still doesn't explain your "was" - forgiven if english isn't your native language.
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
Door2Dawn said:
It was a fucking convention bounce..

funny how some of you people are forgetting this.
Click to expand...

at this point i get the feeling its more than that. considering that the incumbent pres. is republican and the worst modern president, any "bounce" should be slight imo. it just seems like people are forgetting everything and blowing their load over soccor mom.

the election has now become yesterday's american phenomenon vs. today's phenomenon. either it is just a bounce, or everything's flipped and now, strange as it is, the democrats are the ones making the longshot.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why did Rasumeen polling company change their polling ID numbers to make the republican numbers better and the democrats worst? Know everytime we see their numbers the republicans will have a built in +1 just because they want to bullshit the numbers.

Are they trying to rig the election?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Tyrone Slothrop said:
at this point i get the feeling its more than that. considering that the incumbent pres. is republican and the worst modern president, any "bounce" should be slight imo. it just seems like people are forgetting everything and blowing their load over soccor mom.

the election has now become yesterday's american phenomenon vs. today's phenomenon. either it is just a bounce, or everything's flipped and now, strage as it is, the democrates are the ones making the longshot.
Click to expand...
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/media-has-been-thrown-off-its-game.html

mckmas8808 said:
Why did Rasumeen polling company change their polling ID numbers to make the republican numbers better and the democrats worst?

Are they trying to rig the election?
Click to expand...
They can't rig the election, just their polls. :lol

Rasmussen has always used a rolling adjustment in their weightings. This one looks really strange though, and pretty much guarantees McCain will stay ahead of Obama in their poll for the rest of the election.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
mckmas8808 said:
So are you telling us that you've seen no change in the way the Obama campaign is handling McCain within the last 3 days?
Click to expand...

When did I say that there was no change? Sure it's a change but it's nothing like the impact of the fear mongering ads McCain/Palin and their ilk are putting out.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
LCGeek said:
When did I say that there was no change? Sure it's a change but it's nothing like the impact of the fear mongering ads McCain/Palin and their ilk are putting out.
Click to expand...


Dude! He released the 527s this week. A couple days later we seen 2 HARD hitting ads that are targeted at McCain.

Have you seen those ads?
 
H

Huzah

Member
gkrykewy said:
This is an absurd statement. I wasn't aware that any votes had been cast yet.

And that still doesn't explain your "was" - forgiven if english isn't your native language.
Click to expand...

I'll edit it to is, since it's obvious the election votes hasn't been cast yet.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
mckmas8808 said:
Dude! He released the 527s this week. A couple days later we seen 2 HARD hitting ads that are targeted at McCain.

Have you seen those ads?
Click to expand...

I've seen one, I still think they can hit McCain much harder. Feel free to link me to always need a good laugh on this subject.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:
They can't rig the election, just their polls. :lol

Rasmussen has always used a rolling adjustment in their weightings. This one looks really strange though, and pretty much guarantees McCain will stay ahead of Obama in their poll for the rest of the election.
Click to expand...


Well when I said election I meant it in the since that some people will get depressed if Obama isn't catching up in the polls and not vote (don't ask me why people do that, me and you know that's stupid).

They've basically created an automatic +1 for McCain for no reason at all. Like today Obama should be down by 2% points, instead of 3.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
LCGeek said:
I've seen one, I still think they can hit McCain much harder. Feel free to link me to always need a good laugh on this subject.
Click to expand...

They're just softening him up right now. Lobbyists --> Willing to do whatever it takes to win ---> Lying and Changing positions
 
C

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
Door2Dawn said:
It was a fucking convention bounce..

funny how some of you people are forgetting this.

Obama was up in the polls during the week of his convention and and half of the republicans convention. Not to mention 310 EV at 538.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, how do you know that this is 'just a convention bounce'? Whether it's just a bounce or not is something we will be able to assess a month from now. And, following your logic, if Obama was already strongly leading McCain before his convention, shouldn't he still be leading McCain given that he's had his convention now?
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Incognito said:
They're just softening him up right now. Lobbyists --> Willing to do whatever it takes to win ---> Lying and Changing positions
Click to expand...


The problem with some people here is that they want Obama to do exactly what McCain is doing. McCain doesn't even know what the hell he is doing.

This EXACT same thing was being said about Obama when he was running against Hillary. Hillary went nuclear and some people wanted Obama to do the same.

The O team has a plan and they do things one at a time and they stay in control. That $66 million dollars from last month will help.
 
N

numble

Member
capslock said:
Wait a minute, how do you know that this is 'just a convention bounce'? Whether it's just a bounce or not is something we will be able to assess a month from now. And, following your logic, if Obama was already strongly leading McCain before his convention, shouldn't he still be leading McCain given that he's had his convention now?
Click to expand...
This is what was predicted on August 15:

2764497795_36019bb1d1_o.png


This is the Gallup tracker:
080913DailyUpdateGraph1_iiiii.gif
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
capslock said:
Wait a minute, how do you know that this is 'just a convention bounce'? Whether it's just a bounce or not is something we will be able to assess a month from now. And, following your logic, if Obama was already strongly leading McCain before his convention, shouldn't he still be leading McCain given that he's had his convention now?
Click to expand...


No you aren't using logic. Obama in the Gallup poll was losing by 2 points before the DNC. His convention bounce took him to 8 points ahead.

Then on the next day after the DNC McCain showed the world his VP choice (which hit Obama's convention bounce a little).

Then McCain had his convention and received a bounce that we are now in. Capslock you just have to know that basically all conventions give that person a bounce.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Mandark said:
"If you tax corporations/rich people they'll just pass it down." I hear that a lot from conservatives.

What's the reasoning behind this? Assuming the tax is raised across the board and affects all competing corporations, and assuming the market actually works based on supply and demand (surely a conservative would stipulate to this?) then prices won't go up, at least not proportionally.

In a market the companies will have found the price point that brings in the most total revenue. Their costs are independent of the market demand.

Now if the costs were increased so they were taking a loss then they'd have to raise prices and either sell less volume or hope that everyone else also had to raise prices and the demand curve would shift.

But that won't happen because corporate taxes are levied on profits, not revenues, so they'll never put a profit-making corporation into the red. See?
Click to expand...

Hey now! Don't confuse him with facts!

Capital gains was taxed at 28% for awhile under the Clinton Administration. Then he agreed with Newt's party to drop it down to 20%. Obama is proposing at least a 25% tax on capital gains for the "sooper dooper rich".

Also, Obama has mentioned MANY times that he will cut taxes on small and start up businesses, but since we're talking about facts here, didn't Clinton cut taxes on 95% of small businesses, which helped expand the economy?

Seriously. Why is that with every new right wing Gaffer that enters this thread, they spew the bulshit talking points from the right? It's PATHETIC.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
syllogism said:
Obama raised $66m in August. This obviously does not include the "$10m" raised during republican convention. New ad: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisadministration_ad/

e: also, Rasmussen has now changed their weighting targets so expect Mccain to stay ahead for a while at the very least

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ighting_targets_38_7_democrat_33_6_republican
Click to expand...
:lol HE'S MISSING HIS FUNDRAISING TARGETSSSSS HE CAN'T RAISE MONEY DONORS ARE BAILINGGG
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Hey now! Don't confuse him with facts!

Capital gains was taxed at 28% for awhile under the Clinton Administration. Then he agreed with Newt's party to drop it down to 20%. Obama is proposing at least a 25% tax on capital gains for the "sooper dooper rich".

Also, Obama has mentioned MANY times that he will cut taxes on small and start up businesses, but since we're talking about facts here, didn't Clinton cut taxes on 95% of small businesses, which helped expand the economy?

Seriously. Why is that with every new right wing Gaffer that enters this thread, they spew the bulshit talking points from the right? It's PATHETIC.
Click to expand...


Just to let you know Obama lately has said that he will raise capital gains tax to 20% for people making over $250,000.
 
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