PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Beer Monkey
Member
JayDubya said:
Well, if they are supporting the expansion of executive powers (which doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense since they control the legislative branch far more than they control the white house, and expanding executive powers causes a de facto weakening of the house and senate), they do a far shittier job of bringing it about. The Supreme Court justices who want to turn the president into the King are all Republican appointees.
thefit said:
Which is why Bush is so scary, and why any President running on "making government 'cool' again" as Obama said during that 9/11 service forum absolutely rips at my libertarian soul. A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.
SouthernDragon
Member
Gaborn said:
Getting more people involved in their government and making informed decisions?
Good thing, yeah? If people weren't so apathetic, we'd probably see half of the Bush administration indicted.
Stoney Mason
Banned
FlightOfHeaven said:
I've come to realize Gaborn is scared of Obama not because he is incompetent. But because he fears he is too competent.
He seems to have less fear of incompetence hence less Mccain attacks...
Gaborn said:
Meaningless Libertarian talking points as neither of the candidates are libertarian. Bush and the Republicans centralize and wield their power that should make Libertarians throw up.
I'd choose the one who actually has a plan to put Imperial America back on course to ruling its empire, rather than one hell bent on turning it into the next Athens. you know the part when they fucked themselves and imploded.
polyh3dron
Banned
Holy fuck he wants to set up universal healthcare, something that damn near every other civilized country in the world has. He's not fucking Stalin.Gaborn said:
perfectchaos007
Member
I've been wondering...
Why haven't I seen pics of Obama's parents?
Why haven't I seen pics of Obama's parents?
Stoney Mason
Banned
perfectchaos007 said:
Because they are both dead.
Deku said:
See above. I'm not going to defend Bush, and would never defend him. He is arguably the worst president in the history of the country from an economic perspective, and it's not really arguable he's been the worst from a civil liberties perspective (ok, the Alien and Sedition acts under Adams were pretty bad too...)
As for the other things, again, Obama's too willing to give too many powers to government in my opinion. It does too much as it is and Obama's not exactly clamoring to cut back in problematic areas (has he called for the repeal of the PATRIOT Act like he should?)
Hito - Fortunately military powers are currently limited by constitutional constraints. It is currently illegal to use the military against the civillian population except under very limited emergency circumstances.
perfectchaos007
Member
Stoney Mason said:
Elvis is dead, but I still see lots of his photos.
kevm3 said:
I'm not voting for McCain/Palin. McCain/Palin are a more vocally warmongering continuation of Bush's failed interventionist foreign policy. Just about the only advantage to McCain over Obama is that McCain would deal with a Democratically controlled congress which would hopefully lead to more gridlock. Still though, I'm voting for Barr/Root.
Learn2read
Member
She was well featured in his bio clip at the convention.perfectchaos007 said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
perfectchaos007 said:
I assume you haven't been looking then because at the DNC convention they showed photos of his mom in video tributes alot. They always show his grandparents a lot also. Just curious but why does it matter anyway?
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Oh god what have you done.kevm3 said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
Huzah said:
That didn't stop our current president when he had either a Republican or a Democratic congress from rapidly expanding the powers of the executive branch along with increasing spending.
perfectchaos007 said:
Did you watch the DNC? There were many pics of them in the montages they had..
Here you go, though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7An5LPXjOa4
perfectchaos007
Member
No I didn't watch the DNC, nor did I watch the RNC. I watched Ron Pauls convention on C-SPAN though. Anyways I would have thought they would show his parents on the mainstream media.
kevm3 said:
I really think it could go either way. I see troubling signs with both. With McCain I fear his foreign policy more than his economic policy. With Obama I fear his economic policy and his attitude that government can essentially solve many of the problems in our society if we just do it right. I'm also not convinced that Obama is a non-interventionist. Obama correctly thinks that Iraq was an immoral war and the wrong place, wrong time to go in. Unfortunately I'm not convinced that he would absolutely not go to war against a different target. I don't think he'd do so as eagerly as McCain would but I still don't trust him entirely.
at the same time, I'll repeat that some of the worst of McCain's excesses would be beaten back by a Dem congress, and some of Obama's worst tendencies would be fed by a Congress eager to approve a newly elected Dem's policy. I also rather famously believe Obama's separate but equal* treatment of gays is more harmful to the marriage equality movement than McCain's denial of gay rights but you can search the thread for the rationale (or just let someone distort it for you). In the end I can't choose between them, they're both bad on issues I care about.
With that said at 3:30 I need to get some sleep.
devilhawk said:
He basically posits that Civil Unions will halt all progress towards gay marriage forever, and that the Republican policy of denying both is better in the long run. If it sounds really fucking retarded and backward, you have to hear with better ears.
Obama is more hawkish than I am but I'm out of the mainstream on this.
His pimping of aggressive diplomacy warms my heart, though. He seems to understand the importance of creating long-term multilateral frameworks for peace and stability and recognizes that other countries are operating based on their own perceived interests.
I'm less worried about the wars McCain would start (checked by a Democratic Congress and bogged down in two conflicts already) than I am about the ones he would make likely down the road.
His pimping of aggressive diplomacy warms my heart, though. He seems to understand the importance of creating long-term multilateral frameworks for peace and stability and recognizes that other countries are operating based on their own perceived interests.
I'm less worried about the wars McCain would start (checked by a Democratic Congress and bogged down in two conflicts already) than I am about the ones he would make likely down the road.
AndyIsTheMoran
Banned
OuterWorldVoice said:
Two of my sisters are. and coming from a poor background and mostly poor family, i know plenty about it. But Ive seen both sides, and im telling you all sides work just as hard in a majority of circumstances. its not easy like you think, in fact try starting a company and then come back and talk to me. Maybe big business arnt as good as an example, but at a smaller company like i work for, its unbelievable how much work the higher levels of the company put it. They hold nearly all of the responsibility and also the most risk. And nearly any CEO will tell you that if you plan on working for less than 60 hours a week and on weekends that it wont work out for you.
Talking about compensation versus effort is probably never going to be an area where we agree. IMO our compensation directly stems from the amount we contribute. Sure there are examples of overpaid/ underpaid people, but in the overall sense i wholeheartedly believe that.
government never will be the answer to my problems. I dont need them telling me where to send my future child to school, how to save for my retirement, where to buy my health care, and forcing me to pay for all these things. I believe in personal responsibility for our lives, not government direction. And any able minded person should realize that a tax on business is going to be directly transferred to the customers in terms of the products pricing. Of course business needs oversight to keep them in check, but they aren't the evil enemies who take advantage of working America. Business pays nearly all of the tax burden in this country, and provides nearly all the jobs. And its the only way government can sustain itself. So when i hear all this talk painting business as the bad guy and government as the answer it amazes me. I want less government, less spending, and fair oversight. unfortunately both parties are getting father away from this. but i do believe that the Democrat party is more of a tax and spend party then the Republican party is.
polyh3dron
Banned
Democrats = Tax & SpendAndyIsTheMoney said:
Republicans = Borrow Money From China, Tax & Spend us into debt
speculawyer
Member
Seriously. Those dicks spend far more on marketing and advertising than they do on drug development. But if you dare mention how expensive drugs are they'll whine endlessly about research & development costs.devilhawk said:
Perscription advertising is wasteful, causes unnecessary self-diagnosis by people. If I can't buy the drug myself don't advertise it to me.
AndyIsTheMoran
Banned
polyh3dron said:
democrats=increase taxes on companies which is in turned passed down to the consumer through pricing being the same as if they increased taxes on everyone, also causing further outsourcing and less development...and spend
republicans=Borrow Money From China, Tax & Spend us into debt
damned either way i guess
AndyIsTheMoran
Banned
Mandark said:
the wealthiest of this country carry its tax burden. Im not stating this as being right or wrong, but they do.
speculawyer said:
i think its the doctors fault for accepting basically bribes from these companies for pushing the drugs on people, not advertising.
AndyIsTheMoran
Banned
sorry about the trip post. please no ban, who else would there be to yell at
"If you tax corporations/rich people they'll just pass it down." I hear that a lot from conservatives.
What's the reasoning behind this? Assuming the tax is raised across the board and affects all competing corporations, and assuming the market actually works based on supply and demand (surely a conservative would stipulate to this?) then prices won't go up, at least not proportionally.
In a market the companies will have found the price point that brings in the most total revenue. Their costs are independent of the market demand.
Now if the costs were increased so they were taking a loss then they'd have to raise prices and either sell less volume or hope that everyone else also had to raise prices and the demand curve would shift.
But that won't happen because corporate taxes are levied on profits, not revenues, so they'll never put a profit-making corporation into the red. See?
What's the reasoning behind this? Assuming the tax is raised across the board and affects all competing corporations, and assuming the market actually works based on supply and demand (surely a conservative would stipulate to this?) then prices won't go up, at least not proportionally.
In a market the companies will have found the price point that brings in the most total revenue. Their costs are independent of the market demand.
Now if the costs were increased so they were taking a loss then they'd have to raise prices and either sell less volume or hope that everyone else also had to raise prices and the demand curve would shift.
But that won't happen because corporate taxes are levied on profits, not revenues, so they'll never put a profit-making corporation into the red. See?
Plus we've already had an increase in the corporate and highest income marginal tax rates in the 90's, and wound up with rising median income and very low inflation. So it seems like the costs of taxation weren't passed on.
Andy: You said "business" not "rich people".
Andy: You said "business" not "rich people".
speculawyer
Member
damn you are clueless.. . . .try 14.4%AndyIsTheMoney said:
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