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[Tyrone Slothrop]

i dunno... msnbc is pretty damn liberal these days. it's not SO bad, but to say it's not biased would be an wrong IMO.

but it makes for great television, no doubt. fox, too -- they're vile, but it's entertaining. cnn is the only primarily objective cable news network. IMO, of couse.

 

[Tamanon]

I think CNN has taken the stance that "objective" means neutral ignorance. Never pressing, never probing. Just repeating.

 

[maximum360]

Stop propogating that shit. They have two famous liberal commentators and in every other way, it is a corporate driven news behemoth, same as any other. The way it reports everything - the economy, finance, politics, science, culture - there is NOTHING liberal about it.

The only liberal slanting shows on MSNBC are Countdown and Rachelle's new show (but at least she has guests on with opposing views). Matthews is pretty much straight down the middle. Gregory and Brokaw lean right but aren't as outspoken and obvious about it as Keith is.

CNN has Dobbs who is a former Republican and blames the democrats for everything on a daily basis. CNN also has Glenn Beck who leans hard right and probably has an IQ in the single digits. Why no left leaning show to balance things out?

Then there's Fox News is truly just republican propaganda with no apologies 24/7.

The only left leaning organizations out there are really the blogosphere, a few liberal talk shows, and a few print publications. The media is far more right leaning overall.

 

[devilhawk]

You're pathetic. Is it really that hard to believe that this type of shit happens?

And really why would the FNA need to lie about something like this? The truth is on their side in this particular incident. There was a massacre, the soldiers couldn't handle it and committed suicide. There is nothing pro-American or pro-western world about this story.

You are better than this. You are smarter than this.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I'll slightly disagree with most of liberal GAF here not that I don't have many many major issues with the coverage of news. I'll say most people generally think their side is always receiving poor treatment from the media when the media is a complex gangly mess that has many different biases operating in conjunction with each other at the same time.

 

[Cloudy]

What do you guys think about this site? I see they predicted the exact 2004 EV outcome..

http://election.princeton.edu/

 

[Ether_Snake]

I think CNN has taken the stance that "objective" means neutral ignorance. Never pressing, never probing. Just repeating.

Exactly.

 

[Stoney Mason]

What do you guys think about this site? I see they predicted the exact 2004 EV outcome..

http://election.princeton.edu/

Seems to confirm what most of the leading indicators do. That the race is extremely close which is why only using one source isn't very informative.

 

[Trakdown]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/business/15lehman.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Merrill Lynch and Lehman Bros. both going down??

Shit. We're in worse trouble than I thought. I thought people were just nervous about 200-300 banks closing, but if this keeps up, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[Juice]

It's not just MSNBC either, it's everyone. Often they'll challenge the surrogate once, then when the surrogate offers up some bullshit retort the reporter will say "and I guess we'll just have to leave it at that." No, you don't leave it at "that", you do your job.

Absolutely. Matthews used to be better at this, but he's taken a lot of heat from network leadership (and America) this year for coming off as strong as he does.

You're right, though, the vast majority of CNN anchors have been this way all along. The only people who know anything there are strictly pundits and aren't in a position to lead interviews.

The McCain thinks the American public is stupid and that the media is complacent, willing to keep this race close no matter what. Sadly they're kinda right about the American public but the media often defends itself quite viciously, as seen after the SNL flac over the loving coverage Obama was getting compared to Hillary; the media proceeded to tear into him nonstop until NC/Indiana came around.

Yeah, McCain is right that America is stupid, but I think the fight with the media is strategic. I think they'd rather pick a silly fight over anything than the actual core campaign issues that they can never win on. Just like lipstick pig was a win, trooper-gate et. al are probably less damaging overall than actually having to go over tax & UHC policy.

 

[sevenchaos]

You are better than this. You are smarter than this.

Well how often do we hear/have heard about stuff like this? The media keeps avoiding news on the war. Fine, maybe I jumped the gun a bit. It's a fucking horrible story if true.

 

[gkryhewy]

Clearly what we need right now is a president who knows nothing about the economy. And a clueless vice president.

 

[Trakdown]

Clearly what we need right now is a president who knows nothing about the economy. And a clueless vice president.

...who left a town of >9,000 with over 20 mil in debt.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The "omg the media is persecuting me" card worked for Bush (and still does) but will it work for McCain? The print media has been slamming all his ads, and some people seem to think the cable news media will be ripping McCain's lies apart all this week (until a new distraction arrives of course). This newfound Obama sympathy within the media should give him the balls to really sock McCain but we'll see.

 

[MrDenny]

I was shocked when McCain was on the view. They asked him why he approved the ads against Obama even though they were complete lies, and he still responded by saying they weren't lies. McCain said he believes the lipstick thing Obama said was towards Palin (even though he said the same quote in his campaign) and he truly thinks Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners.

 

[devilhawk]

Well how often do we hear/have heard about stuff like this? The media keeps avoiding news on the war. Fine, maybe I jumped the gun a bit. It's a fucking horrible story if true.

Considering FNA's track record of photoshops, I'd be a little suspicious. Remember, their readers are the "death to America" type too.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I was shocked when McCain was on the view. They asked him why he approved the ads against Obama even though they were complete lies, and he still responded by saying they weren't lies and he believes the lipstick thing Obama said was towards Palin (even though he said the same quote in his campaign) and he truly thinks Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners.

If you tell a lie long enough you start to believe it.


Romney complained (correctly) about the same treatment from Mccain.

 

[Tamanon]

Sullivan brought up a good point. What if it works? What if just flat-out lying repeatedly wins? Won't that change how campaigning is done?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Clearly what we need right now is a president who knows nothing about the economy. And a clueless vice president.

Seriously, I think come November 4th people will be anxious enough about the future not to mess around and put another average Joe in office. No matter how much of a glutton you might be, if you're bleeding to your death you don't call yourself a pizza.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sullivan brought up a good point. What if it works? What if just flat-out lying repeatedly wins? Won't that change how campaigning is done?

It'll just further ensure McCain gets spanked by Clinton in 2012

 

[Stoney Mason]

Sullivan brought up a good point. What if it works? What if just flat-out lying repeatedly wins? Won't that change how campaigning is done?

It already has. I won't get into historical issues but what was especially honest about 2004?

 

[Ether_Snake]

I was shocked when McCain was on the view. They asked him why he approved the ads against Obama even though they were complete lies, and he still responded by saying they weren't lies. McCain said he believes the lipstick thing Obama said was towards Palin (even though he said the same quote in his campaign) and he truly thinks Obama wants to teach sex ed to kindergartners.

More like he truly thinks he has to act like he truly believes that. Plus, I doubt he actually tries to get informed, he is advised and he says what he has to say, period. He showed no sign of ever being anything more than someone who is power-hungry and will use his artificial reputation for personal gains.

 

[mj1108]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/business/15lehman.html?partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Merrill Lynch and Lehman Bros. both going down??

Shit. We're in worse trouble than I thought. I thought people were just nervous about 200-300 banks closing, but if this keeps up, I wouldn't doubt it.

Quick! Someone ask McCain and Palin about this.

 

[thekad]

If you tell a lie long enough you start to believe it.


Romney complained (correctly) about the same treatment from Mccain.

That debate was all kinds of awesome :lol

 

[Ether_Snake]

Sullivan brought up a good point. What if it works? What if just flat-out lying repeatedly wins? Won't that change how campaigning is done?

If the media allows it, and the McCain camp know they do allow it, of course it works. I even told Democrats supporters in this thread that if they want to win they would have to make all sorts of crazy lies, and flood the channels constantly with lies. No one fact-checks, and by the time someone did you lied ten other times anyway. Not that I think the Obama camp should really do this, but if I was an American I'd probably do that

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

The "omg the media is persecuting me" card worked for Bush (and still does) but will it work for McCain?....

i think it depends on whether the palin honeymoon ends before election day or not. even though she's getting negative publicity and the msm is asking hard questions right and left they're still insanely interested in her and covering her 24/7. if she sort of fades into the background it'll be hard for mccain to play any victim card effectively; if palin is still in the forefront then i guess it could work. although, it didn't work for hildawg, but everybody hates her with a passion so that's a moot point.

 

[Darth Sonik]

The problem with American News is also the fact that they have 5 minute segments to cover a topic. There is no way to introduce a story, allow a reply/retort & then ask hard questions to follow up, in most cases.

Paxman is on the BBC(zero ad breaks), he knows he could ask the same question for 15-20 minutes if necessary, thus encouraging him and the interviewee actually discuss the issue in depth.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Another thing, I said it before, the question that needs to be asked to McCain (or Palin, but preferably McCain because everyone already acknowledges that Palin has the knowledge equivalent of Bush Jr.) is:

What is a recession?

I guarantee you, with 100% certainty, that he could not answer at all.

 

[A Black Falcon]

The only liberal slanting shows on MSNBC are Countdown and Rachelle's new show (but at least she has guests on with opposing views). Matthews is pretty much straight down the middle. Gregory and Brokaw lean right but aren't as outspoken and obvious about it as Keith is.

CNN has Dobbs who is a former Republican and blames the democrats for everything on a daily basis. CNN also has Glenn Beck who leans hard right and probably has an IQ in the single digits. Why no left leaning show to balance things out?

Then there's Fox News is truly just republican propaganda with no apologies 24/7.

The only left leaning organizations out there are really the blogosphere, a few liberal talk shows, and a few print publications. The media is far more right leaning overall.

Well, at least Dobbs spends almost as much time attacking Republicans as he does Democrats... but yeah, CNN/CNNHN has several right-leaning shows, but no left-leaning ones. It's an obvious issue they really should fill.

(Oh, and should we count Nancy Grace too? She's quite hard right...)

CNN overall is pretty middle of the road so I don't mind watching it, but they really should have more actual liberals, not just moderates and conservatives. It's pretty sad how far right the American "mainstream" is...

 

[Tamanon]

Yeah "good" surrogates have learned to run out the clock on questions.

 

[Azrael]

I think CNN has taken the stance that "objective" means neutral ignorance. Never pressing, never probing. Just repeating.

They have a mix of neutrals/stenographers and right wingers like Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs, which on the balance makes them center-right as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mj1108]

Another thing, I said it before, the question that needs to be asked to McCain (or Palin, but preferably McCain because everyone already acknowledges that Palin has the knowledge equivalent of Bush Jr.) is:

What is a recession?

I guarantee you, with 100% certainty, that he could not answer at all.

I can hear it now: "What recession? We've made great strides in our economy."

 

[Ether_Snake]

The problem with American News is also the fact that they have 5 minute segments to cover a topic. There is no way to introduce a story, allow a reply/retort & then ask hard questions to follow up, in most cases.

Paxman is on the BBC(zero ad breaks), he knows he could ask the same question for 15-20 minutes if necessary, thus encouraging him and the interviewee actually discuss the issue in depth.

His interviews rule :lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

The problem with American News is also the fact that they have 5 minute segments to cover a topic. There is no way to introduce a story, allow a reply/retort & then ask hard questions to follow up, in most cases.

Paxman is on the BBC(zero ad breaks), he knows he could ask the same question for 15-20 minutes if necessary, thus encouraging him and the interviewee actually discuss the issue in depth.

The problem with American news (especially cable news) is there is no desire either on the parts of the networks or the audience listening to delve beneath the surface on any issue. Everybody wants to drive by the scene of the accident and rubberneck and speculate what happened rather than stop and get out and investigate to use a tortured metaphor.

 

[Cloudy]

Hehe, looks like Gordon Brown wants Axelrod and Co. to help him beat David Cameron :lol

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...k-Obama-aides-to-help-beat-David-Cameron.html

Why do I feel Obama's jinxed now?

 

[Slurpy]

Best political team on television right there.

What a joke.

I honestly think Wolf is one of the biggest hacks on CNN. Yes, he tries hard to be a robot, and 'neutral', which tends to mean swallowing whatever bullshit is thrown his way. Thats not journalism, and that's not valuable to the viewer. Grow some fucking balls Wolf. You're not doing anyone a favor.

 

[Cloudy]

The problem with American news (especially cable news) is there is no desire either on the parts of the networks or the audience listening to delve beneath the surface on any issue. Everybody wants to drive by the scene of the accident and rubberneck and speculate what happened rather than stop and get out and investigate to use a tortured metaphor.

The REAL problem is that 90% of the population have low attention spans and won't/can't follow important things like politics unless there's a "story" of they're entertained in the process. The MSM needs ratings so they have to present it this way.

Don't blame the news channels, blame the willfully ignorant amongst us..

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Seems to confirm what most of the leading indicators do. That the race is extremely close which is why only using one source isn't very informative.

Color me confused but Obama 238 McCain 300 doesn't look close to me....

Am I doing it wrong?

 

[MrDenny]

I saw Campbell Brown from CNN being attacked by this one Republican Lady, because she thought Brown was unfair towards Republicans in past shows. It was pretty funny.

 

[Cloudy]

Color me confused but Obama 238 McCain 300 doesn't look close to me....

Am I doing it wrong?

I see this at the top of the page:

State polls, September 14, 5:00PM EDT: Obama: 273 McCain: 265 Meta-margin: Obama +0.56%

 

[Stoney Mason]

Color me confused but Obama 238 McCain 300 doesn't look close to me....

Am I doing it wrong?

Where are you seeing that?

 

[speculawyer]

The only left leaning organizations out there are really the blogosphere, a few liberal talk shows, and a few print publications. The media is far more right leaning overall.

Well, AirAmerica is left talk network. Of course, it is one network compared to the zillions of right-radio programs and the tons of Christian stations that are all pretty much right-leaning.

I'm convinced that the religious-right are the real base of the GOP. How else can appointing a self-declared 'hockey mom' with less foreign policy knowledge than all the posters here and a 6-year plan college degree actually 'energize the base'. Objectively looking at background & experience, she is a total disaster. But since she's a hardcore Christian, she's powered up the base.

Here we go . . . another ignorant folksy Christian fundamentalist to drive the nation into the ground.


Yeah, I'm on a rant. The right has the awesome voter base. People who don't mind if you are unqualified and if you total lie to them. I just saw a McCain commercial which made the complete discredited 'Bridge to Nowhere' claim. That GOP voter base either is completely ignorant of the truth or doesn't mind that they are being lied to. Either way, it is a sad state of the electorate.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I honestly think Wolf is one of the biggest hacks on CNN. Yes, he tries hard to be a robot, and 'neutral', which tends to mean swallowing whatever bullshit is thrown his way. Thats not journalism, and that's not valuable to the viewer. Grow some fucking balls Wolf. You're not doing anyone a favor.

He's always trying to soundbite people.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The REAL problem is that 90% of the population have low attention spans and won't/can't follow important things like politics unless there's a "story" of they're entertained in the process. The MSM needs ratings so they have to present it this way.

Don't blame the news channels, blame the willfully ignorant amongst us..

Notice how, for example on CNN (and I presume Fox News and other news shows), the flood of commercials never end? Sometimes you get two minutes of commercials, two minutes of news, and back to the commercials.

 

[Darth Sonik]

Stoney...is that you?

Nice new (identity hiding) avatar.

 

[Stinkles]

Greenspan says we Can't afford McCain Tax Cuts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/14/greenspan-this-is-the-wor_n_126274.html

Mind you, Greenspan helped make these subprime loans and self-regulating financial machines the cause of our current woes.

 

[Tamanon]

Well, AirAmerica is left talk network. Of course, it is one network compared to the zillions of right-radio programs and the tons of Christian stations that are all pretty much right-leaning.

I'm convinced that the religious-right are the real base of the GOP. How else can appointing a self-declared 'hockey mom' with less foreign policy knowledge than all the posters here and a 6-year plan college degree actually 'energize the base'. Objectively looking at background & experience, she is a total disaster. But since she's a hardcore Christian, she's powered up the base.

Here we go . . . another ignorant folksy Christian fundamentalist to drive the nation into the ground.


Yeah, I'm on a rant. The right has the awesome voter base. People who don't mind if you are unqualified and if you total lie to them. I just saw a McCain commercial which made the complete discredited 'Bridge to Nowhere' claim. That GOP voter base either is completely ignorant of the truth or doesn't mind that they are being lied to. Either way, it is a sad state of the electorate.

The religious right is their base, because they focus on the stuff that can branch out. You can't focus on being a fiscal conservative, because being a politician you theoretically have to tell the people you're going to do something for them, and that generally involves spending.

 

[mj1108]

I saw Campbell Brown from CNN being attacked by this one Republican Lady, because she thought Brown was unfair towards Republicans in past shows. It was pretty funny.

That Republican woman was probably referring to how Campbell Brown owned Tucker Bounds in an interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI

That interview prompted the McCain campaign to cancel further interviews/appearances on the network.

 

[A Black Falcon]

They have a mix of neutrals/stenographers and right wingers like Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs, which on the balance makes them center-right as far as I'm concerned.

What's interesting about it is that CNN easily won the in rating during the Democratic convention, which suggests that Democrats watch the channel... Fox News won in the Republican convention, of course. But you'd think that CNN might want to do something of some kind to capitalize on the fact that they do well with Democrats... guess not. Being "objectively" center-right is their plan, sadly.

I saw Campbell Brown from CNN being attacked by this one Republican Lady, because she thought Brown was unfair towards Republicans in past shows. It was pretty funny.

Campbell Brown's husband is Republican consultant and Fox News contributor Dan Senor... it's doubtful that she's unbiased, though yes, she did have a great, pressing interview with Tucker Bounds that was one of the things the Republicans were reacting to in their convention "the media are all Democrats and hate us" stuff.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

i could never be on cable news. i don't know how they keep composure during those shows. especially on something like hannity and colmes. alan colmes must pop xanax before they start filming because i don't know how he keeps himself from ripping sean's spine out.