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[Y2Kev]

I still think Palin was a necessary choice. If McCain hadn't set her up as some kind of babbling lie machine, he'd be right in the thick of it instead of looking like some crazy 90 year old lunatic.

 

[JayDubya]

Good to know, you seemed non committal the first time you answered the question

Ever seen Rob Roy? There's a good example of the honorable way to handle that scenario.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

good times. things are really gearing up, debates will be EPIC television

Everybody get ready to party!

 

[Branduil]

Good to know, you seemed non committal the first time you answered the question

Well, it's hard when you have to carefully phrase things so that people don't accuse you of either being an unsympathetic bastard or a hypocrite.

 

[AndresON777]

http://buzzfeed.com/scott/mccain-894th-out-of-899-at-school

My god, he is such an idiot!

but POW! POW! POW! I can hear it now.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

And Barack was right about the surge too

http://news.yahoo.com/story//nm/20080919/sc_nm/iraq_lights_dc



GTFO, Neocons...

Just as I said. The Sunni Awakening and Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army agreeing to a cease fire reduced violence. All the surge did was to keep outsiders from entering local communities. Neighborhood containment. The military set up barracades and rooted out insurgents. :lol:

 

[Thunder Monkey]

she also fired up the Dem base.

That she did.:lol

In the span of her first speech at the RNC the Reps made $2 million dollars, and the Dems made $8 million.

She incited the Dem base more then she inspired the Rep base.

 

[Learn2read]

nvm

 

[LuCkymoON]

Poll: Obama tops McCain as football-watching buddy

People prefer Obama as a teacher for their children.

McCain tops Obama as person to be stuck with as a POW.

Spoiler

OK I made that up but I thought Johnny should win something.

"He seems intensely focused in a way I'm not sure he does sit down and relax," McCain supporter Lanita Linch, 41, of Harrison, Ark., said of the Republican. She said she'd rather watch football with Obama because he seemed like "someone you could be comfortable and at ease with."

mmmhhmmmm >_>

once you go black.... =O

 

[kkaabboomm]

good times. things are really gearing up, debates will be EPIC television

debates during prime time? absolutely.

debate at 9pm EST on a Friday night? i honestly do not know. i have no clue if the millions upon millions of people who normally watch the debates will even know it is on.

the prime time ones have advertising, its prime time, during the week, people are at home, and so you can get 75+million watching on all channels. 9pm friday night people are out, they aren't watching tv so they dont see 'the debate is on!', etc.

i honestly don't know how big the audience will be for this first debate. large, for sure, but not nearly as large as it could be. i am 100% prepared for the sunday shows to be talking about it and always add in 'but only X# of people watched, down from last election -- what does this mean for election turnout/how bad is it for Obama that turnout might be low this year, based on how "few" people watched it comparatively"

 

[mckmas8808]

And Barack was right about the surge too

http://news.yahoo.com/story//nm/20080919/sc_nm/iraq_lights_dc



GTFO, Neocons...

Why do people that hugely support the surge still hate to admit the fact that stuff in this article is just plain true?

So how many REPs will still say Obama doesn't have foreign policy experince and point out the surge?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't know how I would "make" her do anything. In any case, my views on life are certainly something I would discuss with any potential girlfriends or future Mrs. Branduils, and I don't believe I would date someone who doesn't also believe that babies are not responsible for the sins of their father.

You're dodging the question with talking points.

Would you be against her getting an abortion if she was raped?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Since so many posts were dedicated to those kooks at the Obama rally earlier I thought a decent article exploring Black Republicans might cleanse the palette. Decent read.

FOR BLACK REPUBLICANS, RACE COMPLICATES THE CAMPAIGN
BY JOY-ANN REID
Clarence McKee says that if there are black Republicans who are tempted to support Barack Obama’s historic run for president, he’s not one of them.
“I’m proud of the guy; great achievement,’’ said McKee, who is one of Florida’s most prominent black members of the GOP. “But black people and liberals didn’t support (former Maryland Lieutenant Governor) Michael Steele when he ran for the Senate, and they didn’t support (NFL Hall of Fame receiver) Lynn Swann when he ran (for Pennsylvania governor in 2006), so why should black Republicans support Obama just because he’s black?’’

For McKee, who is the communications director for the Broward County Republican Party, issues like taxes, school choice and the war on terror are more important. Besides, he says, the Illinois senator would be “like Jimmy Carter’’ as president: too liberal. He says black voters are only hurting themselves by being so transparent in their loyalty to one political party.

“We’re the only voter group that shows our ‘hole card’ before the game starts,’’ he said, putting it in Blackjack terms. “Jewish voters are in play; Hispanic voters are in play; women and blue collar voters are in play. The only people not in play are black people.’’

For more than 40 years since first exercising their voting rights in 1868 – a year in which they may have provided the margin of victory for Republican Ulysses S. Grant – most black voters favored the GOP, crossing party lines in sizable numbers for the first time in 1932 to support Franklin D. Roosevelt.

By the time President Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts of 1964 and 1965, prompting southern “Dixiecrats’’ to exit the party, African Americans had become reliable Democratic voters (though Richard Nixon received more than 30 percent of the black vote when he ran against John F. Kennedy in 1960).

Still, Jewish voters have been nearly as loyal to Democrats, giving the party more than 75 percent of their votes in each of the last three presidential races, and between 60 and 90 percent of their support dating back to 1928, according to the book, Jews in American Politics by L. Sandy Maisel and Ira Forma.

And while the situation shifted in 2000 and 2004, when George W. Bush won 35 and 40 percent, “historically, Hispanic voters outside of the Cuban community have tended to be Democrats’’ by more than two-thirds, according to Fernand Amandi, an analyst with Bendixen and Associates, a Miami polling firm specializing in the Latino vote, “though that margin has shrunk since 1996, when Bill Clinton got 72 percent of the Latino vote.’’

Still, many black Republicans see missed opportunities for both blacks and the GOP.

“The party is facing the truth that the changing demographics of America means it must better clarify its platform to appeal to the new members that are being targeted; that being blacks, Hispanics and women,’’ said Levi Williams, 39, legal counsel to the Broward Republican Executive Committee.

Williams, who last year chaired the Florida Council on the Social Status of Black Men and Boys, admits that as a black man, he finds Obama’s candidacy compelling.

“I think every black voter in America is tempted to vote for Senator Obama, as it is a historic moment in time, and politics aside, [his election] certainly would have a positive impact on the Diaspora in America, as to the desires and ambitions of our children, especially our black males,’’ Williams said.

He isn’t alone. Nationally, prominent black Republicans like former Bush Secretary of State Gen. Colin Powell and his successor, Condoleezza Rice, have expressed excitement over Obama’s candidacy, if not support, and so far have declined to endorse their party’s candidate, John McCain.

For Williams, as for McKee, issues come first, and he thinks McCain can garner 5 to 10 percent of the black vote ultimately. He does worry, though, that with both an African American and a woman on opposite sides of the ballot, ideas may not rule the day.

“I think unfortunately, while we have a myriad of issues on the table that need to be addressed by both candidates, ultimately what will be a driving force in this campaign, regrettably, will boil down to race and gender,’’ he said.

David Bositis, a political scientist and expert on black voting patterns who is based at the Joint Center for Political Economic Studies in Washington, disagrees. He said the election of Douglas Wilder as Virginia’s – and the country’s – first black governor in 1990 proves that white racial voting is becoming less of a factor outside of the Deep South.

Allen West, 47, a black retired Army lieutenant colonel who is running for Congress in the 22nd District against Democrat Ron Klein, also said race won’t be much of a factor, and that the election, from the top of the ticket down, will come down to “character, values and ideology.’’

“The thing is, Sen. Obama and I are totally, diametrically opposed when you look at my background as compared to his, and the lifetime of service I have in my background as opposed to his,’’ West said.

As for his own campaign, West, whose district is less than 10 percent minority, said, “If people notice that I have a really nice permanent tan, that’s nice, but I don't talk that. I’m very proud of my heritage and who I am and what my family has achieved, [but] the true measurement of a person is their character and how they carry themselves.’’

Despite the ideological support that Obama enjoys among some, Bositis predicted that many black Republicans will choose Obama, and that McCain won’t get more than 5 percent of the overall black vote – a worse showing than President Bush, who received 11 percent of the black vote in 2004.

“I think there have been Republicans in the past, including George W. Bush, who had genuine black connections,’’ Bositis said. “The problem is that [McCain] is really the first Republican nominee in a long time who is running solely on a white, southern base; because even though he is from Arizona, which is almost entirely white, his roots go back to Mississippi.’’

He added, “A lot of black Republicans are Republicans because they have business interests. But with McCain, there’s not even any business interests there. This is somebody where there’s no ‘there’ there in terms of African Americans. McCain has been in Washington for 25 years, and is supposed to be a national leader, and he’s not associated with a single black person. Not one.’’

Bositis said he sees the pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, whom he calls a “shout out to southern, small town Republicans,’’ as solidifying McCain’s decision to run a campaign that Bositis sees as reminiscent of Barry Goldwater’s contentious run in 1964, when “the southerners took over the Republican party,’’ and “African Americans and Republicans had their divorce.’’ (Goldwater, like McCain, is from Arizona.)

He cites the fact that just 3 percent of the delegates to the 2008 Republican National Convention were black, compared with 23 percent of Democratic convention delegates. Saying black Republican organizations are in decline nationwide, Bositis dismisses attempts by groups like the National Black Republican Association, which has launched a series of radio ads attacking Barack Obama, to attract black voters by casting the party in terms of Abraham Lincoln.

“Abraham Lincoln was from the North, whereas the Republican Party is now a southern party,’’ Bositis said.

He cited the moderate party of Lincoln in contrast with northeastern liberals like Jacob Javitz and Nelson Rockefeller of New York, or even southern Republicans like Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Florida Gov. Charlie Crist.

“I believe that sooner or later the current manifestation of the Republican Party is going to collapse,’’ Bositis says. “And there’s quite a few Republicans who believe that as well, because they’re on the losing side of history. They want to pretend that Darwin doesn’t exist.’’

But, Bositis said, eventually the GOP can rebound with the black electorate.

“When the Republican Party reconstitutes and becomes more naturally a party of business instead of a regional party, which it is right now, their potential in terms of black support will grow exponentially. But as I’ve said to the RNC, it’s not gonna happen until you reconstitute.’’

http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1924&Itemid=42

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You're dodging the question with talking points.

Would you be against her getting an abortion if she was raped?

Ooooo....

 

[JayDubya]

You're dodging the question with talking points.

No, he's not.

 

[Fragamemnon]

What's the news on Ted Stevens? Haven't heard anything about him in ages.

His trial starts next month in Alaska. He's still within single digits of his Democratic opponent in the general election after handily winning his primary, but he's behind and really not expected to win at this point.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

No, he's not.

Fine, then he can answer the question:

Would you be against her getting an abortion if she was raped?

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I'm kinda surprised. I could see any other democratic candidate acting just the way McCain is right now. Jumping around, blaming everbody & saying "i'll fire the SEC chairmen" etc. Obama is waiting for Paulson's plan before responding. Fucking smart advisors he has.

 

[Schlep]

lol @ Cafferty again.

"[McCain's] slogan should be, 'What Obama said.'"

 

[Price Dalton]

Everybody get ready to party!

What a delicious looking meal.

 

[JayDubya]

Fine, then he can answer the question:

He said he wouldn't date someone that would be willing to abort in the first place. That should automatically answer your question.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

God I hate steak. Chicken all the way, baaaaaaaaaaaby!

 

[Learn2read]

You're dodging the question with talking points.

Would you be against her getting an abortion if she was raped?

"It's a trap!"

 

[mckmas8808]

A reporter (David Corn) just said on MSNBC that Todd Palin is still refusing to testify. And he said that the person leading the investigation (a republican woman) is pissed off at the REP party for screwing with the investigation.

You hear that GAF? The republican leading the investigation is blaming the McCain campaign for telling everybody to ubstruct justice and not follow through with their testimony.

He just said this on MSNBC like 10 minutes ago.

 

[Stinkles]

Ever seen Rob Roy? There's a good example of the honorable way to handle that scenario.

Everyone hide in a cow!

 

[The Chosen One]

Booo Mike Barnicle....

 

[NullPointer]

He said he wouldn't date someone that would be willing to abort raped in the first place. That should automatically answer your question.

Hmmm... I see your point.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

He said he wouldn't date someone that would be willing to abort in the first place. That should automatically answer your question.

Hypothetically:

Fine, so then he dates and eventually marries the girl that is 100% against abortion.

The girl is raped.

A kid the product of that rape.

They decide.

And everyday you see the child's face, you have to be reminded of how the child was conceived.

And pray the child never learns the truth.

If true, he is a bigger man than 99% of people I know.

 

[JayDubya]

Hmmm... I see your point.

Doesn't make sense. You can't control what other people do. Some people choose to be animalistic amoral aggressive fucktards. So you can be better than that, or, not.

Hmmm... I see your point.

Doesn't make sense. You can't control what other people do. Some people choose to be animalistic amoral aggressive fucktards. So you can be better than that, or, not.

Hypothetically:

Fine, so then he dates and eventually marries the girl that is 100% against abortion. The girl is raped. A kid the product of that rape. They decide.

And everyday you see the child's face, you have to be reminded of how the child was conceived. And pray the child never learns the truth.

If true, he is a bigger man than 99% of people I know.

You don't have to get a DNA screening done, and you can just raise the child as your own and not worry about the possibility. Like I said, Rob Roy. If that's too much, and for a lot of people it is, there's always another option. The ad-one.

 

[NullPointer]

Doesn't make sense. You can't control what other people do. Some people choose to be animalistic amoral aggressive fucktards. So you can be better than that, or, not.

Exactly my point.

Circumstances change. You can't predict the future and all of it's outcomes. That's why there is no "automatic answer" to every situation.

Our current abortion laws exist as they do because of worst case scenarios, not because anybody wants to abort fetuses. If abortion is outlawed, those fetuses will still end up dead, one way or another. The difference is that you'd have a lot more imprisoned doctors, and a lot more dead/seriously injured women.

The world is imperfect.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Since so many posts were dedicated to those kooks at the Obama rally earlier I thought a decent article exploring Black Republicans might cleanse the palette. Decent read.



http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1924&Itemid=42

If the current Republican party folded, I would love for it to become something akin to the centre-right parties of EU & Canada. Business oriented, but can deal with UHC, and social programs too. Also, none of them are filled with social issue nutjobs.

 

[Learn2read]

Fish love oil rigs!

 

[Mumei]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article818181.ece




Palin: the gift that keeps on giving.

From the link:

"I really wanted someone youthful and someone who could relate more to the future generations," said Republican Jim Soltis, 70, of Holiday, who is weighing his desire for expanded health insurance access with maintaining Bush's tax cuts. "So I keep watching and watching and hoping for Obama to say the right things, and he's not saying them."

Most of the members of the panel participated in a similar focus group meeting in August, though three new voters joined the group this week. To a person, this is a group of bright, well-informed voters paying close attention to the election and frustrated they're not hearing more specifics and substance from the candidates.

The conventions did nothing for them — bored them, in many cases — and they're looking for the debates starting Friday to finally make up their minds.

"I'm not crazy about Obama, and I'm really not crazy about McCain," said Democrat Carlos Gonzalez, a 70-year-old higher education administrator from Oldsmar, who preferred Clinton. "I really have not heard anybody saying what they're going to do with this mess we have. ... Obama keeps saying they're going to change, but what are they going to change? He doesn't say how he's going to do it, what he's going to change, what's he going to do?"

Yet another group of undecided voters described as "informed" who then give their complaints: Obama isn't saying the right things to relate to the younger generations, and B) Obama has no substance.

Brilliant.

For once, can I see them described as poorly informed? Uninformed? Confused?

 

[JayDubya]

not because anybody wants to abort fetuses

I beg to differ. A lot of them are killed. If people don't want to do it, then don't.

If abortion is outlawed, those fetuses will still end up dead, one way or another. The difference is that you'd have a lot more imprisoned doctors, and a lot more dead/seriously injured women.

Aggression against the rights of the innocent deserves punishment, and actions have consequences.

What you're saying does not sway me in the least, and should not sway anyone. If it's just, it's just; if it isn't, it isn't.

 

[Price Dalton]

Fish love oil rigs!

Snorkel tours a possible new venture for oil companies?

 

[Hitokage]

You don't have to get a DNA screening done, and you can just raise the child as your own and not worry about the possibility.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Stinkles]

From the link:



Yet another group of undecided voters described as "informed" who then give their complaints: Obama isn't saying the right things to relate to the younger generations, and B) Obama has no substance.

Brilliant.

For once, can I see them described as poorly informed? Uninformed? Confused?

If he could make his stated policies short and snappy and in the form of a limerick, then the people would get it.

 

[Branduil]

You're dodging the question with talking points.

Would you be against her getting an abortion if she was raped?

Of course I would. And so would she, most likely, so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[AndresON777]

lol @ Cafferty again.

"[McCain's] slogan should be, 'What Obama said.'"

He really needs his own show, when lou dobbs comes on I switch the channel. lou dobbs is horrible but lou dobbs in hd is torture.

 

[speculawyer]

If the current Republican party folded, I would love for it to become something akin to the centre-right parties of EU & Canada. Business oriented, but can deal with UHC, and social programs too. Also, none of them are filled with social issue nutjobs.

That would be awesome. As is, I'm pretty much always forced into the D column because the theocracy of those in the GOP.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

What a delicious looking meal.

Thank you! IIRC that particular T-bone turned out really well.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I still think Palin was a necessary choice. If McCain hadn't set her up as some kind of babbling lie machine, he'd be right in the thick of it instead of looking like some crazy 90 year old lunatic.

There were other red-state, inexperienced social/fiscal conservatives that he could have picked that would have had an equally energizing base response. Instead, they went with Palin-the cynically "celebrity" pick due to her life story and family-and now they are getting burned by the pick. When the pick was annouced, I said that it offered them two days of good press for two months of headaches. I was wrong about that-they got a good two weeks out of her before she started to stink up the place, and she's going to be an albatross for McCain with independents down the stretch.

A good article about the similarities between Palin and Quayle:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=90e31ecd-60d8-4a84-aaf2-0d92e09bd9f3

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Doesn't make sense. You can't control what other people do. Some people choose to be animalistic amoral aggressive fucktards. So you can be better than that, or, not.

And that's where the crossroads between ideologies exists.

I wouldn't want the woman I'm with to have to deal with the psychological terror of raising the child of a man that took away her very reproductive rights.

Does it make someone a better person that they can survive the experience and still raise the child? Why don't we leave that up to the women that live with that experience?

That doesn't end the argument in some minds, but it's more then enough for me to say I have no right to intervene, nor judge. You obviously have a vastly different outlook.

But at the end of the day I look at this as a game of power. You want to take away that choice, that power. You'd rather they live with it, and raise what was made with no choice.

In my opinion that makes you a slight step up from the rapists, but not near enough apart to have any say on the subject.

 

[speculawyer]

Yet another group of undecided voters described as "informed" who then give their complaints: Obama isn't saying the right things to relate to the younger generations, and B) Obama has no substance.

Brilliant.

For once, can I see them described as poorly informed? Uninformed? Confused?

Old. Look, stump speeches have little content in them. You need to go to the web sites to learn the specifics and I doubt those old farts understand 'the internets' or 'the google'.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You don't have to get a DNA screening done, and you can just raise the child as your own and not worry about the possibility. Like I said, Rob Roy. If that's too much, and for a lot of people it is, there's always another option. The ad-one.

But the parents would know the truth and live with it daily.

What if the rapist was another race?

How do you explain that away?

And the ad- option?

Bullcrap, in that scenario, the child might want to find his/her birth parents at some point. And could find out why they were put up for adoption/discarded.

In both scenarios, the child loses as they are the one lied to by people who claim to love them.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

In depth look at a big part of Obama's ground game:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aIxU19LXZBa4&refer=home

 

[JayDubya]

That would be awesome. As is, I'm pretty much always forced into the D column because the theocracy of those in the GOP.

No, you're not. There's an L column. Which you claim to be. And the Ls don't approve of UHC or those social programs. At all. On a fundamental level.

So if you want both major parties to favor those things, and you only vote for major parties, then can you finally just say you're a D and be done with it?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

He said he wouldn't date someone that would be willing to abort in the first place. That should automatically answer your question.

So he is going to ask his potential girlfriend if she would be willing to have the baby of the thug who raped her? I'd like to see the response he got with that question. The person he dates may be anti-abortion and may even say she would never get an abortion if he accidentally impregnated her, but things might change if she was to be raped by some dirty thug in an alleyway one night.

His "philosophy" does not automatically answer any questions. I am asking if he would be opposed to his girlfriend getting an abortion should she be raped by some thug. Just because he thinks he would never date someone who would be willing to get an abortion does not mean that his potential girlfriend isn't willing to change her beliefs when something terrible happens.

What would he do if his girlfriend was raped and said she wants to get an abortion? Would he just break up with her because he doesn't date people who get abortions? Would he oppose the abortion? Either way he comes off as a piece of shit in my book.

 

[Stinkles]

Of course I would. And so would she, most likely, so I'm not sure what your point is.

You already said you hadn't met her yet, and statistically most women are actually in favor of abortion. A huge subset of those opposed to it are for it on medical and circumstantial grounds. To get into this hypothetical position, you are going to have to ask a lot of questions that will guarantee that you won't get a second date.

Also, depending on what woodland creature you are dressed as, I imagine this will be the worst date in history.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

.