• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Freedom = $1.05 said:
Yea, it's sad what one reaalllllllyyyyy bad tv appearance could do to a person.


I always felt bad for him. You can of course argue that he was running for the Vice President of the United States so there is no real need for sympathy in a sense but he seemed like a decent enough guy unlike say a Dan Quayle or a Palin who really are puppets and mouthpieces for some bad policy. A quote from him years later.

It was terribly frustrating because I remember I started with, "Who am I? Why am I here?" and I never got back to that because there was never an opportunity for me to explain my life to people. It was so different from Quayle and Gore. The four years in solitary confinement in Vietnam, 7½ years in prisons, drop the first bomb that started the...American bombing raid in the North Vietnam. We blew the oil storage tanks of them off the map. And I never—I couldn't approach—I don't say it just to brag, but, I mean, my sensitivities are completely different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
 

woeds

Member
Souldriver said:
In dutch there's a word that basically means "substitute embarrasment". I suffer a lot from it. Palin is like the first auditions in American Idol.
I know what you mean. I actually haven't watched more than 10 secs of Palin speaking so far, I immediately get 'plaatsvervangende schaamte' . Reading the transcripts is bad enough
 
woeds said:
I know what you mean. I actually haven't watched more than 10 secs of Palin speaking so far, I immediately get 'plaatsvervangende schaamte' . Reading the transcripts is bad enough
That's the word. :)


James Stockdale's VP pick seems kinda tragic, and I can see how you'd feel bad for him, but if his only schtick was him being a POW, he wasn't fit to be VP in the first place. That's just going from the quote and info Stoney gave, off course.
 

mj1108

Member
gluv65 said:
So the McCain campaign is going to protect Ms. Palin in the debate

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?hp

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between Gov. Sarah Palin and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

By doing this, the McCain camp basically admits that Palin is inexperienced and can't handle this.

Schlep said:
I think the republicans cried sexist a bit too much, and no one's even gonna care now short of him making thrusting motions in her direction after a verbal beatdown. (Which I could totally see Biden doing)

At this point, I'll be disappointed if he doesn't do that. :lol
 
Cheebs said:
Uh... Tom Brokaw is solid, he isn't a gotcha kind of guy. I would be far more worried about the CBS guy doing the economic debate.

I gave Brokaw the benefit of the doubt earlier on but he's becoming quite the McCain shill over the last couple of months. The only difference between Brokaw and David Gregory is that Gregory doesn't have as many years as Brokaw and his speech is marble free.
 
At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between Gov. Sarah Palin and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

My god...this is just appalling.... a debate is to show which candidate is more knowledgeable, giving one of the debaters the easy way out should never, ever, EVER be allowed to happen.

I mean, wow, they are letting McCain rig the election.
 

kevm3

Member
Disgusting that the debate is being altered to suit the McCain camp. The American people need facts, and not what makes Palin look the least disastrous. The Obama canpneeds to call this out. It's a shame that someone who can potentially be President is being hidden like this. Just disgusting.
 
maximum360 said:
I gave Brokaw the benefit of the doubt earlier on but he's becoming quite the McCain shill over the last couple of months. The only difference between Brokaw and David Gregory is that Gregory doesn't have as many years as Brokaw and his speech is marble free.


GAF doesn't like Brokaw but I pretty much disagree. I've always thought Brokaw was pretty fair across the board even with an acknowledged emphasis he tends to favor for "our greatest generation".

As far as convention coverage if he appeared to lean right I would guess it was mainly to instinctively balance out Matthews and Olbermann.

Also I don't really have a problem with Bob Schieffer that much either despite that whole Gen Clark affair which was admittedly annoying.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Obama needs a countdown (countup?) on his site

WEEKS SINCE SARAH PALIN HAS GIVEN A PRESS CONFERENCE
 
I was a bit disappointed to see the debate committee cave in somewhat to Palin's handlers demands. But judging from her few off-script moments, it won't take much time for her to babble nonsensical answers.

Biden just needs to hold serve and just let Palin implode on her own before the American public. She's a terrible BS'er. If she doesn't know something, she rambles by juxtaposing talking points or just becomes incoherent.

We're less than two weeks from the debates and she's yet to take questions from a non-partisan or hostile environment and she's still stumbled. Charlie Gibson wasn't a hostile interview. His questions were fairly tame but she made it harder than it needed to be.

If she hasn't improved substantially by the Katie Couric interview, the VP debate is going to be an epic fail for her regardless of the format changes.
 

dasein

Member
Gantz said:
lol looks like the republicans have gotten that article taken down :lol

wait. what the hell? this sucks I just posted the article on facebook and now plp are gonna click out of interest and find nothin'
 
Stoney Mason said:
GAF doesn't like Brokaw but I pretty much disagree. I've always thought Brokaw was pretty fair across the board even with an acknowledged emphasis he tends to favor for "our greatest generation".

As far as convention coverage if he appeared to lean right I would guess it was mainly to instinctively balance out Matthews and Olbermann.

Also I don't really have a problem with Bob Schieffer that much either despite that whole Gen Clark affair which was admittedly annoying.

Well I think that's a failing. You shouldn't need to lean left or right to balance anyone out. If he claims to be objective, that's what he should be.

MSNBC also has Joe Scarbs, Pat Buchanan, David Gregory, etc. Matthews may like Obama but he's pretty even keel (but also having "Why can't Obama close the deal" segments the entire summer).
 

Deku

Banned
Seems like the McCain campaign is very creative with their attacks. It could be a problem come debate time. That they may try to get Obama do slip up.
 
And if it hasn't been posted Nate at 538 addressed that Yahoo racial voting thing over at Yahoo.

The commentariat's topic du jour is this AP story which cites a study conducted in conjunction with Yahoo!, Knowledge Networks and Stanford University and which reports that "Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice." Here are some thoughts I have on the matter:

1. It is irresponsible to cite this study without fully disclosing its methods or making it subject to peer review, particularly as it appears to use a rather convoluted soup of statistical and inferential techniques.

2. The study appears to be one of all adults, rather than registered or likely voters. Expressions of racial prejudice have a strong inverse correlation with education levels, and so do turnout rates. Therefore, even if it is true that Barack Obama's race puts him at something like a 6-point disadvantage with the population as a whole, the margin is probably more like 4-5 points among likely voters.

3. A related and unresolved question is how many persons will vote for Barack Obama because he is black. Such behavior would probably be more implicit and harder to ascertain than voting against a candidate because of racial prejudice. For instance, Obama's biography is significantly more compelling because he is black (actually, bi-racial), and his change message is probably somewhat easier to sell because he looks different than other (e.g. white) politicians. If he were white, in other words, Barack Obama would not be Barack Obama. Moreover, there may be some people who explicitly vote for Obama because they think it will advance a goal of racial equality, present a different face to the world, and so forth. In the absence of sufficient detail on the study's methodology, it is impossible to know whether these things have been accounted for.

4. One should be very careful not to confuse a study like this with the Bradley Effect. Of course some people are racist, and will vote against Obama because he is black -- I have met some of them. But the Bradley Effect concerns something different -- whether such people are likely to lie about their behavior to pollsters. There is simply no empirical evidence that the Bradley Effect exists any longer. It did not exist in the primaries, and it did not exist in the 2006 Senate race in Tennessee, which was perhaps the most racially-tinged contest of the past decade (in fact, Harold Ford slightly outperformed the late polls).
 
maximum360 said:
Well I think that's a failing. You shouldn't need to lean left or right to balance anyone out. If he claims to be objective, that's what he should be.

MSNBC also has Joe Scarbs, Pat Buchanan, David Gregory, etc. Matthews may like Obama but he's pretty even keel (but also having "Why can't Obama close the deal" segments the entire summer).


I think these things are relative. I think Olberman and Matthews are often aggressive in pushing their viewpoints. In that instance the right thing may not be to just be purely moderate which might mean the other side is simply not being presented at all. You would have to give me a youtube example where Brokaw crossed a line before I could agree.
 
The Chosen One said:
I was a bit disappointed to see the debate committee cave in somewhat to Palin's handlers demands. But judging from her few off-script moments, it won't take much time for her to babble nonsensical answers.

Biden just needs to hold serve and just let Palin implode on her own before the American public. She's a terrible BS'er. If she doesn't know something, she rambles by juxtaposing talking points or just becomes incoherent.

We're less than two weeks from the debates and she's yet to take questions from a non-partisan or hostile environment and she's still stumbled. Charlie Gibson wasn't a hostile interview. His questions were fairly tame but she made it harder than it needed to be.

If she hasn't improved substantially by the Katie Couric interview, the VP debate is going to be an epic fail for her regardless of the format changes.

my main concern is the campaign advisors are feeding palin "you're no jack kennedy" lines to memorize for the debate, and it'll be more covered by the media as a sort of WWF smackdown affair, shown in snippets of palin getting in jabs here and there.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Palin doesn't need time to make her sound ridiculous. Her answers start out sounding like gibberish in the first place.
 

thekad

Banned
I'm going to have to agree with Stoney here. I've noticed Brokaw polishing McCain's war medals, but nothing on the level of Schieffer. Brokaw is pretty much straight down the line.
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
Just back from the rally in Jacksonville. Awesome stuff :D

I got kind of annoyed at the little airplanes with there little messages on the back.

One of them said "Florida is McCain and Palin country"

And another said 'raising taxes is not patriotism". It really got the crowd riled up.

My mom got really pissed at this white guy who yelled "Was it worth it?" from his car. :lol

Mommy: "YES IT WAS WORTH IT!" "sheeit"

Mommy: "Why the hell did he even ask that?" "White people get on my nerves sometimes.."

Me: *snicker*
 

Verano

Reads Ace as Lace. May God have mercy on their soul
Seeing how Sarah Palin talks with that "accent", don't you guys think that she sounds like this woman:

martha+generic_08_pq.gif

(Bobby's mom from Bobby's World. Im sure as hell some of you guys watched the show when you were kids.)
 

kevm3

Member
Obama really ripped into McCain. Ireally hope he brings this aggressiveness to the debates. Ialso want Joe to go hard at Palin and if the McCain camp brings up sexism, Biden responds, "If you can't handle lil ol' Joe in a civil debate session, how are you going to handle Putin?"
 

lopaz

Banned
Door2Dawn said:
Just back from the rally in Jacksonville. Awesome stuff :D

I got kind of annoyed at the little airplanes with there little messages on the back.

One of them said "Florida is McCain and Palin country"

And another said 'raising taxes is not patriotism". It really got the crowd riled up.

My mom got really pissed at this white guy who yelled "Was it worth it?" from his car. :lol

Mommy: "YES IT WAS WORTH IT!" "sheeit"

Mommy: "Why the hell did he even ask that?" "White people get on my nerves sometimes.."

Me: *snicker*

racist
 
kevm3 said:
Obama really ripped into McCain. Ireally hope he brings this aggressiveness to the debates. Ialso want Joe to go hard at Palin and if the McCain camp brings up sexism, Biden responds, "If you can't handle lil ol' Joe in a civil debate session, how are you going to handle Putin?"
Biden would deliver the line pretty well too. I hope and think the whole sexism excuse won't work for the debates.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Are they even still playing the sexism card? I don't know why the Obama camp doesn't just call them out on their cowardice for hiding behind the sexism card when they know they've been beaten on the issues.
 
Tyrone Slothrop said:
my main concern is the campaign advisors are feeding palin "you're no jack kennedy" lines to memorize for the debate, and it'll be more covered by the media as a sort of WWF smackdown affair, shown in snippets of palin getting in jabs here and there.

I think it depends on the gaffe/zinger ratio. If she can get through the debate without committing any major gaffe (unlikely), then the one-liners and zingers will mostly get reported. But if she fumbles on at least on more than one occasion, you better believe the media will jump all over it.

Just look at the Charlie Gibson interview. Her "Bush Doctrine" gaffe got a lot more airplay than her zinger about Obama wishing he picked Hilary.

Also I don't think the media has enjoyed being stone-walled in terms of access to Palin. I'm getting the vibe that many are foaming at the mouth to do a "fallen star" narrative. I don't think she can just deliver a few canned zingers to satisfy the media. She needs to substantially limit her turnovers. The media has pretty much stopped making excuses for her.
 
thekad said:
I'm going to have to agree with Stoney here. I've noticed Brokaw polishing McCain's war medals, but nothing on the level of Schieffer. Brokaw is pretty much straight down the line.

Yeah I like Brokaw too. MSNBC's convention coverage was a train wreck. Maybe his centrist analysis appeared "Pro McCain" because the other hosts were so far left in the other direction. I bet Brokaw wanted to crawl under a rock at certain points.

I think David Gregory has a slightly visible conservative slant but he does a good job of keeping it in check. He'll still ask tough questions to conservatives on his show and does let liberals spew talking points unopposed at times. Though I still like him better as a reporter, not a host.
 
http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/?p=1488#more-1488

North Carolina's seasonally-adjusted unemployment rate reached 6.9 percent in August 2008, according to data released today by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. This is the highest monthly unemployment rate recorded in North Carolina since January 2002, and the second-highest monthly rate recorded since 1990.

Although North Carolina's unemployment rate exceeds the national level of 6.1 percent, the state does not have the nation's highest unemployment rate. Michigan has the nation's highest unemployment rate (8.9 percent) followed by Rhode Island (8.5 percent). Among southern states, both Mississippi and South Carolina have higher unemployment rates: 7.7 percent and 7.6 percent, respectively.

As has been the case nationally, North Carolina's labor market has deteriorated steadily since December 2007. Since then, the unemployment rate has increased by 2.2 percentage points. And since the unemployment rate is a flawed measure that undercounts labor under-utilization, the actual number of workers facing employment difficulties is likely higher.

Unemployment in North Carolina now is at a level generally seen only during recessions. The only time this decade when the unemployment rate was higher than 6.9 percent was in January 2002, when the labor market effects of the 2001 recession still were being felt. Even during the recession of the early 1990s, the state unemployment rate never was so high.
 

APF

Member
If the American people "need facts" and not soundbytes why have a debate? Just dispense pamphlets with each party's policy positions and call it a day.
 

Barrett2

Member
sp0rsk said:
Palin doesn't need time to make her sound ridiculous. Her answers start out sounding like gibberish in the first place.

Agreed. Based on her 'oil molecule fungible' statement the other day, I really don't think it will take much to get her off balance. All it will take is one legit question about substantive policy, and the moment she departs from cliche' soundbytes, she will self destruct, regardless of whether she has 60 seconds or 6 minutes to say it in.

In the mean time, however, Obama should make hay with this new development. Have a commercial saying that 'Palin claims to be a maverick, but can't even debate Joe Biden without rigging the game. And she wants us to think she will stand up to Putin?'
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
APF said:
If the American people "need facts" and not soundbytes why have a debate? Just dispense pamphlets with each party's policy positions and call it a day.
that's true.
 
APF said:
If the American people "need facts" and not soundbytes why have a debate? Just dispense pamphlets with each party's policy positions and call it a day.

Have you tried dispensing those things? There's just no arty way of doing it.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
sp0rsk said:
Palin doesn't need time to make her sound ridiculous. Her answers start out sounding like gibberish in the first place.

Disagree.

She should be able to hit her marks, giving prefab answers without worrying whether they address the questions she's asked or whether they're even true. In a debate format without opportunities for follow-up questions, that's a useful skill to have.
 

Gantz

Banned
Verano said:
Seeing how Sarah Palin talks with that "accent", don't you guys think that she sounds like this woman:

martha+generic_08_pq.gif

(Bobby's mom from Bobby's World. Im sure as hell some of you guys watched the show when you were kids.)

kind of, but I think she sounds more like Mrs. Poole from the Hogan Family :lol

edie_mcclurg.jpg
 
The Chosen One said:
Yeah I like Brokaw too. MSNBC's convention coverage was a train wreck. Maybe his centrist analysis appeared "Pro McCain" because the other hosts were so far left in the other direction. I bet Brokaw wanted to crawl under a rock at certain points.

I think David Gregory has a slightly visible conservative slant but he does a good job of keeping it in check. He'll still ask tough questions to conservatives on his show and does let liberals spew talking points unopposed at times. Though I still like him better as a reporter, not a host.

I never followed Brokaw much until I saw more of him during the primaries. He seemed pretty objective at that point and so I guess I expected the same from him as we got into GE mode. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case. I agree though. MSNBC's convention coverage was a disaster. Keith O. just isn't going to be objective. His bias is upfront though so his antics don't surprise me. I have a problem with those who claim to be objective and fail at it. Brokaw on MTP is terrible and during the convention he slanted right as far as I'm concerned. On his show, Gregory does slant right. When he's not hosting and just reporting he does seem more objective.
 

APF

Member
Debates are theatrics, nothing more. Their effect is not educational; no one actually answers the questions they're asked, they answer the questions they wanted to hear. Every once in a while, someone recites a quip they rehearsed for days previous, in order to ride on Bentsen's coattails. Otherwise, debates are simply prearranged opportunities to make a gaffe. Someone who is seen as having the cards against them not making a gaffe will be seen as impressive and rising to the occasion, and someone who is seen as being the smarter more aggressive or better debater needs to check every single one of their insticts because they'll be judged under a more powerful microscope. This means that in reality, the people who are seen as the underdog are actually the uh overdog or whatever.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
APF said:
Debates are theatrics, nothing more. Their effect is not educational; no one actually answers the questions they're asked, they answer the questions they wanted to hear. Every once in a while, someone recites a quip they rehearsed for days previous, in order to ride on Bentsen's coattails. Otherwise, debates are simply prearranged opportunities to make a gaffe. Someone who is seen as having the cards against them not making a gaffe will be seen as impressive and rising to the occasion, and someone who is seen as being the smarter more aggressive or better debater needs to check every single one of their insticts because they'll be judged under a more powerful microscope. This means that in reality, the people who are seen as the underdog are actually the uh overdog or whatever.


You're describing the mean precisely, however, we watch them to see the over/under.
 
APF said:
Debates are theatrics, nothing more. Their effect is not educational; no one actually answers the questions they're asked, they answer the questions they wanted to hear. Every once in a while, someone recites a quip they rehearsed for days previous, in order to ride on Bentsen's coattails. Otherwise, debates are simply prearranged opportunities to make a gaffe. Someone who is seen as having the cards against them not making a gaffe will be seen as impressive and rising to the occasion, and someone who is seen as being the smarter more aggressive or better debater needs to check every single one of their insticts because they'll be judged under a more powerful microscope. This means that in reality, the people who are seen as the underdog are actually the uh overdog or whatever.

There is a lot of truth in what you say but personally I do find political debates to be a useful gauge of their stated policies and ideologies at conflict. It is an exercise in displaying knowledge and defending or attacking competing knowledge even if these aren't exactly the great debates of the past before TV made a lot of superficialities far more important. The fact that spin and boxing style analysis have lowered the process doesn't mean something can't be garnered from them.
 

Socreges

Banned
APF said:
Debates are theatrics, nothing more. Their effect is not educational; no one actually answers the questions they're asked, they answer the questions they wanted to hear. Every once in a while, someone recites a quip they rehearsed for days previous, in order to ride on Bentsen's coattails. Otherwise, debates are simply prearranged opportunities to make a gaffe. Someone who is seen as having the cards against them not making a gaffe will be seen as impressive and rising to the occasion, and someone who is seen as being the smarter more aggressive or better debater needs to check every single one of their insticts because they'll be judged under a more powerful microscope. This means that in reality, the people who are seen as the underdog are actually the uh overdog or whatever.
this is true to some degree, but there is still enough room for content, particularly if one opponent calls the other on their theatrics. i think obama has a unique capacity to make mccain very uncomfortable
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom