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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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for ppl who've been involved in politics longer than I... did clinton's late term mishap (Monica) perhaps damage the out look on the whole democratic party? Helping ushering this stupid age of Repubs being all about values, despite constant examples proving otherwise.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Byakuya769 said:
for ppl who've been involved in politics longer than I... did clinton's late term mishap (Monica) perhaps damage the out look on the whole democratic party? Helping ushering this stupid age of Repubs being all about values, despite constant examples proving otherwise.
Clinton's failing was making the job look easy. I have to admit thinking in 2000 that even if Bush or Gore were lousy we could just vote them out four years later without a problem.
Saint Gregory said:
I'm glad I'm someone's favorite. My parents told me that their favorite Gaffer is Drinky :'(
Are you serious? :lol
 
The Bush/Palin comparisons are extremely apt; it's amazing to me that in a campaign where "change" has become a keyword even on the McCain stump people are being asked to vote for a candidate who is Bush 2.0 in almost every regard.

The whole thing reminds me of Apple's iPod sales strategy. The internal guts of the product are the same but it's been given an attractive cosmetic revamp so people will be seduced into buying the same product all over again.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Gary Whitta said:
The Bush/Palin comparisons are extremely apt; it's amazing to me that in a campaign where "change" has become a keyword even on the McCain stump people are being asked to vote for a candidate who is Bush 2.0 in almost every regard.
Yeah, Bush/McCain comparisons are ones of policy and support in spite of their obviously different backgrounds, but Palin has the same unpreparedness, the same ability to dissemble, the same wanton and unapologetic corruption, and the exact same loyalty-uber-alles attitude towards authority.


Never. I don't visit the OT much... you'll get used to it ;)
Then again, how do you know he isn't their favorite? He's just that good, you know.
 

AniHawk

Member
I hope this time the Democrats can outnumber the Republicans in states where Democrats outnumber Republicans. Was Democrat turnout lower in 2004 than expected? I thought Republican turnout was higher than expected. I'm worried it'll happen again in every single battleground state.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Gary Whitta said:
The Bush/Palin comparisons are extremely apt; it's amazing to me that in a campaign where "change" has become a keyword even on the McCain stump people are being asked to vote for a candidate who is Bush 2.0 in almost every regard.

The whole thing reminds me of Apple's iPod sales strategy. The internal guts of the product are the same but it's been given an attractive cosmetic revamp so people will be seduced into buying the same product all over again.

Republicans believe that saying the word change makes it true, and that they don't actually have to do anything to back it up once they've said it.

Sadly, most voters think so too... :( I love America, but I really really dislike a lot of its people.
 
Saint Gregory said:
Seriously. Now middle America thinks anyone off the street can do it.

haha, well except top harvard law grads

AniHawk said:
I hope this time the Democrats can outnumber the Republicans in states where Democrats outnumber Republicans. Was Democrat turnout lower in 2004 than expected? I thought Republican turnout was higher than expected. I'm worried it'll happen again in every single battleground state.

I know it's serious business down here in florida, and they are extremely serious about getting the registered voter numbers down pat. I volunteered today and we're really aiming for a margin well ahead of republicans down here.. and so far doing a good job of getting it done.

Only thing that bothers me is that I run into republicans who don't need to hear a word I have to say cause they're set on mccain (and too many damn independents as well), but I'll run into democrats who are wavering on Obama cause they don't like biden.. or other stupid shit like that.

I mean do they realize what the alternative is!?!
 

mj1108

Member
Saint Gregory said:
I've been listening to that all week at work too. I can't help but think "Aren't these the same people who said that they couldn't support Obama because they didn't "know" him? Yet here comes this woman that no one has ever seen or heard of and they immediately all jump on the hype train :/

Good fucking point. Nobody has mentioned this yet.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
mj1108 said:
Good fucking point. Nobody has mentioned this yet.

People decide on issues before they even know what the issue is. All they want to know is "Are they Democrat or Republican?" If they're a Republican, they'll jump over it no matter what. I get the feeling if Obama were Republican they'd LOVE him to death.

It's easier to just put a label on something and then just go with that label than actually, you know, take the time to hear both sides and learn about the issues...
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
RurouniZel said:
People decide on issues before they even know what the issue is. All they want to know is "Are they Democrat or Republican?" If they're a Republican, they'll jump over it no matter what. I get the feeling if Obama were Republican they'd LOVE him to death.

It's easier to just put a label on something and then just go with that label than actually, you know, take the time to hear both sides and learn about the issues...
As I said, "Republicans are authentic, but democrats are not." Why investigate Palin when you can safely take her at face value?
 

AniHawk

Member
Byakuya769 said:
I know it's serious business down here in florida, and they are extremely serious about getting the registered voter numbers down pat. I volunteered today and we're really aiming for a margin well ahead of republicans down here.. and so far doing a good job of getting it done.

Only thing that bothers me is that I run into republicans who don't need to hear a word I have to say cause they're set on mccain (and too many damn independents as well), but I'll run into democrats who are wavering on Obama cause they don't like biden.. or other stupid shit like that.

I mean do they realize what the alternative is!?!

My god that's sad. I'm going to go out and register voters in a couple weeks. It's Southern California, and the state's going blue, but I figure a few more Democrats won't hurt. Plus, maybe people will open their eyes and oust Dreier. Doubt it, but worth a shot.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Trurl said:
Wait, he made it up?

What the fuck was this guy thinking? There is no way he wouldn't have been caught.


EDIT: After thinking for a bit I can't help but to feel really naive for my initial reaction.

The best part is, this shitface will most likely still have his job.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Hitokage said:
As I said, "Republicans are authentic, but democrats are not." Why investigate Palin when you can safely take her at face value?

Right, because, you know, investigating her might just prove that she'd be a horrible person to put in the White House.

We don't want that though. We want to love her for no other reason except the fact that she's McCain's VP.
 

Rur0ni

Member
Judging by the numbers, I feel fine about November... except for election fraud (from voter caging to ill programmed machines...) Been reading a lot about it... :\
 
Or today I met this joker who was like "yea my wife is registered and will vote obama... I'm for obama too"

"great would you like to register?"

"nah.. I don't really see myself driving to the polls (while slurping on a fucking popsicle (30 y/o))"

"Well the campaign hq will mail in your registration for you, and you can fill out an absentee ballot form and they'll just mail the ballot to you for you to mail back in. And I'll mail all your registration forms."

"really????..............
...........
........... ...
well no, not today, but I hope he really wins"

WTF!
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
maximum360 said:
Reprimanded on Fox = paid vacation and a raise when he returns.

The most interesting thing about the elections this year will be to see what direction Fox takes when Obama wins (and especially if he wins big). Will they try to go somewhat neutral (outside of Hannity and company) or will there just be a steady stream of attacks on Obama as usual? I think NY Times had a story on this a while ago saying that if Obama wins this is the end of the conservative era (of sorts).

Their mission will probably be to get him impeached somehow.
 

Rugasuki

Member
Cloudy said:
quote it. I'm too lazy to register

I didn't have to register, but here is a pretty good section of it. It's a very long piece.

McCain’s address, though largely a repetitive slew of stump-speech lines and worn G.O.P. orthodoxy, reminded us of what we once liked about the guy: his aspirations to bipartisanship, his heroic service in Vietnam, his twinkle. He took his (often inaccurate) swipes at Obama, but, in winning contrast to Palin and Rudy Giuliani, he wasn’t smug or nasty.

The only problem, of course, is that the entire thing was a sham.

As is nakedly evident, the speech’s central argument, that the 72-year-old McCain will magically morph into a powerful change agent as president, is a non sequitur. In his 26 years in Washington, most of it with a Republican in the White House and roughly half of it with Republicans in charge of Congress, he was better at lecturing his party about reform than leading a reform movement. G.O.P. corruption and governmental dysfunction only grew. So did his cynical flip-flops on the most destructive policies of the president who remained nameless Thursday night. (In the G.O.P., Bush love is now the second most popular love that dare not speak its name.)

Even more fraudulent, if that’s possible, is the contrast between McCain’s platonic presentation of his personal code of honor and the man he has become. He always puts his country first, he told us: “I’ve been called a maverick.” If there was any doubt that that McCain has fled, confirmation arrived with his last-minute embrace of Sarah Palin.

We still don’t know a lot about Palin except that she’s better at delivering a speech than McCain and that she defends her own pregnant daughter’s right to privacy even as she would have the government intrude to police the reproductive choices of all other women. Most of the rest of the biography supplied by her and the McCain camp is fiction.

She didn’t say “no thanks” to the “Bridge to Nowhere” until after Congress had already abandoned it but given Alaska a blank check for $223 million in taxpayers’ money anyway. Far from rejecting federal pork, she hired lobbyists to secure her town a disproportionate share of earmarks ($1,000 per resident in 2002, 20 times the per capita average in other states). Though McCain claimed “she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities,” she has never issued a single command as head of the Alaska National Guard. As for her “executive experience” as mayor, she told her hometown paper in Wasilla, Alaska, in 1996, the year of her election: “It’s not rocket science. It’s $6 million and 53 employees.” Her much-advertised crusade against officials abusing their office is now compromised by a bipartisan ethics investigation into charges that she did the same.

How long before we learn she never shot a moose?

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/opinion/07rich.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
 
Rugasuki said:
This is a pretty good Op-Ed piece. It covers many of the issues that have come to light regarding Palin and McCain. Would make a nice summary piece to show people if they won't immediately discount it for being written in the New York Times.

"Palin and McCain’s Shotgun Marriage"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/opinion/07rich.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

That was an excellent read... too bad no one who actually needs to read it will ever see it.

Any way we can get that acticle hacked into the Fox News website?
 

MaddenNFL64

Member
Ya, i'm feeling good about November too. It's going to be close as usual, but Obama's grass roots organization is the best in politics atm.
 

Kolgar

Member
speculawyer said:
Yeah, quite old. That article doesn't hit on the real scandal aspects that have surfaced lately:
1) McCain has repeatedly been saying she sold it on eBay (No, but so what.) for a profit! (that's a lie.)
2) This is the one that needs more investigation . . . it was eventually sold at far below the asking price to a person that contributed to both Palin and the Republican Speaker of the Alaskan Senate who finalized the deal. That smells. But it is really only scandalous if it was sold at below fair market value . . . and that isn't easy to determine.

I'm behind, but it was revealed right away that the jet did not "sell" on eBay, which is why Palin said, "I put it on eBay."

That said, this thread is way too far left for me, so have fun, everyone. I'm undecided in this race, but jeez.

edit: This last was not directed at speculawyer in particular. It's an overall observation.
 

Cloudy

Banned
McCain has repeatedly been saying she sold it on eBay (No, but so what.) for a profit! (that's a lie.)

I just saw this on Youtube and maybe McCain is just confused. Hell, maybe Palin should be at the top of the ticket. She may be a crazy right-wing fundamentalist but McCain is clearly losing it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaId-vhbzds

Maybe there should be an age-limit to run for Prez? That is fukkin scary..
 

AniHawk

Member
Kolgar said:
I'm behind, but it was revealed right away that the jet did not "sell" on eBay, which is why Palin said, "I put it on eBay."

Except McCain said it did sell on ebay, for a profit.

Not that I think this is a big deal. Not as big a deal as the more serious charges of corruption in Alaska. With her being so far to the right, I don't know how any independent still be undecided.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
OuterWorldVoice said:

Wow..worth reading. Forgive my language, but she really sounds like an authentic, grade A b****.

And Jesus Christ at that youtube video. I'm inclined to feel pity for the guy. Why did he feel the need to do another presidential run? He should just chill and retire in comfort. The thought that we may have a president that would be a bigger embarrassment than Bush is mind-blowing.
 
Kolgar said:
I'm behind, but it was revealed right away that the jet did not "sell" on eBay, which is why Palin said, "I put it on eBay."

That said, this thread is way too far left for me, so have fun, everyone. I'm undecided in this race, but jeez.

edit: This last was not directed at speculawyer in particular. It's an overall observation.

Revealed by whom? I didn't find out until I started reading this thread.

She could have just said that she sold the jet, why mention eBay at all if that's not how it was sold in the end? Clearly they were looking for something that would give them some bang for the buck so don't pretend that it was anything else.

And clearly fact checking is a lefty activity now...
 

AniHawk

Member
The day Palin took office, she told Stambaugh she wanted him to stay on provided he would support her as mayor, his notes say. He agreed. She also asked him to drop the issue of bar hours. He agreed to that, too. On this day, Palin fired the city's museum director, one of the department heads.

Ten days later, Palin wrote to all the department heads, including Stambaugh, asking for letters of resignation. She said she would then decide which to accept. When Stambaugh declined to provide one — pointing to his contract — Palin replied in a letter: "I will expect your loyalty."

Stambaugh was 6-foot-2, 240 pounds. Because he'd heard that Palin had felt intimidated by him during a meeting, he made sure to sit when talking with her, and to use a soothing voice. By early December, things had calmed down, and Stambaugh felt the threat of being fired had passed.

From now on, the memo said, Palin wanted each department head to send her a weekly report, due Friday, with an "update of activities" and "at least two positive examples of work that was started, how we helped the public, how we saved the City money, how we helped the state, how we helped Uncle Sam, how we made operations run smoother, or safer, or more efficient."

"Please use numbers when appropriate," she wrote, adding: "Staff, I believe if we look for the positive, that is what we will ultimately find. Conversely, look for the negative and you'll find that, too. ... Wasilla has tremendous assets and opportunities and we can all choose to be a part of contributing to the improvement of our community ... or not. I encourage you to choose the prior because the train is a'moving forward!"

"I realize this is an added chore, but at least it's a positive one!" she wrote.

Stambaugh already provided daily reports. He already provided a monthly report. He already attended staff meetings with Palin and other department heads every second and fourth Tuesday at 10 a.m.

...

Stambaugh kept the reports coming. But on Jan. 30, he was on the phone with the town's librarian — who said she'd just been fired — when an assistant of Palin's walked up and gave Stambaugh an envelope. Inside was a letter from Palin, saying Stambaugh, too, was fired.

"I do not feel I have your full support in my efforts to govern the City of Wasilla," she wrote.

After notifying the librarian that she was fired, Palin backtracked and decided to keep her on. Palin had twice asked this librarian what she thought about banning books, to which the librarian responded it was a lousy idea, one she wouldn't go along with. Later, Palin told the local paper that any questions she'd raised about censorship were only "rhetorical."

Palin put in place what the local paper called a gag order, prohibiting top city employees from talking to reporters unless she cleared it first.

"Wasilla residents have been subjected to attempts to unlawfully appoint council members, statements that have been shown to be patently untrue, unrepentant backpedaling, and incessant whining that her only enemies are the press and a few disgruntled supporters of Mayor Stein. ... Palin promised to change the status quo, but at every turn we find hints of cronyism and political maneuvering. We see a woman who has long since surrendered her ideals to a political machine."

The newspaper's readers chimed in. "Mayor Sarah Palin behaves like a petulant, spoiled teenager," wrote a woman who ran a flower shop. A tool-and-die maker defended Palin, writing, "We didn't want 'business as usual.' "

Stambaugh's wrongful-termination lawsuit was thrown out in 2000 by a federal judge, who said that even if Palin's reasons for firing him were political, she had that right.

Sounds like a power-hungry madwoman. She really scares me.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Initially we assumed Palin would be the puppet. The more I read about her, the more it seems it will be the other way around.
 

AniHawk

Member
Slurpy said:
Initially we assumed Palin would be the puppet. The more I read about her, the more it seems it will be the other way around.

Yeah. Instead of being Bush III, it's Bush/Cheney III

I'm concerned she'd do her best to turn the US into something of a police state, the way she goes off on those not loyal to her. I thought I might have been stepping over the line when I called her an opportunist the other night, but she's definitely that and more.
 

Fatalah

Member
I need some help.

In looking at the change in voter registration data chart, my friend asked me "So how is this different from any other year? There's always a new crop of young people eligible to vote, and young people are liberally minded."


So, does he have a valid point? Are these high figures for the Dems empty numbers?
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Byakuya769 said:
You should have reminded him how many votes Gore lost by in the final count, and how his lazy ass might be one of the handful who lets Obama lose.


GhaleonEB said:
Yeah. It's hard to imagine it, but Palin would be a step backwards right now.

Somehow.
15071477.JPG

Not exactly new, you know...
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/opinion/07rich.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

“This election is not about issues” so much as the candidates’ images, said the McCain campaign manager, Davis, in one of the season’s most notable pronouncements. Going into the Republican convention, we thought we knew what he meant: the McCain strategy is about tearing down Obama. But last week made clear that the McCain campaign will be equally ruthless about deflecting attention from its own candidate’s deterioration.

What was most striking about McCain’s acceptance speech is that it had almost nothing in common with the strident right-wing convention that preceded it. We were pointedly given a rerun of McCain 2000 — cobbled together from scraps of the old Straight Talk repertory. The ensuing tedium was in all likelihood intentional. It’s in the campaign’s interest that we nod off and assume McCain is unchanged in 2008.

That’s why the Palin choice was brilliant politics — not because it rallied the G.O.P.’s shrinking religious-right base. America loves nothing more than a new celebrity face, and the talking heads marched in lock step last week to proclaim her a star. Palin is a high-energy distraction from the top of the ticket, even if the provenance of her stardom is in itself a reflection of exactly what’s frightening about the top of the ticket.

By hurling charges of sexism and elitism at any easily cowed journalist who raises a question about Palin, McCain operatives are hoping to ensure that whatever happened in Alaska with Sarah Palin stays in Alaska. Given how little vetting McCain himself has received this year — and that only 58 days remain until Nov. 4 — they just might pull it off.
 

AniHawk

Member
Fatalah said:
I need some help.

In looking at the change in voter registration data chart, my friend asked me "So how is this different from any other year? There's always a new crop of young people eligible to vote, and young people are liberally minded."


So, does he have a valid point? Are these high figures for the Dems empty numbers?

I'm not so sure. Iowa went to Bush sorta weakly, and Obama's pretty much turned it solid blue. I think places like CO and NV are gonna be the ones to watch out for. Maybe Ohio too. I'm crossing my fingers for Ohio, but it looks easier in NV and CO.
 

Zeliard

Member
AniHawk said:
I'm not so sure. Iowa went to Bush sorta weakly, and Obama's pretty much turned it solid blue. I think places like CO and NV are gonna be the ones to watch out for. Maybe Ohio too. I'm crossing my fingers for Ohio, but it looks easier in NV and CO.

I'm hearing that Colorado is probably gonna go blue this time around.
 

AniHawk

Member
Zeliard said:
I'm hearing that Colorado is probably gonna go blue this time around.

It sure looks that way. I'd like to see some more registration numbers post-June. It was getting pretty close and fivethirtyeight.com has it pretty blue right now.

I'm kinda wondering about Montana and North Dakota at this point too.
 

Fatalah

Member
Is there a way to find out how many people are leaving the Republican party? That would be a good indicator of how well the Dems are doing.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
AniHawk said:
I'm not so sure. Iowa went to Bush sorta weakly, and Obama's pretty much turned it solid blue. I think places like CO and NV are gonna be the ones to watch out for. Maybe Ohio too. I'm crossing my fingers for Ohio, but it looks easier in NV and CO.
So far it seems like Kerry plus Iowa and New Mexico are a lock. Beyond that Obama needs only 6 more electoral votes, and he has a realistic chance of winning Nevada(5), Colorado(9), Ohio(20), and Virginia(13). Other states can also be considered to be in-play, but will require improvement over the next two months.
 

AniHawk

Member
Hitokage said:
So far it seems like Kerry plus Iowa and New Mexico are a lock. Beyond that Obama needs only 6 more electoral votes, and he has a realistic chance of winning Nevada(5), Colorado(9), Ohio(20), and Virginia(13). Other states can also be considered to be in-play, but will require improvement over the next two months.

I'm worried about CO's evangelical population putting a stop to the Democrat's progress in the state. Elsewhere, I'm worried that good ol' disenfranchisement will be in play to keep black people from casting their votes somehow. I put nothing past the GOP these days.
 
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