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[Tyrone Slothrop]

PANIX

 

[Fatalah]

Everything is going to be okay.

I hope so, I really do hope so.

All of us here up late at night thinking about this campaign makes me really share a special comradery with you guys. It's like a support group.

Although, I always felt like Obama's campaign was being run so intelligently--that it was in good hands and his people would make the right decisions to win this election. That was until Palin was picked. It's as if the Obama camp has stalled and is trying to figure out how to handle her.

I really want Palin to be exposed for what she is--- an unfit pick for VP. I know that Obama camp will do it, but how long will it take?

I'm going to bed.

 

[AniHawk]

http://www.elections.colorado.gov/DDefault.aspx?tid=480&vmid=132

CO numbers in 04 (active voters):

As of October 27, 2004:
DEM: 947,866
REP: 1,125,374
Unaffiliated: 1,028,886

As of July 31, 2008:
DEM: 737,565
REP: 795,949
Unaffiliated: 681,639

Overall, there are less registered voters, active and inactive across the board in Colorado since 2004, but Republicans took the biggest hit (the inactive unaffiliated number is really high in 2008).

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Although, I always felt like Obama's campaign was being run so intelligently--that it was in good hands and his people would make the right decisions to win this election. That was until Palin was picked. It's as if the Obama camp has stalled and is trying to figure out how to handle her.

i think you'll see that they already are. they're jabbing her sparingly, trying to pivot the attacks and attention to mccain, whom they do know how to deal with. not to say the obama folks aren't a bit flustered, though.

 

[Askia47]

Everyone stop worrying, your only spreading your fear and making others nervous. Relax a little bit, we still have weeks to go. Always think positive!

 

[Zeliard]

Although, I always felt like Obama's campaign was being run so intelligently--that it was in good hands and his people would make the right decisions to win this election. That was until Palin was picked. It's as if the Obama camp has stalled and is trying to figure out how to handle her..

We just have to wait a little bit longer.

He'll make her look like the fucking joke that she is. His face should be frozen in that expression for the entirety of the VP debates, having to lower himself to engage in discourse with the likes of Palin. "What is this shit?"

 

[maharg]

I really want Palin to be exposed for what she is--- an unfit pick for VP. I know that Obama camp will do it, but how long will it take?

To a large extent, I think they're doing the exact right thing. Making McCain and Palin expose themselves as being unfit. Imo, they're both going to get destroyed in the debates.

 

[soul creator]

What the fuck? How does something like that even happen? I mean, how is that even allowed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

(1) 2004 election: A Minnesota elector, pledged for Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards, cast his or her presidential vote for John Ewards [sic], apparently accidentally. (All of Minnesota's electors cast their vice presidential ballots for John Edwards.) Minnesota's electors cast secret ballots, so unless one of the electors claims responsibility, it is unlikely that the identity of the faithless elector will ever be known. As a result of this incident, Minnesota Statutes were amended to provide for public balloting of the electors' votes and invalidation of a vote cast for someone other than the candidate the elector is pledged to.

 

[Chiggs]

According to 538, Mccain will likely today be up by a few points on Gallup

Zogby showing something similar:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548

From John Zogby himself:

"Clearly, Palin is helping the McCain ticket. She has high favorability numbers, and has unified the Republican Party. The striking thing here in this poll is that McCain has pulled ahead among Catholics by double-digits. On the other hand, Palin is not helping with likely voting women who are not aligned with either political party. The undecided independent women voters decreased this week from 15% to 7%, but those women went to Obama. Palin is also helping among men, conservatives, notably with suburban and rural voters, and with frequent Wal-Mart shoppers, who tend to be "values" voters who like a good value for their money."

 

[Trurl]

Also, seeing the unsure Republicans walk around with a gleam in their eyes when Sarah Palin was announced, because "it was a really smart choice." Why? She's going to capture all those upset Clinton voters, don't you know.

I live in a small conservative Ohio town (being mayor is no more of a qualification than being mayor of Wasilla) and the few Hillary supporters I know have switched over to Obama and actually resent the idea that women should vote for Sarah Palin just because she is a chick. Anecdotal evidence, but whatever.

My biggest fear is that the youth vote won't show up. Basically all of my friends say they want Obama over McCain but only one (besides me) plans to vote for him. One of my friends who voted for Obama in the primary (and was actually incredulous that I voted for Hillary) now says that there is a very good chance she will not vote for Obama, when I pressed her to explain why she said that she is not sure she wants to vote for someone she does not support "110%," As much as I wanted to tell her that that was stupid I decided to drop it. Another one of my friends plans to vote for Cynthia McKinney, and after that it's just a long list of people who say they want Obama but have no intention of voting.

So that's a whole slew of potential Obama voters from my peers, but only one actual committed voter besides me. Youth sucks.

 

[AniHawk]

To a large extent, I think they're doing the exact right thing. Making McCain and Palin expose themselves as being unfit. Imo, they're both going to get destroyed in the debates.

Oh I think they'll both be torn to shreds, but I doubt the media will say so. McCain will give a soundbite and short answers that the media loves, and Palin will do 'better than expected' while the GOP attacks Biden for being sexist, win or lose.

 

[syllogism]

Zogby showing something similar:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548

From John Zogby himself:

That's zogby interactive online poll so...

 

[Chiggs]

:lol

Bill Kristol was pretty complimentary of that Obama speech, actually.

.

Yeah, okay. And I suppose the complete lack of perspective in this thread is entirely reasonable?

 

[Zeliard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

That's wonderful. If Obama loses because of some moronic voting error, especially if purposeful, then there is going to be some hell to pay.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Sarah Palin is Sean Avery?!?

I thought the exact same thing when reading that article.

 

[mj1108]

Oh I think they'll both be torn to shreds, but I doubt the media will say so. McCain will give a soundbite and short answers that the media loves, and Palin will do 'better than expected' while the GOP attacks Biden for being sexist, win or lose.

I expect that if Biden does tear her to shreds (which I expect), the GOP spin artists will start crying sexism saying that Biden was too rough on her.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

while the GOP attacks Biden for being sexist, win or lose.

i actually don't think anybody'll accuse biden of being sexist. the republicans can act appalled and say that, but i really doubt anybody will take the bait. people cite hillary in the primaries for how sexisim came into to play but i think it was, in reality, a non-issue on both the accuser's and accused's sides. if biden's on the top of his game, he'll do great. though the media may just be ambivalent about it, like they were about his great performance in the primaries.

what i am worried about, just a little, is biden has the tendency to be emotional. and i wouldn't put it past him to get a little carried away if palin harps on him with too much nonsense.

 

[Chiggs]

I don't wish ill of John McCain, but I'm not sure the potential reality of "President Palin" is striking people as clearly as it should.

Well, if it makes you feel better, she'd be impeached before she decided to go Fahrenheit 451 on libraries and push creationism into schools.

 

[Zeliard]

Oh I think they'll both be torn to shreds, but I doubt the media will say so. McCain will give a soundbite and short answers that the media loves, and Palin will do 'better than expected' while the GOP attacks Biden for being sexist, win or lose.

That in particular is so damn true. That is exactly what will likely happen. Hopefully Biden destroys her rather unequivocally, so as to make even that an unlikely talking point.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, if it makes you feel better, she'd be impeached before she decided to go Fahrenheit 451 on libraries and push creationism into schools.

On the other hand, if the GOP could trick the American people three times in a row,

 

[mj1108]

That in particular is so damn true. That is exactly what will likely happen. Hopefully Biden destroys her rather unequivocally, so as to make even that an unlikely talking point.

For Fox News, all she has to do is show up, mention "hockey mom", "Alaska" and "Maverick" and they'll say she did "Better than expected".

On the other hand, if the GOP could trick the American people three times in a row,

They're already trying that, but with Palin. God forbid the GOP wins in November....

 

[Trurl]

That in particular is so damn true. That is exactly what will likely happen. Hopefully Biden destroys her rather unequivocally, so as to make even that an unlikely talking point.

Quick, everyone raise their expectations of Palin!

 

[AniHawk]

Looking back at the 2004 Election thread... I think I blocked most of that out.

Canada, I hope you have room for a lot of sane people.

53% to 47% Bush in Ohio 8% reporting.

haha this reminds me of the soda/car/rabbit race at halftime at sporting events with the back and forth....


+1 Bush
+1 Obama

the mrs
+1 Kerry(=P)
+1 Obama

not that it mattered in IL


GO BUSH!

WTF.

"That so many people are stupid. Really, really stupid. Kerry is no saint, but if you can't see he's a better option than Bush, there's a problem."

Fuck you for calling Bush supporters stupid. I have a masters in mechanical engineering with a 4.0 GPA. I voted for Bush.

I'm going to go and hijack a helicopter, steal a rocket launcher, and blow shit up to let some anger out.

Then I think I'll play GTA: San Andreas.

CO, NM, WI, MI, OH, NH, FL all currently leaning towards Bush. Not good, not good at all.

WHAT DO PEOPLE SEE IN THIS GUY.

Living in this country just got even more dangerous for anyone with any kind of intelligence or dissenting opinion. I'm seriously so angry that I don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight.

*sigh*, any Canadian GAers need a roomie?

Yep, *sigh* indeed. I wasn't really that emotionally invested in Kerry's campaign, though I deeply wanted Bush out of there. This time I need to see Obama win. I'm not sure what I'll do if he doesn't.

 

[Zeliard]

AniHawk, stop unearthing horrendous memories.

I wasn't on this forum then, but I was pretty much saying the exact same things elsewhere. That was a horrible day. Let's not have another one.

 

[soul creator]

:lol @ Xenon voting for Bush and Obama

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Looking back at the 2004 Election thread... I think I blocked most of that out.

WTF.

Yep, *sigh* indeed. I wasn't really that emotionally invested in Kerry's campaign, though I deeply wanted Bush out of there. This time I need to see Obama win. I'm not sure what I'll do if he doesn't.

There will be blood.

 

[devilhawk]

I hope you guys don't get your hopes to high on the vp debate. Traditionally, it never really is much of a factor.

 

[M3wThr33]

Yep, *sigh* indeed. I wasn't really that emotionally invested in Kerry's campaign, though I deeply wanted Bush out of there. This time I need to see Obama win. I'm not sure what I'll do if he doesn't.

Probably watch in shock as the economy tumbles further. Not based on actual politics or results, mind you, but simply propelled by consumer depression of 4 more years of failed policies and hand outs.

 

[devilhawk]

Yep, *sigh* indeed. I wasn't really that emotionally invested in Kerry's campaign, though I deeply wanted Bush out of there. This time I need to see Obama win. I'm not sure what I'll do if he doesn't.

This is exactly why Bush won in 04. You cannot win an anti-campaign. People actually have to want you in there.

 

[echoshifting]

So how is everyone enjoying the mass hysterical panic and premature blues in this thread

 

[kevm3]

Why don't we compile a series of "Palin and McCain" gaffes in youtube videos and get together to spread them around? Also compile the Obama and Biden policy videos and spread those around too. It's a sort of 'net campaign' if you will.

 

[devilhawk]

This is a bit OT but does anyone else find Kathleen Sebelius kind of hawt for an old chick? :lol

Was reading Huffington Post and saw her pic in an article

Total GILF *runs*

Have met her. NOT HOT.

 

[Chrono]

To all the people earlier in this thread saying things would've been very different if Gore was elected, and that this election matters a lot, what do you think of Chomsky? Many here on GAF love him, and I saw a youtube video of him just recently going on about how there's no difference between the parties and that the American people knew this and that's why they didn't care for voting in the 2000 election. You'd think for someone so smart he'd learn to recognize stupidity, though it must be harder when he's a fucking moron himself.

I've been listening to that all week at work too. I can't help but think "Aren't these the same people who said that they couldn't support Obama because they didn't "know" him? Yet here comes this woman that no one has ever seen or heard of and they immediately all jump on the hype train :/

Palin is as white and dumb as they are.

I don't really know Barack Obama didn't actually mean that they didn't know Barack Obama.

It's really very transparent but I guess it's nicer for liberals to assume they're just careful voters scared of making the wrong vote after oh so much critical thinking and research.

 

[devilhawk]

To all the people earlier in this thread saying things would've been very different if Gore was elected, and that this election matters a lot, what do you think of Chomsky? Many here on GAF love him, and I saw a youtube video of him just recently going on about how there's no difference between the parties and that the American people knew this and that's why they didn't care for voting in the 2000 election. You'd think for someone so smart he'd learn to recognize stupidity, though it must be harder when he's a fucking moron himself.

There is some truth to this notion. Part of the problem has to deal with the lobbyist and bureaucrats that run Washington. They don't have a side and they play both sides all the same. That is the depressing part of politics. This really isn't going to change any time soon no matter who is elected.

 

[Barrett2]

To all the people earlier in this thread saying things would've been very different if Gore was elected, and that this election matters a lot, what do you think of Chomsky? Many here on GAF love him, and I saw a youtube video of him just recently going on about how there's no difference between the parties and that the American people knew this and that's why they didn't care for voting in the 2000 election. You'd think for someone so smart he'd learn to recognize stupidity, though it must be harder when he's a fucking moron himself.

I have read quite a few Chomsky books, I also have a degree in International Relations. From my experience, Chomsky becomes much less interesting as you learn more about foreign policy. His books are ok in terms of opening your eyes to some of the more depressing aspects of how the world works, but he is a reductionist, ascribing very simplistic notions of economic gain as the underlying factor behind most foreign policy decisions.

However, in all honesty, the last eight years under Bush really have been so crazy, that I no longer think it is true to say both parties are the same from a policy perspective. Bush really has gone off the deep end with his foreign policy approach & the way he handles the executive agencies, etc., I think you could make an argument that it is necessary to put somebody in office now who will make a drastic u-turn in our nation's direction. In that sense, Obama would be best because he would make a sharper change in policies than McCain would.

I should note, however, that I also think McCain would be much better than Bush. McCain, IMO, is a much more honest person than Bush, and would not be nearly as crooked or crazy as the Bush administration.

 

[Farmboy]

So how is everyone enjoying the mass hysterical panic and premature blues in this thread

It's kinda amusing. I can see why people are worrying about the dynamics. Clearly, the momentum seems to have shifted to McCain for now (though that has happened before, such as right before Houses-gate).

Truth is, McCain should be having his very best days of polling right now, right after his convention and with Palinmania in full swing. That the race is still a toss-up at best is actually good news for Obama. We'll have a clearer picture at the end of this week, when the convention bounces for both parties will have either largely subsided or are revealed to be more long-term.

If McCain is ahead after the debates, though, I'm worrying.

 

[BobLoblaw]

I hope you guys don't get your hopes to high on the vp debate. Traditionally, it never really is much of a factor.

Joke? Of course it'll be a factor. People won't get another chance to see Palin (i.e. Plain) live and on stage until then. All she'll be doing in the mean time is avoiding the press and reading her script. Lotsa "undecideds," partisans, etc. will be watching to see what all the Plain fuss is about. Me? I'll be watching for the lulz.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I should note, however, that I also think McCain would be much better than Bush. McCain, IMO, is a much more honest person than Bush, and would not be nearly as crooked or crazy as the Bush administration.

How honest or non-crazy/crooked do you think McCain really is when he has essentially flip-flopped on everything he used to 'believe' just a short seven years ago? I mean, the guy has sold out to the crazies of his party just to win the election at any cost. If there was any serious hope that he'd just use the religious right's votes to get into the White House and then flip the switch to that ol' maverick moderate Republican McCain of 2000, that died when he made Palin his VP choice at the age of 72.

 

[ShortBus]

What do Republicans do when you take away their teleprompters and pieces of paper?




Oh,...this:
http://www.visualfuturist.com/bushiswired/ :lol

 

[Slurpy]

To a large extent, I think they're doing the exact right thing. Making McCain and Palin expose themselves as being unfit. Imo, they're both going to get destroyed in the debates.

You really think so? Every day there's a new barrage of news pointing as to why she's utterly unfit for the position, exposing new hypocrisies, new lies, new information about her record which contradicts everything she says she is and everything she says she's done. Yet, the polls keep swinging to her favor more and more every day. It's sickening. What makes you think the debates will be any different?

Here's how I see it: Biden will, by any objective measure, destroy her in the debates when it comes to anything resembling issues/knowledge/policy, etc. After the debates we'll get the usual punditry bullshit, with guests and panelists representing republicans and democrats. Democrats will say Biden won, Republicans will obviously say Palin did. The public will listen to these asshats, everyone will believe what they want to believe, the ones who dont know what to believe will be told what to believe, and it will essentially be a wash. There will be very little actual intelligent scrutiny re the debate and regarding issues, but instead we'll get the usual fare of partisan punditry with expected results. Many will fawn over how well 'she held up' against Biden. She may even win some 'gotcha' moments on him. News networks will let republican shills spout their bullshit on air without major challenge, even if she fails spectacularly and epically.

Rinse and repeat for the presidential debates.

Do you honestly think most of those who are supporting McCain/Palin have the potential to have their minds changed by the debates? The answer is no. Palin, like McCain, has shown that she has the same type of invulnerability, the same resilience to reality, that he does- the people who support her don't really give a fuck about the reality of the situation, and aren't susceptible to have their opinion being changed.

Cue some desperate fear-mongering ads from the GOP close to election time, and who knows where we'll be.

Thats my cynical view. History supports this view. Tragically.

 

[Synth_floyd]

She has charisma and that's all you need in politics.

 

[FightyF]

So apparently the GOP got 38.9 million viewers while the Dems fell just short at 38.4 million viewers. Does this have any significance? Was this already discussed?

What seems apparent to me that for the DNC you had Democrats and Independents watching it. For the RNC you had Republicans, Democrats, and Independents watching it.

The idea is simple, instead of defending against the lies and baseless attacks from GOP, attack their lies. Make it stick with the masses that GOP are all liars and slanderers.
Don't make the same mistake Kerry did - just defending against lies and slanders.
Instead, attack the lies - show all the facts and records of all their baseless claims.

Completely agree here.

They have a pretty good idea of who the guy is. They have sent it to their local news stations and to CNN, NBC, FOX, and the rest of the major networks.

How about YouTube? Who knows...it could get a lot of attention?

The thing is, on the web, Obama-haters are very much like that. Now, I've always considered it a radical vocal subset on the web, and perhaps to a large degree it is, but it's just scary to not only see that happen, but for people like the Police dismiss it like it was nothing.

Thats my cynical view. History supports this view. Tragically.

Agreed.

You had the Republican base cheering for Bush when he appeared at the RNC. NOTHING is going to change their minds. They are set in their ways, even when it is abundantly clear that they are wrong (that the invasion of Iraq was unjustified, that the economy is in horrible shape, that no progress is being made on any of the core issues).

The only hope here, is that independents are smarter than that. The hope is that they aren't swayed by things like the exploitation of nationalism, that they aren't swayed by political attacks, that they aren't swayed by baseless allegations.

 

[ViperVisor]

The American Debate: It's little discussed, but Obama's race may be decider

C-SPAN callers are always awesome.

Clinton black lady is now McCain cause Barack has no xp.

Obama will lose because of sexism in his campaign. 18 mil Hillary votes and passed on for VP. And The History channel is running a lot of slavery shows to since Jan. to guilt people into voting for Obama.

Some idiot who didn't turn his TV sound off complained. Do we have to have affirmative action in the polls now?

Black guy told a story of eating dinner at a house with some people that were friendly and his plate was different. A little weird but made they were just short. He forgot his watch and goes back to get it and sees that his plate is in the trash.

Some doofus. 'God is the answer' McCain and Palin are commited Christians. Need to look to God.

 

[kevm3]

You really think so? Every day there's a new barrage of news pointing as to why she's utterly unfit for the position, exposing new hypocrisies, new lies, new information about her record which contradicts everything she says she is and everything she says she's done. Yet, the polls keep swinging to her favor more and more every day. It's sickening. What makes you think the debates will be any different?

Here's how I see it: Biden will, by any objective measure, destroy her in the debates when it comes to anything resembling issues/knowledge/policy, etc. After the debates we'll get the usual punditry bullshit, with guests and panelists representing republicans and democrats. Democrats will say Biden won, Republicans will obviously say Palin did. The public will listen to these asshats, everyone will believe what they want to believe, the ones who dont know what to believe will be told what to believe, and it will essentially be a wash. There will be very little actual intelligent scrutiny re the debate and regarding issues, but instead we'll get the usual fare of partisan punditry with expected results. Many will fawn over how well 'she held up' against Biden. She may even win some 'gotcha' moments on him. News networks will let republican shills spout their bullshit on air without major challenge, even if she fails spectacularly and epically.

Rinse and repeat for the presidential debates.

Do you honestly think most of those who are supporting McCain/Palin have the potential to have their minds changed by the debates? The answer is no. Palin, like McCain, has shown that she has the same type of invulnerability, the same resilience to reality, that he does- the people who support her don't really give a fuck about the reality of the situation, and aren't susceptible to have their opinion being changed.

Cue some desperate fear-mongering ads from the GOP close to election time, and who knows where we'll be.

Thats my cynical view. History supports this view. Tragically.

This is exactly the case... Which is why I say over and over that the Obama camp needs to attack her now while she is in Alaska. All she has to do is be coherent and the media will take clips and most likely make it seem like an even battle. "She held her own against the experienced Joe Biden," etc. etc. I really hope Obama and Biden don't wait. That's one of my biggest peeves with the democrats. They never really attack to finish their opponent off.

 

[devilhawk]

How honest or non-crazy/crooked do you think McCain really is when he has essentially flip-flopped on everything he used to 'believe' just a short seven years ago? I mean, the guy has sold out to the crazies of his party just to win the election at any cost. If there was any serious hope that he'd just use the religious right's votes to get into the White House and then flip the switch to that ol' maverick moderate Republican McCain of 2000, that died when he made Palin his VP choice at the age of 72.

You have the basic idea right but are missing how the idea is put into action. The farthest right of the Republicans vote strictly on social issues. McCain in the past has been moderate on those issues. The social conservatives, which put Bush in office, will stay home if they don't get their attention. If you are any type of conservative wishing to get elected you must pander to the social conservatives as there numbers are much too great.

McCain had attempted to pander to the right before the vp pick. It wasn't working. It was beyond any doubt that if he wanted to win he would have to look to the social right for a vp. This is the result of that plan. Still, Palin does scare a lot of moderates who might just stay home or vote 3rd party.

As far as if McCain keeps his moderate ways if he gets elected, it is hard to guess. There is good chance he might be a decent moderate republican; something we haven't seen in decades. The republican party is in a sad state because of the religious social conservatives. Truly, as an honest very moderate republican, I was hoping to have this election be an Obama landslide (it still could be) so the moderate republicans can take over and get Bush and his cronies out of the party elite so that the party can go back to its roots.

This is like the 3rd or 4th time I have typed something similar in these threads. There really are moderates out there, and they really are decent human beings lol.

 

[HocusPocus]

Palin = Winner!

 

[FightyF]

Palin = Winner!

Winner of what?

 

[stressboy]

Palin = Winner!

Ok thread over guys.. Palin is the winner.

 

[FightyF]

Ok thread over guys.. Palin is the winner.

For a second there I thought I missed a debate. Checked the last few pages (well, moreso, I checked the last 5 before I posted earlier), and didn't see anything.

HocusPocus probably saw a debate we all didn't see. It was in his mind. Palin vs. Jesus. She berated Jesus for being a community worker and said that he doesn't deserve to be king of all kings because he doesn't have the executive experience.

 

[Amir0x]

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008/pick-your-president/

The WP electoral map is now linked to a contest - predict the outcome. IE/Vista is being a bitch and not letting me submit but it's fun to tinker with.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008/pick-your-president/2599/

This is fun.