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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Condoleezza Rice: US would be safe under Obama.

2507735809_e01dfdbede_o.jpg


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNTTI1...0Gn4mVVljzUgSwg

WASHINGTON (AFP) — US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says the nation would be safe under a Barack Obama presidency and that she is ruling out a shot at the vice presidency under either Obama or Republican John McCain.

In an interview with Politico and Yahoo News released Thursday, Rice was asked if she would feel secure with a president Obama.

"Oh, the United States will be fine," she responded. "I think that we are having an important debate about how we keep the country safe," she said, pointing to the Middle East and Iraq.

"Those are important judgments for the American people to make."

Thanks, Ms. Rice.

I guess telling everybody that the country will be safe under Obama should he be elected was a nice gesture and should take some of the sting out of McCain's attacks on Obama's strength (or lack thereof) on national security issues. It doesn't make up for everything else, however.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Gaborn said:
Are you capable of not engaging in personal attacks? Cause I really have no interest in engaging in a pissing matching.
it's snarky (but properly referenced), but we're arguing around in circles. and whenever i bring up the valid critique that you demand some burden of proof while ignoring the need to do so in kind, you bring it back to the voter ID debate that only proves my original point.
 

Gaborn

Member
scorcho said:
it's snarky (but properly referenced), but we're arguing around in circles. and whenever i bring up the valid critique that you demand some burden of proof while ignoring the need to do so in kind, you bring it back to the voter ID debate that only proves my original point.

I'm not asserting that law is unnecessary (or necessary for that matter) though. You're claiming that the law is unnecessary, my claim is that it is not onerous, not unreasonable, and probably a net positive. What data do you want? Do you want me to prove that it is not onerous? I can point to various court decisions that assert as much. I can't prove it is "necessary" because it's impossible to get the data required to do that, but I'm not arguing for it's necessity, I'm arguing for it's REASONABLENESS.
 

Cheebs

Member
Deus Ex Machina said:
Condoleezza Rice: US would be safe under Obama.

2507735809_e01dfdbede_o.jpg


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNTTI1...0Gn4mVVljzUgSwg



Thanks, Ms. Rice.

I guess telling everybody that the country will be safe under Obama should he be elected was a nice gesture and should take some of the sting out of McCain's attacks on Obama's strength (or lack thereof) on national security issues. It doesn't make up for everything else, however.
Condi and Obama are good friends, Obama helped her in 2007 with a crisis about a govt. take over in Africa. She said before if Obama was the nomine she'd have to seriously consider who she would vote for. (Powell said roughly the same thing too)
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
i doubt that comment proves they're good friends. her role of sec. of state doesn't exactly afford her ability to take part in partisan barbs, which includes both outwardly supporting either candidate or affirming the GOP's argument that electing either would somehow be unwise or unsafe for the country.
 
Cheebs said:
Condi and Obama are good friends, Obama helped her in 2007 with a crisis about a govt. take over in Africa. She said before if Obama was the nomine she'd have to seriously consider who she would vote for. (Powell said roughly the same thing too)
Is she republican?
 

Azih

Member
I've noticed Gaborn says 'True' to concede a point but then proceeds as if the point doesn't even exist.

"You want me to prove a negative?"
"It's not a negative"
"True, alas I can't find my data. Anyway poor people don't vote poor people are racists racists don't vote QED"


"How dare you personally attack me!"
"There was no personal attack"
"True but how can he not accept my arguments that are not backed up by any data?"
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Gaborn: It was kind of a mean thing to say, but it's true.

Your response was all non-disprovable assertions and random factoids without much sense of importance (Thomas Eagleton as a major factor in turnout?) or fact (Nixon wasn't popular?) or comprehensiveness (we're talking the 68 elections and nobody's said "Southern Strategy" yet?).


Look, American political science has dedicated a few resources to looking at the effects of race and racial attitudes on voting patterns over the years. If the proposition "racists don't vote" is true, there should be at least some scholarship pointing in that direction.

If you turn up something in the way of empirical data or academic study that backs your theory, please share it with the rest of us. If you don't, please consider there's a reason.
 
Dax01 said:
Is she republican?

There should be a litmus test for anyone that wants to enter these threads.


Anyway, I was watching MSNBC earlier and they were talking about Hilary Clinton supporters wanting her to be the nominee at the convention. I guess Hilary isn't stopping them, but she says she'll still campaign for Obama. :lol
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
She's one of George W. Bush's closest advisers and highest-level appointees.

Goddam you kids get offa my lawn.
 

maynerd

Banned
Leaked McCain Memo: Paint Obama As A "Job Killing Machine"

John McCain was widely ridiculed several weeks ago for fielding reporter's questions in the cheese aisle of a grocery store. But the location of the impromptu press conference was hardly random. The McCain camp, in a strategy memo, has pinpointed grocery stores as an important venue for the Senator to push his economic agenda.

In a McCain campaign "Economic Communications Plan" that was obtained by the Huffington Post, an aide to the Senator lays out several themes, tactics and objectives to shore up the Arizona Republican's standing on the economy and paint Barack Obama as a "job killing machine."

"Our polling tells us that Americans are still not tuned into what the candidates might do to fix the economy," reads the memo. "We have an opportunity to fill in that gap."

The strategy, which was authored by Taylor Griffin -- a veteran of the Bush White House and Treasury Department who serves McCain as a senior adviser -- seems built around traditional themes. The McCain campaign will paint Obama as being "aligned with trial lawyers" and "unions (card check, trade, education reform)," and push the frame that he "raises taxes" and "will kill jobs."

In contrast, McCain will be positioned as a bold leader on economic matters, someone who has a "record of taking on corporate interests" and will "fight speculation driving up prices of oil and food" as well as "the lawsuit culture."

"People are tired of big corporations, lobbyist and special interests who they feel prosper at their expense," the memo reads. "People must understand that John McCain is not only thinking of their future, but their children's futures as well."

To do this, McCain's camp plans to utilize a number of tactics, including "family budget roundtables, grocery store visits," and "roundtable events heavily tilted towards women to discuss the pressures the economy is placing on family finances and how McCain's plan would help." The campaign also will work the fourth estate. As detailed in Taylor's memo, McCain will "provide compelling set of programming and surrogate activity to drive media interest," and "mobilize economists in target states supporting the McCain plan to engage the media in support of our plan."

Framing, indeed, is a major component of the strategy document. Aides to the Senator envision an "All Star Economists Project" that would "use prominent economists to bolster [the] intellectual case for the McCain plan" -- see the much-disputed list of 300 -- and "roll out Nobel Prize winners endorsing [his] plan." On a local level, the Senator will rely on a "Small Business Network," in which small business owners would serve "as local surrogates for the McCain plan... write letters to the editor, op-eds and participate in surrogate events."

One Griffin bullet point made its way into a recent public McCain statement: emphasizing similarities between the Senator's prescriptions for Iraq and those he is offering for the economy.

"Draw the parallel with the same kind of bold leadership that McCain demonstrated in pushing the surge strategy that allowed us to win in Iraq. Need that same vision, intensity and leadership to attack our economic problems."
The communications strategy is, according to Griffin's accompanying email: "working it's way around the campaign.... Think it can help us focus."

Reached on his cell phone, Griffin said he was in the middle of a conversation and couldn't talk. The McCain campaign did not immediately return requests for comment.
 

quaere

Member
scorcho said:
i doubt that comment proves they're good friends. her role of sec. of state doesn't exactly afford her ability to take part in partisan barbs, which includes both outwardly supporting either candidate or affirming the GOP's argument that electing either would somehow be unwise or unsafe for the country.
Have you been paying attention the past few years? This is the Bush administration. Anyone and everyone connected to it is supposed to be as partisan as possible. No respect for any boundaries. They've done their best to make the intelligence agencies, justice department, Pentagon, etc. all very partisan.

The difference in attitude out of the Sec. of State has been because of the people that have held those positions, not the job. Powell and Rice are two people that, even if they didn't speak up about it, always seemed like they were capable of seeing an issue from multiple sides. Unlike the President.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Dax01 said:
:( I'm sorry I don't know.
Secretary of State is an appointed position, as it's a part of the Presidents cabinet.

For GWB to appoint a democratic secretary of state would be crazier than most of the shit he's ever done.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
maynerd said:
Republicans have absolutely no chance of winning this thing because McCain is such a fucking pathetic excuse for a nominee. They only way McCain wins is if Obama loses, so they are working on that route instead of trying to race with a dead horse.

This shit is going to be all anti-Obama with very little John McCain to be seen.

We really could use some debates where Obama can really show people wtf is up. My only fear is that the moderators will not nail McCain on all of his pandering to the right and claim that it's because they want the debates to be "fair".

McCain is so full of shit and Americans are too fucking retarded to understand it.

Obama needs to put out a picture book called "McCain bad, Obama good" with nothing but pictures of the candidate acting out shit that represents them. People might be able to understand it then.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
DeaconKnowledge said:
I feel compelled to say this:

That picture is the sexiest I've ever seen (and probably ever will see) Condoleeza Rice.
Do not google image search her name and look at the 3rd result!
 

maynerd

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
I feel compelled to say this:

That picture is the sexiest I've ever seen (and probably ever will see) Condoleeza Rice.

Looks like she's got some nice legs. She's not married man GO FOR IT!
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I know Paris Hilton didn't write her own response, but that was pretty good :lol It went on a little long, but her, "Uh, for energy, why don't we like...do both?" was one of the saddest Occam's razor moments for this country in some time!
 
Y2Kev said:
I know Paris Hilton didn't write her own response, but that was pretty good :lol It went on a little long, but her, "Uh, for energy, why don't we like...do both?" was one of the saddest Occam's razor moments for this country in some time!
The funny thing is how McCain's spokesperson came out and said that Paris is supporting the same energy poilcy that McCain is and it's better than Obama's "Dr. No (lol)" approach when a day or so prior to this video coming out Obama himself said he would allow a bit of offshore drilling in order to get the alternative energy initiatives through the door as a compromise.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Jason's Ultimatum said:
SoD William Cohen. ;)
The Billy C of old cannot be compared to this filth we have now!
 

GhaleonEB

Member
maynerd said:
And McCain is having a hard time painting that picture today in Ohio:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/07/america/NA-POL-US-McCain-DHL.php

Republican presidential candidate John McCain is taking up the issue of possible job losses due to the closure of a German-owned DHL shipping site in Ohio, the result of a corporate merger aided by his campaign manager during his work as a lobbyist.

In 2003, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis lobbied Congress to accept a proposal by DHL to buy Airborne Express, which kept its domestic hub in Wilmington in southwest Ohio.

In announcing a restructuring plan in May, DHL said it planned to hire United Parcel Service to move some of its air packages, sending them through an airport in Louisville, Kentucky, and putting the Wilmington Air Park out of business. Some 8,000 jobs could be at stake, Wilmington officials estimate.

Davis took a leave of absence from his lobbying practice to work for McCain, a self-styled reformer who asked his campaign staff to disclose all previous lobbying ties and make certain they were no longer registered as lobbyists or foreign agents.

McCain on Thursday was to discuss DHL's plans with local officials and others affected by the potential job losses. The economy and job losses are important issues in Ohio, a critical swing state that gave President George W. Bush the electoral votes needed for re-election in 2004.

McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said Wednesday that Davis had not worked with DHL since 2005, long before DHL announced plans to move its work out of Wilmington. The companies merged in 2003.

"At the time of the merger, no one anticipated an impact on jobs in Wilmington," Rogers said.

McCain, as chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, had a role in the deal too. He urged then-Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens to abandon proposed legislation that would have prohibited foreign-owned carriers from flying U.S. military equipment or troops, which Airborne Express said was aimed at torpedoing its merger with DHL.

Rogers said McCain opposed the bill because it could have hurt the military's airlift capabilities in a time of war.
A perfect example of what Obama has been hammering McCain on for having lobbyists run his campaign.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
continuing yesterday's farce (where Republicans claimed credit for lowering crude prices by talking in an empty chamber amongst themselves), House Republicans now advocate that we adopt Paris Hilton's energy plan. you know, the one written by known policy wonk Adam McKay.
 

Cyan

Banned
Azih said:
"True, alas I can't find my data. Anyway poor people don't vote poor people are racists racists don't vote QED"
I can't be the only one who cracked up on reading this followed by reading the name of the next poster:
syllogism said:
On that EW article Mccain claims to like The Wire and... Dexter
 

Cyan

Banned
Mandark said:
Look, American political science has dedicated a few resources to looking at the effects of race and racial attitudes on voting patterns over the years.
No kidding. One of my best friends is working on a few studies looking in this direction at the moment. Fascinating stuff, and it's amazing just how in-depth they go on these things.
 

Cheebs

Member
scorcho said:
i doubt that comment proves they're good friends. her role of sec. of state doesn't exactly afford her ability to take part in partisan barbs, which includes both outwardly supporting either candidate or affirming the GOP's argument that electing either would somehow be unwise or unsafe for the country.
No not the comment, she has said in the past her and Obama are friends and she'd have to seriously consider voting for him if he won the primary (she said this like over a year ago when he didnt have a shot of course)
 

Tamanon

Banned
scorcho said:
continuing yesterday's farce (where Republicans claimed credit for lowering crude prices by talking in an empty chamber amongst themselves), House Republicans now advocate that we adopt Paris Hilton's energy plan. you know, the one written by known policy wonk Adam McKay.

Basically they've decided that if a plan has any drilling in it, then support it whole-heartedly!
 
I don't think I've seen this posted yet:

Win Points for McCain! - Rewards Program for Online Commenters

Spread John McCain's official talking points around the Web -- and you could win valuable prizes!

That, in essence, is the McCain campaign's pitch to supporters to join its new online effort, one that combines the features of "AstroTurf" campaigning with the sort of customer-loyalty programs offered by airlines, hotel chains, restaurants and the occasional daily newspaper.

On McCain's Web site, visitors are invited to "Spread the Word" about the presumptive Republican nominee by sending campaign-supplied comments to blogs and Web sites under the visitor's screen name. The site offers sample comments ("John McCain has a comprehensive economic plan . . .") and a list of dozens of suggested destinations, conveniently broken down into "conservative," "liberal," "moderate" and "other" categories. Just cut and paste.

Activists and political operatives have used volunteers or paid staff to seed radio call-in shows or letters-to-the-editor pages for years, typically without disclosing the caller or letter writer's connection to a candidate or cause. Like the fake grass for which the practice is named, such AstroTurf messages look as though they come from the grass roots but are ersatz.

McCain's campaign has taken the same idea and given it an Internet-era twist. It also has taken the concept one step further.

People who sign up for McCain's program receive reward points each time they place a favorable comment on one of the listed Web sites (subject to verification by McCain's webmasters). The points can be traded for prizes, such as books autographed by McCain, preferred seating at campaign events, even a ride with the candidate on his bus, known as the Straight Talk Express, according to campaign spokesman Brian Rogers.

"Anytime you're getting supporters activated into online communities or taking other actions to spread the word, that's a win," Rogers says.

"Reward points" or other incentives for political work aren't a new concept. The Republican National Committee started a rewards program for volunteer fundraisers several years ago. More recently, Barack Obama's campaign has given small donors and volunteers the chance to win a lunch or dinner with the candidate. (Obama's campaign doesn't have a comment program similar to McCain's.)

More chillingly, dissidents alleged earlier this year that the Chinese government has paid Chinese citizens token sums for each favorable comment about government policies they post in chat rooms and on blogs.

Offering incentives to spread presidential campaign rhetoric online makes sense, says Michael Cornfield, an adjunct professor at George Washington University and an expert in political management online. "Now that social media have expanded citizen comment opportunities far beyond the old letter to the editor and talk show call-in, campaigns should take advantage," he says.

But Cornfield (an executive with a company that markets political-organizing software) says McCain's program has a couple of bugs.

The first, he says, is the lack of disclosure instructions to participants. To rise above AstroTurf -- a practice considered ethically dubious by many political operatives -- Cornfield says participants should use their real names and identify themselves as part of a campaign participation program (as in, "I'm Mike Cornfield, and I'm part of the McCain Action Team").

He also says "germaneness" is an issue: "Talking points are fine, but a comment should refer specifically to something that was said or written previously in the thread where it is intended to appear."


McCain should reconsider the program for an entirely different reason, says Zach Exley, who directed online organizing for John Kerry's Democratic presidential campaign in 2004. Both the Kerry campaign and the GOP's national committee, he said, had underwhelming results when they offered incentives of various kinds to volunteers.

"This stuff never works," Exley says. "People in politics aren't motivated by points. That's not what gets people to act. They're motivated by genuinely caring about the issues."

Indeed, he adds, some volunteers resent points and incentives because they think it demeans or devalues their work.

This might explain why some of the Web sites targeted by McCain's program haven't noticed much of a surge in pro-McCain comments.

David Wissing, the founder of the Hedgehog Report, a blog about Maryland politics, said his comment traffic has been running about 60 percent conservative and 40 percent liberal in recent weeks, which is typical. Wissing said he keeps an eye on reader comments -- he recently banned a poster for using multiple screen names -- and hasn't seen postings that use similar or identical language, usually a telltale sign of an AstroTurf program.

Another political blogger, David Adams, who runs Kentucky-centric Kyprogress.org, was unaware that McCain's campaign had listed his site as a target for comments until he was told about it by a reporter Friday. He questioned how much good such messages would do in any case. Kentucky, he points out, is a solidly Republican state that probably will vote overwhelmingly for McCain in the fall.

"Our eight votes are going to McCain no matter what he or Barack Obama says," Adams said of the electoral college.
 

Mumei

Member
Some interesting stuff in a new Time Magazine poll:

http://www.srbi.com/ObamaMaintainsSlimLead.pdf

Q3. IF THE CANDIDATES IN THE NOVEMBER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WERE BARACK OBAMA AND JOHN MCCAIN, AND YOU HAD TO
CHOOSE, FOR WHICH OF THESE CANDIDATES WOULD YOU VOTE?

BARACK OBAMA 43%
JOHN MCCAIN 37%
OTHER/NEITHER 3%
UNDECIDED/DON'T KNOW/NO 17%
ANSWER

Q4. DO YOU LEAN MORE TOWARD BARACK OBAMA OR JOHN MCCAIN?
BASE: UNDECIDED REGISTERED LIKELY VOTERS (132)

LEAN MORE TOWARD BARACK 19%
OBAMA
LEAN MORE TOWARD JOHN 20%
MCCAIN
OTHER 1%
WOULD NOT VOTE FOR 3%
EITHER
UNDECIDED/DON'T KNOW/NO 58%

Q8. TURNING AGAIN TO THE RACE BETWEEN BARACK OBAMA AND JOHN MCCAIN, WHICH CANDIDATE WOULD BEST BE DESCRIBED BY
EACH OF THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS?

A) IS THE MOST LIKEABLE

BARACK OBAMA 65%
JOHN MCCAIN 20%
OTHER *
NEITHER 4%
BOTH, SAME 4%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 6%

B) BEST UNDERSTANDS THE CONCERNS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF

BARACK OBAMA 48%
JOHN MCCAIN 35%
OTHER *
NEITHER 10%
BOTH, SAME 2%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 5%

E) WOULD BEST HANDLE THE SITUATION IN IRAQ

BARACK OBAMA 36%
JOHN MCCAIN 51%
OTHER *
NEITHER 4%
BOTH, SAME 2%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 7%

F) WOULD BEST BE ABLE TO RESTORE AMERICA'S IMAGE IN THE WORLD

BARACK OBAMA 52%
JOHN MCCAIN 33%
OTHER *
NEITHER 7%
BOTH, SAME 1%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 7%

K) IS THE CANDIDATE WHO SWITCHES HIS POSITIONS FOR POLITICAL REASONS

BARACK OBAMA 40%
JOHN MCCAIN 26%
NEITHER 5%
BOTH, SAME 14%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 15%

I think that K) is particularly disheartening, myself, but I wonder how respondents reconcile that and these:

L) IS THE REAL CANDIDATE OF CHANGE

BARACK OBAMA 61%
JOHN MCCAIN 17%
NEITHER 13%
BOTH, SAME 2%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 7%

Q12. IS BARACK OBAMA PRETTY MUCH JUST ANOTHER POLITICIAN, OR IS HE REALLY A DIFFERENT KIND OF CANDIDATE?

LIKE OTHER POLITICIANS 37%
DIFFERENT KIND OF 52%
CANDIDATE
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 10%

Q12. IS JOHN MCCAIN PRETTY MUCH JUST ANOTHER POLITICIAN, OR IS HE REALLY A DIFFERENT KIND OF CANDIDATE?

LIKE OTHER POLITICIANS 61%
DIFFERENT KIND OF 32%
CANDIDATE
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 7%

It really is weird seeing how schizophrenic people's views are. He's got extreme positions and changes positions for political gain - but he's also a different kind of politician who can restore our image abroad and bring Americans together again!

It's like they are paying a bit of attention, so they soak in competing claims from the campaigns without stopping and thinking about whether they are at all contradictory, but not enough attention that they are fully engaged.

Q13. HOW WELL DO EACH OF THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS DESCRIBE BARACK OBAMA AND HIS CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENCY?
D) THE REAL BARACK OBAMA HOLDS EXTREME POSITIONS WHICH WON'T BE REVEALED UNTIL AFTER HE'S ELECTED, NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS NOW

VERY WELL 28%
SOME 25%
NOT MUCH 11%
NOT AT ALL 28%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 9%

And this just made me happy:

Q16. SHOULD GAY AND LESBIAN COUPLES BE ALLOWED TO MARRY, GIVING THEM FULL LEGAL RIGHTS OF MARRIED COUPLES, OR NOT?

SHOULD BE ALLOWED 47%
SHOULD NOT 47%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 6%

Q16A. DO YOU FAVOR OR OPPOSE AN AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION THAT WOULD BAN SAME-SEX COUPLES FROM GETTING MARRIED?

FAVOR 35%
OPPOSE 58%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 7%
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
continuing yesterday's farce (where Republicans claimed credit for lowering crude prices by talking in an empty chamber amongst themselves), House Republicans now advocate that we adopt Paris Hilton's energy plan. you know, the one written by known policy wonk Adam McKay.

It's weird. Congressional Republicans are arguing that you can significantly lower commodity prices by just hinting at a tiny increase in production years down the road. Combine this with McCain's "psychological" comment and Gramm's recession statement and look at the overall message.

The GOP is now telling us that markets are irrational and easily manipulated. That flies both in the face of their favored economic dogma and the bowdlerized version they use on the campaign trail.


Cyan said:
No kidding. One of my best friends is working on a few studies looking in this direction at the moment. Fascinating stuff, and it's amazing just how in-depth they go on these things.

We spend most of our time in these threads reinventing the wheel, rehashing arguments other people have had thousands of times over. Which is pretty useful in sorting out how you feel about something.

But for the more factual, verifiable stuff you can bet someone has already had the same idea and put it through the ringer. It's good to remember that with a few exceptions we're basically dilettantes.
 
I really hate this Republican Strategist on MSNBC right now. The guy knows he's spilling bullshit... but he does it without a problem anyway.

I guess thats his job... but whatever.
 
Mumei said:
It really is weird seeing how schizophrenic people's views are. He's got extreme positions and changes positions for political gain - but he's also a different kind of politician who can restore our image abroad and bring Americans together again!

It's like they are paying a bit of attention, so they soak in competing claims from the campaigns without stopping and thinking about whether they are at all contradictory, but not enough attention that they are fully engaged.

 

Tamanon

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
I really hate this Republican Strategist on MSNBC right now. The guy knows he's spilling bullshit... but he does it without a problem anyway.

I guess thats his job... but whatever.

Joe Watkins is a putz. He always talks over the other guy and just spews.
 

Mumei

Member
tanod said:
You have to remember that 33% is McCain's floor. That's the people who think Bush is actually doing a good job.

Q14A. IN GENERAL, DO YOU APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE OF THE WAY PRESIDENT BUSH IS HANDLING HIS JOB AS PRESIDENT?

APPROVE 29%
DISAPPROVE 66%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 5%

Yeah, I noticed. =|
 
I guess McCain came out in response to Obama's attack where he said McCain's energy plan is no different than Bush's plan, but McCain's retort was that he voted against Bush's energy plan due to oil companies getting tax cuts while Obama voted yes.
 

J.ceaz

Member
MSNBC reports Raymond hunter giesel has been arreseted for threatening to assassainate Obama AND Bush. he was arrested with a vast arsennel of weapons.
 

Cyan

Banned
Mandark said:
We spend most of our time in these threads reinventing the wheel, rehashing arguments other people have had thousands of times over. Which is pretty useful in sorting out how you feel about something.
I'd never thought of it like that. So it's not only a waste of time...

But for the more factual, verifiable stuff you can bet someone has already had the same idea and put it through the ringer. It's good to remember that with a few exceptions we're basically dilettantes.
...but it still mostly is. :)
 
Jesus Joe Watkins is such a sleez... he gets asked about one of Obama's VP picks and he goes off on some tangent about how Obama has recieved more money from Oil Companies. (which is a lie)
 
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