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[Door2Dawn]

Nope, remember civil unions is actually worse than no marriage whatsoever I believe we hashed this out between pages 38 and 243.

Fixed.

 

[masud]

Well he's taking the view that it's up to the states, which basically doesn't help. A federal guarantee of equal rights for gay civil unions would be better

Well looking at what Obama has said about the issue, it looks like he might be for that. It wouldn't make sense for him to be too vocal about it now though.

Anyway, I still believe the word "marriage" should be stricken off legal documents if it's such a religiously involved institution. Put everybody on civil unions, heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.

Exactly.

 

[speculawyer]

So we don't have all the proof in yet, but it looks like the "Cross in the Dirt" story last night may be = Hillary's "sniper fire". There a similar story from Alexander Solzhenitsyn in his account "The Gulag Archipelago" and McCain is a big fan of his.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

Not in his 12,000 word POW account, although he'll "never forget it"

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news...n-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html

Idiots will think that is charming. Reagan confused some acting he played in a war movie with something that actually occured in a war . . . people that it was cute. These are people that don't mind voting for an idiot or a delusional person.

 

[reilo]

McCain is actually lying about the things that had happened during his time as a POW?

What the fuck?

 

[TDG]

McCain is actually lying about the things that had happened during his time as a POW?

 

[Tamanon]

If it's true, it's absolutely silly. If there's one story you don't need to fluff up for different audiences it's being a Prisoner of War.

Although he has shown himself to be willing to change minor details like naming the Steelers linemen when in Pittsburgh.

 

[Byakuya769]

Then why is Obama throwing a historic segment of the Democratic block under the bus to pander to a group of wingnuts who are never going to vote for him anyway? And if you think voting gay Americans don't care about these statements you're wrong.

Obama is the worst kind of hypocrite, which is to be expected as this is politics. But the idea of "new politics" in association with Obama is just absurd.

How is he throwing them under the bus? Please explain...

 

[Mumei]

Then again, if you take the Gaborn side of things, he actually would support Obama leaving it to the states, and sees federal civil unions as bad, lol.

I prefer this, too.

New York doesn't allow gay marriages to take place in that state (yet), but they do recognize marriages from out of state. California recognizes gay marriages. Massachusetts recognizes gay marriages. That's 20% of the population of the United States in areas that recognize gay marriage.

New Jersey has civil unions, and gay marriage is supported in polling done now. Maryland shows strong support for gay marriage, and super majorities in the Senate and House (but other issues holding it back for now); according to Gallup's polling, the East and the West (as opposed to the Midwest and South) supported gay marriage by fairly strong margins.

I'd like to see gay marriage achieved piecemeal in those states, rather than seeing civil unions achieved at the federal level. Honestly, I'd prefer waiting until we have recognition at the majority of the state level (or at least in terms of population); by that time (5 - 10 years), the support for gay marriage might be there, too.

If there's anything I'd like Obama to do on this issue, it would simply be working on getting DOMA repealed. If that isn't possible, then I don't want anything from him on the marriage issue.

 

[worldrunover]

McCain is actually lying about the things that had happened during his time as a POW?

What the fuck?

Well there's no way to ever actually prove he was lying, and it's within the realm of possibility it did happen, so you'll have to sit on it.

 

[Cheebs]

How is he throwing them under the bus? Please explain...

Because Hillary lost to Obama and he is still mad about it

 

[The Librarian]

McCain is actually lying about the things that had happened during his time as a POW?

What the fuck?

wat

 

[thekad]

Not this shit again. Gaborn is here in spirit.

 

[Mumei]

Since when are homosexuals "historic segments" of the party worth losing an election over?

Well.

There's no such thing as a constituency worth losing an election over (would be kinda counterproductive), but LGBT is the Democrat's second most reliable constituency in terms of voting rates... and we were about 6% of Gore's vote and about 6.3% of Kerry's.

Black people are around 20% of Kerry's vote, by comparison.

According to exit polling, anyway; those numbers go up or down if you think that gays are under or overrepresented in that.

I'd imagine many homosexuals are grown up enough to realize that while they aren't getting exactly what they want, with Obama they will be getting SOMETHING (civil unions) as opposed to NOTHING.

Except those aren't the only options.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Because Hillary lost to Obama and he is still mad about it

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Obama/Powell '08

 

[woeds]

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/cbcd3a48-4b0e-4864-8be1-d04561c132ea.htm
:lol :lol

Transformative information and communications technologies permeate every aspect of our daily lives. In the last decade, there has been an explosion in the ways Americans communicate with family, friends, and business partners; shop and connect with global markets; educate themselves; become more engaged politically; and consume and even create entertainment. America has led the world into this technology revolution because we have allowed innovation to take root, grow, and prosper. Nurturing technology and innovation is essential for solving the critical problems facing our country: developing alternative fuels, addressing climate change, stopping the spiraling expense of health care, and better educating our children.

John McCain is uniquely qualified to lead our nation during this technological revolution. He is the former chairman of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation. The Committee plays a major role in the development of technology policy, specifically any legislation affecting communications services, the Internet, cable television and other technologies. Under John McCain’s guiding hand, Congress developed a wireless spectrum policy that spurred the rapid rise of mobile phones and Wi-Fi technology that enables Americans to surf the web while sitting at a coffee shop, airport lounge, or public park.

John McCain, the self proclaimed computer illiterate......gave us Wi-fi

:lol :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/cbcd3a48-4b0e-4864-8be1-d04561c132ea.htm
:lol :lol

John McCain, the self proclaimed computer illiterate......gave us Wi-fi

:lol :lol

Is this the new Gore created the internet (only worse)?

 

[Catchpenny]

Being pro-civil union, anti-gay marriage is a bullshit position regardless of justification (unless you oppose all federally-approved marriages). It's terminology that panders to people who are for equality in theory but freak out at the mention of "gay marriage" because OMGZ two dudes in white dresses kissing. It's saying, ok, we'll give gay couples the rights of a married couple, but it only counts in states where we don't have to fight too hard for it.

I'm not really upset with Obama about this, because any Democratic candidate for president would say the same thing. I just wish he or another prominent Democrat would say something like, "All gay Americans should have the same rights as heterosexual Americans, but we're starting on the state level and working our way up."

In other words, I have to agree with APF. Of course, Republicans are also hypocrites for pretending that protecting the "sanctity of marriage" means anything other than EWWW FAGS ARE GROSS BURN IN HELL QUEERS.

 

[reilo]

Anyone watching Condi Rice on Meet the Press right now, spewing the same talking points about Russia v. Georgia, and David Gregory nodding his head like an imbecile the entire time and not question anything she says?

Gregory hosting MTP is a goddamn shame.

 

[Tamanon]

Anyone watching Condi Rice on Meet the Press right now, spewing the same talking points about Russia v. Georgia, and David Gregory nodding his head like an imbecile the entire time and not question anything she says?

Gregory hosting MTP is a goddamn shame.

You'll be in for a treat when David Gregory asks Bobby Jindal for a "big idea" that McCain is advocating.

 

[reilo]

You'll be in for a treat when David Gregory asks Bobby Jindal for a "big idea" that McCain is advocating.

My prediction: Jindal will say something completely nonsensical and small scale, and Gregory will stand up, give a standing ovation, then proclaim to be the best host ever?

 

[reilo]

Jindahl: "What's most important to me is that the next president appoints judges that will read the constitution and not legislate from the bench."

Oh, so you'll be voting for Obama?

Wait, haha. Now he said that judges should decide upon abortion and whether it's legal or not... is that not legislating from the bench?

Fucking Gregory is letting Bobby coast through this and isn't challenging him on anything.

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503098.html

David Broder (yeah, I know):

Having seen the Obama "machine" at work in places from Iowa to New Hampshire to South Carolina and elsewhere during the nomination fight, I was curious how they were gearing up for their first national campaign.

The answer to the first question is that they seem very confident.

As for the second, they appear to have expanded the scope of their efforts without losing the purposeful focus that was so important in the defeat of Hillary Clinton and the other challengers.

But the Obama folks are not leaving it to chance. Plouffe said that "turnout is the big variable," and the campaign is devoting an unusually large budget to register scads of new voters and bring them to the polls. "That's how we win the Floridas and Ohios," he said, mentioning two states that went narrowly for George W. Bush. "And that's how we get competitive in the Indianas and Virginias," two of six or seven states that long have been Republican -- but are targets this year.

"That's why I pay more attention to the registration figures than to the polls I see at this time of year," Plouffe said. "The polls will change, but we know we need 200,000 new voters to be competitive in Georgia, and now is when we have to get them."

That mind-set -- take care of business and don't worry about irrelevancies -- is what struck me in talking to Obama's team in the primary states. Here, as in the states, they seem singularly devoid of turf battles or personal feuds.

 

[Tamanon]

Obama camp is just trying to make Howard Dean blush with their commitment to GOTV.

 

[giga]

So I've been out of the loop, but when does Obama plan to send out the texts for the VP candidate? Before the convention i'd assume?

 

[Tamanon]

Should probably be later this week.

BTW, Obama/Reggie Love interview on E-60 on ESPN Tuesday night. Should be interesting.:lol

 

[Rekki-Maru]

Gregory hosting MTP is a goddamn shame.

they need to change the show now, call it meet the hardball.

 

[Door2Dawn]

McCain and Obama are tied 45 to 45 in ohio,accordung to PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP.


Obama may have a party unity problem,the poll suggests.

 

[worldrunover]

Jindahl: "What's most important to me is that the next president appoints judges that will read the constitution and not legislate from the bench."

Oh, so you'll be voting for Obama?

Wait, haha. Now he said that judges should decide upon abortion and whether it's legal or not... is that not legislating from the bench?

Fucking Gregory is letting Bobby coast through this and isn't challenging him on anything.

Maybe I'm a little confused about what "legislating from the bench" means, but on the issue of abortion how can the constitution be construed in a way to overturn Roe V Wade? Not to mention an amendment on gay marriage?

And furthermore, hasn't McCain already said Roe V Wade is settled law? He often fails to mention this.

 

[worldrunover]

So I've been out of the loop, but when does Obama plan to send out the texts for the VP candidate? Before the convention i'd assume?

Supposedly you'll be the first to know. They're deadset on getting these texts out before the news outlets have the story. How likely that is remains to be seen.

 

[Frank the Great]

Maybe I'm a little confused about what "legislating from the bench" means, but on the issue of abortion how can the constitution be construed in a way to overturn Roe V Wade? Not to mention an amendment on gay marriage?

And furthermore, hasn't McCain already said Roe V Wade is settled law? He often fails to mention this.

"Legislating from the bench" simply means "making liberal decisions." Conservatives have no qualms with judicial power in instances when, say, laws are overturned in favor of gun rights (DC v. Heller) or the Supreme Court decides to step in and elect a Republican President (Bush v. Gore.)

 

[ElectricBlue187]

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/cbcd3a48-4b0e-4864-8be1-d04561c132ea.htm
:lol :lol


John McCain, the self proclaimed computer illiterate......gave us Wi-fi

:lol :lol

oh kee-rist

 

[GhaleonEB]

McCain and Obama are tied 45 to 45 in ohio,accordung to PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP.

Obama may have a party unity problem,the poll suggests.

A tie is down from an eight point Obama lead a month ago, but it's more in line with what other polls of the state has shown. It's going to be close.

 

[TDG]

McCain and Obama are tied 45 to 45 in ohio,accordung to PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP.


Obama may have a party unity problem,the poll suggests.

Obama won't win Ohio, I guarantee it.

Spoiler

I reserve the right to un-guarantee it if Bayh is the running mate.

 

[grandjedi6]

Obama won't win Ohio, I guarantee it.

Spoiler

I reserve the right to un-guarantee it if Bayh is the running mate.

I guarantee you will lose that bet either way

 

[GhaleonEB]

In yesterday's Saddleback Forum, pastor Rick Warren on two occasions referred to John McCain's "cone of silence", implying strongly that he had not been able to hear the questions posed to Barack Obama ahead of time -- questions which were, in many cases, identical to the ones posed to McCain.

This was Pastor Warren during Barack Obama's segment last night. Apologies for the capitalization -- it is in the original transcript -- but emphasis is mine:

NOW WHAT I'VE DECIDED IS TO ALLOW FOR PROPER COMPARISON I'M GOING TO ASK IDENTICAL QUESTIONS TO EACH OF THESE CANDIDATES SO YOU CAN COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. NOW SENATOR OBAMA IS GOING TO GO FIRST. WE FLIPPED A COIN. AND WE HAVE SAFELY PLACED SENATOR MCCAIN IN A CONE OF SILENCE. EACH OF THE INTERVIEWS WILL BE SEGMENTED INTO FOUR DIFFERENT SECTIONS WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS AND THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN EACH SEGMENT WILL DEPEND ON HOW SUCCINCT THE SENATOR IS.

Warren again referred to the "cone of silence" at the very beginning of McCain's segment. McCain's response is obviously a joke, and a pretty funny one at that, but the important part is that Warren is implying that the cone of silence is an actual, physical place:

Q. WELCOME BACK TO THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY AND WELCOME SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN. NOW MY FIRST QUESTION WAS THE CONE OF SILENCE COMFORTABLE THAT YOU WERE IN JUST NOW?

A. I WAS TRYING TO HEAR THROUGH THE WALL.

However, Warren was just interviewed by CNN's Rick Sanchez, and apparently told him that McCain was not in the church during the first half-hour of Obama's segment. (I did not see the segment myself, nor does a transcript or video yet seem to be available). Sanchez has now suggested that Warren implied to him that he (Warren) thought McCain was in the "cone of silence" when he told the audience as much, but later learned that McCain was not.

This is highly despicable behavior, folks, on the part of McCain, Warren or possibly both. There's simply no way around it.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/pastor-warren-contradicts-self-on-cone.html

Very likely McCain was fed at least the first half of the questions.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I'm finding it very hard to keep a cool head in light of what happened last night and the media's interpretation of it. I pray to God Obama will win.

 

[maximum360]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/pastor-warren-contradicts-self-on-cone.html

Very likely McCain was fed at least the first half of the questions.

Warren said that he trusts McCain's explanation that he did not hear any of the questions prior to McCain arriving at the site.

Yeah, right. :lol

A turd on a stick is more trustworthy than McCain at this point.

 

[JayDubya]

Wait, haha. Now he said that judges should decide upon abortion and whether it's legal or not... is that not legislating from the bench?

Removing the issue from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court would be the opposition of "judicial activism" / LFTB.

You may not agree on the issues, but let's not misrepresent the facts while we're at it.

 

[Frank the Great]

Removing the issue from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court would be the opposition of "judicial activism" / LFTB.

You may not agree on the issues, but let's not misrepresent the facts while we're at it.

The S.C. deciding whether it is legal or not is not removing the issue from its jurisdiction.

 

[TDG]

I guarantee you will lose that bet either way

We'll see, we'll see... Just looking around, talking to people, I don't think it'll happen.

Still a lot to go, mind you, but people here are fucking partisan.

 

[JayDubya]

The S.C. deciding whether it is legal or not is not removing the issue from its jurisdiction.

Prior to Roe, SCotUS had no constitutional authority over the matter.

With that decision, Blackmun crafted a de facto constitutional amendment to give them the authority, as if abortion was totally already in the Bill of Rights (maybe it is if you get Benjamin Franklin's magical goggles and look at the back to see the special ink - I think that's where Bruckheimer got the idea).

When a conservative says they oppose LFTB, particularly with regards to this issue, the meaning could not be more clear. They oppose that sort of nonsense, explicitly.

 

[kkaabboomm]

he had the ability to gauge the crowds reaction to various answers, to gauge how responses were viewed by live-blogging news reporters, to hear and plan out answers ahead of when they were asked, while obama didn't.
the pastor lied at the start (though he may not have known mccain wasn't there yet).

and yet, the media scores it for mccain as he did so well.

even if he DIDN'T act on the 100% confirmed abilities set forth above, the fact he had them at his disposal puts an air of impropriety over the event.

 

[Frank the Great]

Prior to Roe, SCotUS had no constitutional authority over the matter.

With that decision, Blackmun crafted a de facto constitutional amendment to give them the authority, as if abortion was totally already in the Bill of Rights (maybe it is if you get Benjamin Franklin's magical goggles and look at the back to see the special ink - I think that's where Bruckheimer got the idea).

When a conservative says they oppose LFTB, particularly with regards to this issue, the meaning could not be more clear. They oppose that sort of nonsense, explicitly.

Yeah, even as someone in favor of abortion rights, the decision in Roe v. Wade was really shitty and the reasoning made little sense.

You know your opinion sucks when you have to preface it with pages upon pages of irrelevant abortion history.

 

[JayDubya]

Yeah, even as someone in favor of abortion rights, the decision in Roe v. Wade was really shitty and the reasoning made little sense.

You know your opinion sucks when you have to preface it with pages upon pages of irrelevant abortion history.

I can respect someone that recognizes that. Now, about overturning that decision, since it was really shitty and made little sense...

 

[Frank the Great]

I can respect someone that recognizes that. Now, about overturning that decision, since it was really shitty and made little sense...

Never gonna happen, unless there is a new decision protecting abortion rights that offers a better argument.

 

[JayDubya]

Never gonna happen, unless there is a new decision protecting abortion rights that offers a better argument.

There is no good argument for abortion rights protected at the federal level because there's no ratified constitutional amendment to make it so, or a ratified constitutional amendment to remove the 10th Amendment.

 

[Diablos]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/pastor-warren-contradicts-self-on-cone.html

Very likely McCain was fed at least the first half of the questions.

What the fuck.

 

[Macam]

Wait, haha. Now he said that judges should decide upon abortion and whether it's legal or not... is that not legislating from the bench?

Not that I need to tell you this, but "legislating from the bench" is just a marketing tool for the culture wars and is not really meant to be taken seriously. Nor is Bobby Jindal, really.

 

[StoOgE]

meg wittman one of the three most important people mccain will listen to... really?

Woohoo free market prevails, oil on ebay.