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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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S

speculawyer

Member
David Bellavia, founder of Bush suck-up outfit Vets For Freedom, says he "will never attack a Vietnam veteran," but then proceeds to say this about Senator Chuck Hagel:

BELLAVIA: But Sen. Hagel -- we can disagree on a lot of issues -- but Sen. Hagel has never been shot at in Iraq, he's never seen what an IED looks like or been detonated on. This is an individual that could embed himself instead of doing a two-day congressional delegation. Go out there, walk with the troops, see what's going on on the ground.
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Uh . . . I don't mean to downplay the difficult Iraq war . . . but we lost some 50K soldiers in Vietnam and the other side was funded by a super-power.

Ma'am, I've served over a year and our organization is just stock-full of Purple Heart and Valor Award winners. We've seen the worst of this fight. There's no propaganda here, ma'am. We love America. We want to win the war that our Congress sent us to fight. You don't send Americans -- men and women -- to lose a war, to end a stalemate. You send them to win in a war, and that's what we're trying to do. And you know what? We're closer today than we ever have been.

Shorter Bellavia: The problem with Hagel is that he does not love America, and would prefer we lose wars.
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We sent them over their to depose Saddam from power and secure those (phantom) WMDs. That war was over like 4 years ago. It has been a different war since then. A weird mess of a war battling AQ, Saddam loyalists, Iraqi Nationalists, and Shiia militia. We never sent them to win that fight. And in fact, by his standards we just surrendered since those Nazi-appeasers in the whitehouse agreed to a pull-out deal.


Bellavia went on to add, "Now, again, with Sen. Hagel -- my problem with Sen. Hagel is, again, his experienced is based on what? The Mekong Delta. It's based on Vietnam, a totally different fight, a totally different enemy, and by the way, it was 30 years ago. That doesn't cheapen his service. That doesn't cheapen his expertise. But when it comes down to Iraq, I will take that specialist who's 20 years old from Decorah, Iowa, who served three tours in combat, over anything any member of the House or Senate has to say."
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But you want a 72 year-old Navy pilot that doesn't know the difference between shiia and Sunni and who was show down in Nam and lost 5 planes to lead.

BTW, 30 years ago? We were in Nam 30 years ago? 1978?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
NLB2 said:
Yes.

It wouldn't be an issue if he didn't shake so many shady hands. Or attend their churches regularly, or have them as his mentor while growing up, etc.
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Why didn't you go for the Trifecta and say he is a Muslim too?

BTW, you do know the other guy cheated on his wife multiple times, got nailed in the Keating 5 bank scandal (then did the same type of think with regards to an FCC matter), and has had a campaign staff made up of "shady hands" (AKA lobbyists for all sorts of fun folks like the government of Burma)

Nobody is totally clean . . . but this should be decided on their policy initiatives.
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
Freak Out Your Friends With Fake Obama VP TXT

http://wonkette.com/402054/freak-out-your-friends-with-fake-obama-vp-txt

Here’s some low-level trickery to get you through the afternoon, courtesy of perverse Wonkette Operative “Bobby,” who sends hilarious instructions for sending legitimate-looking TXT announcements from Barack Obama. Who will be the new vice president? Whoever you want, that’s who!

Using Verizon’s website its super easy to send fake VP nominations…

https://text.vzw.com/customer_site/jsp/messaging_lo.jsp

Just make the From and Reply to number 62262.

(You have to put your real number in the Call Back field, but it doesn’t show up in the text.)

… and send a message (to your verizon wireless friends) thanking them for their support and letting them know you have chosen Hillaryt Clinton as your running mate!

Don’t forget to hit the Urgent checkbox!
 
V

v1cious

Banned
ViperVisor said:
It only took 2 minutes for Glenny Beck to call Obama a socialist today. He also called McCain a "Conservative Socialist."

It's just a step up from him calling Obama a Marxist.
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ok would someone tell me what's so horrible about socialism? yeah cause free healthcare would be such a disaster. it's all propaganda. these rich conservative fucks are just trying hard not to part with any more of their money. like they can't afford it.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
v1cious said:
ok would someone tell me what's so horrible about socialism? yeah cause free healthcare would be such a disaster. it's all propaganda. these rich conservative fucks are just trying hard not to part with any more of their money. like they can't afford it.
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The average person ties the word "Socialism" to things like the Soviet Union, the Cold War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, North Korea, repressive China etc. They don't associate it with the actual form of government that it is, they associate it with certain applications of it, which all have taken it in their own direction, most of which being more dictatorial, militaristic and repressive than "true socialism" is meant to be. So in a way, it's history, and the way socialism was portrayed in this country during the "red scare".
 
V

v1cious

Banned
JayDubya said:
It's fundamentally evil?



Oh it's magically free? Awesome. I also want lunch to be free while we're at it. Always.
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so the rich pay more taxes. isn't the result worth it? consider it a payback on all that money they saved with Bush.
 
M

maximum360

Member
So far it's mostly a McCain love-fest on CNN. They did mention him cheating on his first wife and her drug addiction but they glossed over how much he changed since the 2000 elections, only pausing to gush over his 'Maverickness'.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
Oh please. Socialism is as great an idea and as terrible a reality as Libertarianism.
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Totally. Collective enslavement and paternalism is definitely in the same league with the notion of leaving people the fuck alone and trusting them to make their own decisions.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
Oh please. Socialism is as great an idea and as terrible a reality as Libertarianism.
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Yeah. One of those "it sounds good" but it just doesn't work in reality type deals. I think they both could work on a tiny, tiny scale, but generally not as a whole.
 
P

pxleyes

Banned
JayDubya said:
Totally. Collective enslavement and paternalism is definitely in the same league with the notion of leaving people the fuck alone and trusting them to make their own decisions.
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yep, just about.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Lemonz said:
oh yipee, Jeremiah wright coming up...
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Huh? Is this on the news or are you just being paranoid :p

ToyMachine228 said:
Yeah. One of those "it sounds good" but it just doesn't work in reality type deals. I think they both could work on a tiny, tiny scale, but generally not as a whole.
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Socialism means different things in different places. Canada and the UK have policies many Americans would describe as "socialist" in nature, but really... how bad are they? I don't think your life would be awful if you lived in one of those two places.
 
T

TDG

Banned
JayDubya said:
Totally. Collective enslavement and paternalism is definitely in the same league with the notion of leaving people the fuck alone and trusting them to make their own decisions.
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Pretty much. Even with your slant on it, they still both don't work.

You do realize that there was a time when people were left alone and just sort of wandered around, right? And do you know what happened next? They made governments so they could make progress and actually get shit done effectively.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
Pretty much. Even with your slant on it, they still both don't work.

You do realize that there was a time when people were left alone and just sort of wandered around, right? And do you know what happened next? They made governments so they could make progress and actually get shit done effectively.
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You're talking about anarchy. Which is not what I'm about at all, though I guess compared to just how absurdly big the state is right now, I can see the source of confusion.

There are useful functions for government, like being the night watchman and the enforcer of contracts. But your definition of "progress" seems to be the government grabs authority over more stuff. And I have to wonder about effectively... government solutions are rarely efficient and even more rarely effective unless talking about brute force.

In any event, some guy makes some blanket, "what's wrong with socialism? evil rich people need to be taxed more hurr!" so what do you think I'm gonna say?

Back to the regularly scheduled program?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
0820_mainchart.PNG


fivethirtyeight has McCain winning in most of their simulations now.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
most of those libertarian-type republicans renege on their rhetoric once they get into office. like the secretary of the treasury. what does he do? bail out the mortgage companies.

IMO libertarianism is one of those "looks good on paper" things. less gov't is a good thing to aim for, though, regardless of party affiliation
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Tyrone Slothrop said:
most of those libertarian-type republicans renege on their rhetoric once they get into office. like the secretary of the treasury. what does he do? bail out the mortgage companies.
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I think the key word there is Republican. ;)
 
T

TDG

Banned
JayDubya said:
In any event, some guy makes some blanket, "what's wrong with socialism? evil rich people need to be taxed more hurr!" so what do you think I'm gonna say?

Back to the regularly scheduled program?
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Believe me, you said exactly what I would expect you to say. I didn't expect you to let that one pass.

We'll just end this debate before it starts.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
Diablos said:
Socialism means different things in different places. Canada and the UK have policies many Americans would describe as "socialist" in nature, but really... how bad are they? I don't think your life would be awful if you lived in one of those two places.
Click to expand...

Socialism as a comprehensive form of government is what I am referring to in general. There are elements of socialism in just about every country's form of democracy. Public school in the United States for example. But that doesn't mean it's socialist, or we're socialist, it's just a "social" element.

like a city in the ocean?
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Yes, like Malta.
 
D

Diablos

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Socialism as a comprehensive form of government is what I am referring to in general. There are elements of socialism in just about every country's form of democracy. Public school in the United States for example. But that doesn't mean it's socialist, or we're socialist, it's just a "social" element.
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Tell that to the millions of Americans who call Canadians and various Europeans Socialst scumbags for having all kinds of special government-run programs for people. As if it is so awful that people can seek more help from the government.
 
K

kkaabboomm

Member
Diablos said:
If he announces now, it'll be perceived as old news by the MSM since McCain will likely be announcing on Monday.
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joke post? something about some sort of convention starting monday, and going through thursday, where mccain could in theory try and divert attention away from with a VP pick but in reality will announce friday, when the convention is over and he can try and mute any poll bump with a VP announcement heading into labor day then his convention?
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Diablos said:
Tell that to the millions of Americans who call Canadians and various Europeans Socialst scumbags...
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Yo!

However:
a) We can spell!
b) "Scumbag" is optional, and usually left off for politeness.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
Diablos said:
Tell that to the millions of Americans who call Canadians and various Europeans Socialst scumbags for having all kinds of special government-run programs for people. As if it is so awful that people can seek more help from the government.
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That's what I said in my original post on this topic. Most Americans associate the word socialism with certain things, not what it actually is by definition.
 
M

monchi-kun

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
That's what I said in my original post on this topic. Most Americans associate the word socialism with certain things, not what it actually is by definition.
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the uneducated are easily influenced
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
0820_mainchart.PNG


fivethirtyeight has McCain winning in most of their simulations now.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
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Who would have thought that McCain would be out-schooling Obama's campaign this early. Early on McCain was the one randomly throwing different punches, hoping for something to stick. Now it's Obama, but he seems too dazed to even attempt to defend himself.
 
D

Diablos

Member
This is quite a bounce for McCain, for being a period of time where no one is supposed to be giving a shit.

I expected things to stay the same until after the conventions. This is really weird.
 
D

Diablos

Member
monchi-kun: I sincerely doubt that.

To be honest, the Obama campaign for the last two months just hasn't been as aggressive as McCain.

I'm not implying that Obama needs to engage in wedge politics, turn into a huge liar, cheat -- but he really does need to start punching back a bit harder. I'll take him for his word today that he's not going to let McCain get away with this stuff so easily in the future. I applaud him for trying to stay on the "high road", but he might have to get down in the mud with McCain at times since that's where a lot of swing voters seem to be, too.

Tyrone Slothrop said:
too early, too early, too early.

no worries. well. worry a little, maybe.
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:lol

It's early, but this news is not good news for Obama regardless.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Who would have thought that McCain would be out-schooling Obama's campaign this early. Early on McCain was the one randomly throwing different punches, hoping for something to stick. Now it's Obama, but he seems too dazed to even attempt to defend himself.
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Sad thing is, it's not anything relating to policy that stuck. It was about character, and it's a hypocritical lie, no less.

Again.

I'm still a wee bit optimistic - there were some encouraging state polling done in the last two days, and I don't think the polling picks up the voter registration efforts, enthusiasm gap or ground game. And it's August, FFS.

But the national numbers just show that negative, personal attacks work (not that we needed another election to prove it). The most worrying bit was from the NBC/WSJ poll that had Obama up by three points: eight in ten though McCain would have policies very similar to Bush. But nearly half support him anyways. So Obama's main message so far, that McCain = Bush appears to be sticking.

But a lot of people don't care.
 
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