Support NeoGAF

[BobLoblaw]

Can't wait to see Biden debate Palin.

It's going to be a bloodbath.

This has been said to death, but it bears repeating. It will not end well. :lol Any gains McCain and co. make in the next few days will be washed away in the VP debate. I can say for sure that it's my most anticipated tv broadcast in years, if not ever.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It seems that a splitscreen format gave a very different impression. Can someone find out who presented it in each style? It would be interesting to see the ratings and how it was presented on each channel.

I can say this much: C-SPAN 1 used split-screen, C-SPAN 2 didn't.

 

[The Librarian]

Hi PoliGAF! I'm heading out to the rally soon (in about an hour). Should be fun.

 

[The Chosen One]

For Biden, it's like a grown man playing basketball one-on-one with a 6 year-old. If he swats every ball and dunks and hangs on the rim with his nuts on her face, then he'll come off as big bully and a jerk. He just needs to play very passive defense. Don't even put his hands up. Just let her airball her own shots. Then when he gets the ball just make some nice easy layups and mid-range jumpers like it's no thing.

If he does that, he'll breeze through the debate without any incidents.

 

[JacksUsername]

The main problem with this debate was that both candidates didn't really settle in for about 40 minutes. I felt once the debate hit the foreign policy issue, both candidates actually started to show their differences, and both came off very strong and dedicated to their proposed solutions.

The entire first economic portion seemed like a mess. Granted, this wasn't originally suppose to the be the topic discussed, so I can understand the candidates stumbling over their words and trying to collect their thoughts, but it's scary that neither one of them seems to have a very detailed plan to help out with the crisis. Both spoke of very general ideas, and they were arguing over semantics instead of proposals. Basic health care for everyone would be nice, as would cutting out all the frivolous spending in Washington, but that doesn't really help solve the problems that we're having with the banks, neither does it help all the mortgage foreclosures. Obama and McCain were looking for reasons to argue, instead of having a strong platform to argue for.

 

[The Chosen One]

This has been said to death, but it bears repeating. It will not end well. :lol Any gains McCain and co. make in the next few days will be washed away in the VP debate. I can say for sure that it's my most anticipated tv broadcast in years, if not ever.

The McCain campaign tried to get the debate more structured for Palin, but it won't help much. With a 90 minute debate it just means there will be a lot more questions, some of which could catch her by surprise. 90 minutes is just a long time. She can't hide. She basically has to avoid any and all follow-up questions. This means her first answer has to be passable. Most of the follow up questions in the Couric and Gibson interviews that tripped her up were because her original answer wasn't sufficient, so Couric/Gibson pressed her for specifics.

THAT SAID, Palin was so much worse in the Couric interview than she was in the Gibson interview, which could mean she had a bad day. Maybe she got rattled and lost her confidence due to all the criticism since the Gibson interview. If she gets her nerve back she may not do as terrible as we're all expecting in the VP debate.

 

[Stridone]

Being a European, I've missed everything in the past 12 hours. Can someone give me a quick summary of how the debate went?

EDIT: Ah, PoliGAF hasn't moved on yet, I'll read the past few pages.

 

[Haunted]

For Biden, it's like a grown man playing basketball one-on-one with a 6 year-old. If he swats every ball and dunks and hangs on the rim with his nuts on her face, then he'll come off as big bully and a jerk. He just needs to play very passive defense. Don't even put his hands up. Just let her airball her own shots. Then when he gets the ball just make some nice easy layups and mid-range jumpers like it's no thing.

If he does that, he'll breeze through the debate without any incidents.

:lol

 

[greepoman]

This has been said to death, but it bears repeating. It will not end well. :lol Any gains McCain and co. make in the next few days will be washed away in the VP debate. I can say for sure that it's my most anticipated tv broadcast in years, if not ever.

I dunno, maybe the whole fiasco about "moving the VP debate" and her "terrible practice debate" were all part of the plan to set the bar even lower.

If we were to go by this thread...if she were to able to get through it without breaking into tears it would be a success.

I really don't see how it's going to be the disaster people think it will be. She'll give a bunch of canned answers that don't answer the question but sound "folksy" and maybe throw out a word that rhymes with smh-smortion and the conservative base will eat it up. And if she can just shore up the conservative base then that will be considered a win for her.

 

[ViperVisor]

Palin will throw well prepared multi-fuse bombs in Biden's direction.

Biden should give good solid answers and only toss back the firecracker equivalent. He looks solid and not an ass like McCain while Palin inevitably blows off her fingers 1 by 1.

 

[Shaheed79]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

 

[Schlep]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Isn't there an inherent contradiction between McCain's quip about Obama being too far on the left to reach across the aisle to and the commercial hammering home how many times he said he agreed with McCain?

 

[sprsk]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Isn't there an inherent contradiction between McCain's quip about Obama being too far on the left to reach across the aisle to and the commercial hammering home how many times he said he agreed with McCain?

McCain is for both more and less Deregulation.

McCain contradicting himself is fairly normal for the man.

 

[JzeroT1437]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

You forgot to use the word "sheeple" and suggest something about anarchy.

 

[Funky Papa]

Isn't there an inherent contradiction between McCain's quip about Obama being too far on the left to reach across the aisle to and the commercial hammering home how many times he said he agreed with McCain?

Pepaw was way over his bedtime, cut him some slack.

 

[gkryhewy]

Good stuff from 538, as usual:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/why-voters-thought-obama-won.html

Saturday, September 27, 2008
Why Voters Thought Obama Won
TPM has the internals of the CNN poll of debate-watchers, which had Obama winning overall by a margin of 51-38. The poll suggests that Obama is opening up a gap on connectedness, while closing a gap on readiness.

Specifically, by a 62-32 margin, voters thought that Obama was “more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you”. This is a gap that has no doubt grown because of the financial crisis of recent days. But it also grew because Obama was actually speaking to middle class voters. Per the transcript, McCain never once mentioned the phrase “middle class” (Obama did so three times). And Obama’s eye contact was directly with the camera, i.e. the voters at home. McCain seemed to be speaking literally to the people in the room in Mississippi, but figuratively to the punditry. It is no surprise that a small majority of pundits seemed to have thought that McCain won, even when the polls indicated otherwise; the pundits were his target audience.

Something as simple as Obama mentioning that he’ll cut taxes for “95 percent of working families” is worth, I would guess, a point or so in the national polls. Obama had not been speaking enough about his middle class tax cut; there was some untapped potential there, and Obama may have gotten the message to sink in tonight

By contrast, I don’t think McCain’s pressing Obama on earmarks was time well spent for him. One, it simply is not something that voters care all that much about, given the other pressures the economy faces.

More at the link.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Best Photos from last night!

ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Sleeker]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

I hear what you're saying and I know what you're referring to.

But NeoGAF is not a place that will actively look into that stuff.
Let it be

 

[ViperVisor]

That is like a movie scene, the faces are so perfect.

 

[gkryhewy]

I hear what you're saying and I know what you're referring to.

But NeoGAF is not a place that will actively look into that stuff.
Let it be

Oh no - secret knowledge that I'm missing out on!

 

[Mango Positive]

A lot of you seem to inauspiciously believe that we still live in a pure democracy. I'm not saying do not vote because it's what little power we feel we still have but also try to be a little more aware of the powerful interests who can control and undoubtedly do influence both sides of the aisle. Totalitarian monarchs have simply been replaced with CEO's and the heads of exclusive "secret societies". Maybe this isn't the topic to bring this up but it breaks my heart to see so many people on gaf settling on the bottom of Plato's Cave and accepting everything they see as reality.

I've wondered for a while if the whole "Republicans Vs. Democrats" mentality is nothing more than a dog and pony show. Where are the 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties? It's as if people think that their ideals can be represented across the board by two narrowly defined categories. Republicans focus on issues such as security, religion, moral values, while Democrats focus on societal betterment. When the elections roll around, we get stupid wedge issues, like religion and abortion, both of which have nothing to do with leading a country, that only really serve to paint our positions in black and white. It's like they are two sides to the same coin. You can vote for one of two people chosen by other people who have a lot of money / political influence. Where's the brilliant accountant who actually COULD lead us out of a crisis? Where are the men with brilliant IQ's who after manipulating the DNA of a mouse to cure cancer, decides to help us with our comparatively simple problems? Why are all of our presidents millionaires?

I'm voting for Obama, but I can't help but think a lot of this is scripted to give us the illusion that we have a choice.

 

[JayDubya]

My sleep schedule's all messed up, so midway through the debate I took my daughter to bed to play DQIV - she insists on this as a bedtime ritual, in fact, as she wants to watch "the dragon."

Incidentally, she's also got her dragons crossed, as she thinks the Zenith Dragon is somehow Sylphie from FFV, sick and in desperate need of that special grass, so she insists that I go get medicine for most dragons in most games unless I explain otherwise that these dragons are bad guys and those are not. Anyhoo...

Crashed. Conked out. Grandpa McCain has a later bedtime than me. :lol I'll bet since I went to sleep first, she probably got out of bed and ran around like a hooligan unless Mama caught her.

Slept through the damn thing. Funny thing, too - when I checked in on GAF during the debate, page 57. I guessed maybe four more pages, 5 more pages... nope, 71 now. :lol

So, instead of asking for highlights - do you guys know if the whole thing is still hosted anywhere?

 

[ViperVisor]

http://www.c-span.org/

Realplayer

 

[gkryhewy]

By the way, McCain being simply unwilling or unable to look Obama in the eye was a strong TV image. Weak and passive-aggressive - angry toward the audience, but unwilling to look the target of his anger in the eye.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm voting for Obama, but I can't help but think a lot of this is scripted to give us the illusion that we have a choice.

I've wondered the same thing. Sometimes even out loud.

But the voices tell me not to worry about such a thing. I often wonder if they're warning me that I'm getting too close to the truth. Then they usually tell me an antisemitic joke to lighten the mood.

They don't trust white people is what I'm getting at. Makes it hard to be white with Jewish blood with some of these guys cluttering up my head with nonsense.

 

[Pimpwerx]

The debate was a tie to the same people who felt Dubya conducted himself well against Gore, or that Arnold did well in his one Cali debate. McCain's argument came down to a bunch of non-sequitors (yes, it made the start of the debate rather lively, but it's bullocks for interviews/debates), personal anecdotes and shoehorned soundbites. There were some good points he made, but Obama made more of them. Obama, though not concise, made a better attempt at answering the questions with his plans for the future. There were some questions he skirted, but they both did.

I hate how it's en vogue to just let the candidates run roughshod over the moderator or the debate format. I wanted Lehrer to grow a pair and call bullshit on some responses. Counter-question, dammit. We don't need 5 minutes of "well I went there and spoke to this soldier's family and blah blah blah..." That's not answering the fucking question. That's a sob story designed o elicit some sympathy for what is otherwise an empty response with no clear solution for the future.

Again, if people watching last night came away impressed with McCain's end, then there's not much hope left. Not coming off as a complete idiot is not winning or tying a debate. He didn't bumble or dodder, but are the classic conservative non-answers really gonna pass as acceptable for a third straight election? Didn't we kill Dole for this same lack of clarity in '96? PEACE.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Hey guys. Anything new happened after the debate? New state polls or anything like that?


As for the debate,

I thought the debate was boring. Nothing different that came out of their mouths than what we've heard from the two on the campaign trail. Obama was the underdog last night and held his ground. McCain spoke softly and carried a big stick. Both spoke well. Only problem I didn't like from what McCain were the lies, like Obama voted to raise taxes on income over $40,000. Obama also should've used more facts on McCain and the Bush tax cuts, like savings and investment has decreased over the past 8 years, or wages have stagnated and have not kept up with inflation. Maybe he'll talk about that when the real debate on economics happen.

 

[The Chosen One]

By the way, McCain being simply unwilling or unable to look Obama in the eye was a strong TV image. Weak and passive-aggressive - angry toward the audience, but unwilling to look the target of his anger in the eye.

He can supposedly stare down Putin but he can't look at Obama directly in the eye. :lol

With neither one making any major mistakes, the whole "McCain didn't look at Obama" narrative is really catching on in the media. It seems a lot of people noticed it.

 

[Mermandala]

My sleep schedule's all messed up, so midway through the debate I took my daughter to bed to play DQIV - she insists on this as a bedtime ritual, in fact, as she wants to watch "the dragon."

Incidentally, she's also got her dragons crossed, as she thinks the Zenith Dragon is somehow Sylphie from FFV, sick and in desperate need of that special grass, so she insists that I go get medicine for most dragons in most games unless I explain otherwise that these dragons are bad guys and those are not. Anyhoo...

JayDubya the magic medicine grass dragon doctor is the cutest JayDubya post ever.

 

[joey_z]

I've wondered for a while if the whole "Republicans Vs. Democrats" mentality is nothing more than a dog and pony show. Where are the 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties? It's as if people think that their ideals can be represented across the board by two narrowly defined categories. Republicans focus on issues such as security, religion, moral values, while Democrats focus on societal betterment. When the elections roll around, we get stupid wedge issues, like religion and abortion, both of which have nothing to do with leading a country, that only really serve to paint our positions in black and white. It's like they are two sides to the same coin. You can vote for one of two people chosen by other people who have a lot of money / political influence. Where's the brilliant accountant who actually COULD lead us out of a crisis? Where are the men with brilliant IQ's who after manipulating the DNA of a mouse to cure cancer, decides to help us with our comparatively simple problems? Why are all of our presidents millionaires?

I'm voting for Obama, but I can't help but think a lot of this is scripted to give us the illusion that we have a choice.

It's all quite simple. Plato's Gorgias did a good job at trying to answer this problem. Having knowledge doesn't necessarily mean you have political leverage or have good people skills to motivate people. Likewise, having the skills required to be a good politician doesn't require being knowledgable. However, it is in a nation's best interest for a candidate to posess both attributes. Yet sometimes, given the scarcity of money, it is impossible to find such a candidate that can save a country via knowledge and at the same time persistantly motivate the nation to follow him and gain their trust. Knowledge is hard to come by and one needs to spend countless years in trying to attain it, whilst the opportunity cost for doing so can very well be political isolation that is just so important for one to refine his or her rapport with the people.

Eitherway, money is needed to contest and to fund. The smartest guy with the best people skills would find it hard to beat a moron from a party that has enough cash to promote him. It's all about marketability and power politics.

And thus you vote. Try to choose the person that is least likely to fuck up your country as much as the other candidate will. No two candidates are equally alike.

 

[Hitokage]

"Book knowledge from an elite ivy school, versus a lifetime of real experience at the Hanoi Hilton."

:lol

How do you people not find this Colbert/Onion hilarious?

Because there's no wink at the end, people seriously believe that shit, and some of these people actually hold political power?

Yeah, real hilarious.

 

[legend166]

For Biden, it's like a grown man playing basketball one-on-one with a 6 year-old. If he swats every ball and dunks and hangs on the rim with his nuts on her face, then he'll come off as big bully and a jerk. He just needs to play very passive defense. Don't even put his hands up. Just let her airball her own shots. Then when he gets the ball just make some nice easy layups and mid-range jumpers like it's no thing.

If he does that, he'll breeze through the debate without any incidents.

That's the best analogy I've ever read on GAF. Well played, sir.

 

[Nerevar]

I've wondered for a while if the whole "Republicans Vs. Democrats" mentality is nothing more than a dog and pony show. Where are the 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties?

It's because America has an electoral college, pure and simple. Winner take all. Because of that there's little to no room for third parties to make a splash at a national level. If you look at your local elections you'll notice a lot of random third parties that nominate candidates and sometimes get elected to state and local legislature because the pool is smaller and the proportional vote counts make a bigger difference. For example, on my local ballot there was a Green Party, Rainbow Party, and Working Families candidate. The only time the major parties have changed are when seismic cultural and political events have occurred in our history (think end of slavery, Civil War, panic of 1870s & 90s which was worse overall than the Great Depression, etc).

Besides, in parliamentary systems you have coalitions that are constantly shifting deciding what issues take priority and what side the government stands on. In America those coalitions are already solidified in the two parties (Republicans - ostensibly small government, less taxes, socially conservative, religious authority, etc; Democrats - big government, minority interests, government welfare & healthcare, etc). The reality is that most people fall somewhere in the middle on those issues and those are the "swing" voters that the big parties court without trying to alienate their bases.

 

[Askani]

Has this been posted?

http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1

"The Barack Obama campaign is asking Missouri law enforcement to target anyone who lies or runs a misleading TV ad during the presidential campaign."

So Barack Obama's campaign is enrolling Barack supporting law enforcement officers and prosecutors to join a "Truth Squad" and use their official government jobs to threaten political speech they determine to be "untruthful" or "misleading."

What the fuck is this shit?

No matter who you are voting for, this should piss everyone off, especially those who live in Missouri. Don't tell me that you, a public official, is going to join "The Obama Truth Squad", along with other law enforcement officials, and go after anyone who runs a misleading ad without mentioning doing the same for the other candidate. Even if you think Obama is not running any misleading ads against McCain this should piss you off. No, they didn't say "we're going after bad McCain ads", but that's clearly the intent.

 

[Cloudy]

I still don't believe the VP debate will happen. No freakin' way..

 

[Hitokage]

Obama won mostly on body language and demeanor.

If you were just getting the audio, then it's easy to conclude that he got steamrollered.

Ok, this election needs to stop copying the 1960 election, now.

 

[3rdman]

For Biden, it's like a grown man playing basketball one-on-one with a 6 year-old. If he swats every ball and dunks and hangs on the rim with his nuts on her face, then he'll come off as big bully and a jerk. He just needs to play very passive defense. Don't even put his hands up. Just let her airball her own shots. Then when he gets the ball just make some nice easy layups and mid-range jumpers like it's no thing.

If he does that, he'll breeze through the debate without any incidents.

LOL...cereal everywhere!

 

[StoOgE]

For Biden, it's like a grown man playing basketball one-on-one with a 6 year-old. If he swats every ball and dunks and hangs on the rim with his nuts on her face, then he'll come off as big bully and a jerk. He just needs to play very passive defense. Don't even put his hands up. Just let her airball her own shots. Then when he gets the ball just make some nice easy layups and mid-range jumpers like it's no thing.

If he does that, he'll breeze through the debate without any incidents.

I said something similar, Biden needs to play his game and show he knows his stuff. Let Palin slit her own throat. She has done 3 interviews and managed to do it 3 times already. Just let the contrast speak for itself, dont go after her.

Biden said something similar last night as well, I think on the MSNBC interview (who knows, I saw 3 of his interviews). He basically said "look, im not there to beat Palin, Im there to speak to the american people". I think they know how to play this to, they are smart guys.

I mean, why try and hurt someones credibility when they are so much better at it themselves.

 

[Odrion]

JayDubya the magic medicine grass dragon doctor is the cutest JayDubya post ever.

i wonder if he ever gets angry every time the game gives him a free potion :b

 

[mclem]

Maher in response to Palin's "Putin over our airspace" comment:

"That was the sentence to nowhere. Forget the bridge to nowhere."

Should have been reversed. Punchline goes at the end.

 

[Amir0x]

Thank Extollere. Maybe Amir0x will update the first post or mention to look at first post if he puts it in there..............

Stop slacking, Ami! This type of stuff is your forte.

updated I was sleeping. Also, you can edit my post if you wanted to put the link in :lol

Anyway, something I don't think has been discussed much after the debate though it was mentioned a lot before.

What, if any, impact do you believe the politics of the 'image' played in the outcome of the debate? Do you think it was startling to many voters to see McCain and Obama side by side, or do you think McCain managed to not appear outdated?

 

[Cloudy]

Obama up 6 (50-44) on Rasmussen

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ial_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

 

[Stoney Mason]

I think gaf missed the boat because they seemed to have judged the debate in terms of who was simply on the attack more versus actually landing effective shots. Mccain was certainly more aggresive but a lot of it simply didn't land. To be honest I didn't especially notice the eye contact although Mccain does come off as more condescending and cranky than Obama. He does the best he can with it but it's still a factor.

 

[WickedAngel]

I think gaf missed the boat because they seemed to have judged the debate in terms of who was simply on the attack more versus actually landing effective shots. Mccain was certainly more aggresive but a lot of it simply didn't land. To be honest I didn't especially notice the eye contact although Mccain does come off as more condescending and cranky than Obama. He does the best he can with it but it's still a factor.

All of GAF didn't miss the boat, sir.

 

[Odrion]

updated I was sleeping. Also, you can edit my post if you wanted to put the link in :lol

Anyway, something I don't think has been discussed much after the debate though it was mentioned a lot before.

What, if any, impact do you believe the politics of the 'image' played in the outcome of the debate? Do you think it was startling to many voters to see McCain and Obama side by side, or do you think McCain managed to not appear outdated?

Obama came out as an intellectual who looks like he knows what to do, this is probably a more effective image than we think considering the times we're in.

McCain came out as a tough fighter and managed to not look like a senile bastard up until the end when he kept telling stories.

 

[Cloudy]

I didn't especially notice the eye contact although Mccain does come off as more condescending and cranky than Obama.

I didn't think much of it either but someone watching with me mentioned it 2 minutes in :lol

I personally thought Obama had more substance but for the uninformed, McCain's lies and forcefulness would make it a draw..

 

[avaya]

Obama cleaning up. Biden will let Palin fall of a cliff next Thursday.

Now just get the damn Paulson plan + convenants passed, no other bullshit, and we can all continue on our merry way.

 

[StoOgE]

Another good point,

I think Obama saying "Look, John is right" and being very respectfull were helpfull to Obama. Women like concilitory gestures and people finding middle ground. McCain refused to do this, he kept saying "obama is naive", etc.

So not only did he look like an angry old man who wouldnt look Obama in the eye, he failed to find middle ground and looked more like a partisan hack for it.