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[Byakuya769]

It's really not that hard. The majority of the nation doesn't want the healthcare bill. Nobody in the democratic party seems to listen to that. Scott Brown represented an opportunity to prevent the bill from happening. Also, it would be political suicide to force the HCR vote before Brown is seated.

Additionally, in general, the american people don't like supermajority's. Our system isn't really designed for that - its designed to be slow and plodding, full of compromise and debates. I know that frustrates many people.

You are right. I fear that we will all get front seats in watching this nation slowly plod to obscurity. Then years from now some of us will be sitting around wondering what happened. Why are our graduation rates around 60%. Why is health care far too expensive? Why have wages been stagnant for the last 50 years. Why has our economy been equivalent to cyclical bubbles? I really wonder what historians will say about it all.

This isn't just my general reaction to the election. It has more to do with how I am seeing inertia ruling the roost in this nation.

 

[Aaron Strife]

So, as an ignorant Australian, what does obama losing his seat or whatever actually mean?

Senate = institution in which our bills are passed

60 seats can break filibuster which block legislation from reaching final vote (which only needs 50 + 1 to pass, that 1 either being 51 senate votes or 50 senate votes and the vice president breaking the tie)

Health care reform, no doubt Obama's biggest priority and litmus test of how much he'll win/suck, barely passed with just 60 votes, all coming from the Democratic caucus.

Putting Scott Brown in the senate brings his votes down to 59.

This is not a very good situation, but it's still salvageable.

 

[thefit]

This was not a result of the tea bag movement, he appealed to independent voters and won them over. I'm in Massachusetts and I followed the campaign avidly. Don't call me ignorant or ill informed. He ran on the idea that the seat wouldn't be a for republicans, it would be a seat for the people of Massachusetts. But then again i am conservative so I'm in bliss anyway.

:lol

"Hi I'm a Republican running to win not for the Republicans. Vote for me The Republican"
:lol :lol

 

[GashPrex]

For a law student you are pretty ignorant.

oh i can't wait to be educated - if you can't see this being an election about HCR, then I am not sure what to say. Personally, I am for HCR - even this bill as constituted but that doesn't mean I can't take a step back and look at what happened tonight.

<waits for ad hominem attacks>

 

[thebigtony]

You're delusional. You're also wrong about tort reform.

Please explain or point me in the right direction because i always welcome more knowledge.

 

[Vilix]

The Republicans aren't interested in compromise or debate.

Neither are the democrats or liberials, so what's your point?

 

[Evlar]

The current bill simply will not work. It does not address the true problems with healthcare. Why cap the amount Doctors get payed by the insurance agencies but not the amount malpractice lawyers get paid in a lawsuit. That's a huge reason why the premiums are so high. And if you say otherwise you are misinformed.

So you voted for him because you think he'll be able to convince 19 Democrats to join Republicans to pass federal medical malpractice tort reform and call that Health Care Reform?

Do you honestly believe this has any chance of happening?

 

[thekad]

Neither are the democrats or liberials, so what's your point?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

wait wait wait

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[thebigtony]

:lol

"Hi I'm a Republican running to win not for the Republicans. Vote for me The Republican"
:lol :lol

You laugh but that's how he won.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Neither are the democrats or liberials, so what's your point?

Are you saying that the Democrats have not compromised at all?

.....................



btw, whats a liberial?

 

[thefit]

You laugh but that's how he won.

Thats why I'm laughing :lol

 

[tanod]

I'm hoping that what really comes out of this is the ejection of Lieberman from the Dem caucus and the replacement of Reid as majority leader. They need somebody like Pelosi that can get shit done but has some idelogical balls.

Seriously, fuck Reid. Worthless piece of spinless shit.

 

[NetMapel]

Seriously ? What's going on there in the US !? The most liberal's seat in the US went to the GOP ? You guys seriously messed up.

 

[minus_273]

epic win!

also i think newsweek (of all places) has summed it up well

"It will be many years before a candidate for public office again goes on vacation three weeks before an election or shows disrespect for local sports fans. "

i.e. dont fuck with fenway.

 

[thebigtony]

So you voted for him because you think he'll be able to convince 19 Democrats to join Republicans to pass federal medical malpractice tort reform and call that Health Care Reform?

Do you honestly believe this has any chance of happening?

Nope, but i that's only one problem with the bill riddled with issues. I simply don't support the bill in its current state. And no, I don't think republicans will add tort reform unfortunately. However the bill still needs to be reworked.

 

[Diablos]

If Obama cannot figure out a way to pass something, he's going to look like such a jackass. His options should be either pass the Senate bill, or reconciliation. Doing nothing should not be an option unless he wants to take a crushing blow that will harm his reputation for a long, long time. I know the House is signaling for no action at the moment, but that could change. It had better.

Oh fuck, I am not looking foward to listening to the conservative fanclub at my job tomorrow rambling about how the socialist health care bill is dead.

Yes, a mandate on private insurance is socialism. My fucking god, when did the US electorate become so fucking braindead? -_-

thebigtony: Coakley was a bad candidate, but do you realize what this means? Do you honestly think Scott Brown will prove to be a truly independent voice and work with Dems on stuff? He's going to get a kick out of being "the 41st vote" and block everything Obama does. Is that what you honestly wanted? YOU VOTED FOR THE GOP'S 41st VOTE!

 

[SimpleDesign]

Democrats obviously need to move closer to the right and listen to and compromise with republicans. They're way too liberal, which is why they just lost.

 

[WickedAngel]

Please explain or point me in the right direction because i always welcome more knowledge.

I'm not one to fall for that, really; you made a factually incorrect statement. Why should I spend my time and energy sourcing why it is wrong? You're the one who needs the knowledge; go look for it.

 

[Averon]

Does this win immediately elevates Brown to presidential contender territory?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/on-future-and-branding-of-scott-brown.html

FiveThirtyEight thinks so. And I'd have to agree.

 

[minus_273]

Seriously ? What's going on there in the US !? The most liberal's seat in the US went to the GOP ? You guys seriously messed up.

well, the democratic candidate was so sure she was going to win the "kennedy seat" she treated the election as a formality and literally went on vacation instead.

 

[Vilix]

Are you saying that the Democrats have not compromised at all?

Just like when dems say Republicans never have.

 

[tanod]

Does this win immediately elevates Brown to presidential contender territory?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/on-future-and-branding-of-scott-brown.html

FiveThirtyEight thinks so. And I'd have to agree.

See also: Sarah Palin.

They got themselves some high standards for Republican presidential candidates. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Mooreberg]

epic win!

also i think newsweek (of all places) has summed it up well

"It will be many years before a candidate for public office again goes on vacation three weeks before an election or shows disrespect for local sports fans. "

i.e. dont fuck with fenway.

Those are funny quotes but they don't have much to do with it. A lot of people I know were turned off by the negative attack ads. Her campaign didn't really say anything nice about him in a single one of them.

 

[jamesinclair]

You laugh but that's how he won.

Lets look at extracts of his victory speech:


"Most of all, I will remember that while the honor is mine, this Senate seat belongs to no one person and no political party - and as I have said before, and you said loud and clear today, it is the people’s seat."

Ok, sure, hes claiming he's independent....


"I especially thank a friend who was there with encouragement from the very beginning, and helped show us the way to victory - former Governor Mitt Romney."

Hm, Mitt Romney isnt exactly the shining beacon of independence...


"I’ll never forget the help of another man who took the time to meet with me months ago - who told me I could win, and gave me confidence for the fight. It was all so characteristic of a truly great and heroic American, and tonight I thank my new colleague, Senator John McCain. "

Oh I see where this is going.


"This bill is not being debated openly and fairly. It will raise taxes, hurt Medicare, destroy jobs, and run our nation deeper into debt. It is not in the interest of our state or country - we can do better.
...
an across the board tax cut for individuals and businesses that will create jobs and stimulate the economy. It's that simple!

I will work in the Senate to defend our nation’s interests and to keep our military second to none. As a lieutenant colonel and 30-year member of the Army National Guard, I will keep faith with all who serve, and get our veterans all the benefits they deserve.

And let me say this, with respect to those who wish to harm us, I believe that our Constitution and laws exist to protect this nation - they do not grant rights and privileges to enemies in wartime. In dealing with terrorists, our tax dollars should pay for weapons to stop them, not lawyers to defend them."



He's mr teaparty.

 

[NetMapel]

I think this will only create momentum for the GOP. Fox is going to be on this story 24/7 until 2010 and people will talk about how it's all over for the Dems. You messed up big time this time, Americans.

 

[thefit]

Democrats do nothing but compromise its why we are were we are. I think at this point we are all pretty much out of outrage at the amount of compromising the Dems have done just in the last year and for what? This? Fuck Reid and fuck emanuel and fuck Obama for listening to them. Progressives voted in the Democrats to run under a progressive agenda and so far they have shat on that and to make things worst whenever anyone suggests that maybe they should be a bit more to the left the powers that be bring up "compromise" as if thats what we voted for.

 

[140.85]

I'm not sure a wake-up call gets any more blatant than a Republican winning Ted Kennedy's seat. If Democrats and Obama double-down after this they're in for a world of hurt me thinks.

 

[Vilix]

well, the democratic candidate was so sure she was going to win the "kennedy seat" she treated the election as a formality and literally went on vacation instead.

Are you sure it had nothing to do with voters in Massachusetts seeing bailout of banks, loss of jobs, no real improvement, and a healthcare reform bill that has become so screwed up that no one wants? Even a considerable number of liberal GAF has said the bill is not something they want now. But, it's better than nothing. Right, fellas? Right?

 

[BigBoss]

Democrats obviously need to move closer to the right and listen to and compromise with republicans. They're way too liberal, which is why they just lost.

Good one. :lol

 

[Diablos]

See also: Sarah Palin.

They got themselves some high standards for Republican presidential candidates. I wouldn't be surprised.

He's pro-choice, though. He could change, but GOPers tend to not forget about their past in the primary and handicap their chances of running a solid candidate.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Just like when dems say Republicans never have.

Since Obama has taken office, they have not. This is all about the current administration and the current congress. So why does it matter that they have done so some time in the past?

 

[Evlar]

Just like when dems say Republicans never have.

Obviously, if the Democrats have never compromised than neither have the Republicans, assuming those are the only two parties involved. It is impossible to compromise unilaterally.

Of course, the Democrats did weaken the bill with the excuse of attempting to compromise, and excuse that looks silly after the fact: their concessions did not produce any actual reciprocal concessions from the Republicans. But that's not compromise, it's farce.

(One could argue that the Democrats spent considerable time and good will among their base by granting concessions to the hostile Connecticut for Lieberman Party, resulting in a compromise which survived about a month).

 

[thefit]

He's pro-choice, though. He could change, but GOPers tend to not forget about their past in the primary and handicap their chances of running a solid candidates.

But he's not pro-choice he flipped flopped on that too.

 

[Mooreberg]

But he's not pro-choice he flipped flopped on that too.

MA likes flip floppy senators.

 

[thebigtony]

I'm not one to fall for that, really; you made a factually incorrect statement. Why should I spend my time and energy sourcing why it is wrong? You're the one who needs the knowledge; go look for it.

I have looked for it and all of the information indicates tort reform is a huge issue with health insurance premiums. And this attitude that you don't want to source it is flat out bullshit, and i've heard it before. "this is not a seminar". That attitude is why the majority of this country is misinformed on political issues. That is the attitude that initiated the absolute stupidity that's happening in the republican party right now. It doesn't accomplish anything. So if you want people to be informed i suggest you inform them.

But he's not pro-choice he flipped flopped on that too.

He is pro-choice.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Democrats obviously need to move closer to the right and listen to and compromise with republicans. They're way too liberal, which is why they just lost.

Yes, hopefully their forthcoming conservatism will move them up to full fascist status to match the Republicans.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Democrats do nothing but compromise its why we are were we are. I think at this point we are all pretty much out of outrage at the amount of compromising the Dems have done just in the last year and for what? This? Fuck Reid and fuck emanuel and fuck Obama for listening to them. Progressives voted in the Democrats to run under a progressive agenda and so far they have shat on that and to make things worst whenever anyone suggests that maybe they should be a bit more to the left the powers that be bring up "compromise" as if thats what we voted for.

This

 

[Diablos]

Yes, Democrats were so liberal when they:

-Agreed to make tax cuts a huge part of the stimulus because that's what conservatives favored

-Committed more troops to Afghanistan despite a near-demand from the liberal wing of the party that he not do so, receiving praise from many conservatives, such as Gingrich and Palin

-Agreed to kill the public option and national health exchange as a means to attract conservatives

 

[Particle Physicist]

I'm not sure a wake-up call gets any more blatant than a Republican winning Ted Kennedy's seat. If Democrats and Obama double-down after this they're in for a world of hurt me thinks.

Republicans doubled-down after their 'wake-up call.' Seems to have worked for them.

 

[teiresias]

Democrats do nothing but compromise its why we are were we are. I think at this point we are all pretty much out of outrage at the amount of compromising the Dems have done just in the last year and for what? This? Fuck Reid and fuck emanuel and fuck Obama for listening to them. Progressives voted in the Democrats to run under a progressive agenda and so far they have shat on that and to make things worst whenever anyone suggests that maybe they should be a bit more to the left the powers that be bring up "compromise" as if thats what we voted for.

.

 

[minus_273]

Are you sure it had nothing to do with voters in Massachusetts the seeing bailout of banks, loss of jobs, and no real improvement in their lives this past year?

or the prospect of certain states (nebraska) getting special federal medical subsides of 100% for ever. sure all of those things contributed.

she went on vacation, saw her lead evaporate and for the last 2 weeks and desperately hammered the airwaves with negative ads going so far to claim he was pro rape.

coakley was such a complete idiot, so sure she owned the seat, she went out of her way to insult both brown and the electorate not even sparing the redsox and fenway park.

 

[besada]

I have looked for it and all of the information indicates tort reform is a huge issue with health insurance premiums. And this attitude that you don't want to source it is flat out bullshit, and i've heard it before. "this is not a seminar". That attitude is why the majority of this country is misinformed on political issues. That is the attitude that initiated the absolute stupidity that's happening in the republican party right now. It doesn't accomplish anything. So if you want people to be informed i suggest you inform them.

Why would he bother to answer you when you ignored me when I answered you and pointed out that you were flatly wrong?

All of what information are you talking about? That GE Medical Protection, the nation's largest malpractice carrier, flatly stated that malpractice caps wouldn't bring down malpractice rates right before they introduced a double-digit increase in Texas six-months after Texas passed malpractice caps?

 

[Byakuya769]

I have looked for it and all of the information indicates tort reform is a huge issue with health insurance premiums. And this attitude that you don't want to source it is flat out bullshit, and i've heard it before. "this is not a seminar". That attitude is why the majority of this country is misinformed on political issues. That is the attitude that initiated the absolute stupidity that's happening in the republican party right now. It doesn't accomplish anything. So if you want people to be informed i suggest you inform them.


He is pro-choice.

This will end in one of us (likely me eventually) taking the bait; Providing you with information that shows explicitly what has already been stated. Then you will skim it, claim you read it, and say that it proved none of your assertions wrong.

Let's be honest here.

 

[AwesomePossum]

I became relegated to Brown's inevitable win over the past couple days, but this still hit like a ton of bricks. Democrats spent half a year trying to get HCR passed only to see it slip away at the one yard line. Something needs to get passed, whether it simply be the Senate bill or something, jeez we just need some sort of infrastructure to get this whole system setup. Ugh, our political system is so damned frustrating.

I know I'm repeating a lot of what's already been said, but jeez, shit sucks!

 

[Sirpopopop]

or the prospect of certain states (nebraska) getting special federal medical subsides of 100% for ever. sure all of those things contributed.

she went on vacation, saw her lead evaporate and for the last 2 weeks and desperately hammered the airwaves with negative ads going so far to claim he was pro rape.

coakley was such a complete idiot, so sure she owned the seat, she went out of her way to insult both brown and the electorate not even sparing the redsox and fenway park.

Hi Curt Schilling.

I hope your game is an epic disaster.

 

[WickedAngel]

I have looked for it and all of the information indicates tort reform is a huge issue with health insurance premiums. And this attitude that you don't want to source it is flat out bullshit, and i've heard it before. "this is not a seminar". That attitude is why the majority of this country is misinformed on political issues. That is the attitude that initiated the absolute stupidity that's happening in the republican party right now. It doesn't accomplish anything. So if you want people to be informed i suggest you inform them.


He is pro-choice.

I'm sure you've heard it before; people who make a habit of spouting factually incorrect, constantly disproven rants about tort reform typically do come up against people who are, quite frankly, tired of doing other peoples' homework for them.

And no, "this attitude" is not why this country is misinformed on political issues. Take some personal responsibility for your ignorance and correct it. The idea that anyone else should be responsible for informing you in the Information Age is laughable.

That is the real problem here and it is a major factor in many of the other failings in our society. Depending on other people, particularly corporate media, to relay information to you is exactly why we get a bastardized application of "Fair and Balanced" reporting that presents both sides of every argument as if they are both equally valid.

 

[HokieJoe]

Well hopefully he is actually a conservative... cut spending, balance the budget. That is all I want right now, a return to surplus and a strong economy. The dems pushing a costly healthcare plan when the economy is in shambles is their downfall. They should have led with extreme finance reforms, and they would still be rolling strong. There is not a political party anymore that is worth a damn, but at least this is good news in the short term. I want health care reform, but not when the country is massively in debt.

The sooner the Democrat electorate jettisons the Progressive assholes running the show right now, the better for them and our country.

 

[Vilix]

Obviously, if the Democrats have never compromised than neither have the Republicans, assuming those are the only two parties involved. It is impossible to compromise unilaterally.

Of course, the Democrats did weaken the bill with the excuse of attempting to compromise, and excuse that looks silly after the fact: their concessions did not produce any actual reciprocal concessions from the Republicans. But that's not compromise, it's farce.

(One could argue that the Democrats spent considerable time and good will among their base by granting concessions to the hostile Connecticut for Lieberman Party, resulting in a compromise which survived about a month).

Be sure to add the "good will" dems gave to Landrieu and Ben Nelson for their votes.

 

[Milabrega]

The sooner the Democrat electorate jettisons the Progressive assholes running the show right now, the better for them and our country.

Progressives? Democrats? What? I mean, I'll give ya Weiner, but he's anything but running the show.

 

[Averon]

The sooner the Democrat electorate jettisons the Progressive assholes running the show right now, the better for them and our country.

If Dems were run by progressives, the the public option would have never been dropped, Lieberman would have lost his committee post and we would had pulled out of Iraq completely months ago.