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[MightyHedgehog]

People don't realize how Obama's experience as a community organizer has translated to his campaign. He's been running on this fundamental principle that if WE organize ourselves, "we the people" as it were, we can stand up to the corporations and special interests and have an equal influence on Washington because after wall, we DO outnumber them.

This knack for bringing people together has translated to his campaign registering voters at a RECORD pace, he has the largest network of small donors in HISTORY and he really means it when he says that we are the ones we've been waiting for.

Yeah, but this doesn't count...remember?

 

[Arde5643]

Oh I get, destroying a 17 year old girl is ok, asking why a canddiate for president is friendly to some degree with an unrepentant terrorist is not.

Do you realize that it was actually the Palin family and McCain camp themselves who released the news that Bristol is pregnant?

 

[mozfan12]

Finally the thread is moving slower.


What I wrote before the speech but did not have time to post.

I would just like to put some stuff out there. You want to know the people who really feel it when the republicans spew this crap and there bad economic policies get in place.. My parents have owned there own company for a while now and they are are the only two people who work there. My dad is an industrial hygienist (indoor air quality, lead testing, mold testing) and they have been doing pretty well and by pretty well I mean they can keep the house have food and do what they need to do. We only have used cars no new cars and my parents are very fiscally responsible people. I have been away from home for a while now since I am in college and have had an internship every summer. Luckily I was able to get a full scholarship to my school or this computer engineering degree would have really put them in debt. This summer I was home for a week before my last semester here and I sat down and talked to my mom about the business and it was really heartbreaking. Since the decline in the economy it has been a lot tougher for them. No one wants to spend money for services so it’s hard to get business. With this jacked up healthcare system my parents have to pay a ridiculous amount of money a month for health insurance and since they are getting older they insurance company has jacked the price up ridiculously. I am sure this is a reality for a lot more small businesses around the country. You want to support the growth of businesses in America and not just big business then put your money where your mouth is republicans and fix the damn economy and stop lying through your teeth. Not everyone has it easy. Your not going to fix anything and I know this.

What I wrote after the speech

After watching the speeches today I do not think I could ever be a republican after this. Sarah stop lying on the bridge to nowhere. Stop saying that community service is laughable because its not. I really resent that. As a student I have done a lot of work in the community and been involved with different mentoring programs and such and to see someone laugh at Obama for what he’s done has actually made me felt like they have no idea what is going on in the world. They aren’t for change unless the change is bad

On another point stop using religion as your party platform. Not everyone in the US is a Christian. Enough said on that point.

Great job pimping your family. You guys really milked it after barrack let it go and said he would not be touching family issues you know that he cant touch that crap and you milked the hell out of it.

Lets stop our oil dependency by drilling for more oil.

I am truly worried about the future of this country more than I ever have been. After seeing the RNC and what they are willing to do to win.

I agree,

I have a republican friend who bitches to me that she cant afford school and that she is all stressed and she still refuses to blame republicans when the majority of the western world has free education, even Mexico and Cuba, have free university.

I have a dad who has three children who some are in college, need to pay rent, need to pay medical expenses, some who are going to need another health care plan after they turn 20, and barely can manage to pay his debts? How the fuck is he gonna get through. I have my own worries with getting college paid, rent, food, gas. I want to help as much as I can but fuck dude, I need the help.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Ok, we have another contender for perfect post . . .

It all jus gibberish lade out with perty words.

 

[JayDubya]

You think Levi isn't paying via forced marriage, etc?

How's that work again?

Also, read the whole link on community organizer. Still don't get what they do, exactly, or who hires them.

However, the same links did lead to Saul Alinsky, who I am quite a bit more familiar with, as the "father of community organization."

:-/

Respect for the profession --

 

[polyh3dron]

Yeah, but this doesn't count...remember?

being a mayor or a town of 7000 people is kinda the same thing except with some responsibility. lol

 

[Arde5643]

Interestingly, perhaps the easiest way to win a conversation against Republican operatives in GAF is to ask them to detail and support their lies, rather than actually bringing out the hard evidence ourselves.

 

[140.85]

Which is relevant because she was against sex-education in schools

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

 

[ronito]

Interestingly, perhaps the easiest way to win a conversation against Republican operatives in GAF is to ask them to detail and support their lies, rather than actually bringing out the hard evidence ourselves.

Which reminds me:

WHERE'S THE VIDEO?!

 

[MThanded]

Interestingly, perhaps the easiest way to win a conversation against Republican operatives in GAF is to ask them to detail and support their lies, rather than actually bringing out the hard evidence ourselves.

I tried that earlier they ignore it or spin the subject to something else. Thats how they roll. I asked for a video a long time ago. That crap never came up. They just moved along.

Willie Horton, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and Bill Ayers say yes.

Yup. Just wait boys. The sh*t hasnt even gotten close to hitting the fan. Republicans are just getting started. They will try to make Barack Obama Muslim ties all day long because they run on fear and lies. I am tired of the country being run on fear and lies so I will be mobilizing the get out the vote effort in my area and I suggest if you can you do to.

 

[polyh3dron]

In other words, you believe that Americans will choose to talk about slander, personal attacks as led by the GOP, rather than focusing on actual issues and policies that actually affect their daily lives as the Dems would like?

Or to say it in a short sentence, do you believe that Americans likes to make big issues of small politics instead of the real policies?

Willie Horton, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and Bill Ayers say yes.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

No, but it does make her look a fool to be against condoms (sex ed in general) and have a pregnant 17 year old daughter.

 

[JCreasy]

being a mayor or a town of 7000 people is kinda the same thing except with some responsibility. lol

yeah, and that sense of responsibility only cost wasilla 20 million dollars, lol

 

[FightyF]

Well first off, the Patriot Company act isn't about raising taxes it's about granting tax cuts to companies that employ good jobs within the US. Unless you're talking opportunity costs or something different I'm at a loss to see your point.

Now if you're talking about capital gains. Let me put this way. I have a friend, all he does is trade stock for a living. That's it. That's all. We work the same hours, make about the same amount of money in a year, yet he pays about 15% taxes and I'm over 33%. Why should he pay less for just moving money around? I create projects, projects which employ people.

:lol The people attempting to attack Obama's policies really have no clue.

I really hope that during the debates that he's able to spell out his platform. That is, if the Republicans are interested in discussing the issues rather than attacking people. That's a big if.

 

[Arde5643]

How's that work again?

Also, read the whole link on community organizer. Still don't get what they do, exactly, or who hires them.

However, the same links did lead to Saul Alinsky, who I am quite a bit more familiar with, as the "father of community organization."

:-/

Respect for the profession --

I think Barack started with Saul Alinsky's values, although as he matured, I think he went more into grassroots organizing than faith based organizing like rev. Wright.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

First, sorry if I can't get to everyone. GAF is clearly an unrepresentative sample of the population but I'm working as hard as I can .

She supposedly knocked it out of the park, yet how come nobody brings up the ISSUES that they erlaly agree with her or McCain on.

Foreign Policy? She has no experience and no real opinion on it. What is there to agree with there? You can argue that you agree with McCain's foreign policy assessment, but I'm weary of a man who is singing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran," as if war is something humorous.

Energy? Drill more. Good for some people, but I'm more towards moving away from oil and expanding our sources of energy, which is what we will have to do eventually.

Economy? McCain admitted he didn't know much about the economy. I don't really know his stances on it either? Cut taxes? What are Palin's stances on the economy?

Education? Anyone know what McCain's and Palin's stances are on this issue?


Seriously, from an issues basis, can any of the McCain Palin supporters elaborate on why they like what their candidates are offering?

Foreign Policy- She mentioned Russia's invasion of Georgia, why that's important to our energy, and seeing Iraq through to victory. She also mentioned Obama bumpling responses to the Georgia situation until he eventually just xeroxed the statement McCain mentioned on day 1 and affixed his name to it. I agree she and McCain need to talk about it more (though thus far they are more coherent than anything Obama has said) and I am a foreign hawk, but I like what I've seen thus far.

Energy- We are simply not getting off oil anytime soon no matter how much Obama indicates he'll wish for it. She wants to drill, expand pipelines, build more nuclear power, and begin moving into renewable energy. As Europe is discovering riught now, you cannot expand your economy and people's income if you limit energy. We are a growing nation and need more energy every year and most much come from oil and coal, its a simple fact. Again as I noted I don't think she went far enough.

Econonmy- Tax cuts and reduced spending are about what the federal government needs to do and get out of the way of the private economy. I know the dems and media paint a dickensian picture of a down and out America with the worst economy since the depression but the reality is the economy is not in that bad of shape. GDP growth was 3.3% last quarter, median incomes hit their highest levels ever last year, and people's satisfaction with their own lives is as high as ever (as usual people almost always imagine things for others to be worse than what they see in their lives). There are definite issues, many caused by the federal government (including Bush unfortunately), but nothing the market won't work out on its own.

Education- That's a matter for the states for the most part. I'm not sure what she thinks but I don't care, I think the feds spend too much on education as it is.

 

[tfur]

Kinda sad that the party of self proclaimed "christians" would make fun of the concept of someone being a community manager...

Kinda disgusting when they laughed at someone doing work for the weak and needy... you know, helping people and what not...

 

[Mercury Fred]

How's that work again?

He's a teenaged kid who, according to his myspace page, lives "to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

You think this kid wanted to be dragged into the position he's in now? I'd say that's how he "paid."

 

[Huzah]

For all we know they did use condoms but it broke.

 

[Xenon]

Stop saying that community service is laughable because its not.

She did not say this. She said as mayor she had responsibilities which one does not have a community leader. She is right. As a community leader there is NO accountability or requirements.

She never said it was laughable.


edit: never mind too much spin to stop, I'll join in . How dare she say that community leaders should burn in hell. What. a. bitch.

 

[M3wThr33]

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1320417.aspx

Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

 

[ronito]

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

Hogwash. In this specific case? Well I don't know how the kids are. But better sex ed could've done a lot to try and prevent it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23782717/

Using data from a 2002 national survey, researchers found that among more than 1,700 unmarried, heterosexual teens between 15 and 19 years old, those who'd received comprehensive sex ed in school were 60 percent less likely to have been pregnant or gotten someone pregnant than teens who'd had no formal sex education.

Meanwhile, there was no clear benefit from abstinence-only education in preventing pregnancy or delaying sexual intercourse, the researchers report in the Journal of Adolescent Health.

 

[JCreasy]

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

just in case you're not being sarcastic, i'm thinking sex ed could have DEFINITELY made an impact on the whole pregnancy situation, that is unless bristol was impregnated through immaculate conception.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Do you realize that it was actually the Palin family and McCain camp themselves who released the news that Bristol is pregnant?

You do realize it was to circumvent the media feeding frenzy that they already knew was in the process of beginning.

 

[Arde5643]

Hogwash. There is zero proof that the events surrounding the pregnancy refute ANY policy position - for sex ed or against.

Correct - so why is it that while the media and left-wing blogosphere is giving the issue of credibility and records of abuse of power from Sarah Palin, the republicans meanwhile are trying to push back the pregnancy and sexism issue that do not match the current conversation with the media?

Why are the republicans trying to put back the teen pregnancy issue back into the media while the media has moved on?

 

[140.85]

against condoms

Link?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You do realize it was to circumvent the media feeding frenzy that they already knew was in the process of beginning.

By the National Enquirer.

The same tabloid that broke the Edwards story.

Link?

Hyperbole?

Not much of a jump. She doesn't want kids having sex, and she doesn't want them educated when they do.

 

[ComputerNerd]

well, we know who to thanks for at least one of those wars

You're trying to change the topic. The point was that Clinton left our military able to fight just one small war at any given time. That point still stands.

And yes, the Iraq war is a small war. 4500 dead is small in war terms. Granted, it's higher than we'd like and any life lost is tragic, but it could have been worse. The Vietnam war for example left 50,000 dead. The Korean War left 36K dead. WW 2? 416K. Civil War? 620K.

The fact that 40K service members in Afghanistan, and 130K service members in Iraq, is stretching our military thin, is a problem.

 

[MThanded]

She did not say this. She said as mayor she had responsibilities which one does not have a community leader. She is right. As a community leader there is NO accountability or requirements.

She never said it was laughable.

Your cronies were laughing. They were laughing were you not watching.She chuckled too. Everyone was laughing get out of her man. I am sorry I wasnt literal enough for you.

 

[JCreasy]

She did not say this. She said as mayor she had responsibilities which one does not have a community leader. She is right. As a community leader there is NO accountability or requirements.

She never said it was laughable.


edit: never mind too much spin to stop, I'll join in . How dare she say that community leaders should burn in hell. What. a. bitch.

judging by the 20 million dollar debt she left wasilla with, their wasn't any accountability for her role as mayor either.

 

[Arde5643]

You're trying to change the topic. The point was that Clinton left our military able to fight just one small war at any given time. That point still stands.

And yes, the Iraq war is a small war. 4500 dead is small in war terms. Granted, it's higher than we'd like and any life lost is tragic, but it could have been worse. The Vietnam war for example left 50,000 dead. The Korean War left 36K dead. WW 2? 416K. Civil War? 620K.

The fact that 40K service members in Afghanistan, and 130K service members in Iraq, is stretching our military thin, is a problem.

So your point is that if we didn't have two wars, we wouldn't have this problem now?

 

[polyh3dron]

How's that work again?

Also, read the whole link on community organizer. Still don't get what they do, exactly, or who hires them.

I read about entrepreneurs... Who hires them???

 

[Mercury Fred]

For all we know they did use condoms but it broke.

Or after chugging a bottle of Captain Morgans their Christian judgement was impaired.

 

[mckmas8808]

Kinda sad that the party of self proclaimed "christians" would make fun of the concept of someone being a community manager...

Kinda disgusting when they laughed at someone doing work for the weak and needy... you know, helping people and what not...

Hint....they aren't real Christians.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

By the National Enquirer.

The same tabloid that broke the Edwards story.

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

 

[mozfan12]

I had an hour conversion with this old Russian lady about the election at work. She told me that she was tired of socialism, and that democrats want to make socialism happen in the US. I kept quiet but at that moment I decided that I might as well bring an Obama shirt to work everyday..

 

[FightyF]

She did not say this. She said as mayor she had responsibilities which one does not have a community leader. She is right. As a community leader there is NO accountability or requirements.

But what does that have to do with Obama? The fact that he was successful, despite the lack of accountability or requirements, says a lot. Whereas she was not successful, and the accountability did little to hurt her run for Governer, and now for Vice President.

So I wonder why she brought this up, considering that the lack of accountability had no negative affect on Obama's performance (which is remarkable, most people often do a piss poor job when they aren't accountable).

So she's basically thinking that Americans are stupid. She thinks that by pointing out that she was more accountable (despite being a failure), that it's somehow a better thing.

 

[mckmas8808]

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

Who in the heck is trying to destroy that little girl?

 

[basik]

Sarah Palin files ethics complaint against self in ‘troopergate’

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116754&srvc=rss

August 3, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wants a state board to review the circumstances surrounding the dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan - taking the unusual step of making an ethics complaint against herself.

 

[Arde5643]

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

I think we should leave this topic since right now we're talking about the media's treatment of smears and small issues that do not matter to the actual lives of the American people, instead of the actual policies and judgement that will affect the lives of the American people.

Not sure why you keep on prodding on this issue since it's pretty much a wash by now for the political conversation.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Well first off, the Patriot Company act isn't about raising taxes it's about granting tax cuts to companies that employ good jobs within the US. Unless you're talking opportunity costs or something different I'm at a loss to see your point.

Now if you're talking about capital gains. Let me put this way. I have a friend, all he does is trade stock for a living. That's it. That's all. We work the same hours, make about the same amount of money in a year, yet he pays about 15% taxes and I'm over 33%. Why should he pay less for just moving money around? I create projects, projects which employ people.

Obama's plan is to raise business taxes.

For capital gains, IMO we should have a flat tax. Everybody pays the same %. No deductions. No writeoffs. (this is in general, including income tax) That way we could trim down the IRS to a fraction of it's current size, and we wouldn't need to hire tax men.

 

[Mercury Fred]

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

I tend to believe the Enquirer has been in the biz so long, they probably have the most thoroughly researched stuff out there. And don't forget, they were the ones who broke the Edwards affair story. Can't wait to see hypocrite Sarah Palin's continued spiral down into oblivion.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

No. Again, the National Enquirer had the story, told McCain and Palin and let them break it first.

It was only then that the national news media jumped on it.

 

[masud]

:lol The people attempting to attack Obama's policies really have no clue.

I really hope that during the debates that he's able to spell out his platform. That is, if the Republicans are interested in discussing the issues rather than attacking people. That's a big if.

It's not an if, the campaign has already admitted they wont. And stop arguing about this baby shit, all of you.

 

[MThanded]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_-7rv-1gw

This is truly despicable too. Keep laughing... Calling others elitists and saying crap like this. Like I am going to tell you this with a straight face. When I was watching that I was truly offended. Comments like this make it difficult for me to try to make it the engineering/business world. I am an african american male about to graduate with a degree in engineering 3.67 GPA and people still look at me like im here because of my color. Its this stupid elitist bs and making jokes like this that help support these beliefs. What he said there was so of base I have no idea what else to say about it. Defend that shit. He was laughing too so don't say oh the opportunities. No hes saying it in a demeaning way. Ive felt the racial tension and bigotry in the world have you. I doubt it. Keep supporting your little false idols. I don't care any more I am tired of you out of touch republicans. Spin this how you want. Im sure in the end I will be the one who mounted the attack. To say something like this to your bigot buddies at home is one thing but to put it on the tv for everyone to see and laugh at it another. Keep supporting stereotypes. I am sure your gonna say I am missing the point. If I missed the bus then you guys must be at the wrong damn bus stop because I am not crazy and I have what you guys can call "experience" in this area.

 

[Byakuya769]

The National Enquirer is pushing the "Palin had an affair" rumor. The Bristol is pregnant was from the mainstream press.

Which even granting that it was just the Enquirer, just because the McCain put out the news that Bristol is pregnant gives the media carte blanche to destroy the girl?

This keeps confusing me.. how exactly is the media destroying the girl? Every time I've seen it mentioned it has been in relation to Palin sex ed policies, no one is calling the girl out for doing anything wrong.

 

[JCreasy]

You're trying to change the topic. The point was that Clinton left our military able to fight just one small war at any given time. That point still stands.

And yes, the Iraq war is a small war. 4500 dead is small in war terms. Granted, it's higher than we'd like and any life lost is tragic, but it could have been worse. The Vietnam war for example left 50,000 dead. The Korean War left 36K dead. WW 2? 416K. Civil War? 620K.

The fact that 40K service members in Afghanistan, and 130K service members in Iraq, is stretching our military thin, is a problem.

Small? 10 billion a month says otherwise.

We wouldn't be concerned about being stretched thin if we could have avoid the unnecessary war in Iraq.

Kinda sad that the party of self proclaimed "christians" would make fun of the concept of someone being a community manager...

Kinda disgusting when they laughed at someone doing work for the weak and needy... you know, helping people and what not...

You know what, I forgot they were supposed to be Christians.

Looks like they forgot too.

 

[Arde5643]

She did not say this. She said as mayor she had responsibilities which one does not have a community leader.

As a mayor, after she brought in $22 million dollar in debt to the previously $0 debt city, do you think she will be a fiscally conservative leader?

@bending_unit: instead of talking about pregnancy, this is what we should be talking about.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

But what does that have to do with Obama? The fact that he was successful, despite the lack of accountability or requirements, says a lot. Whereas she was not successful, and the accountability did little to hurt her run for Governer, and now for Vice President.

So I wonder why she brought this up, considering that the lack of accountability had no negative affect on Obama's performance (which is remarkable, most people often do a piss poor job when they aren't accountable).

So she's basically thinking that Americans are stupid. She thinks that by pointing out that she was more accountable (despite being a failure), that it's somehow a better thing.

The fact that Obama used being a community organizer to buttress his case for being president while belittling Palin as just some small town mayor. He wants to make the case that forgoing a wall street job (which is not entirely true, but anyways) and doing community organizer gives him experience to be president while saying a small town mayor has zero experience then yes expect the republicans to point out that a small town mayor had actual responsability and accountability. Obama accomplished next to nothing as a community organizer and ran to the statehouse before he could see his apartment project was a terrible idea. That is a bit different than be elected and then reelected mayor. That is what the republicans are attacking, not community organizers (but yes the speech was so magnificent the dems are left with mere straws to grasp).

 

[polyh3dron]

BabyGate is a Red Herring.
BabyGate is a Red Herring.
BabyGate is a Red Herring.
BabyGate is a Red Herring.