I was going to go up to my sister's for thanksgiving, but now I'm not sure. Her and her husband are both former Navy and it's possible they voted for that orange, racist piece of shit and I want nothing to do with any human being who voted for him, especially family members. I guess I need to find out if I'm canceling that trip or not. I will hard cut ties with *any* of my family that supports the kind of monster that Trump and his ilk are.
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Political Divide Splits Relationships and Thanksgiving, Too
- Thread starter Dalek
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NoblesseOblige
Banned
People tend to get 'nasty' towards those who support a candidate that see them as less than humans deserving basic rights. Only a person from blind privilege would hold it against a person for being upset about this.
Haha. Wow. Okay, I rescind what I said earlier. I don't believe you when you say your old man ain't racist. Can't believe you could actually post that Trump hasn't been 'intentionally racist'. Not only that, but to also retool more subtle racism as 'racial biases' is just... ugh. Why do you think that's acceptable?
you seem to have jumped to the most innocuous assumption
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Take solace that it is a matter of time before the GOP cuts veteran funding and probably starts a new war.
You can tell them they are idiots and supported both.
I really wish people would stop reducing bigotry or ignorance to a difference of opinion or voting preference.
He's not a Hitleresque white supremacist. He's just hiring Hitleresque white supremacists to some of the most consequential positions on the planet.
He's not a Hitleresque white supremacist. He's just hiring Hitleresque white supremacists to some of the most consequential positions on the planet.
eddievanclaylen
Member
I haven't talked to my douchebag younger brother since before Obama got elected.
Hes a dittohead. Need I say more.
Hes a dittohead. Need I say more.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You realize that muslim terrorists can't just walk into the US. Comparing these situations is a real false equivalency. The US is taking in refugees already screened by the UN and further screens them thoroughly.
Not to mention that all that aside most of the terror attacks in the EU were carried through by mostly homegrown terrorists. Certainly members of ISIL did sneak into the EU among the refugees though but that doesn't mean we get to throw away our values at the first caveat.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I would like to imagine a super heated Thanksgiving supper over the legal regulation of paper bags. I don't know why but that just sounds amusing. Maybe because it's so innocuous and less depressing than the whole Trump thing.
No, you see, Trump lied about his terrible views towards most of the population in order to get elected. The stuff he promised straight white guys? That's all he was being honest about and we just have to wait for the underrepresented male white crowd to finally get their share before any gross minorities are allowed to say anything about their basic human rights.
You need to shut up so we can finally unite. I for one am excited to find out what cool new things that doctor will be able to afford.
No. And the more people like you tiptoe around the other threads in OT where genuinely terrifying racists are appointed to his cabinet while somehow managing to pop up in OTHER threads to parade your "Not all Trump voters!" BS the less folks will care or even consider anything you post as worth reading.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I can't tell if she actually believes it, or is just willfully deluding herself so that it's not 'her fault' if/when any of the things Trump and his cabinet have promised to do in the past actually come to pass.
There isn't a facepalm big enough.
This is something I have actually come to better understand very recently. Not personally falling into the groups of those affected greatest by this election I didn't realize immediately how personal this is. I was somewhat surprised by the backlash and anger of the results. I wasnt thrilled myself and I expected unrest and anger ofcourse but not to this extent. I better understand after hearing about the fear and anger being felt by those most affected.
Edited for clarity.
That argument gets under my skin. It's essentially "I'm not racist or ignorant, but I did just gamble with other people's lives"
gutter_trash
Banned
he wants his tax cuts and he wants Obamacare repealed
remember Ben Carson is a doctor too
With my family, I know my mom and my brother did not vote for Trump. My brother is bi, and hates Trump with a fiery passion. My mom is just repulsed by him and is, generally speaking, a moderate who has voted both parties historically (maybe a Reagan democrat, even).
My sister likely voted for Trump. Maybe. I don't know. I don't really want to know, because I love my sister. She cares deeply about veteran's issues, and works helping veterans with PTSD. Hands on work. She goes out to crazy people's cabins because they won't come out, and she takes them food and helps get them back on their feet. So I wouldn't like to think she voted for Trump, but she probably did, because she also gets her news from the far right bubble that many soldiers have embedded themselves in, and many soldiers voted for Trump.
Her husband almost certainly didn't vote. I've never heard him express a political opinion in his life beyond how disinterested he is in politics.
My sister's daughter is gay, and she voted for Hillary. Her sons are both on the spectrum. One of them is a successful young man with some problems who probably didn't vote, and the other is going to live at home forever because his neurodiversity makes it nearly impossible for him to function in the neruotypical world. He certainly didn't vote.
My dad is dead, but would have totally voted for Trump, just to piss me off. To be fair, if we were planning on getting together, I wouldn't have avoided it. But man, my dad and I might have torn the roof off arguing. I can see it now, me and him, yelling, my brother's already yelled and left, my sister crying in the corner, and my mom asleep in the bedroom. Man, I miss my dad.
Family and politics are complicated.
AlfonzoPalutena
Member
Wow, maybe this Thanksgiving will be more interesting than I thought it would be. My family is pretty split politically. My dad is one of seven and I know for a fact at least four of his siblings' political affiliations, and they aren't all the same.
Despite the apparent divide, politics haven't really been a huge source of controversy in the past, but they have come up.
Hopefully this Thanksgiving is the same. No one needs to lose their cool! Its about seeing your family!
Despite the apparent divide, politics haven't really been a huge source of controversy in the past, but they have come up.
Hopefully this Thanksgiving is the same. No one needs to lose their cool! Its about seeing your family!
And in many cases, naive with a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
There you go with your paintbrush again. You don't take any time to figure out where the person may be coming from. Are some coming from privilege? Possibly. As far as I can tell, you won't give them a second to find out. They could be completely on your side, but they may be completely ignorant to the world. Everything I've seen from you is that you don't have the time to even give them a second to explain themselves before you label them and dismiss them.
Actually I think that you use "privilege" in your posts to try and end the conversation. You can completely dismiss anything the other poster has to say as soon as you label them as such.
How much more clear does it need to be?
Does Trump need to host a lynching at his rallies? Burn a cross?
Honest question.
JeTmAn81
Member
Alright GAF I did remember some racist attitudes my dad has displayed. He used to do things like make fun of the way black basketball players spoke. It was meant to be a criticism of their lack of education but I only remember it happening with black players and I do remember thinking when i got older that his behavior was not ok. And he would occasionally use phrases like "Jew you down" in reference to a bargain. That one shocked me even as a kid and I called him out for it.
But comments like these were few and far between. I never saw him treat anyone any differently based on the color of their skin. And that's why I can't call him a racist, because I never saw any bias in the way he treated or talked about actual people he knew. I don't think having some ethnic enteric attitudes or making occasional inappropriate comments makes you a hateful racist.
But comments like these were few and far between. I never saw him treat anyone any differently based on the color of their skin. And that's why I can't call him a racist, because I never saw any bias in the way he treated or talked about actual people he knew. I don't think having some ethnic enteric attitudes or making occasional inappropriate comments makes you a hateful racist.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Based on the accounts I've listened to so far from people I know dealing with Trump supporting friends and family, I think a large part of the frustration is coming from people pushed past the breaking point with all but willful ignorance.
Trump is the craziest, most over-the-top example of trends that a lot of people have been blind to. Name your reason; sweet naive innocence, learned ignorance, actual prejudiced sympathy, white privilege, whatever. Many people have tried for years to deal with intractable family and relations. And now that those relatives are blithely on board with Trump, in many cases it's not so much a matter of hypocritical judgmental liberals slappin' those broad brushes around. It's people reaching the end of their ropes.
To be fair, it's been approaching this for years. As the country has become more polarized, the cultural and generational divide has grown into a canyon. It's just that the Trump Train has driven over the cliff and into the canyon at last.
Trump is the craziest, most over-the-top example of trends that a lot of people have been blind to. Name your reason; sweet naive innocence, learned ignorance, actual prejudiced sympathy, white privilege, whatever. Many people have tried for years to deal with intractable family and relations. And now that those relatives are blithely on board with Trump, in many cases it's not so much a matter of hypocritical judgmental liberals slappin' those broad brushes around. It's people reaching the end of their ropes.
To be fair, it's been approaching this for years. As the country has become more polarized, the cultural and generational divide has grown into a canyon. It's just that the Trump Train has driven over the cliff and into the canyon at last.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Sadly, my sister voted for Trump because of her possibly receiving veteran benefits (& she also used to be in the Navy as well) & for more jobs.
Her & the rest don't realize that Trump isn't going to fulfill his promises. They've all been played for a fiddle.
Lord Frieza
Member
I have to admit that I am back and forth on going to my annual family reunion for Thanksgiving knowing a large mass of them are Trump supporters and seeing the things a lot of them has said and defended this cycle. I don't know, it helps nothing in the end I guess, but I don't think I'm ready to be around people like that now.
eyeball_kid
Member
I always end up in debates with my family because they're all Republicans, but that's just normal family stuff. But this year, I don't know. This whole thing goes way beyond normal debates. They voted for blatant racism and bigotry, and let's face it, neo-fascism. The thing is, I think for a lot of people like them, they never even really internalized that part. They just wanted the things that would be better for them. But it's very hard to have people that you love endorse those kinds of views, indirectly or not.
So I still don't know if I'll be seeing my family for Thanksgiving. Haven't spoken to any of them since the election.
So I still don't know if I'll be seeing my family for Thanksgiving. Haven't spoken to any of them since the election.
Muppet of a Man
Member
My dad is pretty independent. So, I never know who he'll vote for. My mom on the other hand is a partisan Republican who always votes the party line.
I berate them whenever they have a stupid, selfish, short-sighted, or bigoted baby boomer viewpoint, especially now that my child and their grandchild has been diagnosed with autism.
They definitely bought into the right wing pundits' anti-Obamacare "socialism" FUD. Well, I've educated them since (read: screamed at them until they fell awkwardly silent and became ashamed of themselves). They had never even once thought about how voting to dismantle Obamacare could negatively affect the trajectory of their own 3 year old grandson's life, as in make it impossible to pay for his ongoing therapies which cost significantly north of 100k per year if the preexisting conditions provision is reversed and/or high risk pools are brought back. The mix of selfishness, entitlement, and fear there were palpable...the fear that democratic socialism would somehow do us in as a nation. To me, taking this stance is tantamount to intense apathy for the well being of your fellow man (family included apparently). And that is just bullshit, especially when we are perfectly capable of working together to support each other's most fundamental needs (I.e., healthcare, education, food security, etc.). And the fact that every other industrialized country on earth manages to do it better than us by way of social democracy is the icing on the cake.
I berate them whenever they have a stupid, selfish, short-sighted, or bigoted baby boomer viewpoint, especially now that my child and their grandchild has been diagnosed with autism.
They definitely bought into the right wing pundits' anti-Obamacare "socialism" FUD. Well, I've educated them since (read: screamed at them until they fell awkwardly silent and became ashamed of themselves). They had never even once thought about how voting to dismantle Obamacare could negatively affect the trajectory of their own 3 year old grandson's life, as in make it impossible to pay for his ongoing therapies which cost significantly north of 100k per year if the preexisting conditions provision is reversed and/or high risk pools are brought back. The mix of selfishness, entitlement, and fear there were palpable...the fear that democratic socialism would somehow do us in as a nation. To me, taking this stance is tantamount to intense apathy for the well being of your fellow man (family included apparently). And that is just bullshit, especially when we are perfectly capable of working together to support each other's most fundamental needs (I.e., healthcare, education, food security, etc.). And the fact that every other industrialized country on earth manages to do it better than us by way of social democracy is the icing on the cake.
I don't think so. Never had this issue before.
NurseRedHeart
Member
I'm so sorry if politics has ever created a rift within your family, that's just so sad.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Do I think that all 60 million people that voted for Trump want to don a hood and burn a cross on people's lawns? No. Do realize that in that 60 million there are people who want to? There's a good chance that there's a lot more than I think there are. I was thinking around 15 million. How about you?
I'm not sure what needs to be clear to me other than you trying to find something to quote me. I'm guessing it's because I said that you're all giddy about a good dogpile. I still think you are btw.
gutter_trash
Banned
Thank God everyone in my family are Liberal Party of Canada voters
No, I don't think they all want to don a hood and burn a cross. They're just okay with those that do, that's all.
If that's not a dealbreaker for you, you do you.
P.S. I wasn't the one you were responding to in the post I quoted. You may want to go back and read a bit.
I was gonna make a thread about the Thanksgiving thing. I have some bigoted in laws who are avid Trump supporters who where talking shit about him last year and saying terrible things about Obama that I was looking forward to seeing pissed about the election results this year. Looks like it's gonna be some more holding my tongue instead.
EdibleKnife
Member
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
How come you're the ones who need to move aside?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Maybe she didn't want to antagonize her family/friends of hers that voted differently from her?
Makes me wonder why the two of you would just mock her like that.
All this time for some reason I honestly thought you are a lady!
Unless you are in a same-sex marriage, and if you are I apologize
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Why do you assume that people who voted for Trump are ok with that? Are you ok with people lashing out against people who voted for Trump? Did you think it was a possibility that some may lash out if Hillary didn't win?
OK, here's some context:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1311582
In this thread, what I assume are Hillary voters condemning it while even on the first page people are asking for context on why that white dude is getting the everloving shit kicked out of him and then gets driven off while his arm is stuck in the window while people are yelling he voted for Trump.
Are you okay with this? I bet you aren't.
Why are you assuming that everyone who voted for Trump is ok with any of this?
Because they voted for it.
Why wouldn't I assume they're okay with that? Trump broadcasted his bigoted views through a megaphone for months and they still voted for him.
Ain't no lashing out going on, just calling it like I see it.
Of course I'm not okay with that. Doesn't change the fact that for that one (legitimate or not) example we have literally dozens of other threads on Trump supporters harassing minorities, women, and the LGBT community. It doesn't change the fact that Trump threw the dog whistles into the bushes and put his bigotry on display for all to see. Doesn't change the fact that people still voted for him despite it. Where are the Trump supporters condemning the hateful actions of his supporters? Where are the Trump supporters supporting the right of people to peacefully protest? Where are the Trump supporters railing against him potentially appointing a white supremacist as Secretary of State?
You appear to be trying desperately to equivocate his desire to revoke basic human rights from disadvantaged groups (and his supporters' still supporting him despite it) to a simple political difference.
I refuse to back down from these things myself. Last year was the first time I heard my father admit that minorities probably have it worse than us when it comes to interacting with the police.
When it comes to politics, I'm not going for a full on conversion, though that'd be nice, just getting my family to be disillusioned enough to just not vote for shit candidates, even if it meant not voting at all, would be a win in my book. Hell, them voting 3rd party'd even be a step up.
Realistically I'm probably never going to flip them to liberals. I mean, honestly, a lot of liberal policies just don't effect them or benefit them at all. You got the normal stuff like Social Security, Medicare and the like, yeah, but from there the benefits are nil. All my family live in small towns, towns where there's just one school, for all grades, and few businesses. My father's home town's only "chain" like business is a Texaco gas station, which is new by the way, used to not have a place to get gas in town. Pretty much anything taken from them in taxes(not counting SS and Medicare) is not going back to them in any meaningful way unless FEMA has to show up because of a tornado or some shit. Don't even have police. To them it's all a waste of money. It's super easy to see why you'd be for little government when you live in a place with, like, no government presence at all. They don't even grow a crop that gets heavily subsidized like corn down there. Global warming will affect them but no way in hell I can break through that Fox News/Rush Limbaugh tag team of misinformation they get down there, I'll have to wait for their cotton to die before they'd change their mind.
And culturally, well, the Republicans fit that bill way more than the Democrats do.
So like I said, I'd be happy with them just not supporting Republicans, not aiming to get them to support the Democrats.
And honestly, one of the silver linings of this election loss in my opinion is that the electoral college kinda did work. I mean, take Clinton's job retraining proposal, on paper that'd benefit everyone, but was she going to build colleges in bumfuck Texas where the graduating class from high school's the size of one classroom in a city? I doubt it.
This country needs a more mature discussion about the urban/rural divide and what has to be the plan for the future. I honestly think at some point some of these towns that sprung up over an industry need to be relocated or downsized. I don't see any conceivable way we can actually help them at all besides offering them a real way out, and that'd probably have to include generous land purchases, relocation expenses, employment assistance and crap like that, the only other option's to turn them into cities themselves by sending a bunch of city dwellers to fill them up to make them attractive enough to entice other employers which I don't think is mathematically possible.
When it comes to politics, I'm not going for a full on conversion, though that'd be nice, just getting my family to be disillusioned enough to just not vote for shit candidates, even if it meant not voting at all, would be a win in my book. Hell, them voting 3rd party'd even be a step up.
Realistically I'm probably never going to flip them to liberals. I mean, honestly, a lot of liberal policies just don't effect them or benefit them at all. You got the normal stuff like Social Security, Medicare and the like, yeah, but from there the benefits are nil. All my family live in small towns, towns where there's just one school, for all grades, and few businesses. My father's home town's only "chain" like business is a Texaco gas station, which is new by the way, used to not have a place to get gas in town. Pretty much anything taken from them in taxes(not counting SS and Medicare) is not going back to them in any meaningful way unless FEMA has to show up because of a tornado or some shit. Don't even have police. To them it's all a waste of money. It's super easy to see why you'd be for little government when you live in a place with, like, no government presence at all. They don't even grow a crop that gets heavily subsidized like corn down there. Global warming will affect them but no way in hell I can break through that Fox News/Rush Limbaugh tag team of misinformation they get down there, I'll have to wait for their cotton to die before they'd change their mind.
And culturally, well, the Republicans fit that bill way more than the Democrats do.
So like I said, I'd be happy with them just not supporting Republicans, not aiming to get them to support the Democrats.
And honestly, one of the silver linings of this election loss in my opinion is that the electoral college kinda did work. I mean, take Clinton's job retraining proposal, on paper that'd benefit everyone, but was she going to build colleges in bumfuck Texas where the graduating class from high school's the size of one classroom in a city? I doubt it.
This country needs a more mature discussion about the urban/rural divide and what has to be the plan for the future. I honestly think at some point some of these towns that sprung up over an industry need to be relocated or downsized. I don't see any conceivable way we can actually help them at all besides offering them a real way out, and that'd probably have to include generous land purchases, relocation expenses, employment assistance and crap like that, the only other option's to turn them into cities themselves by sending a bunch of city dwellers to fill them up to make them attractive enough to entice other employers which I don't think is mathematically possible.
Nope. 47 year old dude with a massive beard.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
If you want to cut off someone form your life and calling them idiots, then you'll need to do better than "it's possible."
Wow... you are completely different than the mental image I have for you in my mind then, hahah.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
IndoAssassin
Banned
So apparently the left is going to win this fight by doing the same thing that lost them this fight in the first place.
What was Einstein's definition of sanity again?
What was Einstein's definition of sanity again?
Calling out people for voting for a bigot lost them the election?
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