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Political Divide Splits Relationships and Thanksgiving, Too
- Thread starter Dalek
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Mr.Monitor
Member
Yeaaaah, I'm really not looking forward to talking Trump with my dad this Thanksgiving. He voted for Trump and while he insists he "doesn't like him" Trump is like all he wants to talk about lately. My dad has never been that political and is basically a one issue voter (taxes lol) so it's really frustrating seeing the mental gymnastics he goes through to defend Trump even though he keeps saying he thinks the guy is a nut. I've tried to talk some sense into him over the last few months but it's like nothing I say works because no matter what he always defaults to "well I don't ACTUALLY like the guy!" even though he's supported him from the start.
It's a huge bummer because usually my dad is a really thoughtful, smart, and kind guy but for some reason his opinions on politics are all kinds of fucked up even though I know he truly believes he's in the right. At the end of the day I can put up with it because he's my dad and I'm used to him acting dumb during election season but I already know it's gonna cause tons of tension with my girlfriend who is extremely opinionated about this stuff and is generally very vocal when she disagrees with someone.
It's a huge bummer because usually my dad is a really thoughtful, smart, and kind guy but for some reason his opinions on politics are all kinds of fucked up even though I know he truly believes he's in the right. At the end of the day I can put up with it because he's my dad and I'm used to him acting dumb during election season but I already know it's gonna cause tons of tension with my girlfriend who is extremely opinionated about this stuff and is generally very vocal when she disagrees with someone.
UltraGunner
Banned
I got a lot of socialists in my family so we'd still be talking about trump, mainly about how we fucking hate him
FF Seraphim
Member
The majority of the males in my family voted for Trump
we are all immigrats too. I was lost for words. I am just glad that I will not have to talk politics with them this year since I don't live anywhere near them.
Are minority rights a more fundamental issue than national security? They're both important to me, and while I agree that Hillary is better than Trump on both, it can be argued otherwise.
That isn't a new thing, White Nationalists always supported the Republicans. What's new is that Trump didn't dismiss that support, unlike previous Republican candidates.
Thank you.
ebullientprism
Member
You gotta wonder if families and loved ones are being split apart what hope does the rest of your country have? If people cant make it work with people incredibly close to them or tied to them by blood then you guys are really fucked.
I expect in most cases it's not permanent. Things are just raw for both sides at the moment, and who wants to spend the holiday yelling at each other? There are other holidays and future Thanksgivings.
And I also strongly suspect that in cases where it's a big problem, it's not the only one. Not everyone has happy families.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Instead of finding a solution, you just segregate them to a people who have hate instilled in them. Why is it so hard to reach them? How do we open a closed mind? How do we make them realize their hate without putting them on the defensive? Right now I want solutions, not fights. Because its obviously fighting amongst your population caused this your country to elect hate.
If we don't have the answers to these questions, maybe it's time we invest in finding out how it can be done instead of just writing it off. Autokatically calling someone a racist or bigot closes the door to any dialogue or chance to educate. Yes you will have a small portion who are just hate filled like criminals. But you cant tell me thata 100% of the hate filled population can't be reformed because I call bullshit on that.
Maybe like right wing media spreads fear, someond creates media that spreads love and floods the waves like fear filled media does?
It's time to face this adversity head on, instead of segregating and running from it. Otherwise history has taught us nothing.
I'm from a catholic family so my thanksgiving will be hell. Last year we briefly discussed healthcare and I mentioned the U.S. has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the first world. A family member responded by saying "of course we do! With all them baby parts being stolen by Planned Parenthood it all makes sense!"
It truly is a post-truth society.
It truly is a post-truth society.
There is no hope for the rest of the country. At least not until the boomers die off.
We just elected a charismatic outsider who told us only he could save us. Clearly history has taught us nothing.
And frankly, history is a bad teacher if you're looking for peaceful conversion to a new set of ideas, or resolving multi-generational feuds.
I'm not automatically calling them a racist or bigot. I'm calling them someone who voted for a racist or bigot.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I'm just glad I won't see my mom's family for Thanksgiving this year. I always try to put a halt to any political conversation but man I am raw right now and I just know someone would say some shit that would ruin my mood.
SolarMystic
Member
In the awkward position that my immediate family are paranoid Trump supporters while the extended family are all democrats.
I think I'll skip the holidays this year.
I think I'll skip the holidays this year.
its way past time to identify implicit racism/ bigotry as racism and bigotry.
ZackieChan
Member
Pretty much.
I've got some Trump supporters in the family. We don't really talk politics, and if we do, the non-Trumpers just roll our eyes and exit the conversation. It isn't really too divisive.
It takes all my willpower not to go off on people I know that are normalizing Trump or those who support him. My brain has exploded at the stupidity and cognitive dissonance this year. I cannot handle it when people ignore facts, logic, and evidence. I swear being intellectual is a bad thing now.
With that said I just straight up block online or ghost friends and family that just won't listen. It breaks my brain seeing them ignore anything I say no matter how pragmatic I am.
With that said I just straight up block online or ghost friends and family that just won't listen. It breaks my brain seeing them ignore anything I say no matter how pragmatic I am.
Ventilaator
Banned
Same. My entire family would roast a Trump supporter.
obijkenobi
Member
My girlfriend has a cousin that is openly gay. He has a bf right now and has stopped going to family events for a while because of her family's views. Her aunt is now going to stop skip on Thanksgiving events because that part of the family is so openly happy with Trump/Bannon. My gfs mom is skipping for the same reason.
Disagree, some care about conservative fiscal policies more then everything else. Doesn't make them racist, it could make them ignorant though
to ignore everyone else makes them implicitly bigoted though? consider the implications of ignoring so many other people? being racist is to be ignorant, por que no los dos.
Ventilaator
Banned
Voting a racist
(or someone who thinks everyone other than straight white males should shut up. I know using the R-word is frowned upon these days question mark question mark where the fuck are we going as a species)
If your primary concern is fiscal conservatism, how does Trump, who hasn't shut up about an extremely, ridiculously expensive, completely useless wall, seem like a reasonable candidate?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Ben Carson's a doctor too... not commenting on your dad, just saying that isn't really a defense
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
My entire family, including my wife, voted for Trump. I am the only one who voted Hillary. I plan on having a wonderful thanksgiving and Christmas with them. B..b.b.but how could you have fun with racists?!?!! Because, I am an adult and I realize it was just a fucking election (oh and a vote for a supreme court justice doesn't make you racist). In four years there will be another one, and another four years after that.
This hyperbolic bullshit happens on both sides when they lose. Lots of tantrums and cries of Nazism and Fascism. Then life goes back to normal and the president does absolutely nothing for 4-8 years. Happens every time, yet people seem to act like its always a new concept.
This year is particularly bad because, for a certain subset of Millennials, this is their first loss, and they didn't even get a participation trophy.
This hyperbolic bullshit happens on both sides when they lose. Lots of tantrums and cries of Nazism and Fascism. Then life goes back to normal and the president does absolutely nothing for 4-8 years. Happens every time, yet people seem to act like its always a new concept.
This year is particularly bad because, for a certain subset of Millennials, this is their first loss, and they didn't even get a participation trophy.
yeah it wasnt just an election. its easy for someone like you to say america has probally always been good to you and with this election for many large swaths of people it will be worse, and if you dont understand of how a single lifetime appointment to the supreme court can drastically change the law the of the land i dont know what else to tell you.
It must be nice for you to just write this stuff off and go back to your bubble. Racism exists because people like you just allow for this kind of behavior to exist its the same as how many families allow abuses to happen beacuse its their brother sister uncle etc and dont care about what happened to the victim in their same family just to keep the peace.
People like you just want order above all else rather than ever worry about justice your commentary is a prime example of it.
The Guy literally conducted an interview on Golden Chairs. lmao
Messofanego
Banned
Doctors can be stupid, they're not automatically more intelligent than everyone else, they just have knowledge about the human body. I know plenty of stupid racist doctors. How would you know if he was a racist or not? Have you brought up what he thinks about other races? Also, whether he's really racist or not, this Hasan Minhaj quote is still worth heeding.
Ventilaator
Banned
The only way this makes any sense, and even then it would be completely ridiculous, is if you were black and all your racist family is white.
Because otherwise, wow. You don't see the problem with hanging out with people whose beliefs don't affect you? Wow, what a hero.
prag16
Banned
You're right. When in doubt, just call EVERYBODY a bigot. Cast a wide net. Seemed to work out well for you guys up to this point. -_-
Messofanego
Banned
If it's just an election, and nothing bad happens as a result of it, why are there hate crimes being perpetrated right after? Or have you not noticed them?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1311390
Speaking of presidents doing absolutely nothing, so you would say Obama did nothing for 8 years? Or do you just not follow politics at all?
"Over the past two terms, the press corps has been spoiled with a presidency whose accomplishments are of a number and a magnitude unlikely to be equaled anytime soon."
Why Obama is one of the most consequential presidents in American history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOeTBD1iEQ&feature=youtu.be
400 Obama accomplishments: http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/
Ventilaator
Banned
What also bugs me about the "This is all because liberals kept saying that racism is bad and racists found that offensive!!" narrative is that it's not like the right is all polite and proper when talking about liberals. Trump's entire campaign was about alienating as many groups of people as physically possible, and it didn't matter.
How about we just Occam's razor this shit and say that Trump won because many people listened to what he had to say and agreed.
How about we just Occam's razor this shit and say that Trump won because many people listened to what he had to say and agreed.
So all the non-white people that voted Trump are definetly either?
..that seems racist.
harriet the spy
Member
I kind of want to cancel plans to see Bernie or bust friends (and I voted Bernie in the primary) even though they couldn't vote so I don't want to imagine what I would do to trump supporters in my family. Probably permanently stop talking to them tbh.
I'm bowing out of Thanksgiving this year. Over the years it's been harder and harder to keep my cool around the stupidity. I don't assume they're racists because they voted Trump. They're fucking racists. Last year's Thanksgiving or Easter there was a discussion on how black people are the real racists. There's always something appalling said, and I have no faith I won't ruin the entire day if/when it happens.
So instead we might spend the day with friends.
So instead we might spend the day with friends.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
That's my biggest takeaway from all this also.
I would bet a lot of this is just a "last straw" kind of deal. Chances are the holidays last year and the year before that weren't great either. This year is just the final tip of the soda machine where people collectively say "you know what? I'd rather not do that painful and awkward thing every year with people I don't even really like being around - but do out of obligation"
I feel like well adjusted families would have the common sense to not talk about fucking politics, this year of all years, if they know not everyone agrees. Reading these stories of large gatherings with loud mouth Trump supporters is upsetting because not only did they vote for shitty policies - they have shitty manners too.
Like holy shit people other subjects exist - like discussing who got/gets what with the inheritance is a real crowd pleaser if you're looking to stir up trouble.
freeofgreed
Member
Easy to say that when you're most likely not a member of any of the groups who'd be affect by Trump's bullshit.
Ventilaator
Banned
Oh shit, I just thought of a third option. Everyone is always yelling about how you're a failure of a human being if you don't vote, so I can see a situation where you're going voting without really knowing much about the candidates. So "Had no idea what the fuck you were doing" would be option C, separate from stupid.
But yes, one of those three.
prag16
Banned
WrenchNinja
Member
No they're just stupid.
freeofgreed
Member
How do you know they aren't racist though? I have a couple of Trump supporters at work, and they all seemed like nice reasonable people. And then last week happened and I overheard some of the most vile and racist garbage come out of their mouth. Just because they aren't KKK members doesn't mean they probably don't hold very racist views.
People keep saying not all Trump supporters are racist but I've seen almost no evidence pointing to the contrary.
Trump has never called Mexicans rapist. Misstatements like this should not be thrown around so much. Doing that divides the country even futher and spouts more hate.
What Trump said, is that many of the people that Mexico "sends" to USA, are people who have problems, such as criminals and rapists. Is that a shitty statement to make? Sure. Is it racist? Maybe. But there is a huge difference between "[all] Mexicans are rapist" and "many of the Mexicans that come [illegally] to USA are criminals or rapists".
Also that "banning Muslims" is misleading, since Trump said that a year ago (and even then, it wasn't "ban all Muslims, period" but rather "ban all Muslims, until we can figure out whether they are safe or not").
His current position seems to be to "suspend all immigration from countries linked with terrorism until proven vetting methods can be established", which is a very different position. Still very controversial, but much less so.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I'm gonna say this in every thread where I see people defending Trump voters for not being racist or bigots.
Trump's chief strategist has direct ties to white nationalists. Trump's VP is openly homophobic. Trump during the campaign said many things that were undoubtedly racist or misogynistic.
This isn't like the time you voted for Romney or Bush or Reagan. Their policies may have harmed certain groups of people but they had good intentions. Even the War on Drugs as awful as it has been was waged for good reasons, it just doesn't work.
Donald Trump has said and been supported and has lent his support to many people who want to to implement policies that actively harm certain groups of Americans - women, GBLT, people of colour. There's no hidden agenda here. Voting for him means one of three things:
1) You support those policies
2) You ignored those policies because of [insert reasons] and didn't give a single fuck about the wider ramifications of it. I'm sure all the GBLT, women and people of colour in America will be happy to know that you supported Trump because of his tax plan and not his inflammatory remarks.
3) You're stupid.
None of those things are good marks on your character. In fact, I think 2) is arguably the worst stance. Your typical run of the mill KKK bogeyman type believes that bigotry is moral and thus, they are doing the right thing. All the people in point 2) probably (hopefully) know it's wrong but don't care. Fuck'em.
Don't give me this horseshit about disenfranchised white people who are losing their livelihoods in middle America either. Before their were ever factories in rural and small town America, they were in big cities. Detroit used to make cars, Pittsburgh used to make steel, Cleveland used to be a manufacturing giant, Baltimore used to be a major port and steel processing center. All these cities suffered through deindustrialization in the 70's, 80's and 90's. People lost their livelihoods there long before small town and rural America started. You wanna talk about the meth epidemic that's raging through middle America right now? Guess, what, the cities had a crack and heroin epidemic in the 70's and 80's. You want to talk to me about shrinking pensions and the overabundance of low paid service jobs? Generation X has been raging about that since the 90's. In fact there's a book about it called - surprise, Generation X. Where is this supposed liberal bubble I keep hearing about? To me, much of this is recent history.
Go into any big city right now and try to find me a factory that still employs thousands of people. Most are empty and abandoned. If you're lucky, they might have been re-purposed into residential spaces. The neighbourhood in which I currently live is made up of factories that were turned into lofts, condos and apartments. It was a working class Irish and black neighbourhood when it was an industrial center. When the companies all left, the neighbourhood went to shit. The median income of my neighbourhood in 2016 is ~$19,000/yr. And it's only that "high" because of gentrification that's been happening gradually over the last 6-7 years.
Trump's chief strategist has direct ties to white nationalists. Trump's VP is openly homophobic. Trump during the campaign said many things that were undoubtedly racist or misogynistic.
This isn't like the time you voted for Romney or Bush or Reagan. Their policies may have harmed certain groups of people but they had good intentions. Even the War on Drugs as awful as it has been was waged for good reasons, it just doesn't work.
Donald Trump has said and been supported and has lent his support to many people who want to to implement policies that actively harm certain groups of Americans - women, GBLT, people of colour. There's no hidden agenda here. Voting for him means one of three things:
1) You support those policies
2) You ignored those policies because of [insert reasons] and didn't give a single fuck about the wider ramifications of it. I'm sure all the GBLT, women and people of colour in America will be happy to know that you supported Trump because of his tax plan and not his inflammatory remarks.
3) You're stupid.
None of those things are good marks on your character. In fact, I think 2) is arguably the worst stance. Your typical run of the mill KKK bogeyman type believes that bigotry is moral and thus, they are doing the right thing. All the people in point 2) probably (hopefully) know it's wrong but don't care. Fuck'em.
Don't give me this horseshit about disenfranchised white people who are losing their livelihoods in middle America either. Before their were ever factories in rural and small town America, they were in big cities. Detroit used to make cars, Pittsburgh used to make steel, Cleveland used to be a manufacturing giant, Baltimore used to be a major port and steel processing center. All these cities suffered through deindustrialization in the 70's, 80's and 90's. People lost their livelihoods there long before small town and rural America started. You wanna talk about the meth epidemic that's raging through middle America right now? Guess, what, the cities had a crack and heroin epidemic in the 70's and 80's. You want to talk to me about shrinking pensions and the overabundance of low paid service jobs? Generation X has been raging about that since the 90's. In fact there's a book about it called - surprise, Generation X. Where is this supposed liberal bubble I keep hearing about? To me, much of this is recent history.
Go into any big city right now and try to find me a factory that still employs thousands of people. Most are empty and abandoned. If you're lucky, they might have been re-purposed into residential spaces. The neighbourhood in which I currently live is made up of factories that were turned into lofts, condos and apartments. It was a working class Irish and black neighbourhood when it was an industrial center. When the companies all left, the neighbourhood went to shit. The median income of my neighbourhood in 2016 is ~$19,000/yr. And it's only that "high" because of gentrification that's been happening gradually over the last 6-7 years.
freeofgreed
Member
Did the poster say he said all? Also the way you tried to re frame it is hardly less controversial.
The statement implies it. If I say "muslims are terrorists", people read that as "[all] muslims are terrorists" even though I don't explicitly say it.
He actually hedged his words saying he assumed some Mexican immigrants were good people. He was clearly saying that the majority of Mexican immigrants were drug dealers and rapists, and calling him out on it isn't divisive, his statements are. Stop trying to give this monster a pass. Hell, he also said a judge couldn't be expected to give a fair ruling because of his Mexican heritage. That is on its fucking face racist. This of course ignores Trump's long history of racism before the election. Jesus, Trump apologists man...
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