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Politico: Inside the bitter last days of Bernie's revolution
- Thread starter NYCmetsfan
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If Bernie was outright recorded saying these things or acting in this manner, would that change the opinions of the current die-hard Sanders supporters? You see them explain away this stuff as just the main stream media and conspiracy theories working against Bernie, but the content in the articles (no matter how strong) doesn't seem to sway them.
It really reminds me a bunch of the 'console wars'. People have found something to get passionate about bc people like getting passionate about things, and their opinions are set from the beginning and no amount of information will change that.
It really reminds me a bunch of the 'console wars'. People have found something to get passionate about bc people like getting passionate about things, and their opinions are set from the beginning and no amount of information will change that.
I can't even think of a single politician in my lifetime that's gotten as much hate as her. They got a good portion of the next generation to hate her without even knowing a damn thing about her!
This was precisely my argument as to why she is ultimately the better candidate... And I was a Bernie supporter in the beginning (boy, how times have changed).
There is a good reason why he has never been attacked by the conservative machine- They wanted him. The attack ads almost write themselves, and honestly the older voting population (read- the most active) would have eaten it all up.
Meanwhile, there is nothing you can bring up that is going to destroy Hillary at this point. Much like the Boy Who Cried Wolf, every time I read a Hillary attack piece I roll my eyes. Even the entire email scandal, which may have some merit, elicits the same response from me: and eye roll. We've been hearing about how Hillary is the anti-Christ for 20+ years now and honestly the attacks have just lost all of their effect. She's been through it all... And still beats Trump in most polls.
captainnapalm
Member
The so-called American 'left' really only had two choices in this election. As the message started to get out strongly about who Hillary Clinton really is and what she stands for, whose interests she serves, they could either realise they're supporting something bad for the planet and get behind Sanders, or convince themselves that Sanders was the bad guy.
You see, heels never think they're heels. They have to convince themselves they're actually faces and that the other guy is the heel.
I mean you could see that narrative play out on this forum. They had to make him into an enemy. He's hardly a perfect candidate, but by the end he was like king gamergater lording over his army of white American males looking to take away everyone's freedoms. A tyrant hungry for power. Watching the whole thing unfold was something else.
Anyway, looking forward to the Clinton years. The world has become such a scary place in many ways post 9/11. That's not going to change. Some very bad people hold sway over the people who control American politics. I mean, that's always been the case, but these days more than ever.
You see, heels never think they're heels. They have to convince themselves they're actually faces and that the other guy is the heel.
I mean you could see that narrative play out on this forum. They had to make him into an enemy. He's hardly a perfect candidate, but by the end he was like king gamergater lording over his army of white American males looking to take away everyone's freedoms. A tyrant hungry for power. Watching the whole thing unfold was something else.
Anyway, looking forward to the Clinton years. The world has become such a scary place in many ways post 9/11. That's not going to change. Some very bad people hold sway over the people who control American politics. I mean, that's always been the case, but these days more than ever.
Already Torn
Banned
You should read the article, it has some interesting insight about how Sanders is a pretty shitty guy.
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, all that hateful shit thrown at any organization not endorsing him was a narrative.
It's the narrative that made him say PP was part of the establishment, it's the narrative that harassed and threatened the NV DNC, it's the narrative that called anti-AIDS activists big pharma shills. As Sanders knew it was all narrative, that's why he endorsed or made excuses for that shit obviously.
I'm so glad you're here to wake all of us sheeples.
(It's kind of remarkable how a thread specifically about Sanders being a bitter, sore loser has turned into "yeah but Hillary is right wing, checkmate!" when there's like 5 active Hillary threads)
Darryl M R
Member
Do you mind summing it up a bit? I'm trying to read the article but I'm on mobile and the webpage isn't loading clearly for me.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The irony here is amazing
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Politics is hard, heh.
Already Torn
Banned
It basically just shows how the campaign shifted from spreading a progressive message to winning at all costs, reportedly at the orders of Bernie himself. The biggest thing that stood out to me was that when Harry Reid asked Sanders if he could support some down-ticket Democrats (which would both further the cause of progressive politics and would also give Bernie some allies in congress if he ever became President), the response was that the Sanders campaign would only support candidates if they supported him first. And then it's just a series of baffling and seemingly ego-driven decisions like that which lead us to today where his campaign is finished with very little good will left.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Yeah. If you want a sports analogy, the more accurate one would be Soccer, and to look at things in terms of Goal Differential. If you win games 1-0, that's nice, but if you've lost 4 or 5 games by scores of 4-0 and 5-1, then those 1-0 wins don't help all that much.
After March 15, Bernie didn't just need to win, but he needed roughly 20 point wins in every contest. Any time he managed to win 53-47, he got the media coverage for winning despite actually getting further away from catching up.
His true self came out.
Fascinating article, it's been kind of surreal seeing the implosion in recent weeks. I was never a huge fan myself, seems like a lot of ambition with little actual ability to change things, but watching people that were huge supporters turn on him is been very bizarre.
Kite
Member
LOL The article says that after he lost Pennsylvania, Harry Reid called Bernie up and offered a leadership position among Senate progressives in exchange for helping campaign for other progressives. Bernie turned it down.. lolol he was given the keys to jumpstart that progressive revolution he keeps talking about and he turned it down to burn down all the bridges and continue a campaign that has no chance of winning. The guy is an goddamn idiot.
I was a big fan of his the last few years, then his response to the Black Lives Matter activists showed me who he really was and his pettiness throughout completely turned me off. At this point, I just want him to go away and I hope I never have to hear from him again.
hammysaurusrex
Member
There's really nothing in this narrative that is unique to Sanders though.
1) People also learned a lot about who Sanders "really was" this election - the humble senator from Vermont simply wasn't. Perhaps people simply didn't like Sanders - plenty of pork barrel politics, shitting all over any advocacy group that didn't endorse him (ACT UP, PlannedParenhood, etc.), his inability to articulate how he's going to work any of his policy into reality, just to identify some. The solution to these problems could have been holding Sanders' feet to the fire, but instead his supporters doubled down on being anti-Hillary
2) Hillary also had this transformation of going from merely being flawed to absolutely satanic, perhaps not as well backed on NeoGAF - but it was fascinating seeing reddit warp during this election from a progressive website backing Sanders, to a ferocious anti-Hillary campaign, then finally into its present form as basically a piece of alt-right media (a good demonstration of horseshoe theory).
Basically, I'm agreeing with you that tribalism sucks - I just don't see how it was a unique aspect of Clinton's campaign compared to Sanders'.
It is amazing that he not only scooped him up but trying to inject him into the DNC
LegendofJoe
Member
Agreed, the Ned Stark comparison that Pagusas made above is pretty apt.
Fighting the establishment but using establishment tricks
His seat in congress is also pretty safe, too. Dude doesn't know how to deal with total pressure.
SillyEskimo
Member
He never had my vote, but he always had my respect. He has lost that now as well.
balladofwindfishes
Member
To be honest, I want Reid to extend this offer out again as a goodwill gesture. Bernie, his lists and his supporters are powerful assets, even if he's disorganized and a bit delusional.
Dash_Riprock
Member
No, at this point he's far more like Cersei Lannister: Nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is and believes that everyone who isn't 100% with him is conspiring against him.
Hm....that works actually.
Sigh, Bernie pls.
I used to be a Bernie supporter, and I guess by default I now support Hillary, but I don't really like for anyone this election, and that is much different than the previous ones. Gore and of course Obama were lgrea candidates. I was glad to vote for Obama in 2012. I wasn't old enough to vote during 2000, but Gore likeable.
Hillary won't be that bad in my book, but I don't think she will match the quality of Obama. I hope to be proven wrong on that, because I would love for her to subvert my expectations. At the very least, she won't tear down what Obama built, unlike some people whose name rhymes with "dump".
My biggest fear with Hillary, and this applies to Obama too, is more privacy invasion with stuff like the NSA.
Bernie has lost my respect over the last few weeks, and it's a damn shame.
I used to be a Bernie supporter, and I guess by default I now support Hillary, but I don't really like for anyone this election, and that is much different than the previous ones. Gore and of course Obama were lgrea candidates. I was glad to vote for Obama in 2012. I wasn't old enough to vote during 2000, but Gore likeable.
Hillary won't be that bad in my book, but I don't think she will match the quality of Obama. I hope to be proven wrong on that, because I would love for her to subvert my expectations. At the very least, she won't tear down what Obama built, unlike some people whose name rhymes with "dump".
My biggest fear with Hillary, and this applies to Obama too, is more privacy invasion with stuff like the NSA.
Bernie has lost my respect over the last few weeks, and it's a damn shame.
Wafflecakes
Member
This was quite humorous to read, thank you!
The Bernie supporter rage spiral into irrationality, generalizations, and hate mongering is staggering to watch.
You act like your absurd narrative of Hillary the conservative, corrupt, warmongering disaster is somehow more or less valid than your gamergate comparison with Bernie.
You are doing exactly what you claim to hate about the gaf narrative, but are too far lost in your bubble to see it.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Kerry was a "great candidate?" WTF?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Well people kept asking how Hillary was going to turn the "Bernie or Bust" types.
Bernie publically imploding is in fact the easiest one.
March of the Crabs
Member
As a Canadian looking in, American politics are bumming me out. Bernie is evidently kind of a dick, Hillary is slimy and pandering, Trump is a cartoon villain racist, Cruz hates gay people and Muslims even more than Trump...
Sad state of affairs. At least Hillary is the lesser of 2 evils when compared to Trump.
Sad state of affairs. At least Hillary is the lesser of 2 evils when compared to Trump.
i supported bernie up until the past few weeks. some of the shit his supporters say/do is really perplexing to me. my roommate thought bernie still had a really good shot yesterday morning, telling me that bernie was gonna win california and we would have a contested convention. i was just kinda like you know he lost it months ago, right? he was in complete denial. i like the direction bernie wants to lead the country in regards to socialism, but i'm not an idiot and i recognize he lost, fair and square at the end of the day. i'll vote for hillary in the general election, i feel like you have to be flat out crazy to support trump.
Ehh. I think Bernie and Weaver did a good job of that themselves. They didn't have to tear down their friends and colleagues they have minor disagreements with, and lump them in as the enemy.
It's a very unDemocratic thing to do, and its not what the party stands for. But anti establishment voters and purists like that sort of gruff. But not the average American voter. Per the votes, not the majority of Democrats as well.
People soured on Bernie when he changed his strategy after he realized his old strategy would not work to win him the nomination. People spoke with their votes; they didnt like his new strategy of attacking everyone not 100% with him as an establishment hack cheating the choosen from making America great again.
Losing campaigns change things and get stuck in those negative feedback loops untill they ultimately throw in the towel. Its nothing new. Its no one's fault but the campaigns.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Sounds about right.
The past few weeks/months have had me utterly regretting voting for this guy. He has transcended into a joke.
The past few weeks/months have had me utterly regretting voting for this guy. He has transcended into a joke.
Strangelove77
Member
This thread is...something else.
Conspiracies, delusion, and laughter.
Conspiracies, delusion, and laughter.
The Artisan
Member
just another bitter politician?
At least she wasn't introduced as "Avowed Socialist Hillary Clinton" every name drop.
Actually, I misremembered it and confused him with Gore for some reason. Editing that.
We're moving in the right direction.
Progressive politics is on the upswing, especially in the largest generation since the boomers (Gen Y / Mellenials). The MOST important thing with 2016 is the next President will appoint between 2-4 Supreem Court Justices.
Anyone playing attention to whats happened since the GOP stacked the court understand just how important that is. The reason they flat out refuse to accept Obama appointing another. It's their lynchpin.
Bernie or Hillary, they'll be appointing justices even to the left of Obama's reliable liberal picks. Hillary might even try to make it a majority women's body, which is a damn good thing.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Gore was a great candidate?
Right, that's exactly why that presentation is misleading, because Bernie's position was prohibitively behind. I get that you don't seem to understand the system at all, which is why people keep trying to make analogies to explain it to you, but since you don't actually seem invested in understanding, just arguing, let me just assure you that you don't understand how Democratic primaries work and so your analysis is deeply incorrect.
Great compared to Bush.
Felix Lighter
Member
I agree with a lot of what Bernie stands for but the thing that irritates me most about how this all ended up is the increase of conspiracy theorist on the left. There is plenty of corruption in politics but now I'm hearing a lot more illuminati-controlling-the-world level claims being made by liberals. Good luck pushing a liberal progressive agenda after destroying all trust in government.
That reminds me, I haven't really followed it since around when Scalia died, are they still holding out and not discussing Obama's nominee?
I've learned that younger dems don't like bill so much. Could have worked.
How could it be substantiated? Couldn't any person with insider info just as easily be accused of throwing Sanders under the bus to save face with the larger party?
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