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[Amir0x]

Not to defend the Church or anything, but divorce has always been and still is prohibited by the Catholic Church, except for annulment in a handful of cases. Divorced people who have a new partner "live in sin" and shouldn't even be given the sacraments.

Of course it is. My point was to illustrate that they keep trying to act as if there is some major misfunction with gay marriage, whereas regular marriage has tons of problems in modern society. It makes no sense to try to proclaim that gay marriage is some especially outrageous mark on humanity when regular ol' marriage is basically a broken institution scarring families around the world. And this is all with good ol' straight people.

If you take your stats from the early nineties or something...sure.

Worldwide it's absolutely close to 50%. In the United States, it's still close to like 40% if you take the most conservative counting method. This is a broken institution.

 

[Chichikov]

more like the bible cannot be retconned
if the book says gay marriage is not allowed then future popes will still keep this position untill infinity or untill the religion goes extinct

That assumes bible literalism, which is problematic, as the bible contradict itself on the literal level all the fucking time on very basic issues.
That is not to say that you can't take the bible literally, but you don't have to do it; for example, the Catholic Church does not follow strict literalism (and that before I get to the other sources of Catholic authority, which do not all lie in scripture, but I'm sure no one wants to gat into that on Christams).

Also, the bible says nothing about gay marriage, it says male buttsex is a sin.
And it says it with as much conviction and condemnation (in fact, pretty much the exact same wording) as it forbid pork and shellfish, and yet Christians found a way to enjoy bacon for centuries, so you know, it's possible.
In fact, it's not only possible, it's inevitable, the catholic church changed its mind on bigger issues than gay marriage, and it I'm pretty fucking certain it will change its mind on it too, you know, the arc of the moral universe and all that crap.

 

[Alucrid]

I get to see him speak this year as he's giving the commencement speech at my college.

the hell kinda school gets the pope to do that?

edit: oh the dali lama

 

[Dead Man]

I never understand why the Pope and other religious leaders never addresses the actual problem of how everyone is getting divorced leaving children in loveless, broken families who scar them far more emotionally than whatever fucked up fantasy they have about how a loving homosexual family unit functions.

Less people get married today, more than half of all marriages end in divorce... maybe there's something wrong with the institution of marriage itself?

Yeah, with all the social problems in the world, not just with marriage, and they spend so much time on preventing two people who are in love being together,

Are they dumb enough to think that lots of people are going to decide to become gay just because it is more socially acceptable?

I mean really . . . WTF are they worried about? Gay people exist. They have always will exist. They will exist whether or not it is legal or socially sanctioned. But straight people are not just going to become gay because it is socially acceptable or you can legally get gay married.

Get the fuck over it already. Jesus.

I think a lot of them have same sex attractions of one kind or another that the refuse to act on, and they assume everyone else feels that way too. It's the only way I can explain the ridiculous claims of 'lifestyles', and acceptance leading to more gayness.

 

[gcubed]

Pope Benny is great for accelerating the marginalization of Catholicism. John Paul was insanely progressive compared to him

 

[The Janitor]

Two consenting adults getting married? That's destroying our humaity!!!

Molesting little boys? No big deal, let's pretend it never happened.

 

[Dead Man]

Pope Benny is great for accelerating the marginalization of Catholicism. John Paul was insanely progressive compared to him

JP2 hated women, Benny hates gays. I think if they survived JP2, they will survive Ben.

 

[Amir0x]

Pope Benny is great for accelerating the marginalization of Catholicism. John Paul was insanely progressive compared to him

and he's a veritable monster who protected known child molesters

so there's that too

but hey, Pope Benedict, keep your priorities going strong! God is with you, clearly!

 

[i-Lo]

the hell kinda school gets the pope to do that?

edit: oh the dali lama

Dalai Lama, imo, is both a true progressive and the most sensible religious leader at present.

 

[gcubed]

JP2 hated women, Benny hates gays. I think if they survived JP2, they will survive Ben.

Benny hates more than gays. Benny hates impurity way more than I ever remember JP2.

 

[Dead Man]

Benny hates more than gays. Benny hates impurity way more than I ever remember JP2.

Yeah, you have a point.

 

[i-Lo]

The assholes of this world in power seldom die soon.

 

[Schattenjäger]

As a very conservative pope, he's doing his job - sure I don't agree with it but I'll hold off until we get a more modern pope

His views have been known for a long time.. These threads serve as nothing but fodder to attack the church - nothing new is ever discussed - have fun doing it on Christmas

 

[Amir0x]

i think Benny doesn't have long. dude looks like the years of pretending to be the vessel of God has taken its toll already.

These threads serve as nothing but fodder to attack the church - nothing new is ever discussed - have fun doing it on Christmas

oh boo hoo the church is sooo violated they sure need protectors what with all the human rights violations they've committed over the years and horrific crimes and protection of child molesters

how dare we discuss his new vile Christmas day speech!

 

[Count Dookkake]

As a very conservative pope, he's doing his job - sure I don't agree with it but I'll hold off until we get a more modern pope

His views have been known for a long time.. These threads serve as nothing but fodder to attack the church - nothing new is ever discussed - have fun doing it on Christmas

Do you make this complaint in the various religion OTs?

 

[Schattenjäger]

Do you make this complaint in the various religion OTs?

No I don't

 

[Count Dookkake]

No I don't

Dat lack of integrity.

 

[Amir0x]

Dat lack of integrity.

he also apparently can't read the stickied topic about thread whining.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given to them by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man's fundamental choice where he himself is concerned.

Umm, doesn't this mean that he embraces gay people?

 

[Jooney]

Of all the things he could focus on in his Christmas message, this is what he has to say? What an increasingly irrelevant old man.

The Catholic Church's views on social issues are one of the reasons why I left the church many years ago. It's great to get a timely reminder of why I did now and then.

 

[G-Unit]

I never understand why the Pope and other religious leaders never addresses the actual problem of how everyone is getting divorced leaving children in loveless, broken families who scar them far more emotionally than whatever fucked up fantasy they have about how a loving homosexual family unit functions.

Less people get married today, more than half of all marriages end in divorce... maybe there's something wrong with the institution of marriage itself?

What? no seriously what? my local churche always talk about this issues all year. ALL YEAR..-- and im pretty sure pope have addressed it plenty of times already

 

[Kurtofan]

To be fair to Catholics, the article also mentions the Jewish leader of France being an absolute shit towards Gay people, but the pope has way more influence, especially since it's his fucking Christmas message.

Chief Rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, who has argued that the campaign for granting gays the right to marry and adopt children is an "attack" on the traditional family. Bernheim's study, "Gay Marriage, Parenthood and Adoption: What We Often Forget to Say," contends that efforts to legalize same-sex marriage are being made for "the exclusive profit of a tiny minority" and are often supported on account of political correctness.

 

[Count Dookkake]

he also apparently can't read the stickied topic about thread whining.

Huh, imagine that.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Dat lack of integrity.

Dat missing the point

 

[Count Dookkake]

Dat missing the point

Irrelevant.

I scored.

 

[Amir0x]

What? no seriously what? my local churche always talk about this issues all year. ALL YEAR..-- and im pretty sure pope have addressed it plenty of times already

Of course. I already responded to the point, my original post was largely sarcasm. Here is what my point was:

Of course it is. My point was to illustrate that they keep trying to act as if there is some major misfunction with gay marriage, whereas regular marriage has tons of problems in modern society. It makes no sense to try to proclaim that gay marriage is some especially outrageous mark on humanity when regular ol' marriage is basically a broken institution scarring families around the world. And this is all with good ol' straight people.

Stated another way... if regular marriage is already broken, what difference does it make to introduce gay marriage even if you also believe it's broken?

 

[Schattenjäger]

he also apparently can't read the stickied topic about thread whining.

You can call it whining, I call it defending my religion

 

[Count Dookkake]

You can call it whining, I call it defending my religion

You can call it "defending [your] religion," I call it not understanding how things work.

 

[Schattenjäger]

You can call it "defending [your] religion," I call it not understanding how things work.

Merry Christmas ! Happy Holidays !

 

[Amir0x]

You can call it whining, I call it defending my religion

Defending your religion is looking at points being raised and addressing why you feel they're wrong.

Thread whining is saying the thread is unnecessary and people discuss these same points all the time and blah blah

there is a difference ya know, and I wish you did add in your relevant points so we have more differing points of view in here. I mean this is supposed to be God's, like, vessel on Earth, no? Can't we discuss the blatantly wrong things he says and what that implies?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Merry Christmas ! Happy Holidays !

lol, which one is it, Mr. Defender-of-the-Faith?

 

[BocoDragon]

Obey the morality police of the roman empire!

 

[Dead Man]

As a very conservative pope, he's doing his job - sure I don't agree with it but I'll hold off until we get a more modern pope

His views have been known for a long time.. These threads serve as nothing but fodder to attack the church - nothing new is ever discussed - have fun doing it on Christmas

Boxing day here.

 

[Chichikov]

To be fair to Catholics, the article also mentions the Jewish leader of France being an absolute shit towards Gay people, but the pope has way more influence, especially since it's his fucking Christmas message.

How is it being fair to Catholics?
I always believed that the "but he's a dick too!" defense is a weak one.
And it's not like anyone ever criticized the catholic church on the basis that there are no assholes in the world.

 

[Kurtofan]

How is it being fair to Catholics?
I always believed that the "but he's a dick too!" defense is a weak one.
And it's not like anyone ever criticized the catholic church on the basis that there are no assholes in the world.

Oh no, I agree that the Pope is the worst, but it's not like other religions are exempt of criticism on the subject.I'm not trying to white wash anything here.

I guess "to be fair to Catholics" was adressed to tolerant Catholics who don't think like the pope.

 

[Stinkles]

Old people are resistant to change. News at 11.

Like what much of the pope says now a days I will just ignore it.

P.S. Pope you still got those pedo priests hanging over your head. Don't even get started at 'destroying humanity essence' shit.

But it's not old people. Its an incredibly powerful and wealthy organization that literally tells billions of people how to behave. It does so allegedly in the name of Christ's love. Because he was always going off about the gays.

 

[Alrus]

To be fair to Catholics, the article also mentions the Jewish leader of France being an absolute shit towards Gay people, but the pope has way more influence, especially since it's his fucking Christmas message.

Damn that quote is incredibly ironic.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Oh no, I agree that the Pope is the worst, but it's not like other religions are exempt of criticism on the subject.I'm not trying to white wash anything here.

I guess "to be fair to Catholics" was adressed to tolerant Catholics who don't think like the pope.

And I'm kinda offended that people think that others who have Catholic way of thinking are not tolerant.

Talk about over generalization.

I also don't see the point of addressing his points, if you people want this kind of thought be forgotten, then don't bring it up for more people to see. Also, posts such as "go fuck yourself, Pope!" really aren't contributing anything to this kind of conversation. Not saying you shouldn't post, but just take it as food for thought. Also, it's kind of rude to insult the maximum figure of a religious in a place where you're bound to find people of that religion.

 

[Count Dookkake]

And I'm kinda offended that people think that others who have Catholic way of thinking are not tolerant.

Talk about over generalization.

I also don't see the point of addressing his points, if you people want this kind of thought be forgotten, then don't bring it up for more people to see. Also, posts such as "go fuck yourself, Pope!" really aren't contributing anything to this kind of conversation. Not saying you shouldn't post, but just take it as food for thought. Also, it's kind of rude to insult the maximum figure of a religious in a place where you're bound to find people of that religion.

How'd that work for the pedophile priest thing?

 

[Kiraly]

I like the way Pope Benny sounds.

 

[Sickboy007]

You can call it whining, I call it defending my religion

You're not doing a great job, your main point was "I hope he's dying soon, but whatevs".

 

[Bo-Locks]

As I keep reminding to all my (mostly liberal) Catholic friends -
The church had changed its mind on bigger things than gay marriage.
This too shall pass.

I completely agree, but how many years from now do you think the Catholic Church will (begrudgingly) lend their support to gay marriage? 10 years from now? 50 years? 100 years? More?

The Catholic Church and other religious bodies are being increasingly marginalised in the modern world, and as society naturally moves forwards, those institutions (as they always have) will have to adapt or die, albeit while complaining loudly from the sidelines.

 

[Chichikov]

Oh no, I agree that the Pope is the worst, but it's not like other religions are exempt of criticism on the subject.I'm not trying to white wash anything here.

I didn't realize we're playing religion idol (hurr hurr).
But seriously, I never saw the value in trying to do such rankings, it's not like people pick religions like that.

And for the record, I don't think other religions are exempt, just that it's not really relevant to this subject - unless you want to make some bigger point about religion as a whole, but please don't (we don't need to go there).

I completely agree, but how many years from now do you think the Catholic Church will (begrudgingly) lend their support to gay marriage? 10 years from now? 50 years? 100 years? More?

The Catholic Church and other religious bodies are being increasingly marginalised in the modern world, and as society naturally moves forwards, those institutions (as they always have) will have to adapt or die, albeit while complaining loudly from the sidelines.

I think they'll de-focus themselves in the next 20 years, have no idea about dogmatic change, but I think in practical terms it will settle to something like their stand on contraception right now sooner than you think.

 

[Rayis]

Meh, as a gay person, It doesn't bother me at all if he thinks that

 

[speculawyer]

Bashing gays is such a win win for religions. It is A tiny percent of the population so no big loss. They don't reproduce as much so not loss of a growing demographic. And it gives people a smug satisfaction to avoid this sin. Never mind they don't even want to violate it.

 

[JohnDoe]

It is A tiny percent of the population so no big loss.

If I recall correctly it's 10%.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

How'd that work for the pedophile priest thing?

I am pretty sure that the Church said that any father who was caught being a pedophile would be excomulgated.

Which has happened in my country to all priests who have done that as far as I know.

EDIT: Oh, or you mean not bringing up the topic of priest pedophilia?

 

[Count Dookkake]

I am pretty sure that the Church said that any father who was caught being a pedophile would be excomulgated.

Which has happened in my country to all priests who have done that as far as I know.

Let me explain it for the cheap seats:

-You suggested not talking about bad things, in hopes that they would just go away.
-I rebutted that POV, by bringing up the Catholic kid raping scandal.
-That was something that was not supposed to be spoken of, but once enough people started talking about it, the church had to be a bit more careful.
-The point that you are supposed to get from my question is that talking about things works better than being quiet about them.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Let me explain it for the cheap seats:

-You suggested not talking about bad things, in hopes that they would just go away.
-I rebutted that POV, by bringing up the Catholic kid raping scandal.
-That was something that was not supposed to be spoken of, but once enough people started talking about it, the church had to be a bit more careful.
-The point that you are supposed to get from my question is that talking about things works better than being quiet about them.

Ah, I see.

What I mean, is that if you disagree with a point from someone, then why bring it up? You'll only anger people who do no agree with him or her (which was seen here only in the first posts of the thread), and you only give him or her more popularity (only see every Pachter thread of Gaming section).

Now, for the topics that work better when they're not talk about: I am not saying they should not be spoken of. Things like pedophilia should be exposed and resolved. I only meant in terms of popularity and giving attention to things you don't like, that get people angrier to others.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Ah, I see.

What I mean, is that if you disagree with a point from someone, then why bring it up? You'll only anger people who do no agree with him or her (which was seen here only in the first posts of the thread), and you only give him or her more popularity (only see every Pachter thread of Gaming section).

Now, for the topics that work better when they're not talk about: I am not saying they should not be spoken of. Things like pedophilia should be exposed and resolved. I only meant in terms of popularity and giving attention to things you don't like, that get people angrier to others.

Are you suggesting that by discussing this hateful position of the Catholic church, we may somehow end up promoting it?

I very much doubt that there exists a large, untapped population of gay haters who haven't figured out which hateful religious organization to belong to.