Cheesecakebobby
Banned
Congratulations for being less of a monster than most of your predecessors and being more like a decent moral human being.
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Pope compares sexual abuse to "satanic Mass", says will meet victims
- Thread starter CrazyDude
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thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
This pope is pretty cool. I like him a lot more than Palpatine. Kick some ass, Frank.
That said, we want to see results!
I think that's kind of the plan.
That said, we want to see results!
I think that's kind of the plan.
Wow, that's all you could add to the topic? Defamatory accusations of my character I knew zealot gaf could go low but that's pretty bold. The fedora nods were cute but your a vile person to take my stance on this story as me being a child molester. . You don't even know me.
CountAntonius
Member
It ain't gonna happen of course but good for them having what seems to be a more progressive leader.
umop_3pisdn
Member
"Fake it 'til you make it" is literally the advice they give for people who want to believe in God but can't. So you imagine a presence as if it were there, and eventually that becomes 'real'
I'm not really that into it either, but my inner psychologist thinks it's kind of neat.You are taking this waaaaaaay too seriously. It was a joke based on your comments and you know it.
Chill out.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Thanks Best Pope Francis, you are the best pope.
As someone who would identify as a Satanist if not for a small number of disagreements within the philosophy, I love this Pope and wish him the longest life possible. For the record he isn't suggesting Satanist do these things. I suppose it is possible that he spoke colloquially of the Black Mass, which is something people who identified as classical devil worshipers or theistic (Pre-LaVey) satanist practiced.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Holy shit, i've seen some name calling on GAF....but wow.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I love this guy as pope.
They set the bar so high.
Deified Data
Banned
The difference between a Catholic communion and a Satanic mass is that you're a lot less likely to get raped at a Satanic mass.
Saintguine
Member
Wow, a pope actually taking a stance and action against scumbags and corruption in the church rather than sticking his head in the sand? Colour me impressed.
Put down the knife, the goat and the fedora and read the article my friend.
Put down the knife, the goat and the fedora and read the article my friend.
Zomba13
Member
Yeah, how dare people think the Pope saying Child abuse is fucking disgusting is a good thing. How very dare the Pope think child abuse in the church is a crime against god and all they stand for just like a satanic mass is.
The pope should be doing his job as a good Christian and praising kiddy fiddling right?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Much like how the Church equates homosexuality with lying, on the basis of them both being "sins" - whereas heterosexuality isn't inherently wrong according to Catholic doctrine.
Honestly, I see his point, the Pope is equating two concepts that aren't really comparable in the real world. Someone worshiping Satan isn't wrong, someone sexually abusing a child is.
TitusGroan
Banned
I do see Sthathiam's point, even if he was going on something of a moral crusade. And for all I support Pope Francis (hopefully) cracking down in sexual abuse in the Church, I do think he could have worded his statement better.
Satanism is wrong according to Catholicism because of a difference in theology. Paedophilia is wrong because it's illegal, and demonstrably harmful. If you carry on the same train of thought, homosexuality is seen as 'wrong' by the Catholic church because of theology, but has been decriminalized and supported in a growing number of Western nations because it isn't demonstrably harmful in any way.
Comparing an illegal actively harmful activity to a difference in theology is always problematic, no matter how well intentioned. That said, I wish Pope Francis all the best in bringing an end to this sorry saga. It really should have been dealt with long before now, and it's nice to see someone try and adopt a hardline stance on this issue.
Satanism is wrong according to Catholicism because of a difference in theology. Paedophilia is wrong because it's illegal, and demonstrably harmful. If you carry on the same train of thought, homosexuality is seen as 'wrong' by the Catholic church because of theology, but has been decriminalized and supported in a growing number of Western nations because it isn't demonstrably harmful in any way.
Comparing an illegal actively harmful activity to a difference in theology is always problematic, no matter how well intentioned. That said, I wish Pope Francis all the best in bringing an end to this sorry saga. It really should have been dealt with long before now, and it's nice to see someone try and adopt a hardline stance on this issue.
...like a satanic mass.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Seriously.
I'm an atheist and still think that this pope is the best pope the world has ever had.
EDIT: Also for some reason I think this article alone would make a great South Park episode, don't ask me why.
Pedophiles actually do exactly that, which is why they tend to flock towards careers that gives them a position of authority over children like teaching.
This is not a hunch or a personal opinion, it has been stablished as a fact by criminologists. Noone in their sane mind would argue that becoming a teacher would turn you into a pedophile, yet there are people that believes that becoming a priest would turn you into one *sigh* Correlation =/= causation, folks
As a Catholic, I certainly hope so. There are several orders / local branches of the Catholic Church that let their priests marry already, so I don't see too much of a doctrine problem.
Still, I do believe that the problem is within the concept of priesthood itself. You cannot pretend to be a force of good in the world if you don't live on it and try to isolate yourself from it.
He certainly talks a lot. A lot of the things he said are empty words that are completely non-actionable, like him trying to resolve the Palestine/Israel conflict. This, however, is one of the few things that he can actually fix. In fact, this is the very thing that he can do the most, being the leader of the organization. Keeping my fingers crossed and see how it goes.
No, but I was at one point and I remain fond of LaVey Satanism. As it's philosophy is quite modular its easy to discard the few portions I dislike, so easy in fact that after such modifications I ended up with the conclusion that I was merely an atheist with a philosophical and humanist bent. I suppose it's semantics as that more or less the spine of Satanism anyways though.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
This Pope is dope.
I'm glad the Pope is attempting to move the church in a positive direction. It's tough to drag an ancient conservative religion with a lot of negative history into modern times, but the man seems to be giving it a good try. Still a lot of issues like homosexuality and women's equality, and he needs more action as his stint as Pope goes on, but it's a nice start. Over 1000 years of tradition and doctrine isn't going to change overnight. If our evangelical Christian leaders in the U.S. had half the compassion and sense Pope Francis had, we'd be in a much better place right now.
"Fake it 'til you make it" is literally the advice they give for people who want to believe in God but can't. So you imagine a presence as if it were there, and eventually that becomes 'real'
We've all told ourselves a lie until we sort of believed it to be true.
He's not talking to satanists. He's not talking to atheists either. The pope's words matter because they matter to Catholics, and to Catholics, visiting a satanic mass is a severe violation of the church doctrine. Thus, what he's saying to the Catholics and priests whose viewpoints he helps shape is that pedophilia is just as bad in the context of the church.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Your target audience isn't exactly relevant when it comes to putting a different belief's religious rituals at the same level as pedophilia. That same argument could be used to equate homosexuality with pedophilia, when speaking to a crowd who believe that homosexuality is a severe violation of the church doctrine.
It's not that big of a deal, as modern day Satanists would use this as ammo for the anti-Catholic machine gun, but it's still something we as outside observers are allowed to note.
What exactly are modern day Satanists? I remember reading about them during that whole "black mass" thing on the east coast, but it seemed just to be atheists trying to be rude to believers by calling themselves Satanists.
To my mind, this is the first time a Pope has ever taken a victim-centric approach to this problem. Usually, the official response meant dealing with (usually doing nothing) the accused and kind of ignoring that there were victims at all. Just the acknowledgement that some kind of outreach is owed to these victims is a pretty big step forward.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Pedophilia is worse, actually.
The UN hasn't been too pleased with the Vatican's handling of this.
Feb '14
23 May '14
It's good that he's personally opening dialogue with the abused, but you would want proper criminal investigations into the crimes.
Feb '14
23 May '14
It's good that he's personally opening dialogue with the abused, but you would want proper criminal investigations into the crimes.
umop_3pisdn
Member
That may be but this seems a bit more profound of a lie at least, and I mean that in a good way.
One of those two isn't the responsability of the Catholic Church, but of your local authorities. It is always strange when the news break another story like this, but they never go to the police.
anotherVegan
Member
First post, GAF never ceases to amaze
The same argument was not used to equate homosexuality with pedophilia though. It's stupid to say that he could have, because he simply didn't.
He also didn't say that satanism was as bad as pedophilia. He said that a priest molesting a child was in the eyes of the church the same as a priest attending a black mass. That is, they're both punishable offenses.
Let's not get too hasty.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Guys, I think he's referencing Satanism in the same way as the whole SRA thing (whether that's a real phenomenon or not). It's just a rhetorical technique to convey how horrific it is and since he's using it to condemn his own organization I think that's what makes it a particularly powerful condemnation. I mean a lot of regular people probably think that Satanists are the ones doing SRA (and Laveyan types are just trolls), I wouldn't really expect the leader of the Catholic church to be particularly informed on the subject.
speculawyer
Member
I'd much rather have the satanic mass.
pretty good comparison actually :lol
Of course he's not actually doing too much, but I'm not sure what the guys jumping on him expect. I mean, he's the pope. You're never going to get a guy who wants to radically change the whole catholic system in that position.
I'm not a religious myself, but I appreciate that he's tackling important issues in catholicism and that he actually seems like a guy who's sending the message of loving your neighbor. Baby steps, sure, but I don't think you can really ask for much more.
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