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Pope Francis Says the Ban on Women Priests Will Last Forever
- Thread starter Johndoey
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gutter_trash
Banned
stay losing Catholic Church!!!
I am allowed to say that because I'm a non-religious cultural Catholic, I only celebrate the feasts and holidays but I don't give a shit about the religious parts
I am allowed to say that because I'm a non-religious cultural Catholic, I only celebrate the feasts and holidays but I don't give a shit about the religious parts
Extra Sauce
Member
No it won't.
Can Crusher
Banned
If you change everything about the Catholic Church, what's left?
Anyway, just give it time.
Anyway, just give it time.
SwiftDeath
Member
All of Jesus's apostles were male per what exactly?
The Bible which was written how long after the events by men with morals based at that time some 1,000 - 1,500 years ago? Yeah I'm sorry but even if Jesus had a female apostle I imagine judging by how some of the other stories are written, the writers of the bible would not hesitate to remove her from history.
I don't actually think there was necessarily a female apostle but the whole argument is dumb.
The Bible which was written how long after the events by men with morals based at that time some 1,000 - 1,500 years ago? Yeah I'm sorry but even if Jesus had a female apostle I imagine judging by how some of the other stories are written, the writers of the bible would not hesitate to remove her from history.
I don't actually think there was necessarily a female apostle but the whole argument is dumb.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Sorry, ishi..
afternoon delight
Member
Maybe he knows something we don't?
It always made me wonder why so much of Christianity had to do with creating ways to think of yourself as a lesser-than.
It always made me wonder why so much of Christianity had to do with creating ways to think of yourself as a lesser-than.
I find it weird that people expect the Catholic church to suddenly get modernized and have totally rational beliefs and policies. They eat the literal body and blood of a 2000 year old Arab every Sunday. It's more surprising that anything ever changes in the church considering everything they say and do is based on the word of God (or those ostensibly chosen to speak for him).
Edit: Didn't see this post, but yeah. Exactly.
Edit: Didn't see this post, but yeah. Exactly.
Yup.
It's important to note when progress has been made (relating to issues dealing with LGBTQ peoples) and when they're going to stick to their guns (like this).
The bible actually says women can't lead the church. More than once.
More_Badass
Member
That's insane when you think about it. We celebrate countries' centennials, but the Church has been around longer than the entire notion of a "new world" existing. An organization around when the Roman Empire fell is still around today
Audioboxer
Member
Devout Catholicism is one hell of a drug. By that I mean a dangerous, discriminatory and intellectually ridiculous drug.
It's one of the worst old man's clubs around. I guess the freemasons has it rivaled, but as far as I know Catholicism has them beat for child abuse committed by men.
The Bible says a lot of shit about women but unfortunately it doesn't stop women's study groups interpretating it all as somehow empowerment, love and God seeing them as warriors of the faith.
Whereas to the neutral eye all the main religious texts are misogynistic pieces of shit. It's no wonder the world still has such terrible social views of women when all the major large religions can hide behind their faith to abuse, discriminate and continue to treat women as lower class than men.
Edit: Sorry for going ham but I have very little tolerance left these days for such open and celebrated discrimination against women.
It's one of the worst old man's clubs around. I guess the freemasons has it rivaled, but as far as I know Catholicism has them beat for child abuse committed by men.
The Bible says a lot of shit about women but unfortunately it doesn't stop women's study groups interpretating it all as somehow empowerment, love and God seeing them as warriors of the faith.
Whereas to the neutral eye all the main religious texts are misogynistic pieces of shit. It's no wonder the world still has such terrible social views of women when all the major large religions can hide behind their faith to abuse, discriminate and continue to treat women as lower class than men.
Edit: Sorry for going ham but I have very little tolerance left these days for such open and celebrated discrimination against women.
I'd be surprised, but on the other hand I have not really thought about dwindling numbers either.
When the leader of the organization goes out of his way to say "forever" then the idea that it will modernize slowly and we should just be patient goes out the window a bit. He puts the focus on the policy and it never changing.
gutter_trash
Banned
the Bible was man written,
heck, some Protestants have warped the interpretations of the "fables" as "historical facts"
the Bible should be ammendmentable IMO, make amendments for the realities of 2016
heck, some Protestants have warped the interpretations of the "fables" as "historical facts"
the Bible should be ammendmentable IMO, make amendments for the realities of 2016
The first Apostle was Mary of Magdala. The first witness of Christ resurrection and the first to spread the good news to the other disciples was a woman. A woman had the privilege of being the first to witness the revelation of Christ resurrected. This is just a weak excuse of an ankilosed hierarchy that will sooner or latter break.
Skellig Gra
Member
I don't know about amendments to the Bible but they can certainly update their doctrine since none of that is actually in the Bible.
Wheeljack539
Member
I'm curious though, how much of a push for female priests are there outside of the US? Mainly as when I hear about this I notice that its usually those in the States who want to push for it however with the Vatican in Rome I would think there's far less chance for any influence so I'm curious if there are groups pushing for it in Europe.
I remember an argument I had with my mother on this, was really surprised that she vehemently opposed the idea of women being priests.
He's as super liberal as Obama is socialist. Which means not particularly.
Netherscourge
Banned
Jesus is MRA?
Dark_3nergy
Member
But if we could change water to wine, nothing would ever get done!
Wellll... on the bright side, we'd all be having a good time! I guess that's something.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Progressive pope keeps winning.
(I understand he can't just go and change it even if he wanted to. But I don't think he wants to.)
(I understand he can't just go and change it even if he wanted to. But I don't think he wants to.)
Lord Frieza
Member
I think people had some really high ambitions for Francis's reign as Pope after some surprisingly progressive views (progressive for a Catholic Pope, anyway), but I think comments like this and the views on Trans-persons have shown that he may be a little more liberal-minded, but he's not going to be uprooting the Catholic belief system or anything.
SwiftDeath
Member
Are we sure that wasn't just asking Peter to house-sit while Jesus was waiting to be resurrected?
"the gates of Hades will not prevail against it" = No wild Parties
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" = Jesus has sweet nicknames for his cribs
"whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" = Don't think Jesus won't hear about your wild parties while he's waiting in heaven.
SwiftDeath
Member
That's certainly a fair point but unlike whatever religion you make up, Catholics make up 1 in 6 people of the world and this is the highest human authority for their religion basically reinforcing sexist views, whether intentional or not. His influence and beliefs can have a notable effect on the world.
I've never considered Francis as an progressive pope in the sense of individiual freedom and improvement of the church society.
I only saw him as a pope who is more, well, left in the economical sense, trying to show more clotheness towards poor people and stuff. So I'm not very surprised he doesn't see any need to change the state of female priests.
Still. We know the church can change if they want to. But if so then only as a part of another Vatican Council, which would be really big deal if it would happen. And his argument is kinda strange. I mean, on one hand within the Catholic Church where the Marian devotions is a pretty big deal. But on the other hand they don't consider women to be worthy to become priest.
It's just strange. I really kinda hope to see something like a new Council happening where they might come to a more progressive conclusion.
I only saw him as a pope who is more, well, left in the economical sense, trying to show more clotheness towards poor people and stuff. So I'm not very surprised he doesn't see any need to change the state of female priests.
Still. We know the church can change if they want to. But if so then only as a part of another Vatican Council, which would be really big deal if it would happen. And his argument is kinda strange. I mean, on one hand within the Catholic Church where the Marian devotions is a pretty big deal. But on the other hand they don't consider women to be worthy to become priest.
It's just strange. I really kinda hope to see something like a new Council happening where they might come to a more progressive conclusion.
I view it as more a reflection of patriarchal power structures already in place. Sure they perpetuate it, thats kind of their gig.
People already view women as lesser, oh look this religion says my views are correct! self reinforcing loop of stupid.
So guys, can you see a person born today becoming the pope in sixty years and still supporting bullshit like this? The world is moving faster than ever and if catholicism doesn't want to become irrelevant they will have to change even against their will.
My timeline would be something like this: divorce 20 years, woman priesthood and marriage in priesthood 30 years, gay marriage 50; women's rights 80.
And that still is too slow. Maybe like republicans in the end they want to go the way of the dodo.
My timeline would be something like this: divorce 20 years, woman priesthood and marriage in priesthood 30 years, gay marriage 50; women's rights 80.
And that still is too slow. Maybe like republicans in the end they want to go the way of the dodo.
Octavianus
Banned
He was never cool.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I've worked with catholics younger than myself who thought the bible to be taken at face value and shit and I'm only 23. Yes I can believe that in 60 years there'll still sit a pos on the papal throne.
The Albatross
Member
It'd be a difficult thing to undo theologically.
I think we'll see priests being able to marry in my lifetime, but we will not see women priests in the Catholic Church for generations, if ever.
The Catholic Church has never taught that the Bible be taken "at face value" (e.g., read literally). This has been a major bone of contention between protestant denominations and the Church for centuries. The Church doubled down on rejecting Biblical literalism at Vatican II:
I think we'll see priests being able to marry in my lifetime, but we will not see women priests in the Catholic Church for generations, if ever.
The Catholic Church has never taught that the Bible be taken "at face value" (e.g., read literally). This has been a major bone of contention between protestant denominations and the Church for centuries. The Church doubled down on rejecting Biblical literalism at Vatican II:
He has? Or was it talk for medias?
I love how there were talk about homosexuals should not be rejected by the church, but the pope vetoed the french ambassador for Vatican, most probably because he was homosexual. For 14 months, there wasn't a french ambassador in Vatican because France didn't want to suggest someone else, and Francis didn't want him.
I'm REALLY sad that France gave up after a little more than a year.
But that's one more example that convinced me it's mostly double talk.
A better social institution? Many such examples come to mind that could use a radical overhaul.
Ron Mexico
Member
Forever*
*Until the prevailing winds means the church is forced to reconsider or risk losing its strength in numbers.
I would have been floored to hear anything else.
*Until the prevailing winds means the church is forced to reconsider or risk losing its strength in numbers.
I would have been floored to hear anything else.
Astral Dog
Member
Jesus was a bit sexist
Catholics don't (or better yet, they shouldn't) take the Bible at face value. Only the uninformed ones. The Bible is a compendium of writings with a time gap between the oldest to the most recent one of 1100 years, of course it's filled with contradictions and abhorrent (to the current times) dictates. It's Jesus that's the revolution and the lens that's needed to read and understand the Bible. His resurrection and message overturn all the rest. He is the new paradigm and current still until these times.
Astral Dog
Member
That golden throne was pretty cool though
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