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[Pimpbaa]

To give you some perspective: What you are suggesting is worse than saying a big pool of low speed ddr4 is better for GPU than a smaller but much faster pool of vram

That is far more applicable to what you are arguing. Standard hard drives will cripple next gen consoles just like DD3 crippled the XB1.

Please provide said examples! Already covered WoW and why it doesn't apply.

PC MMORPGs (or any online game with large numbers of random players on screen) benefit greatly from SSDs, not just because they can stream in environment textures more quickly but more importantly players characters. All because SSDs handle multiple requests for data far better. They are good examples due to their requirements of often needing large amounts of random data at once.

Mark my words: SSDs won't make it to next gen consoles, best case scenario they ship with a 100-200 GB on board cache

Oh they will find a way to cripple them, either a standard hard drive or something else. I know a SSD as standard is wishful thinking. But I just think that will be the only way really take advantage of whatever hardware next gen will have. A 5400 rpm 2.5" with no flash ram cache of any kind would be a ddr3 as you main memory type of mistake.

 

[Meh3D]

Has anyone explained how every other person, YouTube, web tabloid, forum poster etc... jumped from "this could be like/close to what a next-gen console SoC could be like" to "this is the secret super-secret SoC Sony/Microsoft is using"?

I've been skimming this thread and I'm still confused. This APU will be going into AMD's AM4 socket which has nothing to do with any consoles.

Just asking.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Has anyone explained how every other person, YouTube, web tabloid, forum poster etc... jumped from "this could be like/close to what a next-gen console SoC could be like" to "this is the secret super-secret SoC Sony/Microsoft is using"?

I've been skimming this thread and I'm still confused. This APU will be going into AMD's AM4 socket which has nothing to do with any consoles.

Just asking.

It's what I've asked too. It's entirely possible that this is just a semicustom part for a more niche player than Microsoft/Sony, as they did one for the Subor Z.

I think it's probably *close* to what the next gen consoles will have anyways, but there's been little reason to think that this is the chip for sure.

 

[SonGoku]

Standard hard drives will cripple next gen consoles just like DD3 crippled the XB1.

lol sure that's why next gen consoles will have standard HDD, the only thing that's gonna be crippled is load times

PC MMORPGs (or any online game with large numbers of random players on screen) benefit greatly from SSDs, not just because they can stream in environment textures more quickly but more importantly players characters. All because SSDs handle multiple requests for data far better. They are good examples due to their requirements of often needing large amounts of random data at once.

Again you have not provided one single example where a game with high memory requirements benefits from a sdd in anything other than load times
Of course games designed around streaming for low spec memory will benefit from SSDs, that's the complete opposite of what im arguing

But I just think that will be the only way really take advantage of whatever hardware next gen will have.

Its the least cost effective way
If HDDs really become limiting in their tests, they can always include a big pool of high speed memory cache something like 100gb of nvram.

 

[onQ123]

Translation

Since the ID of Ariel (PS5) has been disclosed in certain places, there are more and more topics to talk about. (1/2)

The USB configuration consists of "USB 3.1 type-c Gen2 × 1 + gen 2 × 1 (DP Alt Mode)", and "USB3.1 type-a Gen 2 × 2". Also, from the ID of ZCN/MP4, I'm guessing that the custom of VCN. I wonder if the improvement in the recording function and delivery function. (2/2).

PS5, (?) USB3.1 type-c (DP Alt Mode) is one port, or the next generation machine.

USB 3.1 Gen2. Forgot to write.

 

[onQ123]

http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1022

 

[Shin]

Well I guess that's that then since Brad already dropped the codename Arden some weeks ago and there's Anubis as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzdM-EKRxJc
In terms of codenames Ariel/Anubis aren't bad it's just a codename after all, but still Lockhart/Arden is plain ugly , here's the list "sorted" - https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1022?sort=rid

 

[ethomaz]

This type C port can fast recharge.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well I guess that's that then since Brad already dropped the codename Arden some weeks ago and there's Anubis as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzdM-EKRxJc
In terms of codenames Ariel/Anubis aren't bad it's just a codename after all, but still Lockhart/Arden is plain ugly , here's the list "sorted" - https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1022?sort=rid

Anubis is mixed with Arden there not Ariel... this is getting confusing .

 

[onQ123]

2GHz?

that would be 12TF even from 48 CUs

 

[Leonidas]

2GHz?

that would be 12TF even from 48 CUs

Sounds like it could make a decent desktop GPU. Doubt a console would be clocked anywhere near that level though with the power/heat restraints in a console...

 

[onQ123]

Sounds like it could make a decent desktop GPU. Doubt a console would be clocked anywhere near that level though with the power/heat restraints in a console...

56 CUs can hit 12TF at 1.7GHz

 

[Leonidas]

56 CUs can hit 12TF at 1.7GHz

Indeed, but it's too much speculation right now. We have no idea what the clocks or CU counts will be.

 

[GoldenEye98]

I'd be shocked if the they even hit 1.5GHz....let alone 1.7 or 2GHZ.

1.2-1.3GHz much more likely.

Remember all current gen consoles GPU are sub 1GHZ....except the X1X which is 1.17GHz....and that took bit more engineering/more advanced cooling and a premium price than usually goes into a console.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I'd be shocked if the they even hit 1.5GHz....let alone 1.7 or 2GHZ.

1.2-1.3GHz much more likely.

Remember all current gen consoles GPU are sub 1GHZ....except the X1X which is 1.17GHz....and that took bit more engineering/more advanced cooling and a premium price than usually goes into a console.

TSMCs 7nm stated gains iirc are 40% higher clocks at the same power use, or 60% lower power at the same performance. PS4 Pro GPU being 911MHz, if the cooling capacity is kept relatively the same right between 1.2GHz-1.3GHz does make sense.

Moonshot hope of mine is a reversion to dedicated GPU and CPU dies while retaining a unified memory pool; that allows what developers wanted from APUs, unified memory, while also allowing each half to be cooled better and have a higher total TDP in turn.

 

[Silver Wattle]

I'd be shocked if the they even hit 1.5GHz....let alone 1.7 or 2GHZ.

1.2-1.3GHz much more likely.

Remember all current gen consoles GPU are sub 1GHZ....except the X1X which is 1.17GHz....and that took bit more engineering/more advanced cooling and a premium price than usually goes into a console.

If 2Ghz is Navi boost clocks, then we can expect 1.7-1.8Ghz standard clocks, a console would be clocked a bit lower for better performance/watt so my guess would be around 1.5Ghz.

 

[ethomaz]

2.0Ghz is probably overexpectation for desktop Navi chips... said that 1.7Ghz I guess it where it will fall fall for these PC parts.

On console I hope something around 1.5Ghz.

 

[Silver Wattle]

2.0Ghz is probably overexpectation for desktop Navi chips... said that 1.7Ghz I guess it where it will fall fall for these PC parts.

On console I hope something around 1.5Ghz.

Vega VII is early 7nm using old arch, it hits 1.7Ghz without issue.
Navi will clock higher.

 

[ethomaz]

Vega VII is early 7nm using old arch, it hits 1.7Ghz without issue.
Navi will clock higher.

Vega VII base clock is 1.4Ghz.

It hits 1.7Ghz when the GPU is not in full load... that is called boost clock that can generated throttling.

Consoles doesn’t use boost clock for obvious reasons.

If AMD could reach 1.7Ghz at full load with Vega VII it should not have performace below GTX 2080 but a bit ahead it.

 

[onQ123]

2.0Ghz is probably overexpectation for desktop Navi chips... said that 1.7Ghz I guess it where it will fall fall for these PC parts.

On console I hope something around 1.5Ghz.

Remember this strange number that seemed to be in error ?

AMD Ryzen cpu custom configuration 3.20 , 7nm Navi gpu 2.1 18gddr5 Is what I heard a while ago. As far as the public announcement It will be soon. I sent this info to a mod a while ago I couldn’t post until something else leaked first. I’ll post everything now that something semi accurate is out there.

 

[ethomaz]

Remember this strange number that seemed to be in error ?

Let’s see what AMD did with Navi but aí don’t know.

Navi is supposed to launch late this year... I think May-June will be time to see some leaks.

 

[onQ123]

Let’s see what AMD did with Navi but aí don’t know.

Navi is supposed to launch late this year... I think May-June will be time to see some leaks.

Something else that seem to add up that was crazy before is the rumor about 3640 SPs because if PS5 GPU is 56 CUs with 64 ALUs in each CU plus 1 extra ALU that would be 3640



so if the rumor is true the GPU would have 56 CUs but each CU will have a extra ALU attached to it somehow making it 65 ALUs for every CU

 

[ethomaz]

Something else that seem to add up that was crazy before is the rumor about 3640 SPs because if PS5 GPU is 56 CUs with 64 ALUs in each CU plus 1 extra ALU that would be 3640



so if the rumor is true the GPU would have 56 CUs but each CU will have a extra ALU attached to it somehow making it 65 ALUs for every CU

65 ALUs does not match binary that silicons uses... it is weird... it could be 128 thought.

There is a reason why it is base of 2... 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, etc.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

My expectations for next gen are quite simple :
- much improved load times. Sf5 arcade edition is a nightmare.
- 60 fps on 90% of games.
- 4k, native or not i don t care. Just crisp so that it displays nicdly on a 75" tv.
- local co cop on most games should be the focus. 4 players split screen, each with 1080p.
- long lasting controller batteries. I m looking at you ds4.
- quite and silent box. Ps4 pro brrr....

Oh and by the way god of war 3 >>>>> god of war ps4 for me.

 

[Redneckerz]

Remember this strange number that seemed to be in error ?

We also haven't really heard back from OsirisBlack to you know, confirm things, so i would put everything into an case file and re-assess this when the time comes for it.

 

[McHuj]

My expectations for next gen are quite simple :
- much improved load times. Sf5 arcade edition is a nightmare.
- 60 fps on 90% of games.
- 4k, native or not i don t care. Just crisp so that it displays nicdly on a 75" tv.
- local co cop on most games should be the focus. 4 players split screen, each with 1080p.
- long lasting controller batteries. I m looking at you ds4.
- quite and silent box. Ps4 pro brrr....

Oh and by the way god of war 3 >>>>> god of war ps4 for me.

Prepare to be severely disappointed. 90% of games could have been 60 FPS every gen, but they weren't because pretty graphics are prioritized over game play. The only was this happens if it's a mandate from Sony/MS that games on their platforms must meet an FPS requirement.

 

[onQ123]

65 ALUs does not match binary that silicons uses... it is weird... it could be 128 thought.

There is a reason why it is base of 2... 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, etc.

I'm saying that it could be one different type of ALU connected to the normal 64 ALUs in every CU

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20180121386.pdf

 

[Meh3D]

Has anyone talked about Microsoft's presence at GDC2019? I noticed the amount of floor space they have taken up on the GDC floor plan. Lots of floor space to interact with other developers. I'm definitely curious.

 

[onQ123]

Now there is mention of Ariel Internal GPU that wasn't there last time I looked

Also I don't remember seeing this much info on Arden last time ether

http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1022

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Prepare to be severely disappointed. 90% of games could have been 60 FPS every gen, but they weren't because pretty graphics are prioritized over game play. The only was this happens if it's a mandate from Sony/MS that games on their platforms must meet an FPS requirement.

Programmer: Hey everyone, the team have been able to squeeze as much as we can to get a 60 fps game going. Plays silky smooth

Marketing dept: Uhhh.... and how are we supposed to market frames per second?

Programmer: Who knows. That's your job

Director: Hey guys, you know how there was hair effects. A new thing is out, skidmark effects. Any character showing undies or has super sheer pants can have shit stains in detail. If a gamer zooms in close enough, they can even get to molecular level to see how much of it is carbon, nitrates or hydrogen. Problem is it'll eat up resources.

Programmer: Sounds like a waste of time, but have to admit I'd prefer doing better shit stains than programming better AI or physics. Sounds like we'll dumb down the game to 30 fps. I'll do it

Introducing for Xbox One 5x and PS9, 16k res, best graphics ever with shit stain effects...... (at 30 fps and AI/physics similar to a PS2 game.)

 

[onQ123]

This tweet plus the the info about a internal GPU in Ariel has me thinking Navi 14 & Navi 10 will be part of PS5

 

[Shin]

We don't know which version of Navi it will be as MS/Sony aren't the only ones that custom/semi-custom are made for.
Here's most of the Navi line (missing Navi 20), they were talking about the end of Polaris whatever that means.

 

[onQ123]

I'm starting to think that whatever this APU is it's for a dockable system


Undocked / Base clock 1.6GHz CPU , 1GHz GPU

Docked /Boost clock 3.2GHz CPU , 2GHz GPU or there is a second GPU in the dock

 

[Negotiator]

I'm starting to think that whatever this APU is it's for a dockable system

Undocked / Base clock 1.6GHz CPU , 1GHz GPU

Docked /Boost clock 3.2GHz CPU , 2GHz GPU or there is a second GPU in the dock

1.6 GHz CPU would be a joke baseline for next-gen game development. Not gonna happen.

This dockable/Switch wannabe system theory is reaching Jeff Rigby level of craziness.

 

[onQ123]

1.6 GHz CPU would be a joke baseline for next-gen game development. Not gonna happen.

This dockable/Switch wannabe system theory is reaching Jeff Rigby level of craziness.

The code has this chip with a base clock of 1.6GHz

 

[LordOfChaos]

My standalone thread got no love, so just throwing it in here that AMD patented a method of variable rate shading, a key component of Nvidia's Turning efficiency gains, two years ago. Usually I'd scoff at looking at brand new patents as something that may be in the PS5, but this timeline would more line up with it being introduced in Navi/PS5 as a hardware design cycle.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/65038/amd-patent-teases-variable-rate-shading-navi-gpus/index.html

 

[onQ123]

My standalone thread got no love, so just throwing it in here that AMD patented a method of variable rate shading, a key component of Nvidia's Turning efficiency gains, two years ago. Usually I'd scoff at looking at brand new patents as something that may be in the PS5, but this timeline would more line up with it being introduced in Navi/PS5 as a hardware design cycle.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/65038/amd-patent-teases-variable-rate-shading-navi-gpus/index.html

I might be wrong but I remember something about variable rate shading on Xbox One X


Edit: never mind that was half-res rendering

 

[Redneckerz]

The code has this chip with a base clock of 1.6GHz

Which says nothing about a switch like device. With such statements, you are effectively grasping for invisible straws.

 

[Negotiator]

Which says nothing about a switch like device. With such statements, you are effectively grasping for invisible straws.

Not to mention that the Switch CPU has the exact same frequency (1 GHz) on both portable and docked mode.

It would be a really bad idea to have different clock speeds for the CPU.

I'm pretty sure both Lockhart and Anaconda will have the exact same CPU specs for this reason. And of course GPU scaling from 1080p to 4K-ish.

 

[onQ123]

Which says nothing about a switch like device. With such statements, you are effectively grasping for invisible straws.

I was replying to the 1.6GHz baseline being a joke comment .

 

[Redneckerz]

I was replying to the 1.6GHz baseline being a joke comment .

Replied to this.

 

[onQ123]

If Sony isn't making a hybrid with everything that's at their disposal they're dumb.


Mobile Zen with a base clock of 1.6Ghz & GPU with base clock of 1GHz (If this APU really is the PS5 APU)

The ability to turn off half of the PS4 Pro GPU (Turning off half of a 56 CU GPU clocked at 1GHz would give you a 3.5TF mobile GPU)

Scalable GPUs with fp16 that's usable in mobile & desktops

Storage that's the size of coins NVMe /SD Express /CFexpress

HMDs


Rumors of the VR headset & DS5 having cameras & inside out tracking

 

[onQ123]

Off chip SRAM?

 

[onQ123]

 

[onQ123]

So if the new CUs are made up of 2 normal CUs & a new side CU that makes the 3640 SPs look more and more like a possibility


64 ALU x 2 + 54 side ALU = 182 SPs per CU


182 x 20 = 3640

 

[93xfan]

True but desktops don't have ~250W max TDP for both CPU and GPU.
And consoles don't have so much space for cooling like desktop have, so even if you could clock it higher there would be no way to dissipate heat.

Simple.

Just brag about how the power supply is inside the console and then make the fan sound like a jet engine when the console is on. It worked for Sony, multiple consoles in a row.

I kid of course.

 

[Negotiator]

Simple.

Just brag about how the power supply is inside the console and then make the fan sound like a jet engine when the console is on. It worked for Sony, multiple consoles in a row.

I kid of course.

At least MS did it right, so maybe there's some hope...

 

[Shin]

And consoles don't have so much space for cooling like desktop have, so even if you could clock it higher there would be no way to dissipate heat.

I don't believe this to be true, as someone that replaced 8-10 laptops between 2005 and 2015 form factor isn't that pressing of a matter.
Laptops while flatter/thinner are broader (left to right, front to back) but generally have less ventilation holes/space or about the same as a console.

If a laptop can cool a desktop class GPU/CPU* internally then so can a console, there's no real magic going on there as the price comes from margin, screen, memory, etc etc.
The video below is that of my laptop, vapor chamber, it's utterly shit build quality all-around and once you remove all the nonsense that makes it a laptop there's nothing bank breaking.
My point is that it's not a matter if it can be done, Microsoft paved the way with One X (noise level, heat, form factor), no one wanted to spend the money though...until XO.



We need a juicy bone, even as news poster it's been freakin' slow this past week...

 

[LordOfChaos]

I don't believe this to be true, as someone that replaced 8-10 laptops between 2005 and 2015 form factor isn't that pressing of a matter.
Laptops while flatter/thinner are broader (left to right, front to back) but generally have less ventilation holes/space or about the same as a console.

If a laptop can cool a desktop class GPU/CPU* internally then so can a console, there's no real magic going on there as the price comes from margin, screen, memory, etc etc.
The video below is that of my laptop, vapor chamber, it's utterly shit build quality all-around and once you remove all the nonsense that makes it a laptop there's nothing bank breaking.
My point is that it's not a matter if it can be done, Microsoft paved the way with One X (noise level, heat, form factor), no one wanted to spend the money though...until XO.



We need a juicy bone, even as news poster it's been freakin' slow this past week...

That has a 180W PSU, that's including powering the screen and other non-console components, so even just going by the wall power draw that's not particularly dissipating more TDP than consoles already have.

My pet wish is kind of to have no ODD, though I know part of the market isn't ready. But imagine that, that's probably at least a quarter of the internal volume of the PS4, if that was dedicated to more cooling that could quietly dissipate more heat. Though, I guess UHD blu ray would be a nice-to-have too.

 

[Negotiator]

That has a 180W PSU, that's including powering the screen and other non-console components, so even just going by the wall power draw that's not particularly dissipating more TDP than consoles already have.

My pet wish is kind of to have no ODD, though I know part of the market isn't ready. But imagine that, that's probably at least a quarter of the internal volume of the PS4, if that was dedicated to more cooling that could quietly dissipate more heat. Though, I guess UHD blu ray would be a nice-to-have too.

XB1X has proved that it's possible to have a compact, powerful and silent console.