Chozofication_
Banned
Perhaps each navi cu will be stronger? But yes 1.3 for gcn sounds about right.
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Possible hint at AMD's next-gen APU (codename: Gonzalo) - 8 cores, 3.2GHz clock, Navi 10-based GPU
- Thread starter Dontero
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Von Hugh
Member
How many TFLOPS would 1,3 Ghz make with that spec?
ethomaz
Banned
64 (CU) * 64 (SP per CU) * 2 (instruction per clock cycle) * 1300Mhz (clock) = 10,649,600
~10.65TFs.
Possible if not GCN... nVidia uses 128SPs per CU.
GCN is limited to 64CUs with 64SPs each.
But I believe more in higher clock than different number of SPs per CU... perhaps 25% more clock than what MS reached with X due 7nm.
PS. Clock boost more performance than increase in SPs/CUs because too much SPs/CUs make the architecture inefficient to use all them while higher clock in most cases have proportional increase in performance unless there is some bootleneck.
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Von Hugh
Member
Yeah. That's pretty nice compared to One X.
If people are waiting for something like 12 - 16 TFLOPS out of a new console that is coming in the next 15 - 24 months, you are being juvenile. The specs have been locked for quite a while for now very likely.
That is still a massive jump from especially something like Xbox One.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
That's cool. But what would the tdp of a 10.65 tf gpu would be?
ethomaz
Banned
Way lower than the new Radeon VII... it is 7nm running at lower clocks after all.
Just to be fair we don't have Radeon VII real TDP yet but it is probably lower than Vega 64... clocks speeds define the TDP... when you cross a limit the TDP increase disproportionately.
I believe these APUs will have conservative clocks (below the limit of the arch for 7nm) to have low TPD like PS4/XB1.
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SonGoku
Member
Many of the best looking exclusives on PS3 and 360 ran at 720p
No... but im questioning your wording thats why i asked
4 PS4 GPU sized modules
What does that even mean? Same arch as ps4? same die size, same performance? Thats why i questioned it
If the modules are the best they can be within their size and also sporting the latest arch then yeah its pretty sweet but... I think amd confirmed navi is not going to be a mcm design
I adjusted my expectations accordingly, 12TF is pretty tame and its what i expect minimum. Its also well within console APU size limits at 7nm
Also the biggest jump in that time was the 8800 series, after that Nvidia remained comfortable and stagnant. As bad as it was, Fermi was the first big breakthrough since unified shaders.
Shin
Banned
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Which were those?
And what are the best looking exclusives in your book?
I mean, i know a bit of it, but i just want to test you out
Some context though:
- X360 generally held higher resolutions and higher performance in multiplat titles
- Early PS3 titles generally suffered in performance and even had complete effects missing. The downside of Cell
- Plus side though is that PS3 offered better visuals in exclusives in the end
SonGoku
Member
Uncharted 2 and 3, TLoU, GoW 3 and Ascension, GT5 and GT6, Resistance 3, KZ2 &KZ3Which were those?
And what are the best looking exclusives in your book?
I mean, i know a bit of it, but i just want to test you out
Some context though:
- X360 generally held higher resolutions and higher performance in multiplat titles
- Early PS3 titles generally suffered in performance and even had complete effects missing. The downside of Cell
- Plus side though is that PS3 offered better visuals in exclusives in the end
Gears of War 1,2,3, Forza Horizon 1 and 2 and Forza 2, 3 and 4, Halo Reach
GTA 5
Im just saying, some of the best looking games on both consoles ran at 720p.
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Chozofication_
Banned
Resistance 3 was 576p and halo reach wasn't quite native res, plus had nasty temporal AA. Gran turismo was sub 60fps with tearing and ps2 quality car models and some "premium" models had no cockpit detail.
Pgr4 was the best looking racer for sure
Chozofication_
Banned
Probably not any more power hungry than the og ps4 if not less.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hell, PGR4 wasn't 720p either, it got a rez downgrade when the weather effects were added to that version.
I noticed it right away over PGR3.
Chozofication_
Banned
Nope its 720p 2x msaa my dude.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Really? Is it the AA which made the picture look much softer over 3?
Chozofication_
Banned
List of rendering resolutions
By the way games that ran at sub 720p could look great if they had good AA or not a lot of high frequency detail.
I swear, MW3 on 360 with its 600p res with msaa is easily one of the most impressive games that gen - its not a good version on ps3 tho. Lower alphas, texture pop in and much lower fps.
By the way games that ran at sub 720p could look great if they had good AA or not a lot of high frequency detail.
I swear, MW3 on 360 with its 600p res with msaa is easily one of the most impressive games that gen - its not a good version on ps3 tho. Lower alphas, texture pop in and much lower fps.
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ethomaz
Banned
PGR4 was indeed native 1280x720p but it was only 30fps.
Forza games on 360 was way better in that case... native 1280x720p, better AA, 60fps.
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Chozofication_
Banned
I couldn't tell ya, I haven't played 3 just yet but its on my shelf. Pgr3 is sub hd though, either 600p or 640? Perhaps pgr4's motion blur is what you see, not sure if 3 goes easier on the post effects.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think 3 goes easier on the post effects which might be the culprit.
Either way I liked both games, especially online at the time.
ethomaz
Banned
1024×600, 2xAA, 30fps PGR3.
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Chozofication_
Banned
Pgr4 is 30fps but the input lag is so low it feels very responsive. Compare Killzone 2 at 150ms lag vs kz3 at 116ms lag.
Pgr4 beats everything in terms of what its pushing, very pretty game. *Maybe* forza 4 is more taxing at 60fps but man that came out 4 years later.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Found this:
https://gearnuke.com/playstation-3-and-xbox-360-exclusives-history-resolution-fps/
Edit: I just saw your post about the Beyond3D forum, I forgot all about that one as well.
https://gearnuke.com/playstation-3-and-xbox-360-exclusives-history-resolution-fps/
Edit: I just saw your post about the Beyond3D forum, I forgot all about that one as well.
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Chozofication_
Banned
I reckon its a combo of color grading (maybe) plus camera motion blur in pgr4. Pgr4 definitely added a lot over 3. Super nice night lighting weather and reflections for the time.
I guess I'm playing some pgr3 tonight
llien
Member
How does that hypothetical card perform compared to 2070?
ethomaz
Banned
12TF is around Vega 64.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Alright. Some additional comments:
- Gears of War apparently can drop resolution and increase AA.
- Uncharted 2 had also added 2x AA.
- Uncharted 3 drops native res in 3D mode however.
- Killzone 3 drops resolution in 3D mode.
- Resistance 3 is far from 720p though at 960x704.
- Reach is 1152x720?
- Interesting that the Killzone titles are native.
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llien
Member
Well, that's about the levels of rumored Navi 10 performance, we are good then.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I’ll just leave this spanner here...
https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/01/four-versions-of-amd-navi-appeared-in-macos-update/amp/
https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/01/four-versions-of-amd-navi-appeared-in-macos-update/amp/
SonGoku
Member
Comon now 3D mode doesn't count, it puts an extra strain on GPU, all PS4 & XBONE games would have to drop rez to run in 3D, just like PS4 GAMES drop rez to run in VR
The only games in my list that aren't 720p are resistance 3 and Reach then, not bad.
I know multiplats struggled on PS3 due to its arch but that's beside the point i was debating.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I didn't go through all of them and i was merely pointing it out, i was no refuting your claim.
Shin
Banned
Not particularly new because it's known that AMD has a deal with Apple for semi-custom and the latter don't want to use nVidia cards because of something.
It popped up on my mobile recently, but about semi-custom we knew about that in 2017/2018 that AMD was going to supply APU's to Apple with Zen/Vega.
Navi is only local as there is Navi 10, Navi 20, Navi 9, 12 and 16 is new to me know as in I've never came across those names before in any article regarding Navi.
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SonGoku
Member
I expect around Vega 64 performance with some arch improvements that put it closer to 2070
Alright then, I also forgot Halo 4 which is impressive looking and runs at 720p
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Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Halo 3 actually has a better lighting system though
bitbydeath
Gold Member
The spanner was everyone calculating specs around Navi 10 when one of the other variants may be used for PS5 which specs are unknown.
SonGoku
Member
I think its worth mentioning Gt5 & Gt6 had a 1080pish mode, in 720p it stayed closer to the 60 fps mark. Hell GT6 was even using primitive tessellation!
PS2 models had nothing to do with hw, they were just filler, since premium cars took so much time apparently. You could have races with all premium cars and tracks.
So yeah not bad, 2 games in my list aren't native
Yeah, impressive what they could pull at the time, too bad the IQ dragged down the overall presentation alas sacrifices had to be made.Halo 3 actually has a better lighting system though
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Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Nah mate you had two games wrong, therefore your opinion is invalid. Everyone should ignore you from now on because you clearly have no idea what you are up against.
Amateur.
SonGoku
Member
I don't get why everyone calculates PS5 gpu based on a gpu which is supposed to release a year early,PS5 gpu is going to be custom like PS4s anyways
I must seppuku to save honor
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LSWilson
Member
LSWilson
Member
I dont get that either, how is that gpu supposed to last 6 or 7 years?
Chozofication_
Banned
SonGoku
gt6 is still in the low 50s high 40s in 720p mode. Some of those "premium" cars didn't even have any detail in the cockpit dude. And, a race full of premium cars will run worse than a race full of ps2 leftovers.PD became straight trash after gt4 on ps2. I'd actually argue they were only good on ps1.
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Chozofication_
Banned
With 1080p modes, dynamic resolution and reconstruction methods. Most of those methods are shit but temporal injection is really good. They'll get better next gen.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
1.84TF with a netbook CPU is still going strong and putting out some impressive looking games.
SonGoku
Member
Im just pointing out that's due to time constraints no hw limitations. GT6 its a incredible tech achievement even if it doesn't hit 60, there is so much going in that game
PD became straight trash after gt4 on ps2. I'd actually argue they were only good on ps1.
It could easily pass for a 30fps racer with how good it looks and how much stuff is doing
I suggest you head over to https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-gran-turismo-6 to see how much GT6 its doing
I kinda wish they made GT6 locked at 30fps.
That would be great but they might not do it to avoid PR disaster, i can already see the clickbait:
PS5 runs games at lower rez than PS4 Pro
By the time PS5 releases 12tf will be comparable to PS4's 1.8tf when it released, aka midrange.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Indeed.
LordOfChaos
Member
It's kind of interesting that the PS5 and updated Macbook Pros are likely to have such a similar GPU, granted with different bandwidth setups/unified memory and thermal characteristics (not to mention the the price, especially in any foreign exchange). When the PS4 launched in late 2013, the MBPs were not in the same neighborhood. It would take years and years of updates until the 560/560X were closeish to the PS4, and then still missing ROPs and bandwidth compared to it.
Now, it seems they could both launch in the same vicinity with a Navi 10 based GPU, and even a larger, though undoubtedly lower clocked, version in the MBP, in the Navi 16.
Doesn't really matter, just idle musings.
By the way that driver string has been there since the Vega update, so it's not new, but people are rediscovering it which is fine ahead of the update in some months.
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I mean that it could be 4x 18CU modules or 2x 36CU modules used to make up a 72CU GPU because 64CU is said to be the limit of GCN GPUs .
I'm thinking this will either happen by 3D stacking or MCM unless Navi isn't GCN & they found another way around the 64CU limit.
There is also a chance that they will make a move like Nvidia & add a new type of processor on the GPU as a way around the limits
LordOfChaos
Member
Navi for gaming will be a monolithic die, from an AMD interview. The PS5 could always do something different than the standard parts, but it casts doubt on the idea for me if it's going to be based on Navi 10. They say Infinity Fabric will at first be for the data center/GPU compute and CPUs, where it's harder to split the load on graphics.
“We’re going down that path on the CPU side, and I think on the GPU we’re always looking at new ideas. But the GPU has unique constraints with this type of NUMA [non-uniform memory access] architecture, and how you combine features… The multithreaded CPU is a bit easier to scale the workload. The NUMA is part of the OS support so it’s much easier to handle this multi-die thing relative to the graphics type of workload.”
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-navi-monolithic-gpu-design
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SonGoku
Member
As
LordOfChaos
pointed: off the shelf Navi won't feature mcm design, hopefully Navi its post GCN and broke the shell surpassing its limitsI wasn't aware Nvidia hit a core limit, or is this speculation
Shin
Banned
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-next-gen-graphics-card-architecture-arcturus?amp
Hopefully this isn't a gamingbolt like site as they keep popping up on this page.
Hopefully this isn't a gamingbolt like site as they keep popping up on this page.
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Chozofication_
Banned
SonGoku
at best gt6 looks about as good as forza 4, with all fully modeled cars on the track. Then forza runs at locked 60fps. But actually I think environment detail is more inconsistent as well and the cars can sound like lawnmowers. That's it though I'm done shitting on gt now lol.Not true even need for speed shift on 360 is clearly more detailed than gt6 at its best or forza 4 and its 30fps.
I think Sony needs a new racing developer that can actually finish games...
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