I think she would destroy Hilary in a debate. She is just too damn cold hearted and Hilary has too many L's on the record.
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Post-CNN GOP debate poll: Fiorina surges to 2nd place, Furby falls 8% points
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I think she would destroy Hilary in a debate. She is just too damn cold hearted and Hilary has too many L's on the record.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I don't think so. Carly Fiorina's career is an L on the record. I suspect that next month's GOP debate focused on the economy will do her no favors.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Well, that and railing against the 'Dead Babies' section of eBay.
Veritigo_X
Member
Are you aware of Fiorina's record?
BrokenIcarus
Member
freeofgreed
Member
Wha wha What? Hilary is an excellent debater. Carly would get merked, especially with her past failure.
People need to stop letting the Republican debates skew their perspective. This shit that Trump and Florina say won't fly in a general debate. And someone like Fiorina will have herself embarrassed off stage when she is exposed consistently as being a failure.
Clinton will run circles around her on policy and has a much stronger record.
Seriously? No, she wouldn't. Her debates with Obama should put that notion to rest; Carly would be massacred.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Where did this idea that Clinton is a bad debater originate?
Trump attacked her record much more harshly and bluntly than anyone who could actually become President would and she defended it fine. Meanwhile, Hilary had an absolutely mediocre term as Sec of State and a bunch of crazy shady "scandals" she could've avoided while serving in the highest cabinet position.
I think poor performance in a time where the tech market was stalling is far more defendable then what Hilary has to guard against. And Fiona is far nastier.
WTF? I never said she was a bad debater. I thought Obama was a decent debater as well but he got his ass handed to him in that first debate against Romney because Romney was far more agressive. I can see similar things happening to Clinton. *Shrugs*
As far as I can tell, people here are dramatizing how bad her record as a CEO was. It certainly wasn't good, but H-P ultimately recovered using a strategy not all that different from the one she pursued. It's overstating things to say she "ran H-P into the ground." And as mediocre as she was, I don't think it would be difficult to spin her time as CEO as being an overall plus on the experience/credibility/qualifications side of things.
What makes me laugh is how she questions Hillary's accomplishments, while at the same time bragging about boosting H-P's top-line growth. Through her eyes, all the progress Hillary has helped facilitate doesn't count, because reasons; increasing revenue is this incredible feat, though, even though it resulted from a controversial merger and profit margins went down. I'm still waiting to see someone make that point in sound bite fashion. All the articles I saw trying to defend Hillary in response to her "ask what Hillary has accomplished" claim were depressing. People should have focused on contextualizing things in a way that showed why Fiorina's claim wasn't credible in the first place.
I think you may be forgetting how Fiorina got mauled by Barbara Boxer in 2010.
The only one attacking Fiorina's business record was Trump, and while he did an OK job and is probably the best one to make the attack, he still did it half heartedly, let her get her talking points in, and was embarrassed by her earlier in the debate.
Fiorina doesn't worry me.
I think Rubio presents a pretty clear contrast between the Democrats and the Republicans. He's youthful and he will rail on that. And he's also got all that feel good stuff about his grandparents he won't STFU about.
I don't think he'll make it out of the primary. Illegal immigration is too important this cycle because of The Donald.
Jeb will be the nominee.
I don't feel HP has ever really recovered. The company sputtered from strategy to strategy and CEO to CEO (and scandal to scandal) over the last 10 years and is about to split into two to slough off its low margin (and legacy) business, which so happens to be the one Fiorina made the priority of the company through her acquisition of Compaq.
Times have certainly changed, but the move never made sense. Who buys low margin growth? I don't get it.
The only one attacking Fiorina's business record was Trump, and while he did an OK job and is probably the best one to make the attack, he still did it half heartedly, let her get her talking points in, and was embarrassed by her earlier in the debate.
Fiorina doesn't worry me.
I think Rubio presents a pretty clear contrast between the Democrats and the Republicans. He's youthful and he will rail on that. And he's also got all that feel good stuff about his grandparents he won't STFU about.
I don't think he'll make it out of the primary. Illegal immigration is too important this cycle because of The Donald.
Jeb will be the nominee.
I don't feel HP has ever really recovered. The company sputtered from strategy to strategy and CEO to CEO (and scandal to scandal) over the last 10 years and is about to split into two to slough off its low margin (and legacy) business, which so happens to be the one Fiorina made the priority of the company through her acquisition of Compaq.
Times have certainly changed, but the move never made sense. Who buys low margin growth? I don't get it.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, he has to stop that climate change pandering.
One nut replaces another nut.
Your Entertainer
Member
Her tenure at HP is her only real "claim to fame", which is laughable since she was pretty much universally considered to have done extremely poorly. And it's not really defensible at this point. She still shows up on "Worst CEO" lists as far as I know. 30000 lost their jobs, stock price fell by 50%; meanwhile she tripled her own salary and left with a $42 million severance package. (CEO-gaf can correct me if I'm wrong on the above).
She will get slaughtered on the debate stage - she literally said nothing of substance during the last GOP debate and has no real qualifications or accomplishments to speak of.
EDIT: I think the biggest danger to Dems in the general is Rubio, easily. Hopefully the GOP won't be smart enough to elect him. He is seeming to climb after the last debate, which is a little worrying.
And the worst decision was to double-down on computer hardware while other hardware/server companies were transitioning to services and software.
No he didn't and debates aren't the be all, end all. Before any debate even begins the ads discrediting her would be widespread from the deep pockets of the Hillary campaign. Narrator speaking over unflattering pictures of Fiorina: "30,000 employees fired while she raised her own salary all the while running her company into the ground with staggering losses. Is this who we want steering our economy?"
The narrative of her failure is easy to frame too. And those trying to defend her will struggle. Its not like HP is exactly soaring right now. So she doesnt even have the benefit of trying to claim credit for success after her tenure.
No one gives a fuck about Benghazi and the email scandal is a non-starter that will be forgotten in 6 months. Fiorina's crazy statements she keeps double downing on won't be and she will be raked over the coals by the far superior policy debater in Clinton.
EatinOlives
Member
Warhawking was probably the only thing that could get Republicans to forget about her shitty record as CEO, given how war-happy they tend to be.
Red Blaster
Member
trump is your everyday slimeball but fiorina is one of the most detestable human beings on the planet
gg gop
gg gop
post gave me whiplash
Lol, Walker. He crashed hard. Poor guy must think he's disappointed Reagan's ghost so bad.
At this point, I think Rubio is most likely. Anyone who was supporting Walker or Bush will probably pivot to him. He'll need to go hard against Fiorina, since her supporters are the most winnable to him, way more so than Trump's embittered white dudes or Carson's religious base. I doubt those two can be fully knocked out until the end. Fiorina should be a soft target though if he shows up to the next debate having actually done his homework on her business record and prepared to make a coherent case against it. Once that's done, Rubio's current support plus Fiorina's and Bush's, and probably Christie's and Kasich's too, is enough for him to eventually win, though Trump and Carson won't make it pretty.
That's probably the best result they could have gotten, since he's in the best position against Clinton. Jeb sort of neutralized all the best attacks against Clinton that she's an old, rich political insider with a famous last name whereas Rubio is young and relatively poor for a politician, and has the whole immigrant story too.
At this point, I think Rubio is most likely. Anyone who was supporting Walker or Bush will probably pivot to him. He'll need to go hard against Fiorina, since her supporters are the most winnable to him, way more so than Trump's embittered white dudes or Carson's religious base. I doubt those two can be fully knocked out until the end. Fiorina should be a soft target though if he shows up to the next debate having actually done his homework on her business record and prepared to make a coherent case against it. Once that's done, Rubio's current support plus Fiorina's and Bush's, and probably Christie's and Kasich's too, is enough for him to eventually win, though Trump and Carson won't make it pretty.
That's probably the best result they could have gotten, since he's in the best position against Clinton. Jeb sort of neutralized all the best attacks against Clinton that she's an old, rich political insider with a famous last name whereas Rubio is young and relatively poor for a politician, and has the whole immigrant story too.
freeofgreed
Member
That's besides the point. Most of her talking points are things that wouldn't hold up to any real scrutiny in a real debate. The shit that people like her and Carson say during a primary that makes them popular would have the opposite effect during the general debates.
EatinOlives
Member
Trump is trying to incite a race war every other day, depending on whether or not it gets him more supporters.
Not to defend Fiorina, but Trump's sliminess is far from "everyday".
EatinOlives
Member
I didn't either, but I overestimated both the intelligence of the GOP primary voter base as well as the roster of candidates. The party is such a clusterfuck that it allowed someone like Trump to stay on top for this long.
But needless to say, that's the GOP's problem. Him being on top among Republicans doesn't mean anything once he starts talking to swing voters.
Things aren't looking great for Walker, but all it would take is a single stand out moment to bring his campaign back to life. He seemed so strong when he entered the race, and the things that made him a strong candidate still hold true. If he can outlast some of the current conservative favorites, I can see him standing out as the best conservative alternative to Jeb.
Very much a long shot at this point, but I think it's too soon to declare him dead.
BoboBrazil
Member
Yep, they were pushing her so hard from the second it was over. She wasnt even supposed to be in the debate either, but forced herself into it. I didn't see other networks pushing her like that, so I'll wait for other pills that aren't CNN based.
What made him a strong candidate? His terrible economic and jobs record? His hatred of the working class, women, education, and immigrants? His illegal fundraising?
He seemed so strong because most people still had no idea who he really was. They just kept hearing of Walker as this great conservative icon. It's not a coincidence at all that he started cratering after the first debate. The national audience at large got their first true view of him and they utterly repudiated him.
I'm not ready to bury Jeb yet. I feel like a Jeb/Rubio or Jeb/Kasich ticket will be the end result of all this despite the base's hatred for immigrants and the establishment. If Bush gets the nom he would be smart to take one of those with him and not do like McCain did and bring on a lightweight outsider to pander to the base. I know it looks bad for him now but I just can't shake the feeling once the circus tents go down and people sober up he'll come out on top. Which will lead to the GOP losing again and the base screaming for a "true Conservative" next go round. Rinse repeat.
djplaeskool
Member
You forgot the brutal GOP post-election autopsy before they go back to the same ol' same ol'.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I mean its nearly impossible for them to draw a winning map that doesn't include Florida so you might as well try to lock it down.
benjipwns
Banned
I suppose if the GOP is winning the Presidency there's a good chance they're holding the Senate too. Could be worth the risk I guess. It might be a good sign for the Florida seat as well, which the D's need to pick off.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
I've listened to many of Bush's interviews as of late and whilst I disagree with him on many issues, he seems like a grounded, reasonable and even pleasant. His admiration of Obama in particular seem incredibly outrageous considering the defacto status of the GOP to demonise anyone associated with the President.
My biggest issue with him, however, is that he has surrounded himself with advisors from his brother's era. Were he the nominee, this would become baggage.
My biggest issue with him, however, is that he has surrounded himself with advisors from his brother's era. Were he the nominee, this would become baggage.
Jeb is just riding out his name atm while shouting platitudes and cliches to ride out the clown car round of the primaries so as not to get Romney'd in the general. I think once the field narrows a bit he'll take the gloves out and start throwing more haymakers. Personally I see the final nom coming down between him and Rubio, with Jeb probably pulling out just through dealing Rubio death by a thousand cuts with his massive warchest once the general primaries kick in nationwide.
As another poster said, Jeb/Rubio is a no go because they're both from Florida. I'm betting on it being Jeb/Kasich, with an outside shot of Rubio maybe pulling the rug out from under bush.
As another poster said, Jeb/Rubio is a no go because they're both from Florida. I'm betting on it being Jeb/Kasich, with an outside shot of Rubio maybe pulling the rug out from under bush.
Not if it's Jeb!, as Florida's electoral votes wouldn't count.
Listen to GWB's rhetoric form 2000. He spent so much time about building consensus and working across party lines it was insane. As soon as he was elected that all went out the window.
You want to know what a politicn is like? Ignore everything they say and focus just on what they do. JEB's record in FL is scary as fuck.
No way it's Kasich. Jeb has to pick somebody to make sure the Tea Partiers come vote him.
benjipwns
Banned
The EVs wouldn't count for Vice President.
If there was no EV majority without Florida, the Senate elects the VP, and if it's GOP controlled, Rubio could still be elected Vice President.
Then I could see Cruz in the role. In my fantasy world Trump goes third party and runs with Palin screwing the GOP over royally.
rokkerkory
Member
this is all just a summer fling... election is a longggggs way off
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