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[zeemumu]

Wait, I know what to do

 

[Chococat]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

This is ridiculous. Which race has dominated through time has changed over the course of humanity. The oppression of women of all races has existed since the beginning of time.

If you don't believe women issues are central to humanity then you don't care about women of your race, you only care about the power of race as it pertains to men.

 

[Irminsul]

This is obviously debatable, but I am on the other end of this spectrum here. It's about making the biggest change for the most endangered people who have no voice. I'd lie my ass off in front of the nation if it meant we could make a substantial impact on income inequality, racial inequality, climate change, etc. My principles are not more important than people's lives.

The way I framed that sentence wasn't that good as I see now, I'm actually with you. I just feel that's not the case for a lot of people in here. They might not know it, but they act that way.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Common sense dictates that you don't gain allies by attacking them, but lately everyone has to one up each other with purity tests.

A "purity test" is strict adherence to a specific ideological bent across as wide of a range of issues as possible. This is a different kind of fuckery.

 

[Trey]

If minority groups (especially black women) say "we did our part, what the fuck was your problem?" who are we to catch feelings or get mad? They all saw this guy for what he is.

In short a lot of white people need to be asking what happened here. Yes I think it's safe to say that very few of the 53% of white men who voted for Trump were at that rally, for instance. But I also think it's safe to say a lot of white men and women at that rally didn't vote at all in November. And to those people you gotta ask...well, what the fuck was your problem.

basically what that sign and those tweets (and even that photo) are trying to get across.

 

[LionPride]

but...divisive...you NEED us. Be nice. Never criticize. Also pat us on the back when we march with you. /s

I swear if that /s wasn't there I would take you seriously

Common sense dictates that you don't gain allies by attacking them, but lately everyone has to one up each other with purity tests.

Are you a current ally if you willingly voted for Trump? Survey Says!

Spoiler

No

Can you become one if you come to your senses as a grown ass adult? Survey Says!

Spoiler

Yes

 

[akira28]

the real hypocrites were us all along.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

This is ridiculous. Which race has dominated through time has changed over the course of humanity. The oppression of women of all races has existed since the beginning of time.

If you don't believe women issues are central to humanity then you don't care about women of your race, you only care about the power of race as it pertains to men.

Agreed. He's throwing black women under the bus too, and not even realizing (or perhaps realizing it, dude sure seems misogynistic after all).

Unless you are black, then you can never understand the full extent of being black in a racist white-controlled society.

*snip for brevity*

While this is true, I don't see why you are telling StoOgE that, as if he didn't already know that. Honestly I don't know why you are lashing out at him.

 

[Violet_0]

oh, it's the liberal Battle Royale

 

[celljean89]

You can't seriously believe that you have no power against white people, that they're some form of demi-gods to you. You CAN'T be serious. Please, just nod.

White People got white privilege, white people got benefit of doubt, white people can walk/drive/fly anywhere in US without feeling powerless, white people can't talk back to cops, white people could vote for a racist and say they're not racist, white people carry guns to protest without be suspect, white people won't get demonize in the media, and white people will be defended even if they're a Nazi.

 

[Maztorre]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Underpaid women don't give a fuck about your opinion. I already explained that there is no hierarchy of priorities for social justice, you either stand alongside those demanding equality or you're an obstruction. Picking and choosing who gets justice and who remains disenfranchised until a more convenient time is the height of privilege.

 

[Dead Man]

you should be super offended and vote trump in in spite.

but...divisive...you NEED us. Be nice. Never criticize. Also pat us on the back when we march with you. /s

I swear if that /s wasn't there I would take you seriously

Are you a current ally if you willingly voted for Trump? Survey Says!

Spoiler

No

Can you become one if you come to your senses as a grown ass adult? Survey Says!

Spoiler

Yes

Can you turn allies away by being condescending to them? Or do they just fall into the 'were never real allies anyway' camp? Can allies criticise the way you are protesting without becoming your enemy?

Edit: And can a Clinton voter show up without being asked to justify the actions of people they have no connection to?

 

[D i Z]

Common sense dictates that you don't gain allies by attacking them, but lately everyone has to one up each other with purity tests.

Common sense dictates that your "allies" need to be on the same page and actually doing the work. Being held accountable isn't a test. It's about someone you should trust knocking on the door with the newest information.

 

[Crocodile]

On one hand I understand this perspective and do feel some rather weak and divisive arguments are being made (that many seem afraid to challenge). But on the other hand...a racist, sexist fascist just got elected president because a large enough majority of white voters voted for him, in juxtaposition to the overwhelming majority of every minority group voting against him. If minority groups (especially black women) say "we did our part, what the fuck was your problem?" who are we to catch feelings or get mad? They all saw this guy for what he is.

In short a lot of white people need to be asking what happened here. Yes I think it's safe to say that very few of the 53% of white men who voted for Trump were at that rally, for instance. But I also think it's safe to say a lot of white men and women at that rally didn't vote at all in November. And to those people you gotta ask...well, what the fuck was your problem.

I'm not going to question how many of the people who were at these rallies did or didn't vote but the above its really the only thing anyone should be taking away from this discussion. This right here is what is being expressed, however clumsily, by all those tweets and signs and whatever.

 

[Maintenance]

oh, it's the liberal Battle Royale

Spoiler alert: everybody dies.

 

[Spectone]

Something about that sign reminds me of blasting innocent Muslims for the actions of terrorists.

 

[Sunster]

Can you turn allies away by being condescending to them? Or do they just fall into the 'were never real allies anyway' camp? Can allies criticise the way you are protesting without becoming your enemy?

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

 

[Plum]

Snip

but...divisive...you NEED us. Be nice. Never criticize. Also pat us on the back when we march with you. /s

I don't understand... what are white people supposed to do? Yeah... listen... but after that? I've asked it before in this very thread with no answer, what practical, vote-gaining, government-changing things can white people do that will solve the issues PoC face? When does "listening" change to "having listened"? Can white people not march in unity with PoC until that point? Is that point even possible?

Vague stipulations about listening won't get the Republicans, the racists in the police, the overwhelming white majority in media, out of power.

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

If its a war... why start a civil one when the Axis are right at your doorstep?

 

[LionPride]

Can you turn allies away by being condescending to them? Or do they just fall into the 'were never real allies anyway' camp? Can allies criticise the way you are protesting without becoming your enemy?

Condescending in which way? People can criticize the way people protest all they want, and I can tell them why they are wrong and let them be on they merry little way

 

[Platy]

There is no "race is more important" than gender and vice versa.

You know the shitty stuff women get ?
You know what kind of cis women get it more ?
It is NOT white woman =P

There are lots of people who are both black and woman and racism and sexism mixes together as a power tool of oppression.

 

[LionPride]

I don't understand... what are white people supposed to do? Yeah... listen... but after that? I've asked it before in this very thread with no answer, what practical, vote-gaining, government-changing things can white people do that will solve the issues PoC face? When does "listening" change to "having listened"? Can white people not march in unity with PoC until that point? Is that point even possible?

Vague stipulations about listening won't get the Republicans, the racists in the police, the overwhelming white majority in media, out of power.

I've answered this question in this thread. People have answered this question, just because they didn't quote you, doesn't mean it ain't been answered

 

[Dead Man]

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

Of course they need to be able to face criticism, and so do POC when they get it wrong about calling out their allies. The criticism in both cases needs to be that of individuals though, not entire groups based just on skin color.

Condescending in which way? People can criticize the way people protest all they want, and I can tell them why they are wrong and let them be on they merry little way

You don't see the condescension in your post?

 

[Plum]

I've answered this question in this thread. People have answered this question, just because they didn't quote you, doesn't mean it ain't been answered

Could you point me to it? Because, to me, the whole "white women should get other white women to their side" is the equivalent of collective racial responsibility and is therefore not a good argument whatsoever.

 

[fart town usa]

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

That mentality led to Trump being elected, lol.

 

[Sunster]

I don't understand... what are white people supposed to do? Yeah... listen... but after that? I've asked it before in this very thread with no answer, what practical, vote-gaining, government-changing things can white people do that will solve the issues PoC face? When does "listening" change to "having listened"? Can white people not march in unity with PoC until that point? Is that point even possible?

Vague stipulations about listening won't get the Republicans, the racists in the police, the overwhelming white majority in media, out of power.



If its a war... why start a civil one when the Axis are right at your doorstep?

yes they should march and not be turned off to marching when 1 woman holding a sign and 1 tweet offends them.

That mentality led to Trump being elected, lol.

sure it did

 

[krazen]

Not sure what the issue is; fact is some of the "allies" are only allies because of fears of what this president might do to affect them personally not because of any intersectional progressive movement. I doubt those women in the OP went there to go personally tell thousands of white women to go fuck themselves, but its an elephant in the room that needs to get discussed. The "We are allies, so we get a pass" will go away quick when a more pro-woman's rights but xenophobic politician gets power (France's Le Pen recent rebranding instance).

Asking people to confront why they are really there is a good thing imho.

 

[Irminsul]

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

Oh but they are needed. You don't need the right people, you need the right amount. Funny that this is a thing you actually have to state after the last election.

Unless you'd rather perish with style than win, of course.

 

[voodoojohn]

This is ridiculous. Which race has dominated through time has changed over the course of humanity. The oppression of women of all races has existed since the beginning of time.

If you don't believe women issues are central to humanity then you don't care about women of your race, you only care about the power of race as it pertains to men.

The power of race as it pertains to men has a direct and massive impact on the day to day lives of the women of that race. The women's march and it's associated activities delude female minorities into believing they can get power by latching onto white women. That white women are more their friends than their own fathers and husbands and brothers. That's a damn lie. To achieve anything, they need to support their own men first and foremost. And they will.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

White allies need to be ready to face criticism sometimes. Warranted and sometimes unwarranted. It's a war and bullets are flying everywhere. If they cannot handle that then they are not needed.

While I agree that whites need to stop being so fragile sometimes, I'm also pretty sure we all need the help we can get....

The power of race as it pertains to men has a direct and massive impact on the day to day lives of the women of that race. The women's march and it's associated activities delude female minorities into believing they can get power by latching onto white women. They need to support their own men first and foremost. And they will.

Fucking wow

 

[Plum]

yes they should march and not be turned off to marching when 1 woman holding a sign and 1 tweet offends them.

When marching isn't enough for them to not be grouped in with Trump supporters why wouldn't they be put off? Why willingly march with those who see you as the enemy?

Also, seeing as it's only 1 woman and 1 tweet then everyone here must disagree wholly with the idea then, including you of course, but I doubt that's the case.

 

[Sunster]

Oh but they are needed. You don't need the right people, you need the right amount. Funny that this is a thing you actually have to state after the last election.

Unless you'd rather perish with style than win, of course.

which brings us back to, if white people face even the smallest criticism they go and vote trump?

When marching isn't enough for them to not be grouped in with Trump supporters why wouldn't they be put off? Why willingly march with those who see you as the enemy?

Also, seeing as it's only 1 woman and 1 tweet then everyone here must disagree wholly with the idea then, including you of course, but I doubt that's the case.

you act as if that 1 woman is the voice of black america telling white people to fuck off.

 

[LionPride]

Of course they need to be able to face criticism, and so do POC when they get it wrong about calling out their allies. The criticism in both cases needs to be that of individuals though, not entire groups based just on skin color.



You don't see the condescension in your post?

Point it out yung

Could you point me to it? Because, to me, the whole "white women should get other white women to their side" is the equivalent of collective racial responsibility and is therefore not a good argument whatsoever.

You wanna know what white allies could do? Not get offended by one picture. Understand that sometimes you are not wanted. Protest if you see fit. Accept criticism. Don't be hurt if someone says "Nope, we don't want you"

yes they should march and not be turned off to marching when 1 woman holding a sign and 1 tweet offends them.

sure it did

Yep

Not sure what the issue is; fact is some of the "allies" are only allies because of fears of what this president might do to affect them personally not because of any intersectional progressive movement. I doubt those women in the OP went there to go personally tell thousands of white women to go fuck themselves, but its an elephant in the room that needs to get discussed. The "We are allies, so we get a pass" will go away quick when a more pro-woman's rights but xenophobic politician gets power (France's Le Pen recent rebranding instance).

Asking people to confront why they are really there is a good thing imho.

Good post

 

[LionPride]

which brings us back to, if white people face even the smallest criticism they go and vote trump?

"If you say anything bad to us, we will vote for this man who is terrible but at least he didn't call us fragile!"

 

[TestOfTide]

The article HEAVILY missed the point.

It's not that white women largely voted for Trump, but that white uneducated people largely voted for Trump regardless of gender.

Hillary was the first democrat to ever win in the category of college-educated white women. That's HUGE and means that Democrats could potentially win big with the Obama Coalition + College Educated Whites.

 

[voodoojohn]

While I agree that whites need to stop being so fragile sometimes, I'm also pretty sure we all need the help we can get....


Fucking wow

Black men are not the black woman's enemy, no matter what the media would have you believe.

 

[Deepwater]

I think the key takeaway that people should need to reflect on in regards to white female privilege is the police response to the march across the country.

Protestors weren't gassed, they weren't violently arrested, they weren't met with riot gear. There were some reports of (white) women hi fiving policeman lol. How is that supposed to make a black woman feel when they march besides you?

That's privilege. You have to unpack that if you want to be about social justice. Don't get caught up on totem poles or whatever silly rhetoric yall using. This is reality. You have to understand how your other identities play into each other.

 

[Dead Man]

Point it out yung

You don't see how doing the question/answer routine is condescending? Okay. Have a good one.

 

[TurnipFritters]

which brings us back to, if white people face even the smallest criticism they go and vote trump?

IMO I think it'd be more likely they'd just disengage from political activism entirely and maybe, at best, just show up to vote for President and nothing else. Which would be super dumb of them but w/e.

 

[Plum]

You wanna know what white allies could do? Not get offended by one picture. Understand that sometimes you are not wanted. Protest if you see fit. Accept criticism. Don't be hurt if someone says "Nope, we don't want you"

So "don't be offended when you're implied to be something you aren't"?

Because that's all people are taking offense with here.

And again, seeing as many here agree with the image's message it's not really just one picture at all, it in fact seems to be an attitude shared by many. Do you disagree with the image's message?

 

[plagiarize]

That's good for you, but you can't honestly think that's the typical reaction of the average person, right? If so, you really should take courses in psychology.

And why would you care about the typical reaction? Because you fucking need those votes, that's why.

I am going to bet you right now, that we don't need those votes.

Because if you're a white person who voted Clinton, who is going to vote for Trump's re-election in 2020 or at the very least stay home or vote third party... because a black person asked you to take a look at yourself in the mirror, or questioned if you were partially culpable for President Trump... Well I don't think you'd be remotely typical or average. I think you'd be incredibly *incredibly* rare.

Trump won, imho, because he promised factory and coal mining jobs to the white working class, who didn't care about all the horrible shit he was going to do to minorities and immigrants and women.

If he fails to deliver on those, as I genuinely believe he will, he will lose. Whether the people who refused to vote for Clinton because she was mean to Bernie come back. Whether some white people who marched against Trump on Saturday end up voting for him out of self interest or not.

 

[theignoramus]

That's a single type of racism.
The idea that minorities can't be racist is only damaging race relations more.

Minorities who practise racism against Whites get fined, jailed or penalised in some way by the dominant society. There is no system or institution in place that allows minorities to get away with systematically harming White people and there never has been.

 

[Irminsul]

which brings us back to, if white people face even the smallest criticism they go and vote trump?

No, but maybe if their legitimate issues get thrown out because they have the wrong skin colour, they do.

And if all white people who voted Trump are also all racist... Well, then there's not much "the rest" of the white people can do, actually.

 

[blu]

Dunno about OP's intents, but this thread has confirmed my opinion of the huge racial issues American society has. Thank you, US PoliGAF. Stay strong, know your friends and your enemies. Particularly, don't mix the two.

 

[BlackJace]

Agreed. He's throwing black women under the bus too, and not even realizing (or perhaps realizing it, dude sure seems misogynistic after all).


While this is true, I don't see why you are telling StoOgE that, as if he didn't already know that. Honestly I don't know why you are lashing out at him.

FyreWulf didn't put StoOgE's name in his post did they? If anything, it's StoOgE that's lashing out at him. If "he already knows that", why did he feel the need to show GAF his receipts on what a good ally he is?

The problem is that the photo in question was supposed to rile people up. Yes, but the proper response would've been to face inwards and begin answering the question of why a majority of white women voted for Trump.

The response here amounts to a bunch of people feeling attacked and then proceeding to putting fingers in their ears. Come on now.

 

[Knightmarre]

That pic and tweet from the OP is garbage dont blame individuals for what others have done.

 

[fart town usa]

Dunno about OP's intents, but this thread has confirmed my opinion of the huge racial issues American society has. Thank you, US PoliGAF. Stay strong, know your friends and your enemies. Particularly, don't mix the two.

Lol. Pretty much.

 

[Hex]

Where is the sign for Self hating black people and latinos who voted for Trump?
Seriously, this is why progress will never be made,

 

[Crocodile]

I don't understand... what are white people supposed to do? Yeah... listen... but after that? I've asked it before in this very thread with no answer, what practical, vote-gaining, government-changing things can white people do that will solve the issues PoC face? When does "listening" change to "having listened"? Can white people not march in unity with PoC until that point? Is that point even possible?

Vague stipulations about listening won't get the Republicans, the racists in the police, the overwhelming white majority in media, out of power.

If its a war... why start a civil one when the Axis are right at your doorstep?

Small starting points:

-When a factually truthful statement akin to "most White Women voted for Trump" is said, don't get mad if you know in your heart that doesn't apply to you or your friends/family

-If a few (and its always a very small number) people making criticisms along that axis go a bit too far (and you can't actually talk to them), laugh them off or shrug them off instead of getting mad, defensive or proclaiming "this is why Trump won".

The rest of the standard volunteering, voting, protesting, talking to white peers that PoC can't reach, etc. and of course standard empathy should help

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

No, but maybe if their legitimate issues get thrown out because they have the wrong skin colour, they do.

And if all white people who voted Trump are also all racist... Well, then there's not much "the rest" of the white people can do, actually.

What issues do white people face that the rest of us don't?

 

[QisTopTier]

"If you say anything bad to us, we will vote for this man who is terrible but at least he didn't call us fragile!"

The people that say shit like that are typically going to vote that way in the first place and you give them an excuse to do so they feel better about themselves. On the flip side the overly agressive hate that snaps at hands that offer help in even the most minor ways make people just say fuck it.