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[Igo]

Narcissistic fools.

 

[FUME5]

Make enemies of your allies huh?

Brilliant maneuver.

 

[Aizen.S.Kennedy]

reaction:



blame the targeted community for putting in the oppressor rather than the ones that put him in and are not targeted by his policies



disown the negative while embracing the benefits of being white



it's so hard, I didn't get the instant results I'm used to being able to get due to my white privilege



gonna need blood and sweat and skin in the game in addition to dollars. as soon as you went home from the march, you were no longer actively engaged. POC are engaged 24/7. Whether they like it or not.



Because a lot of earlier feminists specifically excluded POC from the movement. They often promoted bans on interracial marriage and wanted suffrage only for white women. That didn't just disappear overnight.

and therefore we come back to the white fragility:



white people: collectively benefitting each other but absolutely hate being identified for being a collective that needs to work more to talk to other white people instead of pushing black people out in front of them and going "don't worry i'll spot you 10$"


"being lumped in" is what POC have to deal with from the white population CONSTANTLY. Having your identity removed is part and parcel of being non-white in this country and feeling like you've been betrayed or hurt by simply being addressed as part of the group you are is one of the literal examples of white fragility.

Goddamn spit that fire.
They don't hear you tho

 

[boiled goose]

The democratic party needs to do it's part and start representing the people again.

Also this post like many Others blames the targets for not doing enough. Millenials should have turned out more! They already voted disproportionately Democrat. So did minorities.

Why not blame the privileged white people that vote Republican? That voted Trump? Old voters?

 

[D i Z]

How does attacking the women who are actively opposing Donald Trump address your grievances with the women who voted for him? Explain that one to me.

If someone tells you that you are part of what you are fighting against, and defeating yourself, would you not stop to understand whatever they are telling you about your behavior and methods? Would you not want someone to give you perspective that you might not have because you couldn't? Or is it all some weekend warrior type shit when it comes down to it?

 

[Adam_Vania]

it was one sign and a few tweets amidst millions of participants.

yes. people are not going to agree 100%. but we can agree on things that truly matter.

 

[celljean89]

Are these serious post? Would you have preferred he said racial hatred instead of racism? Like I really don't see how that's eye rolling or a "how" question?

If a white dude hates a black dude because his skin color that's racist

If a black dude hate a asian dude because he's asian that's racist

If an asian dude hates someone who is hispanic they are hispanic that's racist

and if a black dude hates a white dude because he is white thats racist.

It's not rocket science

Prejudice + Power = Racism

You could argue that POC can't be part of systemic racism, which is a true statement. But I'm not going say they can be as racist or racist. I'm not here to play softball in this bubble. So no POC can't be racist, they don't have the power to be. If I was killed by a cop or a random white dude, will there be justice for me? Or just a march? Maybe hashtag? Yeah that's it...

If I called a white person a cracker, will it destroy them and drop the dark past on their shoulders? Will it haunt for days and days, reminding them that they're so called lesser? Or will it remind them that they're are not equal, even under law?

Can I disenfranchise white people? Can I take their voting rights away? Can I white wash their history in our textbooks?

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

When Trump wins again in four years, I'm going to go back in this topic and just laugh.

 

[Maztorre]

Sure, we can band together. But as a white woman at these events, you should feel you are here for your black brothers and sisters, first. Then, for yourself.

Jesus fucking Christ, so the "Women's March" is about black men because they have it rougher than all white women? Here's a tip: social justice is not a queue where those who feel most aggrieved choose their priority - and guess what, sometimes equality will be achieved in what you perceive to be the "wrong" order in whatever fucked-up league table you use to categorise suffering. It's about maintaining solidarity and demanding everyone's completely reasonable demands for equal treatment are achieved.

Telling people that they aren't a priority is how you lost the election. Preaching down to white women at a women's march about their individual struggles is no different than moaning about BLM not protesting "correctly".

 

[Koodo]

Okay, so let's have a conversation: the feeling of resentment that some POC have against white women as a group for enabling the election of Trump is very real. All this talk about "let's not fight amongst ourselves" isn't going to make it go away. I am going to argue that "let's ignore your grievances" is also in itself divisive. What is your solution?

Arguments like "let's ignore your grievances" are not just divisive but also inherently attempt to erase the realities of minorities, because they introduce the concept that it is not the right time to talk about these issues.

Can they point out in the calendar when is it going to be appropriate to confront issues of race? Can they pull out the entire archived logs of the gregorian calendar and specify a moment in time when it has been appropriate to confront issues of race – i.e. a moment in time when people have not complained that it's inappropriate?

No? Of course not. This isn't an easy subject and will never be. There's never going to be a correct moment in time to confront these issues. There's never going to be a time when confronting these issues isn't going to create tension and resistance from people who – intentionally or unintentionally – cling to the comfort and illusion of the status quo. Telling minorities to wait for a better time is essentially telling them to shut up and die without ever protesting.

 

[Gutek]

SMH. Nothing but division in this thread. Keep your eyes on the prize.

 

[notworksafe]

SMH. Nothing but division in this thread. Keep your eyes on the prize.

they are. the prize is being right in your own mind and everyone here is taking home gold.

 

[akira28]

Goddamn spit that fire.
They don't hear you tho

the backlash is real.

 

[LionPride]

So you're saying that the photo is meant to show that not all white people voted for Trump and are against the cause? I find that hard to believe given the surrounding tweets on the other photo in the OP.

No, it's really just a factual graph a woman is holding, but since a lot of people have issue with the photo in the OP, I guess that's a better photo

Make enemies of your allies huh?

Brilliant maneuver.

I ain't know that white women who voted for Trump were allies. The more you know

 

[blu]

Prejudice + Power = Racism

You could argue that POC can't be part of systemic racism, which is a true statement. But I'm not going say they can be as racist or racist. I'm not here to play softball in this bubble. So no POC can't be racist, they don't have the power to be. If I was killed by cop or a random white dude, will there be justice for? Or just a march? Maybe hashtag? Yeah that's it...

If I called a white person a cracker, will it destroy them and just drop the dark history on their shoulders? Will it haunt for days and days, reminding them that they're so called lesser? Or will it remind them that they're are not equal, even under law?

Can I disenfranchise white people? Can I take their voting rights away? Can I white wash their history in our textbooks?

You can't seriously believe that you have no power against white people, that they're some form of demi-gods to you. You CAN'T be serious. Please, just nod.

 

[zeemumu]

If someone tells you that you are part of what you are fighting against, and defeating yourself, would you not stop to understand whatever they are telling you about your behavior and methods?

No I'm pretty sure first instinct would be to tell that person "fuck you" and proceed to never listen to them again because people are petty and have to be tricked into listening to that sort of thing. It sucks but that's probably what would happen. People don't like to be wrong.

 

[UberTag]

I've stayed out of posting in this thread - largely because these weren't issues that came up on Saturday when I was marching in Canada. We marched in support of equality and tolerance for all and there were speakers and walkers of all races, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation, age and background. It was simply a group of people coming together in support of what we all perceived to be a worthwhile cause and an important opportunity to make a statement.

Now, that said, the variables are different there because we didn't have people walking who directly put Trump into power. And, chances are, most of the marches in the U.S. didn't either. While I think the women in the OP and in the pictures above were making a statement asking Caucasians as a whole to reflect on the decisions that they made, I don't believe this was done out of malice or rejection... simply in a hope of fostering introspection.

That said, I think it's easy to oversimplify a percentage like 53% of white women voted for Trump because I consider it a meaningless number. It's factual, yes... but it's not pertinent data because that number consists of educated women in urban centers who predominantly voted for Clinton regardless of their race as well as uneducated women in rural communities who voted for Trump.

It's the education background that is of paramount importance here. And their ability to be influenced by isolationist propaganda and media and zealots who would capitalize on their ignorance to satisfy their own selfish ends. That is what needs to be targeted, understood and addressed.

So I understand why those signs were made. These are factual statistics and if it's therapeutic to vent by citing them then by all means. People can always use an excuse to be more introspective.

But it's a distraction issue from where the real problems lie. Those problems like with the racism, intolerance, fear and ignorance of the people who voted Trump into power on the basis of a fabricated fantasy that he would be able to make jobs from a bygone era re-materialize in industries that have long passed them by.

Those problems can't be changed or directly addressed with this regime in power to exploit them. That is why we must all continue marching.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

If a sign like this makes you go for trump I think you were for him all along

 

[Gotchaye]

How many of you actually read the Original Post? I don't mean read tweets and furiously typed away. I mean read it?

Come on. The point of the thread is to attack white women who participated in the Women's March as possible secret Trump voters. That's how the OP is framed. Right after this it immediately gets into statistics emphasizing how many white women voted for Trump. Then there's some kinda out-of-place history of politics, where the OP seems to mostly be interested in establishing that minority voters have been better voters in the past too. He draws a tentative conclusion here but immediately refutes it with the next part about Clinton actually talking about the working class. Presumably the idea here is that it's racism, but this isn't explicit and really doesn't have much to do with the rest of the OP. But then we get right back to the OP framing things again talking about how hopefully women in states Trump won will change their minds because of their participation in the marches. The OP sums up by outright saying that white people be able to "take on [sic] criticism as a group rather than individually".

That's the topic. Plus a bunch of really creepy "I'm just stating facts" replies that sound pretty much exactly like what you hear when you call someone out for bringing up "black-on-black crime" in response to BLM protests or whatever.

 

[Carcetti]

Sure, we can band together. But as a white woman at these events, you should feel you are here for your black brothers and sisters, first. Then, for yourself.

Or how about march for the women on the women's march? It's a bit MRA style to turn every event to be about men too.

It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention

Nah, I take that back. Not 'little bit' MRA. Do you think LGTB rights should be tossed away too since they're not about race?

 

[theignoramus]

This is painfully reminiscent of the finger-pointing that followed California Prop. 8.

Dont worry, that war was rekindled in here too.

 

[voodoojohn]

Jesus fucking Christ, so the "Women's March" is about black men because they have it rougher than all white women? Here's a tip: social justice is not a queue where those who feel most aggrieved choose their priority - and guess what, sometimes equality will be achieved in what you perceive to be the "wrong" order in whatever fucked-up league table you use to categorise suffering. It's about maintaining solidarity and demanding everyone's completely reasonable demands for equal treatment are achieved.

Telling people that they aren't a priority is how you lost the election. Preaching down to white women at a women's march about their individual struggles is no different than moaning about BLM not protesting "correctly".

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Wait, didnt Trump do better with African Americans than Romney? Didnt Hillary garner less African American votes than Obama? So should no one have marched based off the logic of the tweets in the OP? Or what about those who decided "fuck it I am not going to vote and hope for the best" who then marched? I am really confused.

Heh, guess it's time to blame black men for not voting for Clinton enough.

Spoiler

/s

The point is the majority of white women voted for trump

We need to figure out why

Don't we know why?
- Racism, e.g. they blame immigrants for taking their jerbs more than they care about their own rights
- Evangelical/pro-life single issue voters

it's so hard, I didn't get the instant results I'm used to being able to get due to my white privilege

gonna need blood and sweat and skin in the game in addition to dollars. as soon as you went home from the march, you were no longer actively engaged. POC are engaged 24/7. Whether they like it or not.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who is "you" here? StoOge? Or the average marcher? Maybe it's true but you don't actually know that, and claiming this as fact is insulting as hell to those who are actually activists. Come on.

"being lumped in" is what POC have to deal with from the white population CONSTANTLY.

True.

How this translates to doing exactly the same thing to white allies is beyond me. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Having your identity removed is part and parcel of being non-white in this country and feeling like you've been betrayed or hurt by simply being addressed as part of the group you are is one of the literal examples of white fragility.

???
No it's not. White fragility would be taking offense at trivial things (e.g. that guy who cried about being called a "white boy") when minorities have to deal with real shit.

White people who voted Clinton and who are marching, a lot of whom have actively opposed Trump, campaigned against him, etc. should rightly be miffed when they are lumped in with Trump voters. This isn't white fragility.

As a male minority, what bothers me about the women's march is that it places the female gender's concerns vis-à-vis men as being equal to male and female minority's concerns vis-à-vis white people. And that's disingenuous.

? No, what's disingenuous is what you just wrote, tbh.
You can fight against breast cancer in one campaign, and prostate cancer in another, without saying one is more important. Playing the oppression Olympics is not helpful.

Promoting understanding between races is the singularly most important, difficult, and complex issue of our times. It's insulting and childish to behave as if a white woman's concerns are equivalent to a black man's. They're not.

No one is doing that. I don't even know why you think this is happening.

How would you like it if I said "BLM is fine and dandy, but what about women? A black man was elected president twice, and both times he won against experienced white politicians. An experienced white woman lost to an inexperienced, incompetent, clownish, evil man. Women are therefore taken less seriously than black men, so BLM should focus on gender more than race, since women make 50% of the population after all!"

You'd probably say I'm creating a distraction from what BLM is about and deflecting in counter-productive ways, and you'd be right.

Jesus fucking Christ, so the "Women's March" is about black men because they have it rougher than all white women? Here's a tip: social justice is not a queue where those who feel most aggrieved choose their priority - and guess what, sometimes equality will be achieved in what you perceive to be the "wrong" order in whatever fucked-up league table you use to categorise suffering. It's about maintaining solidarity and demanding everyone's completely reasonable demands for equal treatment are achieved.

Telling people that they aren't a priority is how you lost the election. Preaching down to white women at a women's march about their individual struggles is no different than moaning about BLM not protesting "correctly".

Thank you.

Edit:

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Unbelievable. Imagine if I dismissed your concerns as a black man to talk about women's issues. Or the very real issues LGBT people face.

There is no "central issues of our times". Holy shit. :\ This is why intersectionality matters.

 

[MistakenMobius]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Spoken like a true Gamegater

 

[boiled goose]

Prejudice + Power = Racism

You could argue that POC can't be part of systemic racism, which is a true statement. But I'm not going say they can be as racist or racist. I'm not here to play softball in this bubble. So no POC can't be racist, they don't have the power to be. If I was killed by a cop or a random white dude, will there be justice for me? Or just a march? Maybe hashtag? Yeah that's it...

If I called a white person a cracker, will it destroy them and drop the dark past on their shoulders? Will it haunt for days and days, reminding them that they're so called lesser? Or will it remind them that they're are not equal, even under law?

Can I disenfranchise white people? Can I take their voting rights away? Can I white wash their history in our textbooks?

I disagree on one minor point. I think poc can still be a part of systematic racism against poc and themselves. Black cops still vulnerable to racist actions. Slightly shieled because of their own experiences, But we all live in a racist society bombarded by racist propaganda. We all internalize these racist stereotypes. Of course some less than others.

Empathy helps, but can't nullify racism.

 

[Dead Man]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Holy shit. This is one of the craziest posts I have read today. And there's been plenty of crazy today.

 

[MrToughPants]

That's racist.

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

That's sexist.

 

[LionPride]

Jesus fucking Christ, so the "Women's March" is about black men because they have it rougher than all white women? Here's a tip: social justice is not a queue where those who feel most aggrieved choose their priority - and guess what, sometimes equality will be achieved in what you perceive to be the "wrong" order in whatever fucked-up league table you use to categorise suffering. It's about maintaining solidarity and demanding everyone's completely reasonable demands for equal treatment are achieved.

Telling people that they aren't a priority is how you lost the election. Preaching down to white women at a women's march about their individual struggles is no different than moaning about BLM not protesting "correctly".

There is a reason the signs black rights = women's rights = LGBT rights are a thing

 

[Cipherr]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

What the.... fuck? Need to nuke this thread like NOW. Just do it.

 

[CrocMother]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Well I'm of the opinion that climate change is the central issue of our times. That doesn't mean that I don't think we should be fighting against racial inequality. This type of attitude is the epitome of dangerous extremism.

 

[boiled goose]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

A little relative privation Logical fallacy here.

We should all march for child abuse and hunger then. Or world peace.

 

[Plum]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

"From what's actually important."

Should a woman forced to raise a child they never asked for and never wanted because of anti-abortion bills just lay down and take it because racial issues haven't been fixed?

How about a transgender person literally putting their lives on the line every time they dare to ask someone out on a date? Should they just grin and bear it as well?

Because this is what you're advocating. I agree with CrocMother that climate change is the main issue of our time, but I would never in a million years even imply that the issues of PoCs, the LGBT community and women are any less important because of it.

 

[Irminsul]

No I'm pretty sure first instinct would be to tell that person "fuck you" and proceed to never listen to them again because people are petty and have to be tricked into listening to that sort of thing. It sucks but that's probably what would happen. People don't like to be wrong.

About half of this thread should take courses in psychology and game theory at least.

Okay, that depends on their goals, of course. It seems to me staying ideologically pure is more important than actually changing anything.

 

[Aaronology]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

I don't even know how to approach this one. I legitimately feel bad for women on GAF having to read this.

 

[LionPride]

Come on. The point of the thread is to attack white women who participated in the Women's March as possible secret Trump voters. That's how the OP is framed. Right after this it immediately gets into statistics emphasizing how many white women voted for Trump. Then there's some kinda out-of-place history of politics, where the OP seems to mostly be interested in establishing that minority voters have been better voters in the past too. He draws a tentative conclusion here but immediately refutes it with the next part about Clinton actually talking about the working class. Presumably the idea here is that it's racism, but this isn't explicit and really doesn't have much to do with the rest of the OP. But then we get right back to the OP framing things again talking about how hopefully women in states Trump won will change their minds because of their participation in the marches. The OP sums up by outright saying that white people be able to "take on [sic] criticism as a group rather than individually".

That's the topic. Plus a bunch of really creepy "I'm just stating facts" replies that sound pretty much exactly like what you hear when you call someone out for bringing up "black-on-black crime" in response to BLM protests or whatever.

The OP is weird, but folks ain't responding to it. They responding to pictures and tweets that upset them

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Nigga what? Race and Gender issues are both very important. One isn't more valuable than the other.

 

[Dead Man]

About half of this thread should take courses in psychology and game theory at least.

Okay, that depends on their goals, of course. It seems to me staying ideologically pure is more important than actually changing anything.

Everyone everywhere should, but yeah, it would help this thread for sure.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

People voted for Trump because they're stupid, which goes across lines of gender and race

I'm sure the people who made those signs and tweets thought they were pretty clever but it's. not really saying shit

 

[plagiarize]

If someone posted something about how White men who were at the march needed to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are doing enough to stop Trump...

I wouldn't be offended at them. Nor would I get angry about being 'tarred with a broad brush' or whatever. I'd think to myself, shit... *am I doing enough?*

It wouldn't be the first time I've asked myself that question since the election.

It's much easier to get upset at the person asking you to do a little introspection than it is doing that introspection. Introspection sucks. Maybe you're good for introspection right now. Maybe you're the most introspective person ever.

But then I still don't see why that comment would bother you if you were.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

Man, this thread is getting weird.

 

[DerangedHermit]

I think you should calm down. It is my genuine opinion that race is the central issue of our times, and not gender. It is my genuine opinion that a women's march distracts from what's actually important, and for many women, is little more than an opportunity to grab attention. You getting angry with me won't change my opinion.

You trying to hijack this for your own MRA bullshit is just ... man...

 

[CrocMother]

About half of this thread should take courses in psychology and game theory at least.

Okay, that depends on their goals, of course. It seems to me staying ideologically pure is more important than actually changing anything.

This is obviously debatable, but I am on the other end of this spectrum here. It's about making the biggest change for the most endangered people who have no voice. I'd lie my ass off in front of the nation if it meant we could make a substantial impact on income inequality, racial inequality, climate change, etc. My principles are not more important than people's lives.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Most important thing right now is to get Trump out of office. Questioning ourselves will not help, but divide.

Let's get this done first.

On one hand I understand this perspective and do feel some rather weak and divisive arguments are being made (that many seem afraid to challenge). But on the other hand...a racist, sexist fascist just got elected president because a large enough majority of white voters voted for him, in juxtaposition to the overwhelming majority of every minority group voting against him. If minority groups (especially black women) say "we did our part, what the fuck was your problem?" who are we to catch feelings or get mad? They all saw this guy for what he is.

In short a lot of white people need to be asking what happened here. Yes I think it's safe to say that very few of the 53% of white women who voted for Trump were at that rally, for instance. But I also think it's safe to say a lot of white men and women at that rally didn't vote at all in November. And to those people you gotta ask...well, what the fuck was your problem.

 

[Crocodile]

I'm more and more convinced that the problem with this topic is more how the OP was organized (shitty with a few shitty examples) than the general topic (which is true and worth having a discussion about).

How does attacking the women who are actively opposing Donald Trump address your grievances with the women who voted for him? Explain that one to me.

I won't stan for that first tweet at all but that photo seems to me to obviously not be an attack on these 3 women specifically but the voting patterns of White Women in general. The BonB crime comparison feels a little disingenuous as in that example one would be trying to express either ignorance or is an attempt to agitate. This clearly seems to be an expression of frustration and betrayal?

 

[Sunster]

If someone posted something about how White men who were at the march needed to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are doing enough to stop Trump...

I wouldn't be offended at them. Nor would I get angry about being 'tarred with a broad brush' or whatever. I'd think to myself, shit... *am I doing enough?*

It wouldn't be the first time I've asked myself that question since the election.

It's much easier to get upset at the person asking you to do a little introspection than it is doing that introspection. Introspection sucks. Maybe you're good for introspection right now. Maybe you're the most introspective person ever.

But then I still don't see why that comment would bother you if you were.

you should be super offended and vote trump in in spite.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm sorry, do you have any idea who I am and what my life is about?

Because I can promise you, you absolutely do not. You have no idea what my background is, who I am, or what I do on a day in day out basis, and this post is increadibly dismissive of me and what I am about.

Unless you are black, then you can never understand the full extent of being black in a racist white-controlled society.

What white people need to do is shut the fuck up, and listen. Listen. Only listen. Just fucking listen, without going on the defensive about anything. Nobody gives a damning fuck how much money we give and how many marches we go to, we will never understand fully. You can have empathy. You can act as a conduit for change. But you will never have to live it.

You want to know who you are?

As a white person, how you are seen by society is merely a change of clothes and a haircut. You could walk around unkempt and scraggly and have people run away from you. Slap on a business suit and a salon visit, walk down the SAME street, and the world molds itself to you.

As a black person, you are a black person in street clothes, a black businessman, a black teacher. Whites see you as black first and resist you instantly.

You can't even wear your hair however you want to. Wearing natural black hair is "rocking the boat" or "unkept" instead of just being hair. White people wrote the rules on workplace and school rules and specifically targeted minorities. People just accept it as "thems the rules".

You get home and most of your media is white-dominated because they only hire other whites. If more than 2 black people are in a show, it's now always gotta be a "black show", and they filter all the black stars over to that single show while all the other shows retain their whiteness, like they feel they threw people a bone and now they should be happy.

You go online and white people let racists question your humanity with no pushback because "everyone has a viewpoint". Ignore all the systemic racism that means black neighborhoods are often the last to get usable internet because the companies are allowed to target the richer white areas first. Watch as people that think they're being innovative and "standing up for everyone" are just copy pasting white society onto the internet.

You go to a march and show your support. You maybe put some slight skin in the game holding up a BLM sign. Black people are always marching, day to day, just from existing and walking down the street, in the white perception. You know when you're at the march, and you wonder if something's going to happen? Is that dude over there going to pop off? Yeah welcome to a small percent of a small slice of being black day to fucking day.

People are sick and fucking tired of supposed allies that play on both sides and refuse to acknowledge it. Nobody gives a fuck if you marched, Bernie did that too, and then ran back to whitelandia where he never had to court a black vote to retain office. Even having that as an option influences your decisions in life.

I went to the march, and afterwards I went to my car and societally, disappeared into the background noise again, driving a shitty 97 honda with no fear of ever being pulled over. The black mom behind me with her daughter walked back to their '15 Elantra and told her daughter to remember not to make any sudden movements if the police felt like randomly stopping her on her drive out lest they get tazed, shot, or otherwise humiliated.

 

[Irminsul]

If someone posted something about how White men who were at the march needed to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are doing enough to stop Trump...

I wouldn't be offended at them. Nor would I get angry about being 'tarred with a broad brush' or whatever. I'd think to myself, shit... *am I doing enough?*

It wouldn't be the first time I've asked myself that question since the election.

That's good for you, but you can't honestly think that's the typical reaction of the average person, right? If so, you really should take courses in psychology.

And why would you care about the typical reaction? Because you fucking need those votes, that's why.

 

[E92 M3]

Common sense dictates that you don't gain allies by attacking them, but lately everyone has to one up each other with purity tests.

 

[stephen08]

Arguments like "let's ignore your grievances" are not just divisive but also inherently attempt to erase the realities of minorities, because they introduce the concept that it is not the right time to talk about these issues.

Can they point out in the calendar when is it going to be appropriate to confront issues of race? Can they pull out the entire archived logs of the gregorian calendar and specify a moment in time when it has been appropriate to confront issues of race – i.e. a moment in time when people have not complained that it's inappropriate?

No? Of course not. This isn't an easy subject and will never be. There's never going to be a correct moment in time to confront these issues. There's never going to be a time when confronting these issues isn't going to create tension and resistance from people who – intentionally or unintentionally – cling to the comfort and illusion of the status quo. Telling minorities to wait for a better time is essentially telling them to shut up and die without ever protesting.

It's not about saying wait to air those grievances, it is about choosing the right targets. Air your grievances all you want at me, I already agree it is fucked up and needs to change. You can spend time and effort targeting me if you like but its not going to net you any more followers as I am already in agreement. Unless there was a huge section of people who voted for Trump and then marched this seems pointless. I suppose the argument could be made that even though these people are against Trump they still might not be fully attuned to how racist society still is and maybe there is some truth in that but the sign was specifically about Trump support and not racism so I think that is getting into a whole other thing.

Also the wait for a better time thing is a problem when its like a 'society just isnt ready' type of excuse. I don't think it applies nor should it when other topics are being discussed. We can care about lots of things at once but when certain topics are coming up they should be given full attention. It would be unfair in my opinion to go to a BLM rally and talk about injustices the LGBT community face too. That's a common fallacy opponents will throw in to disrupt progress. It's the whole 'starving kids in Africa' argument. Rally against all injustice at every opportunity but don't take away from other groups to push another just cause.

 

[Sunster]

Unless you are black, then you can never understand the full extent of being black in a racist white-controlled society.

What white people need to do is shut the fuck up, and listen. Listen. Only listen. Just fucking listen, without going on the defensive about anything. Nobody gives a damning fuck how much money we give and how many marches we go to, we will never understand fully. You can have empathy. You can act as a conduit for change. But you will never have to live it.

You want to know who you are?

As a white person, how you are seen by society is merely a change of clothes and a haircut. You could walk around unkempt and scraggly and have people run away from you. Slap on a business suit and a salon visit, walk down the SAME street, and the world molds itself to you.

As a black person, you are a black person in street clothes, a black businessman, a black teacher. Whites see you as black first and resist you instantly.

You can't even wear your hair however you want to. Wearing natural black hair is "rocking the boat" or "unkept" instead of just being hair. White people wrote the rules on workplace and school rules and specifically targeted minorities. People just accept it as "thems the rules".

You get home and most of your media is white-dominated because they only hire other whites. If more than 2 black people are in a show, it's now always gotta be a "black show", and they filter all the black stars over to that single show while all the other shows retain their whiteness, like they feel they threw people a bone and now they should be happy.

You go online and white people let racists question your humanity with no pushback because "everyone has a viewpoint". Ignore all the systemic racism that means black neighborhoods are often the last to get usable internet because the companies are allowed to target the richer white areas first. Watch as people that think they're being innovative and "standing up for everyone" are just copy pasting white society onto the internet.

You go to a march and show your support. You maybe put some slight skin in the game holding up a BLM sign. Black people are always marching, day to day, just from existing and walking down the street, in the white perception. You know when you're at the march, and you wonder if something's going to happen? Is that dude over there going to pop off? Yeah welcome to a small percent of a small slice of being black day to fucking day.

People are sick and fucking tired of supposed allies that play on both sides and refuse to acknowledge it. Nobody gives a fuck if you marched, Bernie did that too, and then ran back to whitelandia where he never had to court a black vote to retain office. Even having that as an option influences your decisions in life.

I went to the march, and afterwards I went to my car and societally, disappeared into the background noise again, driving a shitty 97 honda with no muffler you can hear for blocks with no fear of ever being pulled over. The black mom behind me with her daughter walked back to their '15 Elantra and told her daughter to remember not to make any sudden movements if the police felt like randomly stopping her on her drive out lest they get tazed, shot, or otherwise humiliated.

but...divisive...you NEED us. Be nice. Never criticize. Also pat us on the back when we march with you. /s

 

[QisTopTier]

Prejudice + Power = Racism

You could argue that POC can't be part of systemic racism, which is a true statement. But I'm not going say they can be as racist or racist. I'm not here to play softball in this bubble. So no POC can't be racist, they don't have the power to be. If I was killed by a cop or a random white dude, will there be justice for me? Or just a march? Maybe hashtag? Yeah that's it...

If I called a white person a cracker, will it destroy them and drop the dark past on their shoulders? Will it haunt for days and days, reminding them that they're so called lesser? Or will it remind them that they're are not equal, even under law?

Can I disenfranchise white people? Can I take their voting rights away? Can I white wash their history in our textbooks?

I don't know is it possible for a white child to grow up in a multi-culture low income environment and be harassed and assaulted for being white and later in life feel extra mental weight from bigoted white insults? Probably. It's not common but it happens. But it's ok right? He's white fuck the history of his own life. His race has had it made in the big times.