For clarification I wasn't necessarily speaking against any form of violence. Take his signs away, physically drag him away, get multiple people to force him elsewhere, if someone feels the need to react even more violently than that then I wouldn't be surprised. Punch richard spencer all you want even, but literally batting someone in the head is a bit much. Could have been much worse than what ended up happening here.
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Preacher w/ you deserve to be raped sign hit over head by bat wielding woman
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
For clarification I wasn't necessarily speaking against any form of violence. Take his signs away, physically drag him away, get multiple people to force him elsewhere, if someone feels the need to react even more violently than that then I wouldn't be surprised. Punch richard spencer all you want even, but literally batting someone in the head is a bit much. Could have been much worse than what ended up happening here.
Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread! I'll make sure to remember this if I ever get assaulted. Gotta stare them right in the eyes and communicate to them that I don't agree with their words and actions.
Serious question. What do you think is worse, assault with a deadly weapon or rape?
Rudimental
Member
Self-defense just is assault in a different context. That's the entire point.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Pretty disingenuous to equate self defense to this
Hm.....okay. Yeah, I can get that. If you're objection is just the level of violence being raised to include the possibility of death, then okay, I can understand that. I don't feel sympathy for the guy in question here, but I atleast can see that you're reasonable.
It's the people who think we live in a saturday morning cartoon that bug me.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Compared to on a regular basis advocating for the sexual assault of women, regular railing against the LBGT community, actually assaulting a woman who tried to have a discussion, and generally disturbing the peace and lives of people just trying to live their lives? Yes the bat is absolutely the worst thing here. /s
Surely you recognize there exists other avenues. Protests, education, research...just to name three. These all have the downside of taking longer than punches, but the upside of actually working.
Rape, obviously.
Edit: Or, well generally speaking. I guess it depends on specific instances.
Yup, break an arm or something. Dont go straight to killing
Yeah that's it. The hit isn't shown on camera so can't say how severe it could have been but the girl is lucky the dude didn't get paralyzed or worse.
That's all I can post on this I think lol. Batted or not, I don't want to be anywhere near the defending side of "preacher with you deserve do be raped sign"
This moron isn't holding up such a sign because of a lack of education. He knows what he's doing and while extreme, this is an outcome that will always be possible for people seeking this kind of attention.
Hierophant
Banned
what the fuck
The guy deserved to be hit that's for damn sure, but with a bat? Maybe not... If she would of killed him with that hit then what?
Using a weapon was prolly a bad decision.
But damn what a human piece of shit to be spouting that crap and holding that sign in front of a school......
I would of prolly decked him though that's for sure.
Using a weapon was prolly a bad decision.
But damn what a human piece of shit to be spouting that crap and holding that sign in front of a school......
I would of prolly decked him though that's for sure.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Also, for those who missed it (like me) on page two (100ppp), this is a old story with this outcome:
so if you're cheering for your vigilante-power-fantasy-by-proxy, congratulations for cheering someone's life basically being over just because some lunatic was allowed to be somewhere he shouldn't have been.
There is nothing worth cheering for here.
so if you're cheering for your vigilante-power-fantasy-by-proxy, congratulations for cheering someone's life basically being over just because some lunatic was allowed to be somewhere he shouldn't have been.
There is nothing worth cheering for here.
Monocle
Member
That woman was wrong to hit the guy, but I'm not in any hurry to condemn her actions tbh.
That's not the part people are cheering.
Is that really a controversial statement? If some poor fuck is eating through a tube for the rest of his life it's probably worse than statutory rape.
Well there's good rape and then there's bad rape.
Rumblebones
Banned
What is wrong with you? Hitting someone in the head with a bat is a shade away from outright attempted murder. That is worse anything a loser surrounded by people rightfully mocking and condemning his depravity can say.
This is where I get off the crazy train.
old manatee
Banned
It's ridiculously fucked up that a bunch of minors trying to get an education had to deal with someone telling them that they deserve to be raped.
excelsiorlef
Member
Isn't it?
And it's like basically oh well what can ya do?
Literally a proposed solution in here was for those teen girls to just laught it off.
Yup. I grew up in a rough part of Bradford and I've seen people go down for less. The most dangerous thing about street fights aren't the strikes , but what happens afterwards. It's so easy to knock someone out and have him slam his head against the pavement.
So yeah, a bat to the head was unnecessary. Shit could've gone south real quick.
excelsiorlef
Member
Nope.
Prove that. Show me where protest in the last 2 years have disbanded organized hate groups. Link me where the higher level of education we enjoy has decreased bigotry in recent times. I don't mean learning more about bigotry and how it works, but where have we taken avenues to stop it and where is the proof that it's working and how recent is it.
I know plenty of stuff on an individual level, sure, stories about former racists or misogynists who have learned how bullshit their views were. But those are few and far inbetween while hate crimes have only spiked in recent times and legal rights have been stripped away. Bigots of every creed feel more encouraged than ever to target minorities and with the government in republican control, we're not going to see any change on a legal level soon.
Punching Richard Spencer has put an immediate stop to his hate speech and has forced him and his cohorts into hiding so they can only co-miserate together in private venues. It has worked. It hasn't made him not racist or his cohorts not racist, but I don't need it to. I need him to not spew this bullshit in public so as to not engender hatred in others. The punch to the face seems to have worked just fine for that.
finowns
Member
You took the bait Euphor!a. Now I ask is murder worse than rape. I want a numerical interpretation. Answer! And by god you better not ever say there are varying levels of heinousness in both!
Yeah I'm totally ok with this considering his target was high school girls and telling them they deserve to be raped. It's honestly sad he got away so easily. Someone that can yell that to a huge group of young women, many who would have statistically been raped or sexually assaulted already in their lives, deserves worse than he got.
Yes. Violence is never, ever a good thing. Verbal or physical.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I think to say 'you deserved to be raped' is one of the most disgusting things to say. Sure the baseball bat is extreme but I can't say I'm surprised. He pretty much had it coming to him.
Now if he was simply expressing his dislike of homosexuality and he got hit on the head with a baseball bat, then that's probably uncalled for.
Now if he was simply expressing his dislike of homosexuality and he got hit on the head with a baseball bat, then that's probably uncalled for.
A Link to the Past
Banned
People who are celebrating that he got attacked are doing so because he was advocating violence and was saying horrible hate speech. People who are happy he got assaulted is not equivalent to a person targeting people based on their gender and sexuality.
excelsiorlef
Member
That's an argument you can make but it ain't all identical
finowns
Member
It's kind of a cliche thing to say, doesn't really work in the actual world. But it's a nice thought
Octavianus
Banned
Feels pretty good in this case.
Do you think the majority of Americans supporting gay marriage happened because we punched people who disagreed? Of course not. It was a long, slow process of education and speaking out. Race is of course not a solved issue by any measure, but the subject is better relative to how it was 50 years ago. Violence didn't do that, it was tireless, sustained effort. Life is better now in almost every conceivable way than it was 100, 50, 10 years ago. That's in spite of violence, not because of it.
Punching away bigotry is the exact same strategy as bombing away terrorism. It doesn't work and has never worked.
Rudimental
Member
You don't have to. Some people here are talking about morality in ridiculously absolute terms. Others have been trying to show how her actions are justified by invoking what you might call 'escape clauses', i.e. the 'except' clauses attached to moral principles. So, 'you should not assault someone with a bat, except if they are advocating for rape.'
What you're talking about is something different, sometimes called 'excusing conditions'. This is where there is a situation in which someone has done something wrong, for which we accept that they are responsible, but we excuse them from some or all of the blame, due to additional considerations. In this case, we could look to the epidemic of sexual violence as an excusing condition, and perhaps some of the girl's own circumstance (if we knew it) as excusing conditions. What she did would still be wrong, but she would be excused from some, or even all, of the blame.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Hey but according to the LAW it's not attempted the murder. And no, if anything, her actions were the only thing that got this creep away from a bunch of teenagers he was saying needed to be raped. And he went on to continue his crusade against women and LBGT and proceeded to kick a woman in her chest for attempting to debate with him.
And the false equivalences just keep growing....
Duterte, Putin and Trump disagree lol.
excelsiorlef
Member
Since you didn't respond I will answer this for you.
People on the right love to play this partisan game when it suits them. Leftists trying to drown out bigotry or punch nazis? Fascism! Slippery slope! This is a civilized society you can't take the law into your own hands! etc etc
When it comes to the police/ right wing frontliners killing minorities on the reg... well... that aint something y'all ever wanna talk about.
Fancy that.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It's about the ethics of rape.
There's good rape and there's bad rape. I bet your punk ass is going to go to statutory rape between two teens dating to try and make your pathetic point.
Westbahnhof
Banned
I would (edit: possibly) agree with "a big asshole just like this dude". But AS big? Nah man.
While the assault wasn't okay, it was an understandable reaction, and cheering, while ultimately wrong imo, makes sense.
A guy coming to shock, offend and provoke got more than he bargained for.
There is something satisfying about that.
The "preacher" had loads of time to plan gow he would act, and he chose to be as disgusting as possible. It's hard to be as big an asshole as him.
I read it as "well, depending on the outcome assault can be worse", which is possible, no?
Things like total locked-in-syndrome..
Nemesis121
Member
ok you want a contribution, let me phrase this way, violence because of words is never right.....this is coming from a person who's black and have had to deal with racism all my life, never in my life have I thrown a punch over being called NIGGER...NEVER..... does it hurt? yes, and it will continue to hurt even when i am 60 years old, but getting violent and beating the shit out of the person won't make them any less racist or hateful, can't cure hatred with violence...you reach a hateful person with words, violence only solidify their point of view..
Hierophant
Banned
I mean don't even take our words for it, take the countless sources that proclaim the Stonewall riots as the single most important event for the Gay rights movement
http://www.civilrights.org/archives/2009/06/449-stonewall.html
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-stonewall-riot
https://www.aclu-or.org/blog/Stonewall_Riots
Pretty disingenuous to pretend that post had any relevance to this thread. It's the dictionary definition of a driveby shitpost response to a post stating that violence is acceptable in some situations.
Whether this situation is one of them is entirely irrelevant.
I don't disagree. I also don't think she made the right choice, it's not wise to knock someone over the head with a baseball bat. Could've killed him! And that'd be fucked up!
I also don't think she actively ended up making a thoughtout choice. It seemed like an entirely impulsive act made by a nineteen year old that didn't think her actions through. I doubt she had the time to properly think about what she was doing before she whacked him over the head. Maybe she even felt like she or her friends were honestly being threatened.
But she still did something wrong and deserved to be arrested.
...on the other hand, the guy got off without any proper punishment. He knew what he was doing, and he probably knew he was going to end up getting hurt over it. People want the bully to be punished, not just the person that beat the shit out of him.
You could also drop your instigating bullshit. What do you think you're adding to this conversation? To this thread?
That's a lot more agreeable. But I've seen so much heinous shit being done to people that barely borders on not being violent that I personally can't agree. I won't ever try to be the person that steps to violence, but I honestly can't vilify anyone that loses it and steps to violence.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Some people don't deserve to exist. The guy in the OP is one of those people.
You can argue it's about point of view and that he has the right to threaten young girls with rape, but you're just being an ass and emboldening someone who advocates rape as punishment by making that argument.
Monocle
Member
That's an interesting perspective, thanks.
That's not a great endorsement.
Violence in response to violence, not words. The subsequent actions are what made what we have now possible.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
People that say that "violence never works" tend to either at best not actually know jackshit about history, or at worst blatantly ignore history.....or the massive irony that they're saying so while in a country literally founded by violence.
excelsiorlef
Member
Oh pretty sure there were words too.
Also advocating for rape ain't just words either.
None that I recall. Although at my advanced age that's not unusual.
Preach. I've had all sorts of hateful shit thrown at me for being black, asian and muslim. Despite all that I know better than to respond with violence.
Plus, could you imagine what them white folks would do to me if I so much as raise my arm? Lordy.
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