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Preacher w/ ‘you deserve to be raped’ sign hit over head by bat wielding woman

PnCIa

Member
I would agree with *a big asshole just like this dude". But AS big? Nah man.

While the assault wasn't okay, it was an understandable reaction, and cheering, while ultimately wrong imo, makes sense.
A guy coming to shock, offend and provoke got more than he bargained for.
There is something satisfying about that.

The "preacher" had loads of time to plan gow he would act, and he chose to be as disgusting as possible. It's hard to be as big an asshole as him.
I agree that the "as big" part is not the right way to put it. Another kind of asshole would be more fitting.

What this guy kept shouting and her hitting him with a bat sure is different. Answering verbal violence with physical violence is not an inherently better way to solve the problem though. Advocating violence, verbal or physical "for the right reason" will not solve anything.
 

Veelk

Banned
Do you think the majority of Americans supporting gay marriage happened because we punched people who disagreed? Of course not. It was a long, slow process of education and speaking out. Race is of course not a solved issue by any measure, but the subject is better relative to how it was 50 years ago. Violence didn't do that, it was tireless, sustained effort. Life is better now in almost every conceivable way than it was 100, 50, 10 years ago. That's in spite of violence, not because of it.

The fact that you are trying to reference how much better things are relative to 50 years ago when I asked for recent changes is kind of my point.

BTW, you know why it really happened? It wasn't education. It was because we had enough democrats working in the government to make it happen. I certainly never had a class revolving around discussing how worthy a gay person is as a human being or anything like that. We became more progressive in regards to sexuality in general for a variety of cultural reasons, from it just becoming more commonplace to have an outspoken gay relative to it being reflected in our media and other things. But the reason it got made into an actual law? That was because circumstances allowed it to pass. We had enough power in the government to make it so.

Nothing like that is going to happen for the next 4 years at minimum. Which is a problem. Fuck, especially since we have fake news sites regularly misinforming people about the realities of the world around them. It's possible that we're going to regress in education since a lot of people are working without any way to filter out the BS. You can think that we have more resources to educate our culture on how to be more progressive, but the truth is so do people to seek to regress our society.

But regardless of any of that, you have failed to address any of the points that I raised, in that
1. You still don't have proof of this happening recently on any significant scale,
2a. that the violence option does work. It shut Spencer up. Why are you saying it doesn't.
2b. Or hell, why not both? Feel free to educate the masses on the virtues of liberalism and let people punch assholes in the meantime.
and now here's a new one:
3. Lets say that you're right and that 50 years from now, we will be living in a world that has made as much distance away from bigotry as the world we live in now relative to 50 years before. Please tell me how that's supposed to make the people who, because of you're "Slow and steady wins the race, kids!" method, are going to be killed, raped, wrongfully imprisoned, denied rights and otherwise dehumanized in those 50 years only to end up in a place that, while better, still has a staggering amount of the same issues we can solve now.

Punching away bigotry is the exact same strategy as bombing away terrorism. It doesn't work and has never worked.
I'm sorry, but this is stupid. These two things are so unequivocal it's borderline offensive.

No one who isn't already a white supremacist is going to be convinced white supremacy is right because someone punched Richard Spencer while he was spewing hate speech. No one.
 

RangerX

Banned
I'm late to this but I can't believe some of the responses in this thread. This preacher is a despicable cunt but it doesn't justify what this girl did. Despite the fact she could completely fuck up her life because of the charge she genuinely could have killed him. As repugnant as he is I doubt she would want that on her conscience. Violence should be used only in self defense.
 

KHarvey16

Member
The fact that you are trying to reference how much better things are relative to 50 years ago when I asked for recent changes is kind of my point.

BTW, you know why it really happened? It wasn't education. It was because we had enough democrats working in the government to make it happen. And it sure as shit wasn't education. I certainly never had a class revolving around discussing how worthy a gay person is as a human being or anything like that. We became more progressive in regards to sexuality in general for a variety of cultural reasons. But the reason it got made into law is because we happened to have enough power in the government to make it so.

Nothing like that is going to happen for the next 4 years at minimum. Which is a problem. Fuck, especially since we have fake news sites regularly misinforming people about the realities of the world around them. It's possible that we're going to regress in education since a lot of people are working without any way to filter out the BS. You can think that we have more resources to educate our culture on how to be more progressive, but the truth is so do people to seek to regress.

But regardless of any of that, you have failed to address any of the points that I raised, in that
1. You still don't have proof of this happening recently on any significant scale,
2a. that the violence option does work. It shut Spencer up. Why are you saying it doesn't.
2b. Or hell, why not both? Feel free to educate the masses on the virtues of liberalism and let people punch assholes in the meantime.
and now here's a new one:
3. Lets say that you're right and that 50 years from now, we will be living in a world that has made as much distance away from bigotry as the world we live in now relative to 50 years before. Please tell me how that's supposed to make the people who, because of you're "Slow and steady wins the race, kids!" method, are going to be killed, raped, and and otherwise dehumanized in those 50 years only to end up in a place that, while better, still has a staggering amount of the same issues we should have dealt with long ago.

I wasn't talking about laws, I was talking about what the population believes. For all of our history up to a few years ago most people would not have conceived of an acceptance of gay marriage, never mind accepting it themselves. That changed because people were convinced it should change through education. And when I say education, I don't mean classes. I mean persistent injection of concepts and ideas into the culture. That kind of education.

And democrats held majorities in many years and decades and never did it. It required popular support. Without that there's nothing.

If less than a decade is not recent enough, look at the acceptance and support of transgender people. Nothing is finished obviously and there is so much progress to make, but you can go back to not-that-old GAF threads and see anti-transgender sentiment being completely normal and unquestioned. Society is making progress here and modern technology, with its ability to educate people through the sharing of ideas and experiences, is speeding that up. Not punching. Not violence.

Waiting for all of that to run its course sucks. No argument there. People will suffer needlessly. People will die. But the desire to fix that as quickly as possible doesn't magically mean there must be a fast solution.
 
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

Edit: My bad, I dunno what I was saying here. What the guy is saying IS disgusting but he has a right to say it due to free speech laws and no he still didn't deserve it. Mentally ill or not in my opinion.
 

Yayate

Member
You asked a stupid question. And now you want to get whiny.

This post would be far more impressive had it not come from someone that hadn't posted anything but 'gotcha!' for this entire thread.

If you're done shitposting, you can read my actual reply to his post. It's entirely void of what you claimed I would do. I was establishing context.

Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.


Just because you legally can, doesn't mean you should.

And are you seriously saying it's not disgusting to say that women should just get raped?
 
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.
You don't think what the preacher said is at all disgusting? Just because of free speech?

Like, I don't like violence like this, but that doesn't mean I don't find the guy's actions disgusting.
 
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

Lol... this is absurd.

Digusting and illegal aren't synonyms
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.
You don't find advocating for the rape of teenagers to be disgusting because muh free speech? Wtf....
 

Hex

Banned
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

Speech is not free, not when it has an effect on others.
If you are willing to put it out there, then you need to be willing to be accountable.
She should have used a wood bat, better crack on impact.
Amazing how convenient that Free Speech shield can be
 

KHarvey16

Member
I'm sorry, but this is stupid. These two things are so unequivocal it's borderline offensive.

No one who isn't already a white supremacist is going to be convinced white supremacy is right because someone punched Richard Spencer while he was spewing hate speech. No one.

I was not arguing terrorism cannot be solved by bombing terrorists because bombs convince others to become terrorists. That isn't what allows those ideas to sustain themselves.
 
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

I never got that American free speech boner.
I'm a big fan of not being legally allowed to deny the holocaust, thank you very much
 

Game-Biz

Member
Gotta say, the sound of that ping was a beautiful thing. I feel bad for the teen that was charged, but that's the price one must pay.
 

Thorgal

Member
Some people don't deserve to exist. The guy in the OP is one of those people.

You can argue it's about point of view and that he has the right to threaten young girls with rape, but you're just being an ass and emboldening someone who advocates rape as punishment by making that argument.

Maybe they don't deserve to exist but that is not your or mine decision to make .

Murder will never be justified in my book .
 

finowns

Member
This post would be far more impressive had it not come from someone that hadn't posted anything but 'gotcha!' for this entire thread.

If you're done shitposting, you can read my actual reply to his post. It's entirely void of what you claimed I would do. I was establishing context.

More bs. And my post wasn't even prompted by you it was mainly in regards to the responses. But go on.
 

Veelk

Banned
Waiting for all of that to run its course sucks. No argument there. People will suffer needlessly. People will die. But the desire to fix that as quickly as possible doesn't magically mean there must be a fast solution.

Yes, it does. For the third time, I'm asking you to explain to me what about Richard Spencer being punched to get him to shut up didn't work. He's now afraid to preach hatred in a public venue. As far as I can tell, the punch worked as intended.

And I think you're thinking about it wrong. You seem to think that if there are more 'educated people' then there are naturally less uneducated people about this stuff. We're currently in a strange position of being as progressively educated as we've ever been while having a surge of bigotry we haven't seen in ages. The strength of one is not indicative as the weakness of the other, and the 'education' of people (which is caused by so many different, minor factors that it is basically outside of any one groups control and therefore isn't something we can actually accelerate) isn't hampered by people who are willing to take a stand against this stupid bullshit.

You're acting like it's given fact that people fighting back is something that hampers that progress and...well, show your evidence of this. I'll wait.

But to get your basic point, fuck no. I refuse to just cosign people into a world of murder, rape and dehumanization. If someone is doing that to you, you should fight back. Physically if need be. Because that is a fight in which you are literally fighting for your humanity.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Yes, it does. And I think you're thinking about it wrong. You seem to think that if there are more 'educated people' then there are naturally less uneducated people about this stuff. We're currently in a strange position of being as progressively educated as we've ever been while having a surge of bigotry we haven't seen in ages. The strength of one is not indicative as the weakness of the other, and the 'education' of people (which is caused by so many different, minor factors that it is basically outside of any one groups control and therefore isn't something we can actually accelerate) isn't hampered by people who are willing to take a stand against this stupid bullshit.

Because you're acting like it's proven fact that people fighting back is something that hampers that progress and...well, show your evidence fo this. I'll wait.

But to get your basic point, fuck no. I refuse to just cosign people into murder, rape and dehumanization. If someone is doing that to you, you should fight back. Because that is, actually literally, fighting for your humanity.

There is absolutely not more bigotry now than recent history, never mind all history. And yes, when I cite facts about a majority of the country supporting gay marriage, I mean as a percentage. That is literally defined in a way that requires less people to disagree if more agree.

Bigots and other idiots simply have platforms now that they never did. Less people agree with them than ever, because it's no longer true that your volume is commensurate with your support.

I've said the education I'm referencing requires a sustained effort by multitudes of people. That's the hard work that takes time. It's taking less today given the tools at our disposal, but it's still not over night.
 

Breads

Banned
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

You have the right to free speech too so if you want to judge them you can!

Free speech protects you from the government. Not judgement from other people.
 

Thorgal

Member
He deserves worse. Far worse.

what do you propose ?

cut his ears, tongue and nose ( and possibly his genitals as well) off ?
Punch and kick him until he's a veggie ?
Bullet in the head ?
Skin him alive ?
Torture him until he begs for death ?

How bloodthirsty are you feeling today ?
 

Veelk

Banned

Okay at this point, you're not even making the effort of answering my questions, let alone providing evidence to substantiate your assertions. I've done this enough to know there isn't a point in asking them yet again, so I won't. You're giving soft theories rooted in generalizations on why things are the way they are and not addressing the actual problem of what we do about the issue in the here and the now. It's just a 'just wait until it resolves itself through populism' when it's populism that is the source of a lot of regression.

If you don't have an answer, then I'm just going to say this: It is in no way moral or even sane to expect people to just sit back and passively allow themselves to be dehumanized until white people decide that, finally, it's time to accept them as actual people. That's honestly fucked up and even that, in itself, is symptomatic of a privileged society.

And it is wrong.
 

Royce McCutcheon

Junior Member
Okay at this point, you're not even making the effort of answering my questions, let alone providing evidence of anything, so this isn't going to go anywhere. You're giving soft theories on why things are the way they are and not addressing the actual problem of what we do about the issue in the here and the now. It's just a 'just wait until it resolves itself through populism' when it's populism that is the source of a lot of regression.

If you don't have an answer, then I'm just going to say this: It is in no way moral or even sane to expect people to just sit back and passively allow themselves to be dehumanized until white people decide that, finally, it's time to accept them as actual people. That's honestly fucked up and even that, in itself, is symptomatic of a privileged society.

And it is wrong.

And that's when we bring out the bats
 

Violet_0

Banned
it's still physical assault, even if no one feels particularly sorry for the victim. If he had been seriously injured by the attack or died, the tone of the discussion would be a different one. Or maybe even just reverse the genders

in my country, what he did would probably get him arrested as well, but that's a different matter
 

KHarvey16

Member
Okay at this point, you're not even making the effort of answering my questions, let alone providing evidence of anything, so this isn't going to go anywhere. You're giving soft theories on why things are the way they are and not addressing the actual problem of what we do about the issue in the here and the now. It's just a 'just wait until it resolves itself through populism' when it's populism that is the source of a lot of regression.

If you don't have an answer, then I'm just going to say this: It is in no way moral or even sane to expect people to just sit back and passively allow themselves to be dehumanized until white people decide that, finally, it's time to accept them as actual people. That's honestly fucked up and even that, in itself, is symptomatic of a privileged society.

And it is wrong.

You argue in bad faith. You've ignored every point I've made and continuously misrepresent my position. You argue from a place of emotion.

Do not assume or use as a counterpoint to my arguments that I want things to take a long time or prefer the way things are to the way you argue they could be. I wish there was a way to do it faster. There just isn't. You argue a bunch of things that aren't true and then suggest I'm offering no answers and simply can't handle your obviously infallible position.

I disagree with you fundamentally and I've given you plenty of examples and data to support why. So far your position is to simply pretend I didn't.
 
Disgusting. Not what the preacher said because he has a right to free speech but to the girl who illegally assaulted him with a freaking aluminum bat in the head. Could have killed the guy. Did he deserve that? Fuck no. And to the people cheering, fuck them. None of those people are real Christians.

I actually flinched at this

"That people deserve to be raped is just an opinion, man. We gotta respect differing opinions"

Fuck right off.
 

Veelk

Banned
You argue in bad faith. You've ignored every point I've made and continuously misrepresent my position. You argue from a place of emotion.

Do not assume or use as a counterpoint to my arguments that I want things to take a long time or prefer the way things are to the way you argue they could be. I wish there was a way to do it faster. There just isn't. You argue a bunch of things that aren't true and then suggest I'm offering no answers and simply can't handle your obviously infallible position.

I disagree with you fundamentally and I've given you plenty of examples and data to support why. So far your position is to simply pretend I didn't.

Hard data. Actual, physical, statical, quantifiable proof. Studies done, research researched. That's what I'm asking for. Trying to point to some social issues with the incredibly broad and generalized things like "Transgender issues used to not matter and now they do" because of "education" cannot possibly account for thousands and thousands of factors that progressed over the years to make that happen in the first place. I said you are offering soft theories on how the world works, which I'm not even saying are necessarily wrong, but those aren't actually proof anything. Things are SOOOOOOO much more complex than that that trying to dissect a singular "Why that happened" of changes to culture, especailly in more controversial stuff, is borderline farcical.

And even for soft things, you do not provide proof, just about 'education' (which itself is a term that is so broad and nebulous, encompassing literally every information point we might have consumed over the year). I've asked over and over for you to show me why a small thing, like Richard Spencer being punched into silence didn't work when, as far as I can tell, it did. If he is continuing to speak at public venues or if there was even a spike in white supremecy recruitment, I haven't seen it and you haven't shown it.

But most significantly, you continue to assert that the crux of the idea that violence against bigotry is without effect or actively harms progressive values. This is the foundation stone of your argument and you haven't addressed how this is real at all. You've been focused on 'proving' that 'education' helps instill progressive values, but that doesn't even matter because you haven't established why 'education' and 'punching bigots' have to be mutually exclusive in the first place.

I'm not arguing in bad faith or pretending you haven't shown me anything or a place of emotion or anything like that. You just straight up haven't shown me anything and proven nothing.
 

Violet_0

Banned
And thus there'd be no drive or need to perform vigilantism.

It's not a different matter at all

fair enough. Freedom of speech in the US is a complex topic that I'm not even going to touch, it's way out of my league. My point is, you should never resort to violence unless it's to prevent it
 
I actually flinched at this

"That people deserve to be raped is just an opinion, man. We gotta respect differing opinions"

Fuck right off.
Yeah, that second sentence is... rather troublesome. The premise is pretty much "if an action is legal, that action isn't disgusting." If the poster doesn't seem the problem with that premise, then I really don't know where to begin.
 
PeeweeISayWeLetHimGo_1.jpg
 

KHarvey16

Member
Hard data. Actual, physical, statical, quantifiable proof. Studies done, research researched. That's what I'm asking for. Trying to point to some social issues with the incredibly broad and generalized things like "Transgender issues used to not matter and now they do" because of "education" cannot possibly account for any number of factors that progressed over the years. I said you are offering soft theories on how the world works, which I'm not even saying are necessarily wrong, but you haven't actually provided proof of anything.

And even for soft things, you do not provide proof. I've asked over and over for you to show me why a small thing, like Richard Spencer being punched into silence didn't work when, as far as I can tell, it did. If he is continuing to speak at public venues or if there was even a spike in white supremecy recruitment, I haven't seen it and you haven't shown it.

I'm not arguing in bad faith or pretending you haven't shown me anything. You just straight up haven't shown me anything and proven nothing.

Richard Spencer going into public less has decreased racism by how much? Show me numbers and research and other data. You say you didn't notice an uptick from him being punched. Well I didn't notice a down tick from him being punched. Don't hold me to a standard you aren't prepared to abide by. If that's the road you want to go down remember it's the claim that violence is necessary that came first and bears the burden of proof to start out with.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Guy is clearly an asshole but assholes have the right to free speech as much as anyone. Using violence is always the wrong way. Nobody deserves to be physically hurt because he says something others don't like.
 
Yeah, that second sentence is... rather troublesome. The premise is pretty much "if an action is legal, that action isn't disgusting." If the poster doesn't seem the problem with that premise, then I really don't know where to begin.

Not only that, which is indeed troublesome, but it's perpetuating the idea that freedom of speech means freedom from consequences. Are the consequences justified in this scenario? Probably not. But just because we're covered under "free speech" does not mean everyone else has to stand idly by and listen.

Also free speech as a legal concept doesnt even apply here since it wasn't involving the government trying to shut him down. So really we're 0/3. One disgusting idea and two dangerous misconceptions

Guy is clearly an asshole but assholes have the right to free speech as much as anyone. Using violence is always the wrong way. Nobody deserves to be physically hurt because he says something others don't like.

Oh come on
 
Richard Spencer going into public less has decreased racism by how much? Show me numbers and research and other data. You say you didn't notice an uptick from him being punched. Well I didn't notice a down tick from him being punched. Don't hold me to a standard you aren't prepared to abide by. If that's the road you want to go down remember it's the claim that violence is necessary that came first and bears the burden of proof to start out with.

Well the man himself did say he didn't like going out in public after being punched so there is that.
 
Guy is clearly an asshole but assholes have the right to free speech as much as anyone. Using violence is always the wrong way. Nobody deserves to be physically hurt because he says something others don't like.

Yes saying women should be raped is just "saying something others don't like"
 

Veelk

Banned
Richard Spencer going into public less has decreased racism by how much? Show me numbers and research and other data. You say you didn't notice an uptick from him being punched. Well I didn't notice a down tick from him being punched. Don't hold me to a standard you aren't prepared to abide by. If that's the road you want to go down remember it's the claim that violence is necessary that came first and bears the burden of proof to start out with.

Okay, at this point I'm convinced you have no idea what the argument here is even about.

Go back. Take your time. And find me a quote in this thread where I said Richard Spencer being punched in any way decreased racism.

I'll wait.

Or, to save you some time, you won't, because that was never my claim and you're trying to pull a gotcha you can't actually capitalize on. My argument was that silencing Spencer and his ilk will be that it prevents his racism from being inflicted on people in public venues. People will not feel dehumanized and anyone on the fence will see first hand that this is not acceptable. It doesn't mean they won't become a racist, but it does make them less likely to speak out about their racism.

It's not about solving racism or whatever because that's not possible, it's about dislodging racism from it's platform. There's nothing that can be done about racists being racists or misogynists being misogynists, but you can take away their assumption that they can speak these things without consequence. You do that, and you prevent people from suffering the effects of that kind of bigotry. That's the goal. And it works.

Public shaming is an effective discouragement tool because we are communal creatures, so we value what other people think of us. I have to go to sleep now and I think this is obvious to the point of being a truism, but if you want I'll be happy to find some research paper establishing this and bring the reciepts whenever it is I wake up, if you want me to fully stack the deck against you here.
 

The Kree

Banned
Guy is clearly an asshole but assholes have the right to free speech as much as anyone. Using violence is always the wrong way. Nobody deserves to be physically hurt because he says something others don't like.

World history disagrees with you. You can't openly advocate for violence and then be surprised when violence finds you. He wasn't preaching peace and love.
 

finowns

Member
Guy is clearly an asshole but assholes have the right to free speech as much as anyone. Using violence is always the wrong way. Nobody deserves to be physically hurt because he says something others don't like.

Baseball bat to head is too much but there are clearly some physical acts that would be appropriate for this guy.
 
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