Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
So are you, both sides were wrong. Get off your own damn horse.
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Preacher w/ you deserve to be raped sign hit over head by bat wielding woman
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
So are you, both sides were wrong. Get off your own damn horse.
excelsiorlef
Member
I explained why this argument sucks a couple of pages back.
I'm just amused I called it so succinctly
Look at basically ever country in the world with hate speech laws... none of them are hellish Orwellian landscapes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Rape culture:a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.
That includes considering "you deserve to be raped" to women in a high school, by a dude who then went out to physically assault a woman, to be a mere difference of opinion
I know, just wasn't sure you were aware of the timeline.
Hierophant
Banned
When you literally cannot emphasise with anyone but people like you so you don't see any reason for people to feel threatened by telling you that you deserve to be raped
Maybe you should learn to read because I never said he should be legally assaulted with a weapon. A public demonstration can still be threatening in a way that suggests personal confrontations. He shouldn't be doing this outside a school.
Someone defending themselves against someone that is threatening to rape them is vigilantism?
Frozenprince
Banned
Psychoward
Banned
Whew, I get not agreeing with her methods but thinking that a person who hit someone (that wasn't even a serious injury) who is advocating for school girls to be raped and assaulted a woman is a piece of shit is funny.
full disclosure i agree that hitting him with a baseball bat was not the wisest idea and he should've just been arrested instead.
but really, not a threat? Just a shitty opinion?
If you go around demonstrating X and Y people should get horrifically murdered- is that just a shitty opinion too?
perhaps it failed in the definition of it inciting immediate violence.
but hey, fuckboy got arrested for assaulting a woman later on anyway. That makes the threat seem pretty legitimate to me.
now here's the problem.
This women is getting her life ruined with a felony charge. The guy is unimpeded and can go on to spread hate another day without any repercussions.
but really, not a threat? Just a shitty opinion?
If you go around demonstrating X and Y people should get horrifically murdered- is that just a shitty opinion too?
perhaps it failed in the definition of it inciting immediate violence.
but hey, fuckboy got arrested for assaulting a woman later on anyway. That makes the threat seem pretty legitimate to me.
now here's the problem.
This women is getting her life ruined with a felony charge. The guy is unimpeded and can go on to spread hate another day without any repercussions.
Night Angel
Member
The law certainly has been selectively applied, which is fucking terrible and a huge stain on our country's history and present day.
That doesn't mean I want people to take it into their own hands to create "justice" as they see fit.
Even if this dude were inciting violence, the appropriate response is to call the police unless there is an imminent threat (dude with sign... not an imminent threat).
I'm at the point that this kind of thing, inciting violence, should be met with criminal charges. Contrary to what many believe, freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything you want. If you yell "FIRE!" in a crowded room when there isn't one, it's illegal. It's illegal because it's dangerous to do so if it's not true.
Publically advocating sexual violence (again, to kids) should be considered dangerous. It should be legally considered a crime. It's not thought crime. He is free to have that vile opinion and free to express it in the confines of his own home and in private forums. In public places like a fucking school? No.
Until such a law is made, I am not going to begrudge people who handle it with the only effective response to these pieces of shit.
Publically advocating sexual violence (again, to kids) should be considered dangerous. It should be legally considered a crime. It's not thought crime. He is free to have that vile opinion and free to express it in the confines of his own home and in private forums. In public places like a fucking school? No.
Until such a law is made, I am not going to begrudge people who handle it with the only effective response to these pieces of shit.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
It's fucking funny how you ignore that he went on to assault a woman. Not an imminent threat my ass.
What is it with the defense forces always ignoring important facts?
Frozenprince
Banned
"imagine a world where you can justify violence because of beliefs or a feeling of righteousness"
Yeah, we already have that, it's called "the real world" where actions, violence and everything else is accompanied by contextual triggers that validate or invalidate it. It's why we have self defense laws, it's why we have hate crime statutes.
My agreeing and validating of this incident doesn't provide blanket acceptance of all violence against all people I don't like.
The world doesn't work that way, the mind doesn't work that way, morality doesn't work that way.
Yeah, we already have that, it's called "the real world" where actions, violence and everything else is accompanied by contextual triggers that validate or invalidate it. It's why we have self defense laws, it's why we have hate crime statutes.
My agreeing and validating of this incident doesn't provide blanket acceptance of all violence against all people I don't like.
The world doesn't work that way, the mind doesn't work that way, morality doesn't work that way.
Vermillion
Banned
Btw, I agree he should unquestionably be in prison.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Do you consider the phrase "you deserve to be murdered" to not be a threat either? And how is he not an imminent threat when he genuinely went on to later unprovoked, assault a woman at another school? How is he not an imminent threat by advocating for sexual violence against teenagers? What the actual fuck am I reading?!
Night Angel
Member
Did he assault a woman right there and then? Do you not understand the context/meaning of imminent?
Hierophant
Banned
"but words don't mean anything!!! they're just things that come out of your mouth and you should ignore it no matter what the words actually mean (btw why can't i say the n-word?)"
TestOfTide
Banned
According to the courts she didn't try to kill the preacher, so don't make up bullshit about her trying to kill the preacher.
Night Angel
Member
Context is everything, isn't it?
If some random jackass in the street is holding a sign saying that? Nah. Shouting it indiscriminately as a public demonstration? Nah.
If someone holding a knife says it? Yep. If someone says it to me, personally, not as theater? Sure.
Context makes a difference.
Considering he assaulted someone in a similar situation, yes, I would call it imminent.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
no she isn't a piece of shit, she is somebody who isn't a fucking coward against people that promote disgusting things
using a bat may be a little much, but on no fucking level is she just as bad him
Night Angel
Member
You're welcome to use the word incorrectly.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea context is everything, except that there's no nuance to the context of
A grown man is telling highschoolers specifically, not grown adults, not addressed to the teachers, but to the high schoolers specifically, that they deserve to be raped. A grown man that also unsurprisingly, later went on to assault a woman unprovoked while doing the exact same activity.
If you want to avoid violence then you aggressively need to remove people doing these sorts of things at inappropriate venues, otherwise violence ends up the only solution that will seem to work.
It's also what gets frustrating with free speech in the US, as important as it is we have chucklefucks like this who ruin it for everyone else.
It's also what gets frustrating with free speech in the US, as important as it is we have chucklefucks like this who ruin it for everyone else.
Fulminator
Member
I think having a history would make it an imminent threat,if he's done it before we can assume he would do it again. In that regard I think it would be ok to call this self defense.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
You are mansplaining to a woman, what constitute a true rape threat. Jesus dude.......
How the hell is it not inciting violence? You can argue semantically that it's not a direct threat, but this is such a clear, obvious case of inciting violence. Saying someone deserves to be met with violence is literally inciting violence. Full stop.
If someone regularly tells people they deserve to die then proceeds to assault them, yes, they are a imminent threat. If someone with such a history of doing such started telling you that you wouldnt consider it a threat despite the fact that he will in all likelihood attack you?
SolarPowered
Member
Since you brought up progressives I'll just go ahead and give my two cents. Democrats have shown us how useless they've been in the battle to shift the overton window. Republicans are now showing us they've got no problem backing up suspiciously treasonous SOBs in Washington and Montana is even trying to put someone guilty of assault on a reporter inside the house of representatives. This has been a long time coming and if younger progressives are willing to literally fight for what they think is right then I'm not going to get in their way and I'm not going to condemn either side too harshly.
Let the Richard Spencers, Milos and other alt-right assholes of the world quake in the boots. Maybe that'll make Republicans think twice about nurturing these heartless pricks all across America.
A coward who went ahead and bashed an ugly racist's head...hmmm....
Dude was asking for it.
Night Angel
Member
Ok, let's say it is. Is the punishment for inciting violence a bat to the head from a stranger?
I'm mantyping on my phone too. In a few minutes I'll be mansleeping.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
The article actually suggested it with "not a full deck". And you know damn well that a person like that would be removed from the street for further processing in Western Europe. Because obviously he did make a threat and nobody disagrees with that. But I'm here reading a brief OP, not having a full context. Also, as much as I enjoy my biblical smiting power fantasies, when it comes to reality, I really cannot support corporal violence. That includes people who should be, and are, in a jail cell.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
You attack someone with a bat, you are a piece of shit period. I don't care what they are saying.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Gotta love a poster who both mocks someone for a sophomoric post while advocating a middleground "all opinions should be heard" stance.
This is a person who pushes hate speech on children, particularly some our most vulnerable children. Treating it as simply a matter of the preacher's words is incredibly reductive to how powerful hate speech can be.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Shitty joking doesn't change the fact that you tried to explain to a woman, what a true rape threat is. No wonder you defend this dude.
Hierophant
Banned
wow, i have the same opinion but the other way around, if you spout racist shit on the street, you are a piece of shit period.
the bat thing on the other hand, i mean theres different contexts and reasons for someone to use a bat, don't write them all off you feel me
SkeptiMism
Member
To be honest, it'd be helpful if people didn't quote responses from pages back after they've elaborated and corrected their posts.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
Assuming no prior convictions, he could potentially be charged and serve 3-5 years for inciting hate, inciting sexual violence against minors, and sexual harassment of unaccompanied minors here in British Columbia, as he should. The wording on his sign is pretty clear, though, and it would be extremely difficult to prosecute him for uttering threats of violence under current legislation. 3-year probation for a minor seems technically appropriate for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
I'm baffled that his abhorrent conduct in such close proximity to a school can be considered lawful in the US.
I'm baffled that his abhorrent conduct in such close proximity to a school can be considered lawful in the US.
Whatever it is, it is not nearly as powerful as an aluminum bat to the head can be.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Firstly, the poster did not elaborate in that post.
Secondly, what elaboration is there to mocking someone?
>_> We had a Republican nominee who vicariously advocated for executing gay people
An aluminum bat to the head is a lot less powerful.
Trigonometrize.
Member
This is when I propound the story to my friends and family to see if I really am wrong or if I just stumbled into Gaf crazy town, heh. Baseball bats and heads do not go well together, you guys do know that, right? If someone slapped him or gave him a punch to the gut I'd be applauding.
Hierophant
Banned
its not only lawful but people actually are lining up to defend it! crazy country amirite
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
There is self-defense, and in this case might actually be a valid defense motive.
ideally, he should have been removed long before it got to that point.
edit: but yes, people are underestimating the potential for manslaughter here, which is very doable with a bat.
Rumblebones
Banned
Don't be ridiculous.
My first post in this thread was to mock the shithead by saying he deserved to be hit with a bat.
The guy is a piece of shit. Fuck him, hope he rots.
That being said, he wasn't threatening any individual, and hitting someone with a bat from behind when there is no imminent threat does not constitute self defence.
If it was 50 people yelling mean things versus 50 people with bats, I know where my money is going.
finowns
Member
Ya, gross as this guy is hitting someone in the head with a baseball bat is grosser.
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