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[pestul]

I wonder if this means Nintendo will try to launch the Revolution in Japan a few days ahead of the PS3. If Sony still has supply problems around that time, then Nintendo can gain the early advantage in Japan and the US (360 not counted at the moment).

It's PSP vs. DS all over again, I think.

And that's a huge problem for the PS3 vs. 360... but I don't take any stake in handheld to console comparisons.

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

Ugh, Gran Turismo sold way better than Halo. In fact, GT3 sold better than both Halo's combined.

I'm of course talking worldwide totals here. Final Fantasy X + X-2 are dead even with Halo, and FFXII is going to blow that wide open (X + XII will easily pass Halo). Furthermore, once KHII is out in all regions it could surpass it as well.

I don't understand the obsessive focus on U.S. only? No game matters in the face of the launch of a system.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

So are we supposed to believe that it was delayed because of copy protection?

Damage control indeed.

BluRay is part of it I'm sure, but I'd guess there are other things as well, such as allowing them to produce the console at a cheaper price, reworking the controller to actually be comfortable, not to mention the duelshock lawsuit issues, building SonyWorld to compete with Live, etc.

 

[dark10x]

Can't say I'm all that disappointed or suprised. I never expected a Spring launch and anyone who did was fooling themselves. At least it still seems that 2006 is a go (planning on getting both a JP and US unit, though PSP-like region encoding for games would make things easier on me).

Here's hoping the machine can deliver. Things are not necessarily going in their favor, but MS hasn't exactly delivered anything near what I had hoped for (especially in terms of framerate) and Nintendo isn't even shooting for the same caliber of hardware.

 

[mrmyth]

Why is the success of blu-ray so important to Sony? They aren't making money of the format in any way are they? Is it because the copy protection mechanisms are important for Sony Music/Pictures?

Mindshare.

Think about Sony as a company. They don't have the IT products they used to. The iPod is the new Walkman. Toshiba and Panasonic have caught them in TV quality. The best DVD players are made by Onkyo and Denon. Their home theater receivers are thought of as overpriced. While their products are thought of a quality products, the only major brand they have is the Playstation. Sony prides itself on being the innovators, and lately they've been left behind. Blu-Ray is a way to get back to the bleeding edge.
Not to mention Sony has always tried to force their proprietary formats into market standard.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

People are gonna get tired of waiting when they have two alternative, perfectly viable consoles on the market.

EXACTLY

I don't really think that most people have some sort of brand loyalty when it comes to just about anything. People loved the PSX and their PS2s, but if they see the 360 kickin ass with its games, with no PS3 in sight - does anyone here really think they are all just going to wait?

People are impatient beings. I know I am.

 

[kaching]

So Fall/Holiday PS3 launch is definite, and the rumor people have slipped in is that 2007 is a possibility for some region. Right?

Nothing is definite yet, we just have another news article saying a late 2006 launch based on unconfirmed sources. Everyone is definitely filling in whatever blanks they feel like filling in from there.

 

[J-Rzez]

Anyone truely expecting the PS3 to be launched outside of Japan in spring, I want you to know, you could get an extra tax break by filing that you're legally retarded...

I'm a huge Sony fan as my platform of first preference, but shit, even i didn't expect to swipe my debit card at EB for one till Fall here...

I'm a selfish bastard, and don't care if they don't get it in Japan till we do here in fall... too bad... I just want it for xmas... now, if it's delayed into 07, then there's trouble... not just from me... but the market...

Sony knows they'll be hurting a bit if they push back the biggest market past another xmas selling season here... MS will sell a lot more 360's this coming year than last xmas for sure if they increase production... overheating, disc scratching systems with buggy software or not... americans, we am impatient...

If Sony says what Che says, launch in Oct, and that INCLUDES the US, then that's stupendous, and i'll be happy as ever... my deepest regards to the Jp hopeful, you'll pull through...

 

[Bebpo]

It's PSP vs. DS all over again, I think.

What?

I don't think the PS3 and Rev are comparable at all...

 

[Odysseus]

WTF?

2. This only applies for Japan.

DVD playback was not only applicable to Japan. I know people that, to this day, their only DVD player is a PS2. It was a selling point initially in the US, make no mistake about it. If they can replicate the same thing with BRD, then no harm done (with the delay). Somehow I doubt the demand will be the same, however.

 

[golem]

wow. i hope there are some upgrades if it is really intended for release here next spring.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

DVD playback was not only applicable to Japan. I know people that, to this day, their only DVD player is a PS2. It was a selling point initially in the US, make no mistake about it. If they can replicate the same thing with BRD, then no harm done (with the delay). Somehow I doubt the demand will be the same, however.

It was a selling point, but not part of its massive success. Normal DVD players were cheaper in the US than Japan, and had penetrated the market to a greater degree. DVD playback was a huge sensation in Japan, and was a major part of PS2's early success (and, by extension, Dreamcast's quick decline). In America, it was a bonus feature.

And don't forget the rest of my post.

 

[pestul]

Another interesting point coming out of the B3D thread on this.. Vista launches in November too, so a lot of people may be short on change from upgrading thier PC/OS. MS tapping it from every angle. :X

Mostly a different demographic, but money is money.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Nintendo will reign supreme once again!

 

[Mejilan]

Hey Ami, why not change the thread title so that it mentions the November 2006 Japanese release time-frame?

 

[Forsete]

Another interesting point coming out of the B3D thread on this.. Vista launches in November too, so a lot of people may be short on change from upgrading thier PC/OS. MS tapping it from every angle. :X

Mostly a different demographic, but money is money.

Haha, I dont think people will be in any hurry upgrading to Vista. They'll get Vista for free* next time they buy a whole new computer.

 

[cvxfreak]

What?

I don't think the PS3 and Rev are comparable at all...

Nintendo's system will be out in two regions versus Sony's one, with the chance of shortages in that one region, the one region where Nintendo has a chance of kicking major ass.

It's not exactly the same but it's reminding me of the DS vs. PSP showdown.

People need to remember that the Revolution will be out worldwide within 12 weeks, too. I wonder if the Rev will be out in Europe before the PS3 as well.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Haha, I dont think people will be in any hurry upgrading to Vista. They'll get Vista for free* next time they buy a whole new computer.

I agree. I don't think there is going to be some mass rush to upgrade to Vista.

 

[Teddman]

WTF?

1. It wasn't the first console out of the gate.

As much as I love it, Dreamcast really doesn't directly compare because we are talking a direct correlation with the other two companies STILL MAKING CONSOLES. And of Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft, PS2 was first.

2. This only applies for Japan.

DVD playback didn't help the PS2 sell in the U.S.? Were you overseas at the time?

3. This only applies for US/Europe.

Which is what I was talking about, follow back the chain of the replies.

How did you forget presented the largest, broadest, best library? And brand familiarity built up with years of good games on PSX. These are the number 1 and 2 reasons.

Best, broadest library is something that came into play later. You're not saying backwards compatibility was a top factor, are you?

Brand familiarity is also important, but not a crucial factor (as is backwards compatibility). Witness the sudden fall of Sega and Nintendo in gens past.

No, the PS2's decisive key factors were timing to market first, DVD playback, and GTA exclusivity. None of which are at play this gen.

What you listed (software library and brandname/hype) is what Sony has left of last gen's advantages to separate itself with the PS3, not their strongest appeals early in the PS2's life.

 

[Unison]

Oh come on. 3 months difference when compared to Nintendo's launch won't really matter at all. I hope you people don't think that . . . I want Rev. to do well, but I don't think this suddenly gives Nintendo a major advantage over PS3 or anything.

No one, absolutely no one, doubts Nintendo's ability to sell a few million Revolutions at launch. It will almost certainly happen regardless of when Sony launches.

The PS3 will similarly sell a few million units at launch in each territory with ease.

The only place I see a possible 2007 PS3 launch in NA making a difference would be that it would really help the Xbox 360 out.

 

[cyberheater]

So on the one hand i'm laughing like a drain and on the other hand i'm crying on the inside cause lord only knows when the UK will get a nice cheap blueray player.

Looks like i'll have a few more months (years) to save up for it.

On a more serious note.
How is this going to affect devs/publishers. Are any likely to jump ship?

 

[The End]

Ok, so my friend (who's still waiting for approval) wrote this essay refuting monorojo's earlier post:

Post this for me:

This is great news people.

Generally, when something is considered "great news" the stock in that company and those that rely on it doesn't plummet, while the competitors' stocks move up.

PS2 is far from dead, if Sony rushed out the PS3 like MS did with X360 they would simply be wasting all of the potential PS2 still has.

I could be wrong, but PS2 has, for a while now, required designers to downgrade graphics and reduce the number of process requests demanded of the processor because its technology is terribly dated when compared to both the Xbox and the Gamecube. If by "wasting potential" you mean "limiting revenue opportunities" then you're exactly right...without a doubt more profit can be squeezed from the PS2 currently than would be possible with its successor already on the market.

If you mean potential within the technology, it peaked sometime in 2004, and all that's happened since then is programmers have come up with clever workarounds to deal with the system's limitations.

You know how I said I could be wrong? I changed my mind.

We get more time to enjoy the greatest console ever made, which still has an unbelievable lineup of upcoming games (unlike GCN or Xbox)

"More time to enjoy" the games that were already going to come out for it anyway?

How does the release of the new system take away time to enjoy those games? It's YOUR choice whether or not to give them undivided attention if there's another system on the market, not Sony's.

Also, for Sony, it means that they will make it just in time for the Holiday season! Huge sales right off the back.

Well, this is what's considered a "production delay" which implies that they're going to have, you know, production problems. What, with non-finalized hardware and such. So even if they make a November launch, that means that they're going to spend a considerable amount of time and money getting as many consoles ready in as short a period of time as possible. Likely, they'll shift consoles to the US market away from Japan, disincentivizing production of Japanese games early on. (Christmas isn't such a big deal over there.) This means less lead time into Christmas season. That means less systems sold overall. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I mean, i can't really understand how any gamers can take this as bad news. Everyone wins.

Gamers may just be disappointed at longer waits; stockholders and developers on the other hand, are not considering themselves "winners" at this point in time. In fact, any "exclusive" developer with a release contingency in their contract is probably evaluating whether to excercise it or not. I don't see how that's a good thing for PS3 gamers, but you know, maybe you do.

Or maybe you are the biggest unpaid cheerleader for Sony I have ever come across, and have no idea what you're talking about.

I bet you make excuses when your daddy hits you, too.

 

[dyls]

Is all this 'NA in Spring 2007' stuff just an assumption based on past Sony consoles?

I don't think that's fair, if it really is true that the only problem is one of liscensing. Are we talking about the Blu-ray hardware or software? Because if it is just a software issue concerning security, then there is really no reason why Sony couldn't begin manufacturing consoles based on their original launch plans, thus having enough units by November for a Japan-USA simultaneous launch.

If it's a hardware issue, I guess they're fucked.

All I know is M$ just went into overdrive in trying to get Halo 3 out this holiday season.

 

[eeyore the donkey]

chespace's post has calmed my nerves

Fall 06' NA ftw, as I always believed

 

[Ceb]

EXACTLY

I don't really think that most people have some sort of brand loyalty when it comes to just about anything. People loved the PSX and their PS2s, but if they see the 360 kickin ass with its games, with no PS3 in sight - does anyone here really think they are all just going to wait?

People are impatient beings. I know I am.

Most people should be content with the offerings of the current gen for another year. I've thought about getting a X360, but then I took a long look at the release list for this year and saw that there are maybe 1-3 games I'd consider buying. Meanwhile, the scheduled quality games for PS2/PSP/NDS this year are almost too many...

 

[AdmiralViscen]

As much as I love it, Dreamcast really doesn't directly compare because we are talking a direct correlation with the other two companies STILL MAKING CONSOLES. And of Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft, PS2 was first.

Um, no. We're talking about the circumstances surrounding PS2's launch. At that time, Dreamcast was next-gen, direct competition.

DVD playback didn't help the PS2 sell in the U.S.? Were you overseas at the time?

I didn't say it was a nonissue, I said that it wasn't as big an issue in the US as it was in Japan.

Which is what I was talking about, follow back the chain of the replies.Best, broadest library is something that came into play later. Brand familiarity is also important, but not a crucial factor (as is backwards compatibility). Witness the sudden fall of Sega and Nintendo in gens past.

Yea, but PSX's best, broadest library gave 100 million gamers to trust that PS2 would also have the best, broadest library. And development support was secured very early, even if the games weren't released for a while.

Sega and Nintendo fell because they weren't promising the best, broadest libraries. Developers were fleeing from them, not rabidly signing up for them. That's what's different between Saturn/N64, and PS2/PS3.

No, the PS2's decisive key factors were timing to market first, DVD playback, and GTA exclusivity. None of which are at play this year.

Nope. Promises of the largest library, and brand identification were the top two. It was NOT first to market in the minds of consumers at that time (Dreamcast was a reality for consumers, XBox was a laughingstock with little info released), DVD playback was not as significant as you make it out to be, and GTA was not a sensation yet (and once it was, that was still only in two territories, so it doesn't belong where you put it in the top influences).

Sony's success comes from having the biggest and best games, not from any one series. I don't know why you shoot down my statement that they had the broadest best library because it took time to develop, but then push your GTA angle. GTA was not a launch title. It took time to come out.

 

[FtsH]

Nintendo will reign supreme once again!

sony can't launch,
MS can't produce,
PC has no game,

Nintendo back to the top

 

[Stinkles]

What happened to the Crow Eating thread? I was looking forwrad to the results...

 

[Musashi Wins!]

What happened to the Crow Eating thread? I was looking forwrad to the results...

Missing console, missing threads. Notice that lately?

 

[Odysseus]

What happened to the Crow Eating thread? I was looking forwrad to the results...

It was going well until CENSORED started to CENSORED and that's when we all chuckled.

 

[Jim]

Looks like i'll have a few more months (years) to save up for it.

On a more serious note.
How is this going to affect devs/publishers. Are any likely to jump ship?

Considering that North American PS3 developers were told to shoot for a Fall target, it probably makes no difference at all.

If, as Che alluded to, the PS3 still hits Japan and North America in '06, I don't see how this is a big deal, at all. Unless you were personally planning on importing a PS3 at some insane price...

But of course, if there was nothing to complain about, this wouldn't be GAF!

 

[Chittagong]

Missing console, missing threads. Notice that lately?

not to mention missing dudes carrying boxes

 

[Animal]

You know the drill boys :lol

 

[Jive Turkey]

Man! All I did was go to sleep for a few hours and look at all the fun I've missed! No more sleep for me until this conference is over. I want to get in on the ground floor of this comedy.

 

[Teddman]

I don't know why you shoot down my statement that they had the broadest best library because it took time to develop, but then push your GTA angle. GTA was not a launch title. It took time to come out.

It came out right before Xbox and GameCube.

You feel that the Playstation brand and software library (back catalogue) were the most important initial selling points of the PS2 in the U.S, while I think that timing to market, DVD playback, and GTA are all higher on the list of importance.

I'm not going to change your mind, but I will say this: current-gen software library will be of diminished advantage for Sony this generation, as many developers (including Rockstar and GTA) have expressed a desire to release games multiplatform as opposed to exclusive to one console. Then what you have left of your two favored factors is the PlayStation brand and hype, which is not as significant as it once was, in my opinion... I really think you are seeing things more from a standpoint of Japan than the U.S.

 

[human5892]

If, as Che alluded to, the PS3 still hits Japan and North America in '06, I don't see how this is a big deal, at all. Unless you were personally planning on importaing a PS3 at some insane price...

That's the real key to this thread. If Che is right this will largely have been a pointless waste of almost nine pages now.

 

[thorns]

What about Europe?

 

[Mac the KNife]

Jeezus. Sony's inability to present anything to the public is disturbing. What a downer...

 

[Monorojo]

Xd wait wait...poeple think REv....is going to compete with PS3 now?

:lol :lol :lol

Come on now....

Sony to lose 50 million fans, Nintendo to gain 50 million fans overnight! News at 11!

DS is a success BECUASE Nintendo is successful in Handhelds, period.

Nintendo does not have the same fanbase in home consoles, not even 1/4 the fanbase.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

That's the real key to this thread. If Che is right this will largely have been a pointless waste of almost nine pages now.

Nah. Not a waste of time if it was entertaining.

Personally, I think it's kinda weird that Sony doesn't launch in NA first and Japan second because it's simply a bigger market and you would think they would want to prevent MS from getting any more of a lead on them. Japan is a non issue for them when it comes to competing with MS, so why not give it to us first? Makes sense to me.

 

[cyberheater]

Unless you were personally planning on importing a PS3 at some insane price...

I was actually. I'll be getting a JP or US PS3 cause it shares the same bluray region.

I wonder how it will affect the HD-DVD camp?

 

[human5892]

Nah. Not a waste of time if it was entertaining.

I guess...could use more Photoshops.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I guess...could use more Photoshops.

Definitely could use more photoshops for sure.

 

[pestul]

Xd wait wait...poeple think REv....is going to compete with PS3 now?

:lol :lol :lol

Come on now....

Sony to lose 50 million fans, Nintendo to gain 50 million fans overnight! News at 11!

DS is a success BECUASE Nintendo is successful in Handhelds, period.

Nintendo does not have the same fanbase in home consoles, not even 1/4 the fanbase.

I think most everyone was talking about Japan there.. and it's quite valid. You're talking about a console that will have Mario & Zelda and likely be half the price of the PS3 (and less than half the size).

 

[warthog]

:/ Good ol' PS2 will have to do some overtime. Might get a DS Lite in the mean time though.

 

[Teddman]

Xbox fans, don't get your hopes up yet.

I'm hearing Oct. 2006 launch window for PS3.

The PS3 event tonight/tomorrow will announce official release dates so we'll see then I guess.

Can Sony really be considered a reliable source for their own release dates anymore? Honest question. Just three weeks ago the official line was Spring 2006.

On the other hand, Merril Lynch/Variety/Financial Times were saying Fall 2006 then. I'll wait to hear their "official" word over Sony's. :lol

 

[gofreak]

You know the drill boys :lol

Damnit, I just thought of posting that :lol

 

[jamesinclair]

If we go by history...

Japan: November 2006
USA: March 2007
Europe: August 2007.

Poor Europe.

 

[chespace]

Sorry to fan the flames with my earlier post. I just got back from lunch.

So yeah, word through the grapevine on my end is that PS3 might hit U.S. first (in Oct) with Japan in Nov. Although this info comes from a good source, I wouldn't say it's very dependable. Nobody except a small handful of inner circle folks at Sony know right now.

So everybody chill out, and play Xbox 360 until tomorrow morning.

 

[Striek]

I think I'll wait an amazing 10hrs or so to get actually 'official' news.
I predicted Sept JPN/NA, so it wouldn't be too far off. Not making NA is pure speculation.

It would be bad for the PS3, but I still think some of you are vastly overestimating the Xbox 360 'threat'.